OzVMX Forum

Marque Remarks => Maico => Topic started by: flyingdg on February 19, 2013, 11:39:16 am

Title: Is this to much
Post by: flyingdg on February 19, 2013, 11:39:16 am
http://s751.beta.photobucket.com/user/flyingdg/media/polishedtrans002.jpg.html#/user/flyingdg/media/polishedtrans002.jpg.html?&_suid=1361233177727003489972057214086


Is this to much? Had a maico transmission and clutch polished like the big five factory teams are doing to there team race bikes. If it helps the trans shift better and last longer I think it will be worth it.
Title: Re: Is this to much
Post by: EML on February 19, 2013, 11:50:03 am
If it does all that and should also reduce drag-so why not?
Title: Re: Is this to much
Post by: jerry on February 19, 2013, 12:02:12 pm
In this case function follows form! Who cares if it shifts better it looks outstanding. J
Title: Re: Is this to much
Post by: Davey Crocket on February 19, 2013, 12:30:13 pm
It's pretty common amongst road racers.....it does work....they change gear like a hot knife through butter.
Title: Re: Is this to much
Post by: flyingdg on February 19, 2013, 01:13:07 pm
I think your right Jerry… does look good. I heard that the shifting is great. I would hand polish all the clutch parts for a easy pull, I could never do this good by hand. I’m going to build a new motor with the cut down cases with all the polished parts and the reed top end.
Title: Re: Is this to much
Post by: 09.0 on February 19, 2013, 01:48:44 pm
You will have to put a Perspex window in the cases so you can see them!
Title: Re: Is this to much
Post by: firko on February 19, 2013, 01:55:41 pm
The other day I was picking up some bling from my polisher and sitting on his bench was a Kawasaki 1000 transmission in pieces, all polished up and shiny as a new pin that he'd done for the bike shop next door to him for a historic superbike they're building for a customer. I might do a Maico trans myself and see what the difference is......

WARNING: THREAD DEVIATION.
Doug, as a separate issue, have you tried the coil spring conversion on a Maico clutch? I'm about to set up a magnum clutch for my 360 oval and want to try the Wheelsmith coil conversion I've had for yonks.
Title: Re: Is this to much
Post by: KTMaico on February 19, 2013, 03:36:55 pm
I thought that Carbon and Dry Film coatings were the go for transmission gears and bearing?

Kevin
Title: Re: Is this to much
Post by: flyingdg on February 19, 2013, 04:02:35 pm
Mark... I have never used the spring but Jeff Mullins at maico werks likes the spring. I think if you have the preload set right it would work good I had all the Belleville springs polished so there is no friction, I would hand polish all the springs on some of the clutches I have done and it helps Jeff does this polishing as a service at his shop now. It is called isotropic polishing.
Title: Re: Is this to much
Post by: EML on February 19, 2013, 04:19:12 pm
So do Maicos normally have a leaf sprung clutch instead of coils--that's a bit old fashioned  :D
Title: Re: Is this to much
Post by: firko on February 19, 2013, 04:36:09 pm
Quote
So do Maicos normally have a leaf sprung clutch instead of coils--that's a bit old fashioned 
No wonder you need training wheels on your bike ya cheeky prick ;D.
Title: Re: Is this to much
Post by: Zakk on February 19, 2013, 10:44:03 pm
polishing the gears and shafts will remove any surface inperfections, plus expose any small cracks or chips. also as said, oil wont cling as well to a polished surface so there'll be a smaller % HP loss due to drag.

oh, and plus it looks better too  ;) i remember seeing a clear window clutchcover kit for early GSXR's to give the bike that 'dry clutch look'...
Title: Re: Is this to much
Post by: ola_martin on February 19, 2013, 11:26:49 pm
So do Maicos normally have a leaf sprung clutch instead of coils--that's a bit old fashioned  :D

Wouldn't say so, 2013 1/2 KTM SXF:
(http://www.motocrossactionmag.com/Uploads/Public/Images/...AUG%2012/FEDDSClutch.jpg)
A special Ryan Dungey-developed 280 psi Belleville washer will come stock in the Factory Edition.
Title: Re: Is this to much
Post by: flyingdg on February 20, 2013, 03:48:01 am
So maico was ahead of there time?
Title: Re: Is this to much
Post by: firko on February 20, 2013, 10:38:51 am
Does anyone know of a company that does Isotropic polishing here in Oz?

 http://www.bvproducts.com.au/superfinishing (http://www.bvproducts.com.au/superfinishing)
Title: Re: Is this to much
Post by: Canam370 on February 20, 2013, 10:40:54 am
What sort of isotrope do you need polished Firko? ::) :)
Title: Re: Is this to much
Post by: Montynut on February 21, 2013, 11:54:32 am
What flavour ;D isopope do you need polished Firko? :)

 :P ;D
Title: Re: Is this to much
Post by: Nathan S on February 21, 2013, 01:48:49 pm
Does anyone know of a company that does Isotropic polishing here in Oz?

 http://www.bvproducts.com.au/superfinishing (http://www.bvproducts.com.au/superfinishing)

http://xtremerotaries.com/service-pages/isotropic-superfinishing.htm

I've never used them, but they make a lot of very high-end products - real strawberries to swine stuff, really... [insert Maico joke here]
Title: Re: Is this to much
Post by: FritzG on November 02, 2013, 04:04:20 pm
The other day I was picking up some bling from my polisher and sitting on his bench was a Kawasaki 1000 transmission in pieces, all polished up and shiny as a new pin that he'd done for the bike shop next door to him for a historic superbike they're building for a customer. I might do a Maico trans myself and see what the difference is......

WARNING: THREAD DEVIATION.
Doug, as a separate issue, have you tried the coil spring conversion on a Maico clutch? I'm about to set up a magnum clutch for my 360 oval and want to try the Wheelsmith coil conversion I've had for yonks.

Hi Mark,

I tried the coil spring in my 74, 440 and didn't like it, started having strange clutch problems after install. If you think about how a coil spring is made it is going to compress unevenly due to the way the coils are ground and finished flat on both ends of the spring. The belville washers are going to compress straight and true. I went back with the standard set up and my clutch works fine. It has also been my experience that there are some poorly made made belville washers as well. I have pulled the clutches on Doug's (flying DG) Maico's and this is the guy to listen to.

Fritz
Title: Re: Is this to much
Post by: flyingdg on November 03, 2013, 12:43:34 pm
Fritz....I've been thinking about this washer verses spring setup for a while now and I would like to take a maico clutch to a guy I know that is one of the best spring designers in the US and have him look at the setup to see what he thinks. All the springs on the market are a copy of a copy and who knows if the first one was made correct. The guy that I'm talking about is the one that designed the new springs to fix the Hodaka shifting problem that no one could fix for the last 50 years. There has been a lot of spring kits made to fix the hodaka shifting but at best it was a band aid fix till now. That could be the same thing with the maico clutch spring. If he got them to work as good or better that the maico washers you would then have to overcome  all the negative feedback that is out there now on the coil spring just to sell them. DG
Title: Re: Is this to much
Post by: KTM47 on November 03, 2013, 01:28:54 pm
I tried the so called wheelsmith spring on my 490. It didn't work properly. It was like the coils were binding up and running out of movement. I have also seen a post saying that when fitting the coil spring you should leave the locking plate out, just use locktite. That makes sense the extra 1.5 mm might just make a difference. I haven't tried it yet, but polishing everything does also seem like something worth considering.
Title: Re: Is this to much
Post by: flyingdg on November 03, 2013, 01:45:34 pm
I have some cut away clutch covers that I can put on the motors I'm working on just to see how the clutch is working. I will take all that down to him just so he can see what were up against. When you pull in the clutch that 1.5mm is about all the pin moves to disengage  the clutch. That would mean the spring was already coil binding. DG
Title: Re: Is this to much
Post by: FritzG on November 04, 2013, 04:31:58 am
Modern clutches use the coil springs in sets of 5 or 6 so the coil problem is negated. If you look at the overall size of the Maico clutch compared to modern bikes it is very small and therefore has to be set up just right with good plates and springs. I have a bunch (over 100) Maico Belleville clutch washers, some are thinner than others, some have more "cup" than others. I think over the years as the springs have been reverse engineered they have been slightly incorrect on dimensions and/or heat treat.

It will be interesting to see what the spring guy has to say. Interesting though that KTM has gone to a Belleville style clutch spring????

Fritz
Title: Re: Is this to much
Post by: flyingdg on November 04, 2013, 06:07:21 am
Fritz...he also makes Belleville type springs. So I think he can give us the pros and cons of what one to use. DG
Title: Re: Is this to much
Post by: flyingdg on November 19, 2013, 06:52:36 am
I've been working with the spring company on the coil spring and I should have five sample springs done this week to do some testing with. I showed them some of the old coil spring I had, some new and some used and it looks like they where made from the wrong metal that can't take the heat of the clutch. They also think they weren't pre sacked. So that is probably why they work for a short time then start to slip. One more thing it's going to take three different springs for all the spring stack's that was run in the maico's. There would be one for the big clutch 20 springs single's ()()()() and then one for the AW 20 spring double stack (())(())(()) and the magnum 18 spring double stack. I'm only having them make the magnum spring as of now.