OzVMX Forum

Clubroom => Tech Talk => Topic started by: Dono113 on February 11, 2013, 11:21:25 am

Title: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: Dono113 on February 11, 2013, 11:21:25 am
Sitting in the garage yesterday going over a few pic's of bikes I've owned and I came across my old RZ250 with a 350 top end, man this thing was quick little 2 smoker. Then the thought popped in about using those motors in  dirt track anyone done this swap or contemplated??? Would the RG250/500 work too if you could go down that route
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: Lozza on February 11, 2013, 05:54:28 pm
Have you got a RG5 motor spare? I dunno if the 350 would be any good for dirt track, but with the obscenely cheap stroker cranks and a Athena kit to take you out to 421cc(about 75 peaky HP) it would be a lot of fun trying
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: SON on February 11, 2013, 06:37:36 pm
RD/RZ 350/375/420 brilliant on Dirttrack. I am currently building two.
RG250 /500 not so good, I have had several of both and have plenty of experience with the 500 tuning even in Formula 500 Speedcars, Tony Prior won several OZ Titles powered by them.
Lozza please build one, I would be happy to help,
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: Lozza on February 11, 2013, 07:34:06 pm
Where are all the RG500 bottom ends then?  ;D
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: SON on February 11, 2013, 08:08:21 pm
Metros or Steve L for an ex Japan RG400 bottom end
New 500 top end or worn 500 top end and big bore it to 680,
that will make it mental,
Good Luck getting someone to ride it
I think Gilesy would be too sensible,
maybe Willis or Danial Stauffer
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: Lozza on February 11, 2013, 10:28:22 pm
Thanks but I'll go with my Japanese contacts. TZR 3xv cylinders over RGV is the latest option we are looking into. The standard RG cylinder is well mid 80's technology.
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: SON on February 11, 2013, 11:39:53 pm
For what purpose ?
Or for what chassis ?
I have a RS250 waiting for horsepower
livo wants to use his new tig.
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: ChrisACT on February 11, 2013, 11:48:20 pm
Do it, already!  What could possibly go wrong?
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: Lozza on February 11, 2013, 11:59:46 pm
Christ no keep Glen away from AC, take it down to the Tig Man  ;D   RGV/RS or even the RG frame (with the German shock kit) work a treat , RGV is a bit tight though. Want to go either P6 or Pre 95 PCRA.
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: SON on February 12, 2013, 12:08:33 am
I still have the Schwantz pipes, Carbon cans and the AP Carbon brakes from my first Lucky Strike Replica from 92.
Seat, Fairings and a few other bits,
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: Lozza on February 12, 2013, 07:44:37 pm
Lets make some moulds off the fairings? ;D
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: SON on February 12, 2013, 08:05:18 pm
Mario made the moulds 20 years ago,
I have them somewhere,
The bike from Streetbike mag is on the website,
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: SON on February 12, 2013, 08:30:34 pm
better not hijack the thread,
I have two Flattrackers with Yamaha twin engines
1 has an air cooled bottom end with a TZ750 cylinder so 375cc a genuine little brother to the most famous of all Flattrackers,
the other is RZ bored and stroked to 420, that is going into a DT200 chassis moded by another forum member,
I am building it to frighten people at the Flattrack Nats and the Troy Bayliss Classic
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: Dono113 on February 13, 2013, 10:56:34 am
A couple of RD400 just popped up on ebay
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/YAMAHA-RD-400-CLASSIC-BIKE-PROJECT-RACER-/121066086736?pt=AU_Motorcycles&hash=item1c3019e150
And hijack away my good man ;D it's enlightening to hear people's thoughts
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: firko on February 13, 2013, 11:08:28 am
                                                            (http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Yamahatwindirttracker_zpsbfab59a6.jpg)
                                                               
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: steve234 on February 13, 2013, 11:26:37 am
That's a tough looking rig firko, I'm getting arm pump just looking at it!  :D
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: SON on February 13, 2013, 05:58:28 pm
I did one 15 years ago into a Suzuki LT250R with a single carb and a A Graham Bell / Dennis Foran 2 into 1 pipe,
Brilliant, made the mistake of selling to a friend and it was stolen, never to be seen again,
Pretty hard to beat a powerful, multi cylinder 2 stroke on the pipe,
All Flattrack Fans will love these bikes,
I have had the pleasure of seeing them and the big brother TZ750 in action,
Unbelievable is an understatement,
PS Firko you should see the pipes of that bike you posted,
mine will be similar to the Tom Horton #55 bike
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: Curly3 on February 13, 2013, 06:06:22 pm
Dunno about arm pump Steve234 but freckle clench definitely.
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: firko on February 13, 2013, 09:58:17 pm
Quote
PS Firko you should see the pipes of that bike you posted,
mine will be similar to the Tom Horton #55 bike  

Here's Horton's Trackmaster Suzuki in Dan Rouits Museum in Fresno
                                                                    (http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/TrackmasterSuzuki55_zps78616672.jpg)
                                                                      (http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/trackhorton_zps0e9f1fe6.jpg)
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: firko on February 13, 2013, 10:17:56 pm
How's this gem...Trackmaster T500 Suzuki with what appears to be stainless steel pipes.
                                                            (http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/trackmastersuzy500_zpsd54926a9.jpg)
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: SON on February 13, 2013, 10:25:14 pm
I was meaning Toms Yamaha, which is better looking than the Ex KR Snr, Askland and Brelsford bike that I have,
I also have a Star Racer to suit the T500 and all the bits to build it, just not the time,
Finishing the Flattrackers is my priority, since I believe this is their year,
I plan to use RH250 type pipes just like the Greens T500 Tracker.
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: Dono113 on February 14, 2013, 10:58:41 am
I'm starting to droll, Cheney sale a early frame for the RZ 250/350 twin for 1650....
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: steve234 on February 14, 2013, 11:17:32 am
Dunno about arm pump Steve234 but freckle clench definitely.

Classic!
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: firko on February 14, 2013, 11:44:08 am
Those who thought that Kenny was the only one brave silly enough to race a TZ750, here's Tom Horton's Champion framed sphincter tightener.
                                                                (http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/TZTom_zps5f84afaf.jpg)
                                                                    http://www.vft.org/ForSaleWanted/TZ750/TZ750.html (http://www.vft.org/ForSaleWanted/TZ750/TZ750.html)
and Mark Seigfrieds similar bike (or possibly the same bike in an earlier guise)
                                                                              (http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/tz750blue_zpsbd087049.jpg)
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: cyclegod on February 14, 2013, 11:45:28 am
Why just a twin when there are more options.... ;) ;D

http://mattoonmachine.com/Billet_Cases.html
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: firko on February 14, 2013, 12:03:34 pm
How's this for a well finished little Champion RD350?
                                                                      (http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/11Nov29ChampionYamahaRD_zpsf9541d74.jpg)
                                                                      (http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/09sep18championrd350_zpsd8c7dd3a.jpg)
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: tony27 on February 14, 2013, 12:11:09 pm
Are those tz750s modern replicas/tributes to Kenny's legendary bike that are now okay to use in vintage meets or did a few people build their own before they got banned?
Would love to see & hear 1 in action, would be worth another trip to the states just for that
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: firko on February 14, 2013, 12:14:07 pm
http://www.bikeboneyard.com/yamaha%20rd-350%20flattracker.html  (http://www.bikeboneyard.com/yamaha%20rd-350%20flattracker.html)
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: firko on February 14, 2013, 12:53:08 pm
                                                                                (http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/RIH2012-0308_zps3c94a6ca.jpg)
                                                                                            (http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/RIH2012-0309_zpsebe6585c.jpg)
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: OverTheHill on February 14, 2013, 01:31:19 pm
just wondering why i can't see any pics on this topic [& others too] just the space where it should be [teasing!!] is the problem my end or did they simply fail to load--no problem, but other topic show pics ok, but in saying that--those ones might have some blanks in amongst the good ones as well. Thanks in advance [pinch the kids 'Apple' mac computer haha]
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: firko on February 14, 2013, 01:54:29 pm
It must be something on your end Morley, the pics are up OK on the thread.
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: SON on February 14, 2013, 03:19:52 pm
My Ex KR Frame is an original Schwerma CHampion, that came to me via Rod Lake,
I might get GMC to copy it before I build this bike,
if there is any takers or Geoff wants to do it??
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: Dono113 on February 15, 2013, 09:02:19 am
Locally built by GMC sounds good Sonny, do think Geoff would have a go, could be a good little earner ;)
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: firko on February 15, 2013, 10:16:38 am
I was going to ask Geoff if he'd like my or Alans spare Trackmasters to jig up for. The reason the Trackmaster is a good starting point for a generic flat track frame is that most British and Japanese twins (and singles) fit right in, the only differences being engine mounts/plates.
Basils had Alans #0001 Trackmaster A70 BSA frame to make a jig up for years but as far as we know he hasn't even touched it. We'll be heading up there fairly soon to get it back before it's lost forever.
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: OverTheHill on February 15, 2013, 12:34:42 pm
pictures come up ok on my worse computer Firko, can't figure that one but never mind--kids will fix it!!
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: OverTheHill on February 15, 2013, 12:45:14 pm
Not really to do with dirt track but [nearly got running] built an air cooled RD350 once with a 360 degree crank [if that sounds right]--as a twin-single]. Made it like that partly so i could fire a twin lead coil or two single coils off one set of points but shelved it [sold it for bits] as was told it'd vibrate bad. Never got to find out but should have gone to 90 degrees & sorted ignition somehow. Was in an RGV250 frame--yet another failed [unproven] project. Gotta have a project!!
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: steve234 on February 15, 2013, 02:46:35 pm
Trackmaster style framer would be great like as firko says you can put anything in them and they look sweet.  My favourite framer is the knight.
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: Tim754 on February 15, 2013, 08:44:54 pm
Firko  is the last set you posted an early YDS 250 type Yam? Looks like an old piston port electric start one I had moons ago.  Looks pre date the R5 / DS7 era engines to me .
 Bet those unsilenced twin left hand exit chambers would wail and scream.... Cheers Tim754
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: SON on February 15, 2013, 10:46:40 pm
Yes Trackmasters are a great base for several reasons
1st they work right so anyone can ride one,
2nd almost anything fits in
3rd the big backbone can be adapted for oil
.
As I said in a previous post I have a real Ray Hensley Trackmaster for the XS650 in pieces so that it can be copied .
To me John Kozinski's Wood Rotax would be the best framer for any track in OZ.
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: firko on February 15, 2013, 11:35:33 pm
Quote
To me John Kozinski's Wood Rotax would be the best framer for any track in OZ.

That bike appeals to me in so many different ways...it's trick as shit, it's meticulously prepared, and it looks sensational. Plus the Kocinski/Wood pairing adds a lot of class to the deal.                       
                                                          (http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/2-1_zps4a285ced.jpg)
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: Mick D on February 15, 2013, 11:46:50 pm
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/2-1_zps20ee46e9.jpg?t=1360932618)
Gee a moment that captures a presentation of creation is my definition of art.

Art to me is also something i will never bore of

If you had all of the front wheel in that snap on one of my walls I could drool over it for life

Pure escapism if such a word does or were to exist
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: Iain Cameron on February 15, 2013, 11:48:03 pm
You guys are making me think about this flat track idea . mmmmm Geoff I would buy one of those frames if you end up making them . Iain
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: Andrew L on February 16, 2013, 12:22:54 am
Im gettin the idea's going as well i have access to an rd400 motor under the old boys house
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: Dono113 on February 16, 2013, 10:51:51 pm
I've planted the seed, now lets see what blooms ;D
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: SON on February 16, 2013, 11:07:45 pm
The frame is great it will take all the early Aircooleds,
All the TZs and the LCs/RZeds or even Banshee Quads,
People will pay good money to hear them sing,
Same with the Harley's
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: yamaico on February 17, 2013, 08:44:50 pm
(http://i1258.photobucket.com/albums/ii534/yamaico/DSC00654_zps7666bee5.jpg)
I'm ready to start. Picked up an RD350 for free. Pull the head angle in, lengthen the swing arm, get the weight bias right, cut off all the excess frame tubes and brackets. Motor shouldn't need too much - good set of pipes, some decent reeds, good ignition and a bit of porting should see enough horsepower to start with.
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: Lozza on February 17, 2013, 09:28:53 pm
Dare you to keep those bars. Always on the look out for air cooled RD cranks $$ paid.
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: Blowkat on February 17, 2013, 09:47:50 pm
After reading this post , It was something i thought about 20yrs ago, when i came across this, Yamaha TDR 250 . I think they released them in Japan and france. Would be good to have ago at one .
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: SON on February 17, 2013, 10:15:42 pm
Dare you to keep those bars. Always on the look out for air cooled RD cranks $$ paid.
What do you do with them?
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: SON on February 17, 2013, 10:18:59 pm
After reading this post , It was something i thought about 20yrs ago, when i came across this, Yamaha TDR 250 . I think they released them in Japan and france. Would be good to have ago at one .
google the YouTube Banshee powered Dirtbike or Google Images the Banshee powered YZ.
Title: Re: RD/RZ 250-350 motor Used in dirt track
Post by: OverTheHill on February 18, 2013, 02:58:16 pm
Sold TDR250's new where i worked [well i fixed them but don't recall the couple we sold giving any problems as such] for some silly reason the look of them didn't do much for me back then but of course now i want one 'don't i', just for general local road use. Ours by memory were yellow & black [or something similar] Had a couple of RD350's many years ago that i picked up cheap out in the sticks [nz this is]& looked in similar nick to the one above. Was fun getting them going & up to speed [& they 'did' go well too] Had an R5 before that [insurance write off] good old girl & went like hell but in a different more torquee piston port way [& 5 speed]. Remember my brother in law using it for a bit & the slides stuck open as he left our shop & hooked into a wheelie up to the intersection, [which was compulsory!!], slides stuck open & went through the intersection vertical & saved it i might add. Sorry--carry on.