OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Competition => Topic started by: SON on January 21, 2013, 08:06:35 pm
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OLD SCHOOL TWINS
while the class is called twins it is open to all multi cylinder machines, the more exotic the better,
Hopefully enough numbers to separate the racers from the clubmen,
Open to all Aircooled multi cylinder machines of any Capacity or Watercooled multi cylinder machines where the engine was manufactured prior to 1990.
Machines can include,
Harley Davidson
Triumph 500, 650 and 750.
Yamaha XS650, 750, TZ/RD 350 and 400
BSA 650 Lightning
Norton Commando 750 and 850
Weslake 850
SUZUKI T500 and GT550/750 Triples
Honda CB350/400/450/500/600/650/750
Kawasaki 750 Twin and the Triples
Benelli / Laverda / MotoGuzzi.
We are still formulating rules and are listening,
The more the merrier,
Aftermarket framed Trackers is what we are looking for, but modified stock frames are eligible
The above list is just suggestions
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Yeeee bloody Haaaaa, bring it on.
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I accidentally left out Ducati, but the guidelines are obvious just like Harley,
I have a list of about 15 competitors already,
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i have a staracer tt500 can i use that its a gen flattrack race bike
jim
also have a champion cr250 but its not the same 4t
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Turn it into an inline twin Jim, that'll pull the arms.
I would think that once the Twins were up and running it would be a natural progression to include a big singles class.
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Arrrrr what a superb class!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D Tim754. Any class room for twin/multi cylinder machines that have three wheels and carry a passenger...sorry had to ask ;)
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i do have a twin but need the frame to be fixed first slidie ????
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Singles will be covered in other classes,
1/.ProLites
2/. ProOpens
3/. Big Singles
4/. Old School Twins
5/. Big Twins
Big Sponsors Big Prizemoney
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3/ BIG SINGLES
Open to ALL Single cylinder machines over 300cc. Chassis is also Open.
Most will be 450cc but machines like the Honda CR500, Husky 610, Husaberg 600 or KTM 690 are most welcome.
I don't think the Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki or Yamaha 600/650/660 singles would be competitive, but I am happy to be proved wrong.
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What track layouts are to be used Son, proper oval racing or dirt track tracks with S bends or both? Because I've got a couple of pre 75 2 stroke framers, my Hindall RT2MX and DT1 Cycle Factory bikes (and my rigid framed KR250 Maico), I'd love for them to be included somewhere in the concept. There are a number of bikes like mine out there, including a lot of Astros, in fact a few forum members own or are building two stroke 250 or 350 framers.
Have you talked tp Edgar Phipps? He owns a genuine Shell Thuett framed OW79 works 750 Yamaha formerly ridden by Eddie Lawson. I'm sure he's love the idea of chucking a few skids on it amongst like minded racers. There'll be a lot of proper flat trackers at HBBB at Easter so it'd be a great place to do some recruiting. It'd be pretty doubtful that my big twin bikes will be ready to race this year because of other projects being on the production line but I'd like to think that they'll be up and running for next season.
Here'sa couple of bikes from Broadford in 2011 and Vern Graysons A65 BSA and the almost identical sister bike to Edgars ex Eddie Lawson Shell.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/frankandbonanza155.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/frankandbonanza235.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/ft3.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/020ShellYamaha-8e_9175_zpsed41c4b1.jpg)
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BIG TWINS
Harley Davidson
XR750, 883, 1100 & 1200 Sportster / Buell or V Rod1000
Honda
VTR1000, Transalp/Shadow 600,650,700, 750 or 1000
Suzuki
SV SFV or DL650, TL SV or DL1000.
Yamaha
XS 650, TDM or TRX 750, 850 or 900.
Kawasaki 650,
Hyosung 650,
CF Moto 650
BMW 800
Husqvarna 900
Triumph 800 or 900 or Triples?
DUCATI anything over 550cc
APRILIA anything over 550cc
Any other suggestions???
While the Class is called Big Twins it is open to 3 or 4 cylinder machines of over 550ccs as well but the high horsepower and light flywheel weight of these machines will make traction difficult,
Again I am happy to be proved wrong
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Big Singles Class.....Jonesy's ATK 604
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/FT2.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/FT1.jpg)
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OLD SCHOOL SINGLES
We obviously will have a vintage singles class,
Astros, Champions, Redlines Trackmasters,
I want to see them all, thats why I am letting this out so far in advance,
Just not sure how to get them all in and have competitive racing
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What to do with TT500s and XR500s ?
Not sure where to file them
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What to do with TT500s and XR500s ?
Not sure where to file them
I'd bung 'em in with the Old School Singles along with Rotax and BSA unit construction single powered bikes.
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Modern Classes will be run like the Original SUPERBIKERS at Carlsbad
Heats according to categories,
Dirtrackers
Roadracers
Speedway
Enduro
Motocrossers
Starts like AMA Flattrack
6 on pole
6 on 2nd
6 on 3rd
2 from LCQ on 4th
At Barleigh Ranch completely recontoured track resurfaced,
Twins around the outside, Longtrack at 680metres
Singles through the right hander
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CONTEMPLATING Removal of Front brakes in all classes,
so they learn to back them in !!!!
Airfence onto the main straight .
In my opinion a good Wood Rotax would be unbeatable around any of these tracks
except for Longtrackers
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Can you get to work on Barleigh Ranch before the start of this season of Hunter club rounds?
PLEASE ;D
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Missed out on the best engine for the twin class.
$10.00 to whoever can tell me what it is. :D
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Missed out on the best engine for the twin class.
$10.00 to whoever can tell me what it is.
XR750 Harley Davidson or 850 Nourish Weslake twin or lets not forget the magnificent Benelli Tornado 650 ;)
Pay the 10 bucks directly into my paypal a/c please Vaughn ;D
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I think the best engine is the Kawasaki ER 650 and the CF Moto copy
Peter Kirkness father of Mick is just finishing the first one for me now,
followed by the Aprilia 550, Suzuki DL650 and Hyosung 650 most of these can be had as write offs on the cheap,
I will start on Barleigh Ranch after the 1st round of MX Nats in April,
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In my opinion a good Wood Rotax would be unbeatable around any of these tracks
except for Longtrackers
I have access to a Woods spec Rotax engine with a close ratio box (tall first, rest are tight) which may be for sale ::)
PM if interested.
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Firko, they were all listed above, so no cigar big fella!
We are talking pre90 are we not?
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I've been thinking about the classing system for this sport and I reckon it'd be wise to keep it as simple as possible first up. Once we see more people entering the sport we might be able to spread the classes out a bit. Here's my 5c worth for a simplified classing to get the ball rolling.
*OLD SCHOOL TWINS:
Open to all American style flat track bikes using Champion, Trackmaster, Redline or similar aftermarket frames or stock frames modified to suit. Twin Shock conventional rear suspension and 35mm forks maximum.
Engines:
*Harley Davidson XR750 and pre Evo up to 1000cc.
*Triumph 750,650 and 500. Meriden built only, no second generation late Triumphs.
*All BSA, Norton, AMC, Royal Enfield, Ariel, Vincent and similar production based engines.
*All Yamaha XS650, TX 750
*Kawasaki W1 650, H1 & H2 triples
*Honda CB 750 (SOHC) CB450
*Suzuki Cobra 500, GT750, GT550
*Benelli Tornado 650 and other Italian engines at the discretion of organisers. (I'm a bit short on knowledge of 70's Italians)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/ron_wood_norton_zpsf8273c9d.jpg)
MODERN TWINS:
Similar frame specs to above but opened to newer designs made specifically for flat track like Knight, Cheney (Jerry, not Eric and others. Any suspension combos allowed.
* All modern Japanese, Chinese, Korean or European twin cylinder engines allowed up to 750cc. Some triples or engines bigger than 750cc at the organisers discretion.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/aai_zps073be069.jpg)
OLD SCHOOL SINGLE.
Same frame regulations as Old Scool Twins.
Engines:All pre 90 Japanese singles such as TT 500 & 600 Yamaha, XL/XR Honda 500/600, BSA Unit Singles, Rotax, Suzuki DR 500/650 and like engines.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/TT500ebay_zps2c89aad3.jpg)
MODERN SINGLE:
Same frame specs as Modern Twin.
All post 1990 single cylinder engines over 500 cc (to exclude the modern 450's which have their own class )
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/flat-track-cj-rotax_zps29432cb4.jpg)
OLD SCHOOL TWO STROKE :
Same frame specs as Old School Twins.
All pre 80 two stroke motocross singles in 250 and 500 capacities and twins up to 350cc.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Harley-Davidson-MX250-Flat-Track-Racer-3_zps40350032.jpg)
At first some of these classes may have to be combined to make for full fields but I'm confident that after a couple of years all classes could front full grids.
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Missed out on the best engine for the twin class.
$10.00 to whoever can tell me what it is. :D
chain drive XV1000.... :D
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As much as I love these baby's and I'm looking forward to watching and maybe even having a ride myself.
There is a part of me that is dissapointed that it's all very American and the Old Skool OZ Dirttracker will fade off into the sunset.
Maybe a class for old OZ Short Circuit bikes can be squeezed in there somewhere and I'm not talking Sliders, although that's another story, I'm talking Duplex framed Brittish engined bikes from the 50's & 60's.
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What about big oil burners 80 - 90 in the old school singles ??? ;)
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Way too much pollution, piss em off totally I reckon, apart from your T500 and my T250 of course.
Happy new year Darren. ;D
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While I'm on a roll.
Personally I think the best way to make it work is to spread it out around Syd to start with.
Maybe something like Raymond Terrace, Nepean & Canberra.
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Yay,RT, Nepean and Canberra !! That'd be the go. What about Kurt on his framer Bonnie at the Nats ? imagine how he would have gone round the Longtrack at Canberra.
BTW, 23rd/24th Feb, Longtrack Challenge at Canberra, Darylene Austin or ACTMCC website for more info.
Might hafta go lookin' for an XT 550 4 valve motor
Dinosaur class Slides , anything, as long as it's really old.
Foss
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Pre60 or 65 anything goes maybe?
I do know that Ian Burkett is working on an absolute Gem for something like that, aren't you Ian? :P
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get off the computer and fix my bsa duplex frame then there will be a 60s old school dirttracker
jim
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Way too much pollution, piss em off totally I reckon, apart from your T500 and my T250 of course.
Happy new year Darren. ;D
Gotta allow something for us lazy racers ;D
Never say the P word Steve :P
I hear they have a "SMOKELESS OIL' now
Happy New year to you as Well
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Yeah alright Jimbo, I heard you the TENTH time.
I also heard that new oil was from a company call " LEAN P/L " Darren.
Sound's dodgy to me.
Anyway, back on topic please.
P.S. I did tell you Jim it'd be ready for P/U at 7am today but you came up with some lame excuse about working nights and blah blah and the wife's birthday, blah blah.
Get your priority's right.
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Another question, who still has the nuts to ride them??
The answer to the $10 question was Suzuki GR650.
Same config as Triumph/Yamaha/Norton et al but has TSCC and dual mass flywheel, splash cooled pistons etc...etc... and is 10kgs lighter than the rest.
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GR might have 4V and TSCC and if you google image search GR or Tempter and there is a few examples shown, but if they were quick we would already know that.
Make a good Old Schooler with an easily modified stock frame very Trackmaster backbone,
As to 2 Strokes they are very welcome as my T500 framer and my Ex KR Snr / Ex Skip Askland TZ 350 Schwerma Champion will make things interesting especially in the hands of an ex OZ Champion.
One of the big benefits of the Troy Bayliss Classic is sending the Stars back to where they learnt their trade.
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What makes the GR650 so wonderful? I've never taken any notice of them before, like Son aludes to, if they were that great surely we'd have seen them being used for something other than riding to work cheaply. They don't seem to be much of a bargain on eBay either http://www.ebay.com/itm/1983-83-SUZUKI-GR650-TEMPTER-ENGINE-MOTOR-was-running-/221139763645?hash=item337cf501bd&item=221139763645&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1983-83-SUZUKI-GR650-TEMPTER-ENGINE-MOTOR-was-running-/221139763645?hash=item337cf501bd&item=221139763645&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/blok2-a_zpsac9f8ed3.jpg)
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SON...Is Basil still making replica Redline (and other) frames up in Kurri Kurri or wherever he is? He built Jonesy's Redline Nourish and I'm sure many more and I'd like to talk to him about the possibility of building one for me.
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I have Basils number somewhere,
I thought he was out Millfield way
Most of the guys have been busy making Mining stuff
And Money,
over the last 6 months (Mining Tax) the mines have backed off heaps so foreign orders like frames and parts can happen again,
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Isn't the GR650 the engine of choice in Japanese Speedway?
Should be plenty of go fast bits available.
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Old School potential nominations so far
XR750 twin shock
XR750 twin shock with 1000 Sporty engine
Several XS 650/750/880
T500
TZ350
Godden
Weslake
Triumph
.
.
New School
Mule Buell 1200
Sporty 883
TL1000 Supertracker
DL1000 Supertracker
XR750 x 2
SV650
Hyo GT650
Kawa 650
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We have a sidecar team up here that run one and they are uncatchable-even by a 20yr old kid on a big bore 270 degree Yamaha. It also blew Walters GRM off !!
It is way lighter and has more HP std than any of them-a very good start. They acn be tricked right up and are strong. Only downside ( for sidecar cross ) they have a deep sump but that can be fixed. At Echo Valley they were leading the class when they holed the sump.
Not many were made and again not many were raced even in the US ( so not too many hop-up bits) but they are the goods.
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Here's another potential starter, a beut time capsule Trackmaster A70 BSA. Jack Stevens and Alan Jones chucked some laps on it for the owner at HBBB in 2011, both reporting that despite a dicky ARD mag and being badly jetted, it went pretty damn well. Sorry for the dicky photo.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/frankandbonanza169.jpg)
The original Gene Hartline Trackmaster Benelli that I'm slowly replicating. Gene had some financial and engineering help from the factory but it still wasn't as competitive as it should have been. The engine was basically stock with some head and cam work by CR Axtel. It even ran the stock square slide Del'Orto carbies. This bike lived in a private collection in Melbourne for 15 years before Gene bought it back a couple of years ago.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Benelli.jpg)
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For the guys with Vintage Trackers that don't want to Race it for whatever reason, I will put on some Free Demonstration laps,
NO RACING just letting them be seen and heard and smelt,
That said I will be happy to extend this offer to old Sliders as well, especially 84S JAPs,
I will even allow old owners to ride them in the Demos and Young sponsored Pilots to Race them.
Also spoke to Todd Hughes from MX Central / Barleigh Ranch about the track prep, that will happen mid June.
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GR650 for awhile choice of the Aussie Armed Services....oh dear.... 8)
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here's 2 cool old flattrackers.
i think this is an Erv Kanemoto built H2750 and Garry Nixon rode it?
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb143/Yokkachi/Kawasaki1976-H2750AMAFlattracker_zpsb004a127.jpg)
Freddie Spencer's 1981 CX500 based racer
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb143/Yokkachi/ns750-b_zps284251a0.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb143/Yokkachi/ns-artikel_zpsfa17e73f.jpg)
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How cool is that RS 750 of Freddie Spencers? Here's Bubba Shoberts later HRS 750 and under that, a poor boy Honda big bore tracker....a Trackmaster CB750 which I presume would be legal for the proposed Old School 'Twins' class.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/HondaBubbaHRS750_zpsf7da869f.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Honda750flattracker_zpsaec5f9d6.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Honda750trackmaster_zps1b6f855d.jpg)
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Aussie Luke Gough aboard the ultra trick Kawasaki 650R Ninja powered / Rick Howerton framed bike at the Springfield Mile. These new generation Japanese twins are starting to poke their nose into Harleys domination of the class.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/lukegough62_zpse08246a4.jpg)
Check out this photo shootout between the Suzuki, Kawasaki, Triumph, Ducati, KTM and Harley. The bikes are getting complex but shouldn't be so hard to build one suitable for our conditions using a wrecker writeoff and some lateral thinking.
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/63107/Motorcycle-Photo-Gallery-Photo/The-Ultimate-AMA-Flat-Track-Shootout.aspx (http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/63107/Motorcycle-Photo-Gallery-Photo/The-Ultimate-AMA-Flat-Track-Shootout.aspx)
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I saw that bike at Hondas US HQ in 1984 and had the $4,200 to buy a brand new motor, but I changed my mind after Gene Romero Explained what was really required and Gary Mathers really didn't want one in Australia.
I then started to by an XR but was talked out of one of them by Ron Wood whose bikes are without doubt the best machine for our tracks, he was sponsoring a very young and extremely polite Chris Carr at the time.
We could fill this thread full of trick US Flattrackers but I would rather it be full of Australian bikes that will be ready to ride later this year.
During that trip I decided to buy a C&J horizontal for the XR500/600 but the wife found out before that happened,
Jay Foreman went back the next year to race the AMA and brought back one of those setup for the CR500,
I still have that bike, Casso ride it at Kempsey in the mid 90s, I crashed it big time at Barleigh Ranch but it has not been raced since cause nobody ever got it to handle,
That reminds me that Peter Goddard followed Jay to the US the following year and I think was the first Aussie to beat the Yanks at their own game.
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Peter Goddard followed Jay to the US the following year and I think was the first Aussie to beat the Yanks at their own game.
Back in the early 80's I recall Ted and Peter Goddard turning up at Nepean with a very tricked out C&J XR500. I wonder where that bike is now?
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Trackmaster CB754 drool drool drool :D Centerfold item for sure ;) Tim754
The North South CX500 conversion , Um really don't know what to say about that arrr ummm "mystical effort" ::)
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There is lots of trick Flattrackers in Aussie sheds,
I hope they start coming out,
I had a look in my shed today for some parts and found a TM400 Flattrack frame,
That will be good to get ready as well.
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Mark I have been planning a similar "Press Day" where we invite all the Motorcycle Media to Barleigh Ranch for a come and try day,
With Chris Watson and Mick Kirkness on hand to "Supervise Things" yeah right !!!!
This will happen when we have one of each bike ready to ride, should be interesting!!!
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Let me guess....that Honda 750/4 has the cranks turned so it fires like a 750 twin.....yeah right!
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Let me guess....that Honda 750/4 has the cranks turned so it fires like a 750 twin.....yeah right!
sidecar road racers used to do that in the 1970's.. and i know of some historic roadrace XS650's and TX750's that have their cranks re-phased to 270 degree, same as a TRX850 :o
although i have no idea who they are or how they did it ;)
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Called a " Twingle " when done to a twin.
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Zak, check out the XS sites on google.
Mikes XS in the US has threads on how to do it though the usual way is to press the crank apart and then rotate it and press it back together. It doesn't give an exact 270 though. To do that you have to get tricky and do it properly :D
We have a kid up here that is actaually numbered 270 on his Wasp and ha has done it all himself and it can fearly fly. Worst thing is it sounds not unlike a 500 single-just you can't catch the bugger :D :D :D
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(http://i46.tinypic.com/23wlhc7.jpg)
Here's my ride, Egon's 1,000cc Wessie, need to pack a few pairs of undies. :o
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All you need is a proper frame like a nice Trackmaster to go with that great Wessy and you're home and hosed 8).
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder Mark, you know me, that IS a proper frame.
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I must be strange I like them both,
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Yeah, Firko,I wuz gunna say the same as Slides, it IS a proper frame !!,
Foss
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Dont get me wrong, I like sliders too, I even have my own beloved Antig but that thing would be a fu*king monster to ride in a spindly little frame. The big V twin looks all wrong in there, the whole thing is tied together by the alloy engine plates and would twist like a licorice stick. That old drag queen Egon Mueller would be the only person insane enough to ride the bloody thing ;D.
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I like the US Flattrackers but the Slider Framed bikes dominated Aussie Short Circuit history for close to 3 decades, we changed the name of our sport to fit in more with the US DT influences.
My big concern is that a big part of our history will be just a memorry.
I do have to agree with you Firko, that would be an absolute beast to ride.
Having said all that, physically I'm not up to riding a Slider again but a well set up Flattracker would be more forgiving and I may still make comeback #3.
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I disagree, Wato is crazy enough,
Jack Stevens, maybe a couple of others,
Things are looking good for Dirttrack,
things are looking Great for Flattrack!!!!!!
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This has SFA to do with Dirt Track, but I got to thinking, Big V twins, Hagon frames ???, Hmm, soooo,
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab106/JAP454/AlfHagonDragJAP.jpg)
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab106/JAP454/AlfhagonDragJAP2.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J3bMnFAiL
Alf was the first Pommy bike into the 9s in 1967 on his JAP
Foss
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Great photo,
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Great photo,
Didya watch the Utube clip, SON ?? love the sound of V twins !!
Foss
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I like the US Flattrackers but the Slider Framed bikes dominated Aussie Short Circuit history for close to 3 decades, we changed the name of our sport to fit in more with the US DT influences.
I agree, it's imperative that the slider remain a part of our dirt track (or short circuit if you prefer) heritage but somebody has to start the ball rolling. For the last three or four years I've been hearing a big whinge about the lack of sliders and that "something needs to be done". Absolutely something should be done, but it's no good sitting around waiting for the mythical other bloke to set something up, if it's important to you (not you specifically Steve, I'm speaking to everyone) and you know someone with a slider, chase him up and find out just why he's not riding it.
In reality though, we need to set something up at vintage club level first, mainly because there are precious few modern laydown sliders. The main slider era was the sixties through late eighties, the upright era, so perhaps its time to repeat what we originally did with Penrith Club when we originally set up classic dirt track back in the late 80's.....cater specifically for sliders by including two classes for them, 2valve and 4 valve engines in upright frames. Regs should be as basic as can be.....as long as the slider's an upright and features swingarm rear suspension and working brakes, it's eligible. When the 2v slider class was at its peak in the mid to late nineties we were getting up to twenty 2valves spread over two, sometimes three age groups and that was not counting TT Yamaha powered bikes which were barred at the time. If a proposed Upright slider class was set up and promoted enthusiastically, there's no reason those nineties entry numbers can't be matched. I know that Alan Jones has been missing for a couple of years due to business and health concerns but he's currently getting a couple of sliders ready for this season. I also know of another two or three that are hot to trot but we need more, many more. Penrith club has made a good start by including specific slider classes in its upcoming Sydney Dirt Track Series but more effort has to be done to get the garage queen sliders out of retirement and back on the track where they belong. Whingeing and whining about how it used to be ain't going to achieve anything for the future. ;)
SORRY FOR THE SLIGHT THREAD DEVIATION
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Here are a couple newly aquired (season old now) modern laydown sliders. Once brakes added cost about the same as a new 450.
We get a few sliders along to mmcc club days but the two gents featured and one or two others and that's it. Pretty hard to get to ride them with only 10 possibilities throughout the year subject to weather etc. Unless you have a race track in your back yard.
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w408/2012_MMCC/P1050299.jpg)
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Speaking of big V Twin flat trackers, how about a TL1000 Suzuki......
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/RtProfile_zps2efdf425.jpg)
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Something different...Trackmaster 750 Ducati:
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Ducati_flat-tracker_zps4e1ee2e4.png)
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or even rarer...a Moto Guzzi flat tracker:
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/pic3_zps6094e4cb.jpg)
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Another shot of the Gene Hartline Trackmaster Benelli that I'm replicating.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Benelli2_zpsb9720249.jpg)
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How would one of those old Honda 450's go in a flat tracker?
Looking at the drawings they are a beautiful looking engine.
Brought up to 500cc plus good carbies and cams,would be interesting.
pancho.
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Pancho near the end of production the 450 was up to 500 (CB500T). The iron monsters are very very heavy for their size, In hindsight they should have been 650s.
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Here's a Sonicweld rigid framed CB450 that's in Dan Rouitts museum.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/072_SonicWeldHonda31Q_zps69a9728b.jpg)
And another unidentified framer CB450
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/450Honda1_zps1d761d5c.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/450Honda2_zps0d1b8e2f.jpg)
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(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o778/crs-and-rms/DSC01863_zps9d1f62f1.jpeg)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o778/crs-and-rms/DSC01862_zps63dee1e4.jpeg)
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(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o778/crs-and-rms/DSC01867_zpscc2484f5.jpeg)
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What a machine! Love it. Piloted by the BEST dirt tracker/longtracker this joint has ever seen.
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Thanks for posting,
All great photos,
The Big Fella sitting on his ar$e
Chris at speed Pit corner Musswellbrook
And Two Heads are better than One.
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something on nepean raceway facebook that the city of penrith (roy gay) had added a new class
suzuki flattrack twins in a bid to bring back some of those twin cylinders out of the sheds
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That 'effen' Godden needs a third wheel :D :D :D
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OLD SCHOOL TWINS
while the class is called twins it is open to all multi cylinder machines, the more exotic the better,
Hopefully enough numbers to separate the racers from the clubmen,
Open to all Aircooled multi cylinder machines of any Capacity or Watercooled multi cylinder machines where the engine was manufactured prior to 1990.
Machines can include,
Harley Davidson
Triumph 500, 650 and 750.
Yamaha XS650, 750, TZ/RD 350 and 400
BSA 650 Lightning
Norton Commando 750 and 850
Weslake 850
SUZUKI T500 and GT550/750 Triples
Honda CB350/400/450/500/600/650/750
Kawasaki 750 Twin and the Triples
Benelli / Laverda / MotoGuzzi.
We are still formulating rules and are listening,
The more the merrier,
Aftermarket framed Trackers is what we are looking for, but modified stock frames are eligible
The above list is just suggestions
?
The Yamaha Twins would be the most competitive in this class.
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Springer, mid 90s, one of Ivan's meetings at Canberra Ekka
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab106/JAP454/Springer_zpsdffb6b4e.jpg)
Foss
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What is the chances of getting bikes back on that track ?
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This is nice piece of new kit
(http://i45.tinypic.com/igzteg.jpg)
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Hey SON, hows this thing progressing?
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I've got a soft spot for those early rigid framed flat trackers, that's the closest the Americans came to our traditional speedway style bike. Below is a new Sonic Harley Sprint/Aermacchi style frame that's currently for sale on vft.org. Below that is my NOS 1962 built Tom Cates rigid frame that will eventually house my CL77 Honda 305 twin motor. I've been told by a number of people that even if fitted with brakes, it can't be used on our dirt tracks because it doesn't have any rear suspension. If true, why?
This is nice piece of new kit
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/igzteg_zps34fb18f7.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/igzteg_zps34fb18f7.jpg.html)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/04Apr17-SprintFrameSonicweld_zps39763ce2.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/04Apr17-SprintFrameSonicweld_zps39763ce2.jpg.html)
Sonicweld/Trackmaster Sprint frame. New in the box frame only. $1200 Plus shipping call 850-899-0077
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/catesframe_zps8ff35313.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/catesframe_zps8ff35313.jpg.html)
1962 Tom Cates Honda twin frame.
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cant see why not as some pre 60 bikes came ridged from the factory.it would be a pre65 bike and some pre 65 bikes are ridged
jim
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cant see why not as some pre 60 bikes came ridged from the factory.it would be a pre65 bike and some pre 65 bikes are ridged
jim
Yeah, rigid frames are not allowed in modern Dirt Track, this was brought in some years ago to stamp out the use of Speedway frames in DT, however, I can't find any rule that prohibits rigid arse ends in Classic DT.
Foss
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cant see why not as some pre 60 bikes came ridged from the factory.it would be a pre65 bike and some pre 65 bikes are ridged
Exactly. I brought it up with a few guys at the Nepean practice day last Saturday and the concensus echoed Foss, "Yeah, rigid frames are not allowed in modern Dirt Track, this was brought in some years ago to stamp out the use of Speedway frames in DT, however, I can't find any rule that prohibits rigid arse ends in Classic DT." While it might be a while before I get to build this cool old bit of American DT history, I'd like to be able to compete in the pre 65 class on it. Here's a finished version of what I'll build
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/catesHonda3_zpsccec7904-1_zps8333d697.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/catesHonda3_zpsccec7904-1_zps8333d697.jpg.html)
below: A close replica of this Sonic/Trackmaster rigid framed Royal Enfield Fury (fat head) is to be built by a Sydney racer for the pre 60/pre 65 dirt track class in the near future.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/royal_enfield_flat-track_fury_1965_zps23be12b5.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/royal_enfield_flat-track_fury_1965_zps23be12b5.jpg.html)
A Sonic Ducati narrow case rigid
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/000_0418_zps78ea1ddf.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/000_0418_zps78ea1ddf.jpg.html)
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OLD SCHOOL TWINS
while the class is called twins it is open to all multi cylinder machines, the more exotic the better,
Hopefully enough numbers to separate the racers from the clubmen,
Open to all Aircooled multi cylinder machines of any Capacity or Watercooled multi cylinder machines where the engine was manufactured prior to 1990.
Machines can include,
Harley Davidson
Triumph 500, 650 and 750.
Yamaha XS650, 750, TZ/RD 350 and 400
BSA 650 Lightning
Norton Commando 750 and 850
Weslake 850
SUZUKI T500 and GT550/750 Triples
Honda CB350/400/450/500/600/650/750
Kawasaki 750 Twin and the Triples
Benelli / Laverda / MotoGuzzi.
We are still formulating rules and are listening,
The more the merrier,
Aftermarket framed Trackers is what we are looking for, but modified stock frames are eligible
The above list is just suggestions
RD 350 / 400 just perfect for this class
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I got a call from Steve Gall today and he told me that he's intending to build a Yamaha Tenere twin powered flat tracker. He also put in the hard word on riding my OW72 but I told him I already had a rider lined up. I did however offer him the odd guest ride whenever my usual bloke is away working overseas ;).
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Steve phoned me after Mark,
A bike or two will be available whenever Steve's schedule allows,
Having Steve Gall wanting to compete in this class shows we are heading in the right direction.
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I've been doing some research on the history of my Shell OW 72 Yamaha and got a reply from well known California racer/constructor/historian/collector Clyde Williams who sent me a couple of photos of my bike when my friend the late Bob Neilson owned it. Bob had also asked Clyde if he knew any of the history of frame #592 but knowing little, Clyde has steered me towards Tom Horton who could possibly have the late Shell Thuets records. OW72 engines traditionally don't have engine numbers but can often be identified by internal numbering of rods, crank flywheels and other parts. All of the engine part numbering was different from motor to motor so Shells little exercise book might be the only sure way of identifying who the engine was supplied to. The belief by Bob Neilsons wife Linda that Horton had rebuilt the engine for Bob might get me a little closer to the truth.
Part of the joy of my involvement in writing about old bikes and the sport itself is the research into the history of particular bikes. Maybe it's my DNA as the son of a detective or maybe its my insatiable curiosity, who knows for sure, I do however have a sneaking feeling that there'll be a good story attached to this bike. These bikes weren't sold to just anybody, they were way to expensive and hard to get for the average 'C grader/Novice/intermediate' racer as a works bike should be. This bike's sure to have done the hard miles, I just have to find out who was doing the riding.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Shell_1_zpsc3aef26e.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/Shell_1_zpsc3aef26e.jpg.html)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Shell_2_zps572e9e83.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/Shell_2_zps572e9e83.jpg.html)
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Why should "works" bikes be out of reach, unobtainable to "C grader, intermediate etc riders. ??? ??? >:(
A good developed, performing machine may just make an "A" grader out of a "C" grader riding a less competitive bike.
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Why should "works" bikes be out of reach, unobtainable to "C grader, intermediate etc riders. Huh Huh Angry
In a perfect world you're absolutely right, a good C grader could make the grade if given a chance to ride a works bike but because these bikes were so rare, they usually went to name riders. It might not be fair but that's the way the system usually works. The factories build works bikes to win championships, not offer hope for up and comers. I can't recall a works special being offered to anyone other than works or at least pro riders in any facet of motorcycle sport....ever.
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Why should "works" bikes be out of reach, unobtainable to "C grader, intermediate etc riders. Huh Huh Angry
In a perfect world you're absolutely right, a good C grader could make the grade if given a chance to ride a works bike but because these bikes were so rare, they usually went to name riders. It might not be fair but that's the way the system usually works. The factories build works bikes to win championships, not offer hope for up and comers. I can't recall a works special being offered to anyone other than works or at least pro riders in any facet of motorcycle sport....ever.
Though I have heard that the odd,very rich, America dad have bought some special or other to help their kid get on top....if it worked or not is another matter.
Also heard of a guy in NSW that bought an ex Repsol Dakar bike to go trail riding...(for $45k) :o
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Though I have heard that the odd,very rich, America dad have bought some special or other to help their kid get on top....if it worked or not is another matter.
Also heard of a guy in NSW that bought an ex Repsol Dakar bike to go trail riding...(for $45k)
There are exceptions to everything but you'd rarely, if ever see a big factory offer up a works bike that could cost up to a million dollars to a C grader. The key word you used in the bloke using a Dakar bike for trail riding is "ex Repsol". Once a works bike has done its job it become yesterdays newspaper to the teams and they're either put through the crusher, donated to the factory racers private collection or sold to a lower rung team. That's when the up and coming C grader might get his golden opportunity to ride a works bike but it can never be compared to a works ride.
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I heard the same thing EML, Andys old bike would make an excellent adventure bike, and talking piece around the camp fire, or outback bar. I do believe the bike was given to his wife when he pasted away, then was sold to get some coin together for his wife and kids some years later..... RIP Mr Cauldercott..
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Yes Firko I understand that it was an EX Repsol Dakar bike. the point was that 'cheque book racing' is and always has been alive and well.
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Jimmy's, SON's and my flat trackers have finally left Las Vegas and are on their way to Long Beach to be loaded on the ship for Oz. Linda and here helpers have certainly made this as smooth an operation as possible. Everything looks to be perfectly packaged and well protected for the journey. I can't wait ;D.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/SAM_00191_zps611b5235.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/SAM_00191_zps611b5235.jpg.html)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/SAM_0021_zps6c4adfed.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/SAM_0021_zps6c4adfed.jpg.html)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/SAM_00221_zps465dc784.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/SAM_00221_zps465dc784.jpg.html)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/SAM_0023_zps82683264.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/SAM_0023_zps82683264.jpg.html)
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Awesome!
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BIG TWINS
Harley Davidson
XR750, 883, 1100 & 1200 Sportster / Buell or V Rod1000
Honda
VTR1000, Transalp/Shadow 600,650,700, 750 or 1000
Suzuki
SV SFV or DL650, TL SV or DL1000.
Yamaha
XS 650, TDM or TRX 750, 850 or 900.
Kawasaki 650,
Hyosung 650,
CF Moto 650
BMW 800
Husqvarna 900
Triumph 800 or 900 or Triples?
DUCATI anything over 550cc
APRILIA anything over 550cc
Any other suggestions???
While the Class is called Big Twins it is open to 3 or 4 cylinder machines of over 550ccs as well but the high horsepower and light flywheel weight of these machines will make traction difficult,
Again I am happy to be proved wrong
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OLD SCHOOL SINGLES
We obviously will have a vintage singles class,
Astros, Champions, Redlines Trackmasters,
I want to see them all, thats why I am letting this out so far in advance,
Just not sure how to get them all in and have competitive racing
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Singles will be covered in other classes,
1/.ProLites
2/. ProOpens
3/. Big Singles
4/. Old School Twins
5/. Big Twins
6/. Old School Singles
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Just have some heats/qualifiers and time everyone(transponders) and then seed them into a final...no matter what bike they are on and then settle the classes from there maybe.
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The big problem is that our Classic events are getting very crowded.
If this Class is gunna have any chance of survival we need to produce evidence of competitive numbers.
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The big problem is that our Classic events are getting very crowded.
If this Class is gunna have any chance of survival we need to produce evidence of competitive numbers.
If this class is Gunnar have any chance of survival we need to have sponsors prepared to build bikes for others to race on their behalf for their enjoyment.
Cheap racing
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.If this class is Gunnar have any chance of survival we need to have sponsors prepared to build bikes for others to race on their behalf for their enjoyment.
That's exactly what I'm intending to do because I want this to happen. Yamaico Pete is riding my Shell 750 and Steve Gall will get the ride if Pete's unavailable due to overseas work. I've decided to build my Trackmaster up with the 650 Triumph engine I bought to replace the sold Benelli motor which either I'll ride or I'll put another faster mate in it. It won't be a ball tearer with a stock TR6 650 but it'll be plenty fast for this old fat guy. The third bike for the twins will be my rigid Tom Cates framed C77 Honda 305 that I'll also contribute to the class.
More than anything I look forward to match racing Jimmy on his Yetman ;D.
For a change of pace.....how cool is this 750 Honda 8).
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Honda4740_zpsf569bae5.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/Honda4740_zpsf569bae5.jpg.html)
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Thanks Mark, I know you are part of the program.
For this Class to survive we need "Good People to do Something".
I have been around Racing Motorcycles long enough to know what is exciting and what people will pay money to see.
BTW Honda 4 Yes, 750cc No
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thats a great looking honda four
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slides is right i think the penrith club maybe thinking twice about running the class.
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I spoke to Roy re penrith meeting and because there is only 3 enries the class will not be run this round but if they get 6 entries it will be run next round so get them going ;D
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slides is right i think the penrith club maybe thinking twice about running the class.
Why would Penrith club even think of doing that? There are a number of eligible twins already racing with the club and while this year might be a bit slow to get decent fields, by next year I'm pretty sure there'll be full grids . I know of six bikes being built and how many others are there sitting waiting for something to happen?
If this Class is gunna have any chance of survival we need to produce evidence of competitive numbers
The concept of American style twins racing has only just got rolling so it'd be a bit premature to expect full grids (or even half grids) this early in the piece. Now that the existence of the class is becoming more known, we'll get more and more race bikes coming on line. Besides the Caslick and Watto bikes that SON mentioned I know that Steve Gall is about to start on a Yamaha Tenere based modern and another well known former slider racer has vowed to return on a big bore tracker. If you count in the four bikes currently on the water to my shipper alone and the bikes under construction or, like Phippsy's Shell Yamaha 750, just sitting in semi retirement waiting the inspiration to come out there is more than enough evidence of "competitive numbers".
We don't have to go very far back to remember the full grids of 750 flat trackers that were running in conjunction with the Ivan Mauger and Kevin McDonald promoted Long Track Speedway series'. Many of those bikes are still out there (although Jack Stevens has his Nourish 850 Redline on the street these days Jack's indicated that he'd be a starter on another bike if anyone's looking for a gun for hire ::)).
If all of the balls fall in the right place there will be plenty of bikes up and ready next year.
One suggestion that makes sense to me is to include a class for single and 2 stroke framers like my new Yamaha, Phippsy's Champion SC500, Yamaico Pete's IZ465 Yamaha and Astro 360, Jimmy's Champion Elsinore, Piney's new Kawasaki and the numerous other Astros and other short trackers that are around. I know of six or seven of them doing duty as garage queens or waiting for an engine or a rebuild. As many know, short track style bikes don't handle our tracks as well as a motocross oriented machine so they often stay home in the pool room. Wouldn't it be great if a separate class could be included for these bikes, if only to get them out in public again? It's already passed that there'll be a class for short trackers on the Nepean speedway track to run in conjunction with the club speedway days which will be a lot of fun, I'm sure ;D.
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BTW Honda 4 Yes, 750cc No
True, it is (or was) a CB500 or CB550.
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BTW Honda 4 Yes, 750cc No
rue, it is (or was) a CB500 or CB550.
My Bad, it just goes to show how much I'm out of my depth with Honda roadies. This is a CB750 flat tracker though ::)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Honda750flattracker_zps01313a8b.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/Honda750flattracker_zps01313a8b.jpg.html)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Honda750trackmaster_zpsdbcbd677.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/Honda750trackmaster_zpsdbcbd677.jpg.html)
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And this is how to get a 750/4 round a corner 8)
(http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii576/KAB171/754swysjpeg1_zps1966d976.jpeg) (http://s1260.photobucket.com/user/KAB171/media/754swysjpeg1_zps1966d976.jpeg.html)
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Bloody hell ! A good keen man. I recall seeing a pic of Paul Giles banging round a short track with a stock roadie CB750 years back, hats off....
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BTW Honda 4 Yes, 750cc No
True, it is (or was) a CB500 or CB550.
close,but no cigar ;),uncommon,unloved by some,CB650/4, :P
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If they don't want you guys down there, get 'em on a truck and we'll have you up here.....and probably further north.
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If they don't want you guys down there, get 'em on a truck and we'll have you up here.....and probably further north.
I'd love to be a part of it (singles at least) at Action Park Raceway. But anywhere it's held I'd like to have a crack. Irecon the handicap race concept would be fun. Imagine a single two stroke running a fast smooth line and a hoard of big fat twins barrelling in behind him! Even the crowd would be shitting themselves ;D
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If they don't want you guys down there, get 'em on a truck and we'll have you up here.....and probably further north.
Well even if there are not Enought for a Class at least invite them
to the meeting ::) even if you let them do 3 or 4 by 3 lap Demo runs
it would still be worth it for the sound of a big twin 4 stroke doing
Laps.
The Stig
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I'm def not trying to pour cold water on the concept, just an observation of the current circumstances.
I love the sound of them and the bonus of seeing Wato & Caso go for it means I'll be there as a keen observer, may even be tempted to have a go myself, Carlos has several XS650 donks stashed away and they're not all 650's. ;)
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Hey Slidz, maybe we need to get Burkenstein aboard one of those beasties
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Here is a nice offering for such meetings. I sort of have a thing for A65 beeza's.
(http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad326/Steve234_album/06Jun05-BSA-a65.jpg) (http://s948.photobucket.com/user/Steve234_album/media/06Jun05-BSA-a65.jpg.html)
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Carlos has several XS650 donks stashed away and they're not all 650's. Wink
It's time Carlos and his little bro got the Sidchromes and hammers out and built something using their huge knowledge, big parts stash and Carls legendary riding talent to build a 'two brothers' flat tracker project.. The sport needs characters like Carl Askew*.
*Or can someone put Carlos's arse on a slider for Temora?
Here is a nice offering for such meetings. I sort of have a thing for A65 beeza's.
I love them too Steve. I spotted that Sonic framed beauty on vft myself and it wasn't very expensive either.
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I just came across this photo in my files and had to post it again because it's just so stunning. The bike is my late friend Bob Neilson's factory rigid framed BSA Gold Star flat tracker. Bob owned some very tasty bikes in the years I knew him but this jewel and the Shell Yamaha 750 I bought from his widow are the crème de la crème. There are still a few bikes left in his estate that are to be sold including a genuine RH67 Suzuki and both of Harry Hindalls personal bikes, his lightweight 750 Triumph Hindall d esert racer and the TT500 play racer I wrote a feature on in VMX #44.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/BobsGoldy_zps888db110.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/BobsGoldy_zps888db110.jpg.html)
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wow thats a very nice looking bike
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Beautiful machine, I think it needs a nice G.P. carby and a couple of spots of brown dirt on the front of the timing case.
pancho
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at least it would idle (if it had to ;)) with the 1000 series amal, :P
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at least it would idle (if it had to ;)) with the 1000 series amal, :P
What? IDLE? That's for commuters on Lambrettas!
pancho
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My only complaint is the Excel rims, my pet hate on early bikes. Bob told me that he was going to fit Borrani mud catchers but he sold the bike before he had the chance.
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My only complaint is the Excel rims, my pet hate on early bikes. Bob told me that he was going to fit Borrani mud catchers but he sold the bike before he had the chance.
Got a quote for some valanced rims the other day, $350 each. Add spokes and labour.
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Got a quote for some valanced rims the other day, $350 each. Add spokes and labour.
I know what you mean Steve, luckily I've managed to save a few over the years, knowing that they'd eventually become scarce and expensive. We used to be able to pick them up at wreckers for $20 because nobody really wanted them. 40 hole 21" valanced rims are the hard ones to find and DID or Takasago Japanese copies the nicest to polish up because of the softer alloy used.
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Peter Goddard followed Jay to the US the following year and I think was the first Aussie to beat the Yanks at their own game.
Back in the early 80's I recall Ted and Peter Goddard turning up at Nepean with a very tricked out C&J XR500. I wonder where that bike is now?
Has anyone spoken to Peter Goddard recently?