OzVMX Forum

Marque Remarks => Suzuki => Topic started by: SON on December 07, 2012, 10:23:51 pm

Title: DR400/SP Stroker Cranks
Post by: SON on December 07, 2012, 10:23:51 pm
I am about to get 4 cranks rebuilt 2 with standard length long rods
2 with shorter rods
Is there any demand for any more?
Price will be about AUD$425 including new rod kit
Title: Re: DR400/SP Stroker Cranks
Post by: ola_martin on December 07, 2012, 11:46:06 pm
What stroke?
Title: Re: DR400/SP Stroker Cranks
Post by: SON on December 08, 2012, 04:32:31 am
What would you like?
Title: Re: DR400/SP Stroker Cranks
Post by: SON on December 08, 2012, 07:47:52 am
I am thinking of doing two different lengths
A little R&D
1 for MX
1 for Flattrack
Title: Re: DR400/SP Stroker Cranks
Post by: oldfart on December 08, 2012, 12:18:59 pm
Interested in Mx version...  cams are problem they tend to wear out the carrier.
Title: Re: DR400/SP Stroker Cranks
Post by: evo550 on December 08, 2012, 05:41:13 pm
I am about to get 4 cranks rebuilt 2 with standard length long rods
2 with shorter rods
Is there any demand for any more?
Price will be about AUD$425 including new rod kit
What does changing rod length do on a fourstroke??
Title: Re: DR400/SP Stroker Cranks
Post by: SON on December 08, 2012, 06:50:19 pm
Long rod is better for several reasons
However that will require a barrell base spacer, a longer cam chain and a bit of work to get the compression and valve clearances just right.
The squashed or shorter rod Might??? Alleviate the barrell spacer, allow the standard cam chain and is generally easier to set up, big downside steeper angles don't like revs but should be OK for VMX.
My TT 605 runs the Powroll short rod stroker but is for MX
I would not run a short rod stroker on Flattrack.
Title: Re: DR400/SP Stroker Cranks
Post by: ola_martin on December 11, 2012, 08:26:28 pm
Sorry, been without a computer for some days.
I don't know much about these engines, just that I had one as a kid, and would love to build something cool for MX with a DR engine. I don't even have one anymore...
I don't have the knowledge to calculate the compromise between stroke and rod angle, but it would of course be best to have as much cc as possible.
If I where to buy a crank I would like the short rod type, as this engine is tall enough...
Title: Re: DR400/SP Stroker Cranks
Post by: SON on December 11, 2012, 09:15:26 pm
Better question/answer is MX bottom end mild revs V Flattrack top end high revs
Answer your own question but shorter works for me
Title: Re: DR400/SP Stroker Cranks
Post by: ola_martin on December 11, 2012, 10:52:54 pm
SON, what stroke do you reccomend as max with a shortened rod then? For MX.
Title: Re: DR400/SP Stroker Cranks
Post by: evo550 on December 12, 2012, 12:32:20 am
Long rod is better for several reasons
However that will require a barrell base spacer, a longer cam chain and a bit of work to get the compression and valve clearances just right.
The squashed or shorter rod Might??? Alleviate the barrell spacer, allow the standard cam chain and is generally easier to set up, big downside steeper angles don't like revs but should be OK for VMX.
My TT 605 runs the Powroll short rod stroker but is for MX
I would not run a short rod stroker on Flattrack.
When you say shorter rod, do you mean standard length rod ?
Title: Re: DR400/SP Stroker Cranks
Post by: ola_martin on December 12, 2012, 12:48:25 am
When you stroke a crank you off course need to shorten the rod by half of the total increased stroke, to keep the piston stopping at the same height. This comes at the expense of a less ideal rod angle.

When you stroke the crank and keep the original rod you need a spacer of half of the increased stoke at the bottom of the cylinder.

Title: Re: DR400/SP Stroker Cranks
Post by: pancho on December 12, 2012, 11:04:35 am
 Somewhere in the "files" there is considerable discussion on con rod length and the associated variation in rod angulation (is that a word?)
I found it very interesting in light of my experience in the '60s were short rods were the "in thing".
 The summary in my head indicates that shorter rod equals more torque at some limited rev range, all the current experts seem to agree that longer rod is better overall.
  (still talking engine!) ;)
pancho
Title: Re: DR400/SP Stroker Cranks
Post by: David Lahey on December 12, 2012, 01:53:05 pm
Longer rod = heavier rod so there is a significant trade-off
Title: Re: DR400/SP Stroker Cranks
Post by: SON on December 12, 2012, 02:02:41 pm
Long rod is fine for flattrack where you want the flywheel weight,
I have photos of the DR engine with the Yamaha rod, I just don't know how to post them,
Title: Re: DR400/SP Stroker Cranks
Post by: SON on December 12, 2012, 05:13:19 pm
I have disassembled the SP370 with the TT500 Crank installed,
it has been narrowed slightly and several mm turned off the diameter
looks like the Suzuki flywheel goes onto the Yamaha taper but will measure tomorrow
Have photos just have to learn to post from my apple
Title: Re: DR400/SP Stroker Cranks
Post by: ola_martin on December 12, 2012, 09:46:20 pm
Longer rod = heavier rod so there is a significant trade-off

You can almost always remove material of the crankhalves around the pin to compensate.
Title: Re: DR400/SP Stroker Cranks
Post by: ola_martin on December 12, 2012, 09:47:17 pm
I have disassembled the SP370 with the TT500 Crank installed,
it has been narrowed slightly and several mm turned off the diameter
looks like the Suzuki flywheel goes onto the Yamaha taper but will measure tomorrow
Have photos just have to learn to post from my apple

Looking forward to it, how big is the spacer used?
Title: Re: DR400/SP Stroker Cranks
Post by: GMC on December 12, 2012, 09:51:11 pm
Have photos just have to learn to post from my apple

You need to upload them to Photobucket.
You can do this as per Roger's guide (link below)
It has changed a bit since this guide was made but if you choose classic style then it should make more sense

http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=17785.0
Title: Re: DR400/SP Stroker Cranks
Post by: cloggy on December 13, 2012, 04:59:45 am
 I know the 370 and 400 look similar but as I understand it the 400 is beefed up. I'm not sure what is the same and what is not.
Title: Re: DR400/SP Stroker Cranks
Post by: SON on December 13, 2012, 05:31:37 am
I will know in a few hours I have a 370 apart on the bench and a 400 engine out of the frame ready to come apart.
the 370 is engine number SP370-100065
I will be at work in 3 hours so I will post then.
Title: Re: DR400/SP Stroker Cranks
Post by: cloggy on December 16, 2012, 10:30:08 pm
 Looking at the Clymer manual there is mention of a 450 Powroll stroke kit . The picture seems to show a standard rod. Anyone know how a DR piston compares with a XT piston?
I know in standard form they are not interchangeable [disregarding the bore size] as if they were someone would have done it after 30 years, but I would guess that possibly the pin OD might be the same [DR 20mm]. If that is so what is the distance from top of pin to top of piston for a XT piston?
Title: Re: DR400/SP Stroker Cranks
Post by: EML on December 17, 2012, 12:06:34 pm
If it's any consolation, both SP370 and XT500 pistons are/were used in XS650 hop-ups for sidecar cross.
Wally Wasp might know more.
Title: Re: DR400/SP Stroker Cranks
Post by: oldfart on December 17, 2012, 05:42:09 pm
XT  TT  SR  500 (87mm) 20mm pin   1mm over = std bore 88mm on the Dr 400     10: 1 comp   
Or go with the 90mm pistons with 11.1 comp  or 12.1  comp.  Piston will need to be modified some what.
Title: Re: DR400/SP Stroker Cranks
Post by: cloggy on December 18, 2012, 06:58:53 am
 To get a 450 the stroke has to be 74 which is 9 up the DR's 65.2 so I guess the XT taking 2mm of half that still leaves approx 2.4 mm  for extra compression. I've bent a valve with the standard set up, and that still leaves valve cutaway and  piston skirt as unknowns