OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Yamaha => Topic started by: head on November 23, 2012, 08:10:24 pm
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Got a 1977 IT250 quite a while ago, now that season is over I thought I would try and turn it into a competetive pre 78 bike.
The frame was stripped and rear loop removed along with all other brackets that are not used. As I want it to look like a YZ, a tank was purcased of Iainyz (from the forum), Tank mounts had to be moved back to suit YZ tank and new rear fender brackets welded on. Then a nice coat of 2K black gloss paint applied.(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PB070022.jpg)
Swing arm was modified to remove snail cam adjusters and a set of adjusters from the MCS catalouge was fitted.(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PB070019.jpg)(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PB070018.jpg)
While the paint gun was out the hubs and triples where painted. I have bought a set of 38mm YZ forks and a YZ250D monoshock to add to the transformation.(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PB070020.jpg)
Wheels have been relaced with re zinced front spokes and a set from Chivo's for the rear with new Torpedo7 rims that cost $118 for the two (bargain)(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PB230036.jpg)(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PB230034.jpg)
Just started to learn to Zinc plate using a car battery and have been going off rezincing every thing(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PB100029.jpg)
(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PB100030.jpg)(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PB110032.jpg)
Will continue posting further progress.
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Very nice , looking forward to the finished job .
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Wow that looks real nice.
I am interested in the rims from torpedo 7
Were they 21" and 18"
I noticed the yesterday but the website only listed 19" rear.
I need a set of wheels and I think that would be the go.
Are you interested in zinc plating some spokes? They look real nice!!!!
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nice zinc plant! is the green thing between the blue tank and the multimeter a variable resistor and whats its purpose ???
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Yes it is a wire wound resistor with a adjustable slide. Its purpose is to limit the current to about 1 amp.
Wheels are 18" and 21". I noticed they don't have 18's at the moment. Torpedo7 is a great site, I buy heaps of there specials.
I am a little to busy to take on any extra work at the moment, not enough hours in the day as it is.
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Thats looking great, when I rebuilt my 78 IT400 I put YZ swingarm, forks and shock.
I have made a homemade plating kit myself, usning an zinc boat anodode but doesnt seam as nice as yours. Could you give the rundown on your process?
Keep up the good work!
Chris
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I bought the chemicals and 2 anodes from Jane plating kits. It cost $75 delivered. The resistor is a 30 ohm with a slide. Negative goes to job and set current to about 1 amp. If to many bubbles come current is to high and leave for about 1/2 hour. Rods that support jobs can be copper or aluminum and use copper wire to suspend items.
How does your IT handle with the YZ suspension?
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Today's progress.
The goal was to get the front forks done. Clean legs up with some emery paper.(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PB240004.jpg)(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PB240003.jpg)(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PB240005.jpg)More Zinc plating(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PB240006.jpg)
Modify damping rods to one on the bottom(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PB240007.jpg)Fit all the secret trick internals, new seals and .42 springs.(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PB240008.jpg)and the finished forks with wheel just sitting in, had to put front plate on.(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PB240009.jpg)May try to get font wheel sorted tomorrow. Or go wake boarding instead. See what weather turns out like.
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Just one suggestion or advise you may already know with this type of build. Yamaha AG 200 front brake cable will fit perfect and you can still buy from Yamaha dealer NOS IT 465 levers and perches.
The 465 clutch lever has better pull than 250.
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As with all of your bikes, nice job Neil. I've been wanting to do the zink plating thing ever since I've been restoring/building old bikes. Is there any hidden dramas with the Janes kit? Anything we should know that they don't tell you? Does anyone know how a Jane kit compares to a Caswell kit?
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Thanks for info. I got some cables from DC plastics when i bough the plastic kit. And some $12.95 Ballards levers and perches. But I will keep that in mind, Thanks.
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I only bought the chemicals, but a mate bought the full kit with the power supply. I wish I had done this when I first got into doing bikes up. It has paid for itself already. You just have to be careful with preparation and keep things very clean. I could send you a copy of instructions if you like.
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Both kits are are around $275 so I wonder if either has any advantage over the other?
http://www.caswellplating.com.au/store/store.php/products/copy-cad-and-zinc-plating-kit (http://www.caswellplating.com.au/store/store.php/products/copy-cad-and-zinc-plating-kit)
http://www.janekits.com.au/zincplatingkit.php
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One thing to be carefull of if you are doing this in the same shed as all your tools/babies/NOS parts is to make sure it is well ventilated....Ive seen the results in a 12x12 metre shed that was locked up with no ventilation and full of very expensive HK/T/G Monaros and a new boat in there.....the chemical reaction in the air after the plating was done created alot of corrosion on everything in the shed. A mate does it from home and he worked for a place that did zincing and has bought all the commercial gear, he put it in a separate shed 30 meters away from everything. If you look around next time your in a platers, take notice of all the corrosion on everything in the building....you'll shit your pants. The secret to nice plating is in the preparation....the plating is a 5 minute job but if you want it to look good for a long time then take your time getting everything perfect before going into the tank. Tip of the day. Those cheapy garden sheds are ideal.
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I bought the chemicals and 2 anodes from Jane plating kits. It cost $75 delivered. The resistor is a 30 ohm with a slide. Negative goes to job and set current to about 1 amp. If to many bubbles come current is to high and leave for about 1/2 hour. Rods that support jobs can be copper or aluminum and use copper wire to suspend items.
How does your IT handle with the YZ suspension?
Head, I have a 1 amp 6/12V charger I am using, should there be a few bubbles or non at all? IF you could post or e mail your instructions that would be great!
The IT handles great and works awsome in the bush. Also I did one MX race late in the season and only put a bit more preload into the rear shock. My parts setup is a 78 IT400 frame, 79 YZ250 shock and swingarm, and 82 YZ125 forks and swingarm. I had a set of 81 YZ125 forks that wourked better in the bush (softer sprung) but bent one of the tubes when I flipped it being a retard (thinking i was 20 not 40 and remebering I wasnt on a 4 stroke too late!)
I love this part of the build, I am assembleing my motor for my YZ250H today , and for onceahead of the game as we just got our first snow! Its first run may be on the ice with studs!
Cheers, Chris
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I run it so it just bubbles where the wire supporting job enters the solution. See first photo of zincing in this thread. Give me your email or address and I will see what I can do.
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only trial fitted back wheel today as I had to fix my daughters car where some A-Hole keyed the side of it, have been putting it off for a while now.(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PB250001.jpg)[img width=800 height=600]
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Got the cylinder back from a re-bore yesterday. Need to enlarge to fit a decent set of reeds.(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PB290001.jpg)(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PB290002.jpg)
Got to graft these two sets of footpegs together(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PB290003.jpg)
And work out how to fit Chinese chainblock.(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PB290004.jpg).
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jeeze those chain block holes line up pretty good out of the packet
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Yeah, it just needs to sit about where I am holding it.
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Didn't get a real lot done over the weekend, but footpegs are completed. Rear shock will be next project, bought a 250D shock off Nathen at CD9. Have pulled shock apart and will do my best to fit decent valving in and see how good I can make it. If anyone has a alloy arm for the back braking plate that they would like to sell, give me a bell. The one i have is steel and off a later model.(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PC030007.jpg)(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PC030003.jpg)(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PC030006.jpg)
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I have had a bit more progress over the last few weekends. The rear shock is done(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PC160005.jpg)
The tank is painted as it was pretty ordinary.(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PC080002.jpg)(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PC080004.jpg)
Rear chain guide done, coles chopping board and some alloy sheet.(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PC160006.jpg)
Looking good, will have to make a start on motor and build a pipe.(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PC210010.jpg)(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/PC210008.jpg)
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Been doing a bit more to the project. Pulled apart the bottom end and all looked great. Reassemled with new mains and a few seals. Just got to wait for cylinder to come back from port job. Then all I have to do is make the exhaust and fit a throttle when it arrives. Hopefully making the first round of Heaven.
(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/010.jpg)(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/009.jpg)(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/011.jpg)
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great job ! just wondering ,did you use a 125 rear gaurd with the single bolt on the seat support? and when you cut off the rear frame loop was the muffler mount there and you cut behind it? I have an IT400 that has the loop cut off when I got it and there is no muffler mount? Maybe they cut off too much ::)
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Thanks, It is a 250/400 gaurd, have not used centre mount, drilled two holes in loop and welded nuts on. Yes I cut the loop off just past the muffler mount.
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Have started making pipe and muffler.(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/001_zps5d5dadb7.jpg)(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/002_zpsfafc3b3f.jpg)(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/006_zps9ed8fc87.jpg)(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/005_zpsbaf2fce5.jpg)(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/008_zps73536ce7.jpg)
Just got to fill the gaps with these bits and finally might get a chance to fire it up.(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/007_zps2d0d73cc.jpg)
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As per usual Neil.........a brilliant job of turning shit into gold. I think there's a shot or two of you on your Cooper over on my Nepean 90's thread on Photo Forum
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They were good times, that thing used to go fairly hard. I remember the guys laughing at me when I showed up with a Cooper.
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What gauge steel are you using for your chamber & how do you roll it [proper gear]. Think i'll crawl back in my hole as You guys are craftsmen [crafts people, better not be sexist in this pc age]. The 10 or so i made over the bucket years were just suzuki quad steel crate base stuff of about 0.7mm, have some wooden cones i spun up to help. 0.8 was a bit hard to roll by hand [long ago, might be wrong] Have tried to roll some cones out of a steel from thinner parts of a stove [& fridge i think] kept it as it measured about 0.7 or 8 but must be high tensile or something as rolled in small flats [might start a new trend!!] Thanks.
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Great job you're doing there mate, bike is looking fantastic! Just wondering with your painting of the tank, did you apply some sort of process to prevent bubbling? If so has it been successful?
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Yamaico put me onto this.You need to get the right steel (1mm CA2SE) which is soft malleable iron and really easy to roll. Bought a sheet from Metal Land for about $70. I hand roll them around a old fork tube and a 1/2 bar hose clamped to fork tube, also use a soft face hammer for edges.
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Show us the 465
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Yamaico put me onto this.You need to get the right steel (1mm CA2SE) which is soft malleable iron and really easy to roll. Bought a sheet from Metal Land for about $70. I hand roll them around a old fork tube and a 1/2 bar hose clamped to fork tube, also use a soft face hammer for edges.
Otherwise known as low carbon steel or Panel steel.
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The 465 is just lots of parts scattered around my sheds. One at a time Ted.
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The painting of plastic tanks is hit and miss. I have done one 3 years ago and it is still perfect. The next one I did flaked of in a month. Plastic primer, 2k primer and 2k paint. Hope this one lasts.
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Finally finished pipe, bike ready for a test ride when all this rain stops. Started it up though and it sounds OK, I am running the IT250 ignition which is a large outer rotor type. Not sure if I am going to be happy with this and would be interested in a YZ250 C, D, or E inner rotor ignition. If any one has one for sale or swap for IT ignition, it would help me out heaps. Here are final pics of Pipe fitted up.(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/001_zps9f45e29e.jpg)(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/002_zps9d75d7e0.jpg)(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/003_zps10e1392b.jpg)(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/004_zps1082f091.jpg)(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n542/fastesthead/005_zps4fab379b.jpg)
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What did you use to design the pipe?
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Just the formulas out of Graham Bells book, with a few educated guesses.
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Wow that pipe looks nice.
What is the book you refer to?
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You've done a great job on that pipe Neil, well done.
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TFR it is Two-Stroke Performance Tuning by Graham Bell
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Thanks Pete, but it is your influence that got me game enough to try these things.
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You've done a great job on that pipe Neil, well done.
I agree with Pete, great pipe and another great project Neil. This bike to me represents the DIY attitude that makes our side of the offroad dirt scene so unique. With guys like you and Pete building bikes that aren't cookie cutter copies of everyone elses bikes, the sport's just that wee bit more interesting ;).
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Just the formulas out of Graham Bells book, with a few educated guesses.
What tuned length did you arrive at as it looks mighty short.
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It was 786mm
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Did you tig weld it? (the nice pipe)
I have seen a few done with oxy (fusion weld)
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Yes, that was my first pipe with the Tig, I have made some with the oxy in the past. If you get yourself a #6 tip the oxy works well. Tig worked well also. Was down to about 15 amps for most of it.
Cheers Neil
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It was 786mm
How hard are you going to rev it ? That TL will give peak power at around 13,000 rpm.
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Only playing with you. 1020mm
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That will still be a tad peaky 1150mm would be peak at 8500rpm
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I worked it out for 8000rpm peak power. The cylinder has fairly long duration on exhaust port.
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I worked it out for 8000rpm peak power. The cylinder has fairly long duration on exhaust port.
Did you also modify the ports?
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Yes the cylinder has been modified.
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I worked it out for 8000rpm peak power. The cylinder has fairly long duration on exhaust port.
Port timing is irrelevant the pipe decides when peak power is.
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Yes I understand that, but don't you use exhaust timing to work out tuned length. If you do not now the exhaust duration how can you work out a length for pipe. What formula do you use Lozza?
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bought an IT400 motor from a wreckers many moons ago & fitted into a DT250 monoshock frame to go vmx-ing, used a pipe that should have been ideal off something like a 400-465 it or yz but was terrible [all top end, dangerously high rpm for an old shitta]. Found someone had-had a good play & it had 192 degrees exhaust duration so in desperation i added 100mm to header pipe [took a guess as couldn't find my 'graham bell' book] & transformed it luckily. [pages all fell out of both my graham bell 2 stroke & 4 stroke books in the end].
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After a few initial dramas I finally got a decent ride on it today. Power seems good, with a good strong surge. May try and lighten the IT flywheel a little bit. But other than a bit of fiddling i think it is ready to race.
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It certainly looks ready. Fantastic job buddy. Now pull your finger out and do the 465 before them gears rust away.
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That looks great 8) i envy talented people who can build a bike like that and even design and build their own chambers :)
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10 out of 10 for our effort on the pipe. Hope it works just like it looks.
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Bike is for sale if anybody is interested. $3500. Has cartridge emulators, modern piston and valving in rear shock, new fork and shock springs, new bearings and bushes, V force reeds, Power flow Cylinder { ported by Bruce Woodley), new Rims and Tyres, New rear spokes and rezinced front, new tyres, new handle bars and controls, new brake pads. Motor is 1 ride old. New chain and sprockets.
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just looking at the fork internals , looks like E model damper rods?