OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Bike Talk => Topic started by: GMC on October 13, 2012, 01:39:14 pm
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Lemons, most of us would have had something we consider a lemon, sometimes for logical reasons, sometimes illogical reasons. We can develop great expectations of a bike only to suffer a reality check once we have bought it.
Like a young child when they get their first set of running shoes, they will be ecstatic with excitement at the thought of putting these fantastic things on their feet, but the excitement soon turns to disappointment when they find they still have to put one foot in front of the other quite quickly in order to actually run.
Sometimes bad bikes can give us great fond memories of a certain time in our lives so we can forgive them their shortcomings.
The KLX 250 often makes the world’s worst bike lists. Mine gave me a lot of grief and gobbled huge amounts of money as I tried to make it go faster. It consistently broke spokes and I lost count of how many times I wore out the motor. Its final downfall was when the gearbox exploded, literally, most likely from way to many power shifts.
But despite all this I still have very fond memories of this bike. It made me a better rider as it taught me how to corner harder and to keep momentum in difficult spots. It also taught me how to be a mechanic as I had it apart so many times.
Of all the bikes I have owned I only consider 3 of them to be lemons.
77 DT400
It probably didn’t help that I longed for an XT500 but at 17 & 9 months the DT was all I can afford. It was okay at first with my new found freedom but when a mate bought an XT I came to realize how bad it was. The XT would consistently out drag the DT and always by a huge and easy margin. One road trip the DT went through 5 tanks of fuel while the XT only used 1 tank. How it could use so much fuel and still be gutless was beyond me. An attempt to lean it out by the bike shop resulted in a melted piston. It was good for sliding around corners on dirt roads but that is the only good thing I remember about it. I tried not to hold against it an altercation with a truck that put me in a wheelchair for 3 months. I did fix it and ride it again but it was now on borrowed time.
88 TT 350
I trail rode a 125 the year before and while that was great fun it was a bit tedious on long trailrides so I went for a 4 stroke for 88. The 350 seemed like a good thing, more power than an XR250 and more nimble than an XR600. It always seemed though that in Enduro’s the 600’s would go under me in corners and the 250’s would blow me away down the straights. It was an okay trailbike but I just couldn’t come to terms with it as a race bike. Never really felt comfortable with it. Cam chain jumped a tooth during the Mallee Rally and I lost interest in it after that.
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/A4DE/TT350-1.jpg)
Montesa Cota 304 (Late 80’s)
I once knew a girl that had to sell her car because it kept having accidents all the time. I was a lot like that with this bike.
Always had an interest in Trials and then a mate lent me his 242 for a couple of weeks. It felt bloody weird the first time I rode it but when I got used to it I amazed myself at the places I could go.
Had to have a Trials bike myself now. I want one and I want it now.
Could have got a deal on a demo Fantic but I didn’t know much about them at the time so I opted for the Montesa as I at least knew a little about them.
Dnfed every second Trial at first.
Chain dislodged itself and became stuck in the enclosed tube it runs in, the event was over before I could get it sorted.
While warming up at one event the countershaft sprocket broke in half. Could have borrowed a sprocket but the taper was a different size to the earlier models so I packed up and went home.
The flywheel would consistently shear the key and fall off. Tried all sorts of thing to keep it on, lapped it in, tried not to rev it too hard.
Had a box of spare keys in the toolbox but pushing it back to the tool box was a pain.
One practice trip it unhooked itself in the trailer and the handlebars punched a hole through the fuel tank of the next bike.
One mate still laughs out loud about the time I hit neutral while going up a hill. Bloody fastest I ever traveled on a bike was on this thing going backwards. I was amazed at how long I stayed upright for but that only allowed the velocity to build up higher. Malcolm Smith is able to do this maneuver with style and grace but not me. The coming to a stop at the bottom was quite ugly.
Traded it in on a Fantic a year later.
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/My%20bikes/Cota-304B.jpg)
What are your lemon stories?
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I once owned a Holden Camira wagon, nice looking car, but it was a true lemon, everything went wrong with that car a cost me a lot of money, it had to go., Torana sunbird where another.
As far as bikes, the bikes that I have owned have not lived up to my expectation, the best bikes, at I truly enjoyed racing was the Honda Elsinore 125 cr, Bultaco MK7 125, Montesa vr 250, Maico MC 250 , it was a joy to ride and my kawasaki KT250 trials bike.
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Lemons...all of them.
* Bultaco Lobito..... Every time I mention what a piece of shit this bike was I get inundated with hate emails by the 'el Clubo Bultaco' faithful so out of fear of physical reprisal I won't bother repeating my tales of woe with the little yellow monster. Search out my ADB piece on it.
*1970 Yamaha RT1-MX.....As much as I love these black beauties today, my yellow striped RT1MX kept me perpetually broke back in 1970. I bought the bike from touring car legend Ian 'Pete' Geohegan after it had tried to kill him on a trail ride with Kevin Bartlett (501 Maico). He'd purchased the RT1 in the USA and stripped it and imported it into Australia in the boot of what was to become his Mustang race car.
After graduating from the Bultaco I became drunk with horsepower, becoming Maroubra's own Seth Enslow predecesor, roosting and jumping over the Kurnell sandhills like Malcolm, Steve and Mert in On Any Sunday and pretending to be a speedway superstar on the Boat Harbour tidal beach flats. Unfortunately RT1's, sand and BP Zoom 2 stroke fuel weren't a great combo and before long the bike suffered the first of a number of nip ups, the worst happening 2/3 of the way up an almost vertical (in my mind anyway) dune. Somehow, on the ensuing tumble to the bottom my foot got caught between the back wheel and the swingarm and the bike flung me around like I was a rag doll stuck in the spokes. I was so far into the dunes with my ankle still stuck in the swingarm, nobody could find me for an hour or so until a young couple who were obviously in the dunes for some open air nookie found me. Another three hours passed before the police rescue squad finally got to me in their Land rover. After removing the rear wheel to get my broken ankle out they took me to hospital with some severe naughty boy..motorcycles are dangerous lectures along the way. Apparently my mates had a shit of a time getting the bike out too.....but I digress.
For some reason the big Yammy loved eating ignition side crank bearings to the point that it ate two right side crank cases (you could buy them over the counter), it devoured swingarm bushes and steering head bearings and shock absorbers lasted a couple of months tops. In the end I gave up, took out a loan and bought the 350 square barrel Maico that I still own today. Looking back, everything that went wrong with the bike was down to big revs, an inadequate paper air filter and sand, a bad combo. If I'd have treated the bike like I treated the beloved Maico (only one trip to Kurnell ever) I'd have much better memories of that bike. As with Geoffs KLX 250 the RT1-MX taught me some good lessons about maintenance, sand proofing and most of all, how to build an engine.
* 1972 Maico MC250...... I owned a 1972 Maico 250 radial that was, for some reason we never ever discovered, incredibly slow even by slow Maico 250 standards. I tried everything...Mikuni carb, Gary Treadwell ports, methanol...no matter what I did it was still the slowest 250 Maico in our club by a long shot. Even importer Blair Harley agreed that it was a slow poke after he and Per Klitland did some laps of Nepean on it. I sold it to a fellow club member who raced it once and quickly got rid of it for the same reason I did.
I once owned a Holden Camira wagon, nice looking car, but it was a true lemon, everything went wrong with that car a cost me a lot of money, it had to go., Torana sunbird where another
Jeez Dave.....you picked two of the worst cars ever made.....now let me guess, you also owned a Sigma as well. Am I right? ;D
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Again not a bike but a Lemon all the same.
Morris Marina van.
Every other bad car I can think of has at least one redeeming feature, good brakes, easy clutch, nice gear change etc.
This car had nothing, spongy ineffective brakes, light switch clutch, heavy accelerator, vague steering, vague gear positions and and gear lever that regularly pulled out when you tried to get into reverse.
I suppose it's only good point was that it simply would not die.
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VA Montesa 125
One of the sexiest bikes ever made but owning it and to keep it running was akin to driving down the road throwing away $50.00 notes out the window.
I should have just put it to the pool room and left it there.
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"Uncle" Firko the story behind your RT 1 whilst painful for you is the funniest thing I have read all year.Thanks. ; ;D
My top lemons
Modern bike
2001 KTM 400EXC when it went was a great bike but it blew a starter gear on its maiden ride in the Watagans and from then on was an unreliable bucket of puss.
Vmx bike the worst would have to be ....... Wait for it I have only owned Suzukis so no issues..... Then again that 1984 rm 125E I brought from a guy in Sussex Inlet was a pile of crap,I suspect that it was rebuilt with Honda parts.
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My wife tell's me she married a LEMON.....
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My wife tell's me she married a LEMON.....
Remind her that she's one too, now....... :P
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I wouldn't dare say that to Mutch he craps bigger than me
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Wish I kept my lemons.
Sold my orange Leyland P76 (inherited from a deceased parent) in imacculate condition other than it couldn't drive more than 15 mins without it overheating. Pre coolant days and all alloy v8 motors.
Bought a Cole-Elstar from Don Stafford, trouble from the star. Ignition 180 degrees out, didn't seem quick compared to the Jawa. Sold it and replaced it with the Godden- wessie which I am presently restoring.
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If only we could get amongst a couple of lemons ;D
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I have one now! :-* An 84 CR 250 Re Honda. As much as it pains me to say it. This thing is a piece of shite. I love my Hondas but nothing should be this hard to keep on the track >:(
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If only we could get amongst a couple of lemons ;D
Yes I'm partial to a bit of sushi
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1992 wr 200, Looked fast and ahead of it's time, but was in reality a slow, heavy, poorley suspended, underbraked, wide P.O.S.
Good bye, Good riddance
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Mark, I only owned a Camira, near owned a sigma or sunbird, I owned a Torana which had a 173 engine, one the best cars I owned was a EH Holden with low milage and the rear seat had never had a person sitting on it, it was layed down from new until the day l bought it off the fellow. the engine was a 149 grey engine.
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My wife tell's me she married a LEMON.....
Yeah a WILD LEMON, bring on next season, Thems fighten words. :D
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Out of all the dungers and half decent (cars and bikes) I've owned I can't think of any that were lemons. This included an '80 Sigma auto which was ultra reliable. Even after drowning in flood waters twice it never missed a beat nor used any oil between changes. Just lucky guess ;)
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the engine was a 149 grey engine.
I thought the venerable old GREY motor only came in two sizes - 132.5 & 138?
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one the best cars I owned was a EH Holden with low milage and the rear seat had never had a person sitting on it, it was layed down from new until the day l bought it off the fellow. the engine was a 149 grey engine
Dave, the 149 was a red motor...unless someone painted yours grey, or the car was actually an EJ. ::)
My lemon cars are many and varied, the most memorable being a bright yellow 1954 Vanguard Spacemaster Deluxe that I bought for $5 ( yes five dollars)while my FJ was undergoing a back to the metal paint job. There wasn't a moving part on that car that wasn't retarded in some way. The lights would come on and off whenever they felt like it, day or night and the speedo read 60mph barely off idle and then the needle would go to 90mph and stay there, no matter how fast you were actually going (or stopped) until you tapped it with something hard. For some reason the previous owner had removed the starter motor altogether so I had to start it with the crank handle which wasn't the problem you'd asume as the big long stroke 4 cylinder had no compression to speak of. Even the valve radio had a mind of it's own, picking up only the horse racing station 2KY and some bizarre community station that seemed OK during the day but after midnight it became the outlet for every right wing facist and born again christian movement in Sydney. Despite the old Spacemasters many quirks, we has an absolute hoot in her for the 6 months I owned her. When I got my FJ holden back I sold it to a mate who let the team down by fitting a starter motor and fixing the light switch. It was never as much fun under his ownership. ;D
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My wife tell's me she married a LEMON.....
Remind her that she's one too, now....... :P
??? Why ... because she's been sucking a lemon she's become one?
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Yamaha fans aint gunna like this but I had a love hate, more hated relationship with my 1983 IT250K I reckon I spent more time pushing it than riding it, some days it burnt out pulser coils others the source coils and at a feirce rate reckon i had at least 5 rides in a row where it let me get a fair way from the car and then died, but im still a yamaha bloke, own 2 at present road bike one been very good to me over the years of ownership 75000km not a spanner laid on it except the sump plug, havent had the earlier rt360 long enough to form an opinion yet but seems ok.
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Lemons...all of them.
* Bultaco Lobito..... Every time I mention what a piece of shit this bike was I get inundated with hate emails by the 'el Clubo Bultaco' faithful so out of fear of physical reprisal I won't bother repeating my tales of woe with the little yellow monster. Search out my ADB piece on it.
*1970 Yamaha RT1-MX.....As much as I love these black beauties today, my yellow striped RT1MX kept me perpetually broke back in 1970. I bought the bike from touring car legend Ian 'Pete' Geohegan after it had tried to kill him on a trail ride with Kevin Bartlett (501 Maico). He'd purchased the RT1 in the USA and stripped it and imported it into Australia in the boot of what was to become his Mustang race car.
After graduating from the Bultaco I became drunk with horsepower, becoming Maroubra's own Seth Enslow predecesor, roosting and jumping over the Kurnell sandhills like Malcolm, Steve and Mert in On Any Sunday and pretending to be a speedway superstar on the Boat Harbour tidal beach flats. Unfortunately RT1's, sand and BP Zoom 2 stroke fuel weren't a great combo and before long the bike suffered the first of a number of nip ups, the worst happening 2/3 of the way up an almost vertical (in my mind anyway) dune. Somehow, on the ensuing tumble to the bottom my foot got caught between the back wheel and the swingarm and the bike flung me around like I was a rag doll stuck in the spokes. I was so far into the dunes with my ankle still stuck in the swingarm, nobody could find me for an hour or so until a young couple who were obviously in the dunes for some open air nookie found me. Another three hours passed before the police rescue squad finally got to me in their Land rover. After removing the rear wheel to get my broken ankle out they took me to hospital with some severe naughty boy..motorcycles are dangerous lectures along the way. Apparently my mates had a shit of a time getting the bike out too.....but I digress.
For some reason the big Yammy loved eating ignition side crank bearings to the point that it ate two right side crank cases (you could buy them over the counter), it devoured swingarm bushes and steering head bearings and shock absorbers lasted a couple of months tops. In the end I gave up, took out a loan and bought the 350 square barrel Maico that I still own today. Looking back, everything that went wrong with the bike was down to big revs, an inadequate paper air filter and sand, a bad combo. If I'd have treated the bike like I treated the beloved Maico (only one trip to Kurnell ever) I'd have much better memories of that bike. As with Geoffs KLX 250 the RT1-MX taught me some good lessons about maintenance, sand proofing and most of all, how to build an engine.
* 1972 Maico MC250...... I owned a 1972 Maico 250 radial that was, for some reason we never ever discovered, incredibly slow even by slow Maico 250 standards. I tried everything...Mikuni carb, Gary Treadwell ports, methanol...no matter what I did it was still the slowest 250 Maico in our club by a long shot. Even importer Blair Harley agreed that it was a slow poke after he and Per Klitland did some laps of Nepean on it. I sold it to a fellow club member who raced it once and quickly got rid of it for the same reason I did.
I once owned a Holden Camira wagon, nice looking car, but it was a true lemon, everything went wrong with that car a cost me a lot of money, it had to go., Torana sunbird where another
Jeez Dave.....you picked two of the worst cars ever made.....now let me guess, you also owned a Sigma as well. Am I right? ;D
what a great story well done Firko.To me the moral of the story is that if you need a part that you think will take two weeks to arrive from Japan and they have it in stock ,then its a sly admission the japs have made a mistake and they are trying to get out of a recall on there bike.Sounds cynical but true.
I had a xr350 RF that i replaced the fourth and Second gears in it four times over a ten year periode and every time the case hardning had perished on the gears and of course they had them in stock every time i needed them.I ran a magnetic sump plug to see the tell tail signs to know when to pull it down.I was also amused to find that XR250 Re to RF had a major problem with the rubber intake manifold.Because the bike ran so hot ,the rubber on the manifold would go hard and lift from the alloy base causeing air to leak into the intake causing the bike to run lean and even more hotter than before, then this would cause the head to crack between the exhaust valve and spark plug .You could buy these manifolds of the shelf but here's the thing, you could also buy a manifold with a bakerlite insert if you knew about it of the shelf as well and if you didn't know this. you would go around in circles with the same problem for years.
If this problem was in a German made car ,they world have been recalled in a heart beat.
>:(
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did stewart have a thought on "lemons"
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The Holden was a EJ model not a EH. my mistake, anyway it was a good old bomb.
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there were 138 red motors too (as used in LC-LJ Torana) ;)
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then this would cause the head to crack between the exhaust valve and spark plug
My mate ace TIG welder Chris Ellis had an almost full time job welding up the cracks in XR Honda heads back in the day. He also did 99% of the 'big fin' conversions for GB's XR's Only which eased the overheating problem a little but not totally.
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Tm400 only good thing about it always shitting itself in some unbelievable way, was I stopped me riding the beastly demonic possessed killer.... ( How on earth could it have been so BAD when all the TM125 we have had were pure fun reliable treasures??
Honda early XL175, totally gutless ,bits kept falling off (like the swing arm whilst going down hill on made road! Yes the nut and locking pin were still in the broken shaft!) electrics must have been Prince of Darkness (Lucas) leftover offal. Rubber front forks that at best nearly held the front wheel straight, shit brittle camshaft and rockers that ran in melted butter bearings, and many standard XL175 kick-starter shafts that snapped as soon as you lifted your leg to try and coax the little pus bucket into it's feeble facsimile of life.
Have briefly (very!!!) owned both a Morris 1100 and a Lada at times.....
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Honda early XL175, totally gutless ,bits kept falling off (like the swing arm whilst going down hill made road and yes the nut and locking pin were still in the broken shaft!) electrics must have been Prince of Darkness (Lucas) leftover offal. Rubber front forks that at best nearly held the front wheel straight, shit brittle camshaft and rockers that ran in melted butter bearings, and many standard XL175 kick-starter shafts that snapped as soon as you lifted your leg to try and coax the little puss bucket into it's feeble facsimile of life.
Yeap :D That about sums it up ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :D How could something that looked so good, be so completely f**ked ;D
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Remember those Gemini 50's in the 70s ? Mate had one. Fast little two stroke. I had a honda DAX. The Gemini broken down almost every ride. Snapped frames and broke gears were common. Great when it was going. Very fast.
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I had a 84 KTM 250 gs it was aa awsome bike to ride when going, but trying to keep it going was near impossible I cannot remember ever putting chain or sprockets on it but i can remember putting 2 clutch covers on it as they coroded out so quick 2 ignitions and the rear WP shock rebuils twice, once with a new shaft and a clutch.
Its been 25 years since that bike and I know there reliability are a bit better now but a KTM will never grace my shed, new or old, oh well maybe a 495.
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My one and only KTM. A 1990 250 GS (bought new).
You'd think something that broke down so often might have been at the expense of some performance.
It wasn't..... :(
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OK to sum up my younger life's ulcer inducers ,early Taiwanese minibikes, Honda XL175, most Hodakas (remember I have owned over 50 of them so psssst to your horror!) anything from Mexico, the Iron Curtain block, Italy, Austria and Pommieland were predominately reliability yellow citrus...
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My job is a lemon ::) I put a lot into it and don,t get much in return. Jimson
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Jimson I assume you mean by above you get squeezed a lot and just left with a bitter taste in ya mouth... ;)
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Honda XR400. The XR400 craze was in full swing back in 97, everyone had one and i got sucked up into it. Everyone elses was relieble except mine. It kept using oil. 4 rebuilds later it was still doing it. Tried genuine, several aftermarket pistons etc. To add insult i was racing it in the Condo 750, last competitive section on Sunday, running mid field it sucked in the lower part of the choke butterfly. Instant stop, DNF. Off loaded it after that and replaced it with the most relieble bike ever built, TTR250. If one were to keep and XR400 long enough the gearbox would eventully crap itself as well.
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My 2008 TM250. Power delivery like a 1970s 125 MXer, footpegs too high, twitchy handling, and rings that last 25~30 hours before they snag on the exhaust port and destroy the barrel (didn't happen to me, but did happen to its current owner). Brakes were unremarkable too.
I stuck with it for a while, but the death blow came on the day I rode it back to back with my 94 YZ250 - despite the TM's better brakes, ergos [apart from the footpegs] and suspension, the old Yamaha was both faster and easier to ride, thanks to its better motor and handling....
The '03 GasGas200 was a bit of a shitbox - paid too much, and then had to give it a full rebuild etc. But it's been sweet since then, so I don't really consider it a lemon.
I guess I've been lucky overall - I've owned an XL175, YZ125L, Alfa Romeo Alfetta, numerous rotaries, and plenty of other supposed lemons and none of them have bitten me.
JD/JE Camiras were actually pretty good cars. Holden fixed the many problems of the JAs, but never properly addressed the stigma.
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I'll go with Dirt pilot, I bought a brand new XR400 when they first came out (beleived all the American hype and bullshit)...worst bike I have ever owned/riden...spent a sqillion on it and still crashed my brains out....especially going downhills....after 2 years I sold it but by then people realised they where just tarted up farm bikes and they where worth $2.50.....It still scares my memory (btw...old mate that bought it blew the gearbox).
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Ah yes, modern bikes. I had forgotten about them when I wrote my thesis. Suppressed memory I guess.
After being inbetween bikes for too many years due to the mortgage marriage kid’s disease I made the jump back into bikes with a secondhand 2000 model KTM 300 in 03
I had already collected a few vintage bikes but all needed work and money so I decided that I would be best spending my money on a modern trailbike. Something that I could just jump on and ride, be it a trailride, club Enduro or even a club MX and the 300 seemed like a good bike on paper and this one looked very much like a ‘little use’ bike.
Second short casual ride here at home and the swingarm broke in half. Sheared clean through just in front of the axle slot. It was handling weird at the time and I couldn’t put my finger on what was wrong. Kept stopping to see if the tyres were flat. Thought I had lost my mojo from not riding enough and so I parked it for the day. It was then that I noticed the broken arm. Lucky I didn’t try any jumps as it probably would have broken the other side and the result I’m sure would have been ugly.
Could have welded it but it’s not that wise to just do a butt weld.
Ideally I would have needed to get an axle end machined up and then I would have needed to do both sides so it didn’t look odd.
It became easier to just buy another arm and Boltons did me a deal on one.
Next thing the cows got out so I jumped on the KTM to round them up from 2 K’s down the road and head them home. Would have been easier to herd chooks. So I’m riding around in a neighbors paddock at night in long wet grass trying to get these stupid things to head through the gate and I noticed the KTM wasn’t running very good, but it would load up when I rode around slowly with my son so I didn’t think too much of it. Turned out the drain screw decided to fall out of the water pump. As near as I can figure I must have ridden it for over an hour with no water. Turned it off and it kept running. Plug must have been glowing.
I checked to see if the engine No. had 666 in it but it didn’t.
I could have lived with this and the maxed out credit card that it caused but it was such a horrible motor.
It was god almighty fast in a straight line but on single track it was a peaky handful. I’ve ridden later model 300’s that all seem to have great motors but the 2000 model was a pig.
I thought about trying to tame it somehow but the only reason I bought it in the first place was because I wanted something that I didn’t need to work on so I eventually moved it on.
Fair dinkum, I enjoy riding my KDX175 so much more than I ever enjoyed riding that KTM