OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Introductions => Topic started by: higgi183 on October 04, 2012, 12:31:21 am
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Hello , my name is Simon and I'm from the UK, I've been riding a Cheney Goldstar in Pre 65 mx since the club started back in the early 80s, sore the thread on the net about the lost light weight Cheney Goldstars and thought this could be interesting . Look forward to meeting like minded people.
Thanks
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Welcome Simon
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Hi John, many thanks
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Yeah Simon, welcome on board. Have you got any photos of your Cheney? I've got a Cheney Yamaha myself that wishes it was a Cheney Goldie!
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Cheney Goldstar, in VMX terms there can't be many bigger introductions.
Good to have you join our motley crew.
Cheers, Steve
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Hi Guys, I have to admit that computers and forums are all quite new to me so I think I may struggle a tad, I've just been reading on the tips section about adding photos and to be honest it was complete double dutch to me, I'll see if I can ask for some help from my geeky mates . Most of the photos are pre digital but I do have some of the rebuild which is now underway , the frame was repaired and straightened by Eric Cheney himself about 16 years ago and it's now going together.
Do I carry this conversation on here or do I start a new topic in general discussions guys, i now it may seem an odd thing to ask but as I said its all new to me .
Thanks Simon
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Hi guys, I'm going to try and post a couple of rebuild pics of the Cheney , if it works il see if I can post more pics and the history of the bike in maybe bike talk. (http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q791/higgi183/ozvmx/4f4c8d8890ce480938086b6184387375_zps2cecf30a.jpg)
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(http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q791/higgi183/ozvmx/439be0003e713d4d0de49151ec4fe430_zps3dd840d1.jpg)
Don't believe it, it seems to have worked , here's another one.
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very cool, looking forward to the upcoming pics and history
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My brothers cheney. Built by him in mid 60's then he reaquired it about 4-5 yrs ago and restored.
This is one of the first 4 frames Eric Cheney made, doesn't even have a serial number. Cases are magnesium and more that i can't remember.
He has all paperwork between himself and Eric from when he built it. Originally frame was painted but he had it nickel plated when he restored it and changed the original wheels to CZ wheels.
couple of his other bikes also
250 & 360 Twinpipers
Hope this works my first post with pics
Pics taken on Iphone so not great quality
Maurice
(http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y426/Maurice3743/goldstar_zpsb665e830.jpg)
(http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y426/Maurice3743/360twinpipe_zps4d5222cd.jpg)
(http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y426/Maurice3743/250twinpipe_zpsce5bff14.jpg)
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Hi Maurice, thanks for the pics , Cheney looks great as do the CZ's . Does your brother ride them because they all look immaculate . In our local vintage meets the 250 and 360 CZ are a very competitive bike.
I think what I'm going to do is start a new topic in bike talk about the history of my bike as much as I know rather than continue in the introduction section.
Many thanks
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Like the Goldstar, nice to welcome another Cheney owner, I have Cheney BSA and working on Cantilever Honda with leading link forks that should be special
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/IMAG0095.jpg)
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Hi Marc, is your Cheney a JBR that has been converted to maybe a Aberg spec, one of my work mates has a JBR that went back to Cheneys and was modified by Eric to the later Bernt Aberg spec bike, I think this was quite normal to have your bike updated.
Whatever the bike is it looks great and proberbly sounds better.
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Hey Simon, Wow, every one in the know would like to own any Goldie in any condition, form, or guisecheers pancho.
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Flowerpot Ben on this forum owns a similar Cheney Goldie to yours Simon. Here's my own Cheney Yamaha 360, sorry for the 2 stroke deviation :D
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/DSC_0133.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/DSC_0134.jpg)
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This is Jonesy's Cheney Matchless, a bike with a very interesting history.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/15Nov07089.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/15Nov07072.jpg)
l-r...Jonesy's Cheney Matchless and Black Betty, Firkos 350 Maico, DT1, PE400Z and Boyd and Stellings TM400
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I bought my Goldi in 1985 and my Dad thought I was completely nuts spending £900 on an old bike, the man I got it from new it was a Cheney but had no other information about it. As the pictures show it has a GP carb and a Lucas 2MTT magneto as fitted to Manx Nortons ,7Rs and G50s, it has road races cams and the Cheney mod taking oil from the pressure feed to the cams up to the rocker feed, when I spoke to Mr Cheney he said he carried out this mod to all his Goldstar mx bikes. The gearbox has scramble ratios and Timkin needle rollers on the lay shaft .
Back in 1996 I was riding the bike at a meeting near Aldershot when I was approached by this tall thin man who introduced himself as Eric Cheney , he asked me if it was my bike and did I know any of it's history which I said only that it was built by you, he then laid on his back and pointed to an old frame repair and said that it was carried out in Czechoslovakia during the 1963 Europeon championship . He said the bike was built for Keith Hickman , he said he built 3 in 1962, 1 for Jerry Scott which he new of its where abouts, 1 for Frank Underwood which he new where it was and 1 for Keith Hickman which untill that day he didnt know where it was.most of his bikes were sold through Ken Covels shop near Cambridge .
I asked him to put it all down on paper and send it to me which he did at a later date, the bike went back to his for major frame repairs in 1998, he could have made a new OIF frame cheaper than it cost to have my frame repaired but I wanted to retain the bikes originality . The job was done and it's now after many years going back together proberbly never to have its neck rung in anger again.
Hopefully the pictures will be clear because they are originally photos which I copied using my iPhone .
Thanks for reading my ramblings,
Simon(http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q791/higgi183/ozvmx/Cheney%20Goldstar/e4ec4190c158669d256dc39d103e37ac_zps1924e540.jpg)
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(http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q791/higgi183/ozvmx/Cheney%20Goldstar/9a89c0ee587ef1409a9648a4b858c823_zps0a44337a.jpg)
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(http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q791/higgi183/ozvmx/Cheney%20Goldstar/c65fb3ea7dee99724c2c262a3a4607ad_zps9a34d1b4.jpg)
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(http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q791/higgi183/ozvmx/Cheney%20Goldstar/ab77e5eee12c477e1cd6ce9cba989d02_zpsc216cdf4.jpg)
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(http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q791/higgi183/ozvmx/Cheney%20Goldstar/43b9094d41a271aea315ca1ee3b94995_zps92fe5dbd.jpg)
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(http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q791/higgi183/ozvmx/Cheney%20Goldstar/aa01890b773f619b104cdcf063d3bc69_zps434b72ce.jpg)
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What a great story Higgi, It's brilliant that you've opted to preserve the bike rather than over restore her. It'd be a shame to turn the old war horse into a total Garage Queen though, the public should see and hear these old bikes so why not take her out for the occasional low pressure parade lap or even a low pressure race or two?
You're lucky also to have those letters from Eric Cheney as he was notoriously unreliable with offering up such info. The Matchy Cheney in the post before yours has an equally as interesting past and when its owner asked Cheney for such a verification letter, he sent him a note saying that seeing that he recieves so many requests for bike verification he now charges 25 pounds for the privilege. Alan sent the old bugger the 25 quid and never heard another word from him ;D. Unfortunately he died not long after. Luckily the other people involved in the bikes history have been extremely forthcoming and we have enough good information to produce an interesting magazine piece on the bike and its history for a future VMX edition.
Here's the bike circa 1966 outside Westbury Motorcycles in the UK.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/CurtisWestbury.jpg)
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Well, this thread pops up on my radar (thanks Alison) just after posting a recent article. Great history Higgi and an interesting addition to the Cheney timeline.
(http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae59/CheneySachs/65-MayStrictlyforMen_Page_1.jpg)
(http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae59/CheneySachs/65-MayStrictlyforMen_Page_2.jpg)
(http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae59/CheneySachs/65-MayStrictlyforMen_Page_3.jpg)
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G'day higgi, great read! and Mark. I am interested to know about the clutch on the BSA gearbox. Does it use an original Beeza clutch or something else?
In the late '60's I raced a pretty fast highly modified B33 on dirt track using the gearbox from a duplex Beeza fitted with a Daytona gear set which gave no trouble, 'till the gears wore out and I fitted a standard set.
From then on I had continuous failures from the clutch hub which failed because the keyway in the clutch hub lined up with a spline slot and used to split.
Having no means (or know how) at that time I could not perform an effective mod.
So my question--what sort of clutch hub? Specially considering wider steps between gears in scrambles/motocross.
Cheers pancho.
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Wally, I wish I could inspire you you with my knowledge on such stuff but the truth is..... I haven't a clue ::). Frank Stanborough is your man for that kind of knowledge mate.
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The real answer was to fit an AMC g/box, but they were a bit scarce, wreckers price for the only one I found worked out at about 10 weeks tradesmans pay. Was'nt about to happen.
Thinking back,I should have used a pre unit Triumph box, I had found them to be strong.
cheers pancho.
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Morning Pancho, the clutch fitted to my Goldi is a Norton 3spring type with an alloy pressure plate which was standard fitment on Cheneys and from what I understand on most BSA's when used in competition . The main shaft is off a plunger BSA with a bolt up gearbox, the shaft has a spline on the end that the Norton clutch fits on to without any machining and the gears are all standard BSA B series gears.As you say the key slot is the weak point on the original shaft, hope this helps, shame your so far away , I have somewhere a shaft that I would photograph if I could find it but don't hold your breath.
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A few from the archives. Keith was on a Rickman in '64, nothing prior yet discovered on the Cheney.
(http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae59/CheneySachs/OxenbourneFarm1965-KeithHickman.jpg)
Oxenbourne Farm 1965
(http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae59/CheneySachs/BulbarrowHillDorset1965-KeithHickman.jpg)
Bulbarrow Hill Dorset 1965
(http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae59/CheneySachs/BulbarrowHill1965-TeamEricCheney.jpg)
Team Eric Cheney - Bulbarrow Hill Dorset 1965
(http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae59/CheneySachs/KeithHickman-OxenbourneFarm1966.jpg)
Oxenbourne Farm 1966
(http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae59/CheneySachs/0000340795.jpg)
Jerry Scott - Sittendorf 1965
(http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae59/CheneySachs/0000340794.jpg)
Jerry Scott - Sittendorf 1965
(http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae59/CheneySachs/0000248182.jpg)
Jerry Scott - Sittendorf 1965
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Lovely Pictures ,specially of Jerry Scott at Sittendorf, it's surprising where all these lovely photos keep coming from. Back in the mid 90s I saw at a meeting ( not being ridden but on show) a 1966 Cheney Goldstar that made mine look like a dinosaur , it had magnesium engine cases a blue frame and was finished to the highest standard, it was truly a beautiful machine and I can only assume it was a Jerry Scott bike.
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Hmm, Blue frame Higgi?
(http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae59/CheneySachs/bsa-cheney-IMG_2041.jpg)
(http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae59/CheneySachs/313461_252018071502468_100000828300445_655279_1180164321_n.jpg)
(http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae59/CheneySachs/a150596_3.jpg)
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Beautiful.
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Yeah, that's yummy. And interesting to see that being a "Jerry Scott Replica" he has the full-width AMC front hub with the fins machined off, just as Scott did. Nice.
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Morning Pancho, the clutch fitted to my Goldi is a Norton 3spring type with an alloy pressure plate which was standard fitment on Cheneys and from what I understand on most BSA's when used in competition . The main shaft is off a plunger BSA with a bolt up gearbox, the shaft has a spline on the end that the Norton clutch fits on to without any machining and the gears are all standard BSA B series gears.As you say the key slot is the weak point on the original shaft, hope this helps, shame your so far away , I have somewhere a shaft that I would photograph if I could find it but don't hold your breath.
Thanks Higgy wish I new that back in the day, those bits would have been fairly easy to source back then.
cheers Pancho.
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Another article acquired. Earliest Hickman photo in the collection, November 1966.
(http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae59/CheneySachs/1966HickmanCheney440BSA.jpg)
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Great photos. Keith Hickman was down here [in NZ] with John Burton in probably 1965 [at a guess], mates & i were on just converted cast iron B33's & the like & of course he made us all look like total novices. Was a good guy [as was John Burton--who gave us some laughs thinking back]. Keith, if i'm right, was only 19 then. [that was on the Cheney pre unit Goldy of course]--Burton on the unit T100 type Metisse. Thanks for the memory.
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I bought my Goldi in 1985 and my Dad thought I was completely nuts spending £900 on an old bike, the man I got it from new it was a Cheney but had no other information about it. As the pictures show it has a GP carb and a Lucas 2MTT magneto as fitted to Manx Nortons ,7Rs and G50s, it has road races cams and the Cheney mod taking oil from the pressure feed to the cams up to the rocker feed, when I spoke to Mr Cheney he said he carried out this mod to all his Goldstar mx bikes. The gearbox has scramble ratios and Timkin needle rollers on the lay shaft .
Back in 1996 I was riding the bike at a meeting near Aldershot when I was approached by this tall thin man who introduced himself as Eric Cheney , he asked me if it was my bike and did I know any of it's history which I said only that it was built by you, he then laid on his back and pointed to an old frame repair and said that it was carried out in Czechoslovakia during the 1963 Europeon championship . He said the bike was built for Keith Hickman , he said he built 3 in 1962, 1 for Jerry Scott which he new of its where abouts, 1 for Frank Underwood which he new where it was and 1 for Keith Hickman which untill that day he didnt know where it was.most of his bikes were sold through Ken Covels shop near Cambridge .
I asked him to put it all down on paper and send it to me which he did at a later date, the bike went back to his for major frame repairs in 1998, he could have made a new OIF frame cheaper than it cost to have my frame repaired but I wanted to retain the bikes originality . The job was done and it's now after many years going back together proberbly never to have its neck rung in anger again.
Hopefully the pictures will be clear because they are originally photos which I copied using my iPhone .
Thanks for reading my ramblings,
Simon(http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q791/higgi183/ozvmx/Cheney%20Goldstar/e4ec4190c158669d256dc39d103e37ac_zps1924e540.jpg)
I have the Frank Underwood bike
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Hmm, Blue frame Higgi?
(http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae59/CheneySachs/bsa-cheney-IMG_2041.jpg)
(http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae59/CheneySachs/313461_252018071502468_100000828300445_655279_1180164321_n.jpg)
(http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae59/CheneySachs/a150596_3.jpg)
mmmmm Goodwood Revival this year by the looks of it. Nice bike bikes everywhere!!!!!
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I see Frank Underwoods name mentioned, he was another international that Tim Gibbes bought down here in the [trying to think] mid-late 60's & was on a "Wasp" T100 pre unit [metisse looking] bike. Good guy too as were all the internationals over the years. Us young wanna be's thought they were gods. Hell i remember Dave Bickers demonstrating how to negotiate a difficult downhill blind jump & mucking it up but saved it just [360cz], we were sooo impressed & Jeff Smith [instructing] said-that's 'not' how to do it. Things you never forget aye!! [In NewZealand that was sorry]
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Jonesy's similar Cheney was being built by Eric for Chris Horsfield with a Matchless G50 GP engine but he picked up a works CZ ride and sold the unfinished bike less the G50 engine to Mike Hickin who commissioned a now forgotten grass tracker builder to finish it off using the unique Ariel Leader swingarm and fitted an ex works G85CS Matchy motor. Hickin not long after retired and sold the bike to Brian Curtis (father of the NVT HL Yamaha)who made further mods to it and raced it briefly before selling it to it's Aussie owner in 1966.
The history behind these old bikes is often as interesting as the bikes themselves.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/CurtisWestbury-1.jpg)
The bike for sale at Westbury Motorcycles in the UK circa 1966
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/CurtisGeelong.jpg)
Sitting in the backyard in Geelong, later in 1966.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/15Nov07089-1.jpg)
Forty four years later in 2010. The bike will return to racing for the first time in 30 years in 2013
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Firko my dads best mate owned that bike and the photo is in his back yard in Geelong sadly he's gone to ride with the big guy now. I showed dad the photo you put up and he had great memories of riding that bike back in the day said it was the one that got away he help deliver it to Sydney to its new owner but he didn t think it was to your mate jonesy he said who it was but I cant recall his name now. The bikes these blokes owned and let go between them makes me cry when they tell the old stories, if only they new, oh well they raced them loved doing it and moved on to next best thing as young blokes still do today.
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Mavman, the Geelong bloke and his brother sold the bike to Jim Scaysbrooks brother Peter who raced and won the very first vintage race in Oz on it back in the early 80's at Amaroo Pk, run in conjunction with a big international meeting. Jonesy bought it from Scaysbrook in about 1985.
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It made the old man smile to see it was still alive and about to used again.