OzVMX Forum

Clubroom => Bike Talk => Topic started by: mainline on September 28, 2012, 06:21:06 pm

Title: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: mainline on September 28, 2012, 06:21:06 pm
I would have thought Doug Henry on the YZM400, but no

(http://enduro360.smugmug.com/Bikes/KTM-540/DSC0900/882896894_9uqYS-L.jpg)

http://www.enduro360.com/2010/08/19/featured/ktm-supercross-the-bike-that-made-history/

Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: motomaniac on September 28, 2012, 06:26:53 pm
Interesting read but a bit off about Joel Smets being the only guy on a 4 stroke .
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: JohnnyO on September 28, 2012, 07:14:05 pm
He was probably in an earlier heat race than Henry so officially the KTM was the first 4 stroke to qualify. Henry won some races that year on the factory YZM but you can be sure that KTM was nowhere near the front... ;)
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: JohnnyO on September 28, 2012, 07:16:59 pm
Interesting read but a bit off about Joel Smets being the only guy on a 4 stroke .
Yeah Jacky Martens had already won the '93 world 500 title on a 4stroke Husky.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: BAHNZY on September 28, 2012, 08:35:29 pm
Around the same time here in Australia the ThumperNats were up an running and KTM's like this one were being run by the Castrol/KTM team with guys like Craig Anderson steering them. Whilst they wern't technically as good as the Husaberg, the KTM team had the best riders and were at the pointy end of every race. If i remember correctly the Husaberg riders were Vaughn Styles, supported by Suttos along with Andy Caldecott and Andy Haydon sponsored through the Caldecott shop and SA Plasterboard, but weren't technically a "factory" team. Of the rest of the bikes on offer, Honda battled with the XR400 until the XR650 came along and Michael Byrne gave it a fair shake, although steering a leopard tank on steroids must have been a challenge. Kawasaki had a crack with a KLR 650 but never got the right rider/reliability combination. There were a few DR350R's getting around until the DRZ400 came along and i remember a really trick DRZ450 running at the time with essentially a RM250-2T chassis and a carbon fibre fuel tank being punted by Darryl Huley. I don't  remember much of the Huskies, i guess cause the were a bit un-reliable. Of course the YZ400 was the bike to have and pretty much changed the sport.

One of the Castrol KTM 540's that looks identical to this one (less tank & air box) is owned by someone in the Latrobe Valley and we see it from time to time in he shop. It's still in its original livery with black anodised forks and FMF exhaust system.

Re the forks they refer to, i have a set of those Marzocchi forks and corresponding tripple clamps and they are/were a disaster and not much better than the WP Extremes which I also have a set off, both fitted to my motocross Husabergs and the bloody things leak oil just looking at them. For some reason the top guys that raced Finke on the big bore 2 strokes some years back loved the Marzocchi forks over the offerings from Honda & Kawasaki.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: ola_martin on September 28, 2012, 08:39:08 pm
They write about the US, not the GP's, there where many riders at the GP's with Husky and Husaberg thumpers. ( Smets also tried a couple of US Nationals.)
But I think Smail was one of very few in the US, I think the Husabergteam of Mike Young and Shaun Kalos tried some nationals also at that time, but don't know about SX. Pretty sure they never made the main anyway.

Those 3 rides together with WhiteBrosHonda's Spud Walters? made up the 4st. nationals those years.

I think the SX debut with Henry on the YZM was a year after this KTM.

Many years ago already, I might remember it wrong.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: JohnnyO on September 28, 2012, 09:04:00 pm
Henry rode the works 4 stroke in 97 and the production bike came out in 98.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: BAHNZY on September 28, 2012, 09:05:55 pm
At the world GP level, lets not forget the Vertemati before the company became VOR.

(http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii489/Darley04/a624fb0c5d92d6fdde9856b32e5450db.jpg)
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: BAHNZY on September 28, 2012, 09:08:28 pm
And the real motocross 4 strokes :D
Remember this is 1993

(http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii489/Darley04/2e258897bc83df2a7e533becfe006569.jpg)
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: BAHNZY on September 28, 2012, 09:10:19 pm
And of course the man himself.

(http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii489/Darley04/67f4bee81326f7ee5bc8d3429a096991.jpg)
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: BAHNZY on September 28, 2012, 09:11:16 pm
(http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii489/Darley04/e4a09e1e18bd4a5b7785652e80d3f971.jpg)
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: BAHNZY on September 28, 2012, 09:14:42 pm
And the bike that most "husabergites" consider to be the last true Husaberg motocross bike. The 2000 model.

(http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii489/Darley04/7ff7da5db0bb359a257841cba0c367f4.jpg)
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: JohnnyO on September 28, 2012, 09:18:19 pm
Bahnzy you're forgetting the Husky race team in the mid 90's thumper nats. Lyndon Heffernan won the series twice on Husky's against the KTM team which had Dave Armstrong and then Jeff Leisk before Ando.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: BAHNZY on September 28, 2012, 09:40:33 pm
Strange about the Husky team. I was at most of the southern state rounds but either I wasn't interested or didn't pay notice to the Husky guys. For a very short period of time I helped Stacy Alderman on a Husky 610 till he went back to his bad ways and they took the bike back from him.

I was lucky enough to be involved (in the distant background) with Jacky Martens when he was team manager for the Husky factory team at the time that they competed at the Aussie MX GP. Even then I still didn't warm to the brand, I guess I was already DNA'd with the Bergs by then.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: motomaniac on September 28, 2012, 09:51:23 pm
They write about the US, not the GP's, there where many riders at the GP's with Husky and Husaberg thumpers. ( Smets also tried a couple of US Nationals.)



Huh? read again :- "Joel Smets was campaigning practically the only true thumper race bike, the Husaberg, on the world GP scene. Here at home there was a burgeoning national four stroke mx series that was..."
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: JohnnyO on September 28, 2012, 10:14:07 pm
Strange about the Husky team. I was at most of the southern state rounds but either I wasn't interested or didn't pay notice to the Husky guys. For a very short period of time I helped Stacy Alderman on a Husky 610 till he went back to his bad ways and they took the bike back from him.

I was lucky enough to be involved (in the distant background) with Jacky Martens when he was team manager for the Husky factory team at the time that they competed at the Aussie MX GP. Even then I still didn't warm to the brand, I guess I was already DNA'd with the Bergs by then.
I always had an interest in Husky's and spent 5 years working in the national race team up til recently so I guess I took more notice than you. I went to a few of the early races with Dave Armstrong and he was beaten in the series by Heffo on the big TC610..
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: mainline on September 29, 2012, 06:20:40 am
Re the forks they refer to, i have a set of those Marzocchi forks and corresponding tripple clamps and they are/were a disaster and not much better than the WP Extremes which I also have a set off, both fitted to my motocross Husabergs and the bloody things leak oil just looking at them.

Funny you should mention that, I'm rebuilding a 97 ktm300 at the moment, and the new seals in both forks started leaking before I've even ridden the bike. I'm hoping that changing the acme brand seals I put in to All-Balls seals will fix the problem ???
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: Davey Crocket on September 29, 2012, 08:47:12 am
Who could not love those Bergs...that 98 Smets is on is my fav and I wish I never sold mine.....but I had to too get my 2000 model...which will never be for sale.....even Yamaha where impressed as they bought a 501 and a 400 and then proceeded to pull them apart and see what made them tick....then wha-laa....lets make a YZ400....I guess because they had pulled out of the 500 class many moons before, when they came back they copied the best (as they always do). JohnnyO is right about the Huskies....they where at the top here and on the GP stage....the Cunninghams where punting them around in the Thumper Nats and enduros along with a heep of fast guys. If you havent riden a Berg FC 600 or a Husky TC610 then you havent lived....any gear, any time will bring the biggest smile to your face....every time!!!....even the early Vertimaties used Berg engines and KTM where so impressed they bought the company. I still remember the last round of the Thumper Nats at Dargle in 98 (The T Nats where bigger than the Aussie Titles by then) when Darryl King and Joel Smets (#1 and#2 in the world) showed up and totally wiped/wipped  every bodies arses so bad....Aussie MX then realised how far off the pace they where and from then on have lifted the bar to be competitive in the US and GP's (although we havent had anybody for a while on the GP scene).
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: JohnnyO on September 29, 2012, 09:07:35 am
Davey i was riding the twinshock class at that '98 race at Dargle and the show that Darryl King and Smets put on was unbelievable. In one moto Smets crashed and Darryl slowed and dropped back through the pack waiting for Joel to catch up, then the 2 of them motored through the field of top Aussie pros and disappeared into the distance.
Darryl King was 2nd in the world that year and at his best on that big works Husky.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: Davey Crocket on September 29, 2012, 09:57:30 am
I thought it was Darryl who crashed.....gee there where alot of QLDer's there that weekend.....I still have my Tee shirt I got off Darryl that day....Husky history.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: motomaniac on September 29, 2012, 10:49:27 am
How many events did they do ? Must have been just before or after the ISDE that year.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: Davey Crocket on September 29, 2012, 11:14:26 am
One.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: zorroz on September 29, 2012, 12:30:05 pm
Works Huskies:

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/zorroz/a182385_1.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/zorroz/a177600_1.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/zorroz/a182384_3.jpg)
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: BAHNZY on September 29, 2012, 06:38:57 pm
Who could not love those Bergs...that 98 Smets is on is my fav and I wish I never sold mine.....but I had to too get my 2000 model...which will never be for sale

Kinda the same situation for me when I sold my 00 FC501/4 for my 04 FE550. Realising I'd made a mistake, some 7 years later I tracked it down and got it back to join the ex Caldecott 98 FC600 and the 99 FC501 in the shed. Bring on pre-2000 classes before I'm to old to race!
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: JohnnyO on September 29, 2012, 06:51:44 pm
Bahnzy you've got some good weapons there if ever there is pre 2000. The first Berg i rode was a FC600 around '96, it was sooooo fast!
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: BAHNZY on September 29, 2012, 07:36:09 pm
Most people that ride a late 90's FC600 don't think much of it till you tell them that you can actually open the throttle past 1/2 way. When the get back after giving the old girl some serious throttle they come back white and swear "never again". The way that a FC600 builds speed is like no other bike, other than perhaps a worked KX/CR 500. Whist the current crop of 450's match it in horsepower (and only just) they don't come close to the torque that these monsters put out. Whilst there are other MX bikes of the same vintage, with the same capacity, none way less than 100 kg's so the power/weight ratio and thay way it can move away from low speeds is incredible.

It has been proven time and time again that HP is only a small part of the total equation, hence why the 450's are commonplace as they are more manageable, even more so the 350cc machines on offer today. Even so it brings a smile to a HP junkies face :D
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: maico police on September 29, 2012, 08:02:10 pm
This has been a great thread. A turning point in motocross history. First of the real post 60's four stroke MXers..... 8)
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: BAHNZY on September 29, 2012, 08:29:12 pm
Whilst the early 90's Husaberg's started the trend, the late 90's bikes were the most reliable and rideable.
The 98 was the last model with the old engine, i.e. no mechanical oil pump, it used the reed valve system same as the Huskies. Chassis wise it used a WP combination of 50mm extremes up front and a rising rate linkage system out back.

The 99 used essentially the same engine as the 98 model but got a mechanical oil pump along with some other tweaks. The big change for the 99 model was the inclusion of the PDS rear suspension however the front end duties were still controlled by the 50mm WP extremes.

2000 was the launch of a completely new chassis (which continued basically unchanged through to he late 2000's) that saw the inclusion of a fully adjustable WP 43 USD unit with external spring preload adjustment. The bike also scored a titanium/inox ARROWS exhaust system along with items like a switchable ignition map and a Magura hydraulic clutch.

The achilles heel for the Husaberg's was the Dellorto carby and the SEM ignition system. Husaberg continued with this configuration right up to the 2004 model when they added a Kokusan digital ignition and Keihen carburettor. Whilst the SEM was terrible, the Dellorto was pretty good till it got wear in the slide and needle/needle jet then it was akin to taking out a house mortgage to fix it.


1998 FC600
(http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii489/Darley04/156facd070617c9fb4cb406fc66f0544.jpg)

1999 FC501
(http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii489/Darley04/ec46bb277dc338438a83c762470f7857.jpg)

2000 FC501
(http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii489/Darley04/c2c052c1bceb8af0f71762bebdadc300.jpg)
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: Davey Crocket on September 29, 2012, 08:45:55 pm
The other thing these bikes have is a huuuuge induction noise that would suck the tits off a porn star. Hey Bahnzy, my 501 was a prick to start if you stalled it so I put a hot start button/mechanisum off a 98 YZ400 Kehin carby....I drilled a hole in the intake manifold , sikaflexed a small pipe in and connected it to the hot start and its a diferent bike...stall it....pull the button and a couple of kicks later your roostin again. I would love to find my 98 and buy it back....the vin number was something like #0000023. Did that Smets replica that got stolen a few years ago ever turn up?
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: BAHNZY on September 29, 2012, 09:04:20 pm
Did that Smets replica that got stolen a few years ago ever turn up?

Haven't spoken to Darren for a while, but last we spoke he was convinced that it was gone for good in his mind. That particular bike wasn't a replica, it was the real deal, an ex race bike.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: BAHNZY on September 29, 2012, 09:16:45 pm
My 501 was a prick to start if you stalled it so I put a hot start button/mechanisum off a 98 YZ400 Kehin carby

My 501 had been updated with a Kehin off a KTM 520SX back in 2001 and cured all the starting and flat spot issues but bought with it a peaky/snappy power curve. It's currently undergoing a resto and will have a NOS Dellorto refitted along with a period correct akropovic exhaust system and thanks to another forum member a set of works 48mm WP units and factory HAAS wheel set.

My 99 somehow got a SPES exhaust with a Dellorto carb with a hot start which I think is one of those White Brothers kits that was popular back then.

On the 98, if it stalls mid race, park it and walk back to the pits unless you have a leg muscle grafted from a race horse.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: JohnnyO on September 29, 2012, 09:28:07 pm
Did that Smets replica that got stolen a few years ago ever turn up?

Haven't spoken to Darren for a while, but last we spoke he was convinced that it was gone for good in his mind. That particular bike wasn't a replica, it was the real deal, an ex race bike.

Was that the bike Smets raced at Dargle in '97 or the Broadford GP in 2001? I think Graeme Boyd had one of them a while back..
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: Davey Crocket on September 29, 2012, 09:39:50 pm
My 501 has works 48's in it with the bladders.....Johnny...Smets got stolen by KTM in 2000....I think the Smets works bike was bought in...something in the back of my mind remembers you could order the real deal in 98 and 3 came to Aussie....could be wrong. My 98 had the Spes exhaust and tall seat/cover....and your right...stall the farker and its all over.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: BAHNZY on September 29, 2012, 10:07:48 pm
Was that the bike Smets raced at Dargle in '97 or the Broadford GP in 2001? I think Graeme Boyd had one of them a while back..

I'm not sure what Joel raced at the ThumperNats as I didn't go to any of the interstate rounds other than Albury. At the Aussie GP's, the 2000 version had Smetts on the factory KTM 520SX. (Joel had finished up with the Husaberg team in 1999 finishing 3rd in the championship) The lone Husaberg rider at that GP was Matts Nillson (the current world FIM vets champ) on victorian Malcolm Watson's race plan FC600 with Mats own suspension, Matt was Swedish and was supported by the factory, at the same time was employed by Ohlins as a test rider for their motocross suspension.

In 2001 the Husaberg factory team came out with Jacky Martens as team principal with 3 riders, Matts Nillson, and two other riders (cant remember their names just now) with Smetts on the factory KTM team on board a KTM 540SXS
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: JohnnyO on September 29, 2012, 10:32:31 pm
I'd forgotten Smets was at KTM in 2000 and I was at the Broadford GP!
Pretty sure his '97 Berg stayed in Oz after Dargle and Graeme Boyd got it.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: Davey Crocket on September 29, 2012, 10:37:13 pm
At the thumper Nats (98 I think), Smets bought his factory forks and shock and road a bog stock FC600 (all be it with a broken finger taped up).....Kingy had his full blown Works TC610 bought over by Hans Applegreen...always wondered if he took that bike back to NZ....I'll find out. Ian Cunningham rode a FC600 at the 2000 GP I think or was it 01....flipped it on the start line....took nearly a whole lap to get it started. The current FIM World Vets Champ is Darryl King btw.....that makes 5 Kiwi MX World Champs. Willie ? was one of the other riders in 01. Had a good chat to Jackie Martens at the GP....they where pissed with KTM as every idea and new inovation they came up with KTM took it off them...he said they would come to Sweeden every week and nosey around...in the end they would hide stuff.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: BAHNZY on September 29, 2012, 10:39:32 pm
something in the back of my mind remembers you could order the real deal in 98 and 3 came to Aussie....could be wrong.

According to some of the ex Husaberg employees, there was a "special" replica built to celebrate the 1998 world championship. Essentially it was a standard bike fitted with;
- SPES exhaust, which was an accessory, albeit expensive one at the time.
- A different color frame. Black in place of silver
- WP 40mm USD forks.
- Ohlins shock
- Bold new graphics  ;D

Over the years I have been able to get the above parts so I can build a replica of a replica. ;D
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: Davey Crocket on September 29, 2012, 10:41:31 pm
98 frames where blue ;D
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: BAHNZY on September 29, 2012, 10:43:12 pm
That's it, Willy van Wessell and Marcel van Drunnen.
Perhaps Mats was MX GP vets champion last year. Best I check, time gets away!
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: BAHNZY on September 29, 2012, 10:46:20 pm
98 frames where blue ;D

I stand corrected.... oops.  ::)
Silver was 1999. Should have checked my own bikes in the pics earlier on.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: Davey Crocket on September 29, 2012, 10:47:54 pm
Faark, we remember some bullshit......pity we cant make money out of it!! ;D...Mats was a nice guy...
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: BAHNZY on September 29, 2012, 11:04:53 pm
Had a good chat to Jackie Martens at the GP....they where pissed with KTM as every idea and new inovation they came up with KTM took it off them...he said they would come to Sweeden every week and nosey around...in the end they would hide stuff.

I worked (if that's what you call it) with Jacky at the 01 GP and found home to be demanding, tough, but fair. van Wessell & van Drunnen were muppets that didn't know the front end of a bike from the rear. Whilst they could ride they had no idea of what was required for bike set up. I remember standing beside Jacky in the mechanics area taking notes from him on what was needed on the bikes when free practice finished. Jacky would ask the if the bike needed anything and they would say "no, all good". Jacky would shrug his shoulders mumble something then go about changing the suspension. At the same GP Jacky could see that his good mate Johan Boonen was struggling as he had no transport, support at the track and the like. Jacky asked if I could assist Johan for the rest of the weekend. Johan was awesome and super nice bloke. I remember asking him if I could get him to have a jersey signed by Smetts after the riding had finished. He said no problems, lets go.  He dragged me into the KTM factory pit, introduced me to King, Johansen, Dobb's and of course Smetts and demanded that hey all drop everything and sign my jersey, all in jest. Some of most prized bike pieces are the VIP and mechanics area pass from the GP and the jersey signed by all the riders. In the down time we used to sit and talk with Matts about anything other than bikes and found him to be a great guy.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: Nathan S on September 29, 2012, 11:07:34 pm
Re the forks they refer to, i have a set of those Marzocchi forks and corresponding tripple clamps and they are/were a disaster and not much better than the WP Extremes which I also have a set off, both fitted to my motocross Husabergs and the bloody things leak oil just looking at them.

Funny you should mention that, I'm rebuilding a 97 ktm300 at the moment, and the new seals in both forks started leaking before I've even ridden the bike. I'm hoping that changing the acme brand seals I put in to All-Balls seals will fix the problem ???

The Marzocchi Magnums are excellent forks, with sloppy machining tolerances. They work WAY better than the USDs of the era - as I've said before, sub-45mm USDs are fundamentally flawed and suffer from bush bind.

To keep seals in them:
1. Use good seals, with fresh dust wipers.
2. Get the bushes right. New is not any assurance of right - most need shimming nowdays.
3. Put fork boots on.
4. If its all too much, I'll happily swap you for a pair of any early~mid 90s jap production USDs that you want...
;)

Now back to the original topic...
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: Davey Crocket on September 29, 2012, 11:11:42 pm
I got a hat off Mats.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: ola_martin on September 30, 2012, 05:23:09 am


According to some of the ex Husaberg employees, there was a "special" replica built to celebrate the 1998 world championship. Essentially it was a standard bike fitted with;
- SPES exhaust, which was an accessory, albeit expensive one at the time.
- A different color frame. Black in place of silver
- WP 40mm USD forks.
- Ohlins shock
- Bold new graphics  ;D

Over the years I have been able to get the above parts so I can build a replica of a replica. ;D
[/quote]

I had a new one in 99, and we still have a rebuildt one at work, think I have the 99 folder for the replica somewhere, with photo and list of differences from stock FC600, will have a look and scan for you if I find it.

I've worked with bergs for 19 years, and had/raced about 20 of them..
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: Davey Crocket on September 30, 2012, 08:10:33 am
That would be cool ola. When I spoke to Willie in 01 he said they had been testing a reverse head and EFI....had to hide them from the orange police. Its amazing how many Berger philles are on here....good to see. Its a shame that the 2013's are tarted up oranges. Did anybody buy all those Berger parts on evilbay 6 months ago from Caldicotts?
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: 09.0 on September 30, 2012, 08:50:06 am
Great thread.
I too had a 2000 model Husaberg. Hopefully it may surface again in the future for me. Gave it away in the end. Gives me the shits as to my vertemati being stolen. Another trick as shit bike and a low hour one to boot. I just bought the next model which was the first vor as its black. Has the bolt together frame like the vertemati
. My 2000 berg had a change of colour with the '01 yellow tank and yellow frame.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: JohnnyO on September 30, 2012, 09:04:15 am
One of the Belgians Johan Boonan rode a Berg in the Evo (pre 90) des Nations race at Farleigh this year and ran up front with Hughes and DeWitt. Only 4stroke in the race from what i can see.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: mainline on September 30, 2012, 09:16:03 am
Re the forks they refer to, i have a set of those Marzocchi forks and corresponding tripple clamps and they are/were a disaster and not much better than the WP Extremes which I also have a set off, both fitted to my motocross Husabergs and the bloody things leak oil just looking at them.

Funny you should mention that, I'm rebuilding a 97 ktm300 at the moment, and the new seals in both forks started leaking before I've even ridden the bike. I'm hoping that changing the acme brand seals I put in to All-Balls seals will fix the problem ???

The Marzocchi Magnums are excellent forks, with sloppy machining tolerances. They work WAY better than the USDs of the era - as I've said before, sub-45mm USDs are fundamentally flawed and suffer from bush bind.

To keep seals in them:
1. Use good seals, with fresh dust wipers.
2. Get the bushes right. New is not any assurance of right - most need shimming nowdays.
3. Put fork boots on.
4. If its all too much, I'll happily swap you for a pair of any early~mid 90s jap production USDs that you want...
;)

Now back to the original topic...

Thanks, I'll see how they go this time around. I'm a bit over the bike to be honest, way harder to fix up a newish bike than an old one. I'm going to get it running and see if I like it before I keep spending money on it.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: 09.0 on September 30, 2012, 03:06:25 pm
(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/th_photo-28.jpg)

(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/photo-27.jpg)

(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/photo-29.jpg)
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: BAHNZY on September 30, 2012, 06:42:48 pm
And some more Vertemati.

(http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii489/Darley04/1030d846cb31738ae08a7b1584c8c983.jpg)

(http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii489/Darley04/4e5acd3dac5597c7e99592e9148ec4c5.jpg)

(http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii489/Darley04/d1a919e267aa36cce17bebdc6a0ddfbc.jpg)

(http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii489/Darley04/8b8132884806cf09fcac4c4d4ca6adf3.jpg)
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: BAHNZY on September 30, 2012, 06:49:54 pm
One of the Belgians Johan Boonan rode a Berg in the Evo (pre 90) des Nations race at Farleigh this year and ran up front with Hughes and DeWitt. Only 4stroke in the race from what i can see.

Be interesting to see what the model/spec was. The first production Husaberg was 1989, and from memory was a 500cc enduro model. Examples of the 89 model are vey rare and I only know of one, owned by a forum member on here.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: 09.0 on September 30, 2012, 07:02:43 pm
Thanks for the pics. Any idea what year models they are?
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: JohnnyO on September 30, 2012, 07:35:32 pm
(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/th_photo-28.jpg)

(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/photo-27.jpg)

(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/photo-29.jpg)
They look nearly the same.. Are they just a year apart?
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: Davey Crocket on September 30, 2012, 07:39:54 pm
Thats Smets in the 2nd photo....he rode for them before Husaberg and you can see the Berg motor.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: BAHNZY on September 30, 2012, 07:44:52 pm
Thanks for the pics. Any idea what year models they are?

Brad, the top 2 pics are of the bike Smett's rode in the world MX GP in 1994. He carried the no.3 from the 1993 season when he rode a Husaberg. In a weird twist he finished 3rd in 1994 on the Vertemati so the bikes would have to be 1994 models. He went back to Husaberg in 1995 and won the championship.

The pic of bike 22 is weird. The swingarm is of a completely different profile. My understanding is that Vertemati/VOR ran the same swingarm all the way through. Also there is a weird pick-up in the stator cover and conventional Marzocchi's forks are fitted in place of USD WP's.
What the hell the other one is, who knows, but I do know that they have a terrible choice in colours!
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: BAHNZY on September 30, 2012, 07:55:33 pm
Thats Smets in the 2nd photo....he rode for them before Husaberg and you can see the Berg motor.

Husaberg & Vertemati were essentially one in the same bike till the mid 90's coming out of the same manafacturing premises. This link gives an outline of what occurred.
http://www.vertemati.com/en/main/ (http://www.vertemati.com/en/main/)
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: JohnnyO on September 30, 2012, 08:16:29 pm
Thats Smets in the 2nd photo....he rode for them before Husaberg and you can see the Berg motor.

Husaberg & Vertemati were essentially one in the same bike till the mid 90's coming out of the same manafacturing premises. This link gives an outline of what occurred.
http://www.vertemati.com/en/main/ (http://www.vertemati.com/en/main/)
Interesting read although a little difficult to understand through translation. Those 4 strokes are cool bikes, coming out of little factories with a real works look about them.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: Davey Crocket on September 30, 2012, 08:21:20 pm
I agree, Husaberg had like 20 odd employees and built the whole bike....took on the big factories and beat then....you dont see much of that now....all the future bikes will soon be coming out of China.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: 09.0 on September 30, 2012, 08:59:26 pm
(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/th_photo-28.jpg)

(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/photo-27.jpg)

(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/photo-29.jpg)
They look nearly the same.. Are they just a year apart?
Certainly the next model. From what Bogaart told me two years apart but next model.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: 09.0 on September 30, 2012, 09:03:08 pm
Thanks for the pics. Any idea what year models they are?

Brad, the top 2 pics are of the bike Smett's rode in the world MX GP in 1994. He carried the no.3 from the 1993 season when he rode a Husaberg. In a weird twist he finished 3rd in 1994 on the Vertemati so the bikes would have to be 1994 models. He went back to Husaberg in 1995 and won the championship.

The pic of bike 22 is weird. The swingarm is of a completely different profile. My understanding is that Vertemati/VOR ran the same swingarm all the way through. Also there is a weird pick-up in the stator cover and conventional Marzocchi's forks are fitted in place of USD WP's.
What the hell the other one is, who knows, but I do know that they have a terrible choice in colours!
thanks for the info. Were any bikes sold in these years? I was of the understanding that the blue one I had was the first production model.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: ola_martin on October 02, 2012, 04:41:08 pm
That would be cool ola. When I spoke to Willie in 01 he said they had been testing a reverse head and EFI....had to hide them from the orange police. Its amazing how many Berger philles are on here....good to see. Its a shame that the 2013's are tarted up oranges. Did anybody buy all those Berger parts on evilbay 6 months ago from Caldicotts?

That bike did and still do exist, it had a enginelayout very similar to the new YZF450, was made in 98/99 it sat in a modified 97/98 frame, was kept away from the oranges in the private garage of one of the R&D engineers, was tested several hundred hours...
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: Davey Crocket on October 02, 2012, 06:14:17 pm
There you go....copied again....its a shame really because those people came from Husky oringinally and they built alot of great bikes over the years.....never scared to think outside the square.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: ola_martin on October 02, 2012, 06:36:21 pm
(http://api.ning.com/files/nGh40YkR0bKgzrEM82YLIZDSi5w*knoSjikFeMWb*AbJL848KsS758uosS7YijUxhlfWBhPgnt4x9jOydHT10PsSd*7eoEw4/edb336b5aa71c2334ab76d165VDeZq_pdfthumb.bmp?width=424&height=600)
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: ola_martin on October 02, 2012, 06:52:24 pm
This is the -98 replica.
We have one at work, it's kind of a replica of the replica. It has a original 98 replica frame, I built a 600 3-speed neutral at the bottom engine for it. Has the WP 50mm fork, SPES eshaust, bluehub wheels, technosel seat etc. Will get photos when I get my computer back.

I had a new replica in 99 (we got one each year) Same spesifications as in the folder, but the goldcoating on the fork and forkbrace was dropped before it was produced, it was a 4 speed beast. Had problems with it snapping the chain, couldn't use o-ring chain as the metal was too hard and brittle, non o-ring was ok as long as changed often.

Got the very first 2000 FC501 the year after, much better bike, went to the factory doors to pick it up, I had already ridden my bike the whole week when we went to the Swedish GP to see the blankets pulled off the new top secret bikes....
That bike broke every week that first half season, and about two weeks after something broke we got a letter from the factory saying that this thing needed to be modified, so they ran testing paralell with production.
Got a new -00 for the last half of the season, with no problems....
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: JohnnyO on October 03, 2012, 05:19:32 pm
The Berg that Johan Boonan rode at Farleigh 2012
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc374/JohnnyO31/Vintage%20mx%20bikes/Berg.jpg)
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: JohnnyO on October 03, 2012, 05:22:27 pm
Holeshot in the Evo(pre 90) race...
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc374/JohnnyO31/Vintage%20mx%20bikes/JohanBoonanBerg.jpg)
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: motomaniac on October 03, 2012, 05:40:07 pm
Great shots !
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: Davey Crocket on October 03, 2012, 05:55:43 pm
Thats cool JohnnyO.......beats talking about that other crap.....geez I'd love one for pre 90......I wonder how many 501's they made in 89?......now that would be a collectors bike for Vwalter.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: ola_martin on October 03, 2012, 05:56:44 pm
The Berg that Johan Boonan rode at Farleigh 2012
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc374/JohnnyO31/Vintage%20mx%20bikes/Berg.jpg)

And thats Ryno Huges on a ProCircuit KX500 behind him, so I guess it was pretty quick of the gate... ;D
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: 09.0 on October 03, 2012, 06:12:57 pm
Cool shots. Makes you wonder how many are around.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: BAHNZY on October 03, 2012, 10:40:58 pm
Thanks for the pics, awesome to see the old girl out and running at the pointy end.
Any one have an idea of the rules covering the class that Johan's bike ran in? I ask as that front end looks to be a WP USD unit nothing like what would have ever been fitted in the day.

Regarding early Bergs in general, I haven't seen a pre 1997/98 Berg for sale in Australia for a long time. When I bought my 98 FC600, 2 years ago, I had spent nearly 3 years looking for one. My 99 FC501 pretty fell in my lap, although I had to pay a bomb for it. For my 00 FC501/4 I spent nearly 5 years looking for it and paid too much for a bike that needed a complete restoration. The one advantage in all this time to find a bike is that you can search for and get the bling bits along the way. I was lucky enough to pick up a set of "special"  ;) 48mm WP forks, Ohlins shocks, SPES exhaust, HAAS hubs, Akropovic exhaust system, etc along the way for next to nothing cause I wasn't  desperate or specifically looking form them.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: JohnnyO on October 03, 2012, 10:51:38 pm
The class is Evo which is basically the same as our pre 90 class but they do stretch the rules a bit over there. Maybe it's an old set of factory forks he had and decided to fit them?
I did read a bit about the bike on MXtrax but can't remember the specifics of it now.
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: BAHNZY on October 04, 2012, 07:44:40 pm
Perhaps this how bikes should be advertised. Back in the day they had right :D

(http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii489/Darley04/349138ad63ea6425390e56e3d30b345a.jpg)
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: BAHNZY on October 04, 2012, 07:50:09 pm
And the bike that the current generation thinks started the 4 stroke era we currently enjoy.

(http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii489/Darley04/0d810fb750e67f0094f51448d7fe9f50.jpg)

(http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii489/Darley04/a4919295cf56ffbf894b143f4d5af976.jpg)
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: ola_martin on October 04, 2012, 08:57:09 pm
I still have my -95 FC, just like that, only 350, I feel pretty stupid now that I just found out that the 501 came with a bikinimodel, 350 sure didn't.... :-\
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: JohnnyO on October 04, 2012, 09:40:57 pm
And the bike that the current generation thinks started the 4 stroke era we currently enjoy.

(http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii489/Darley04/0d810fb750e67f0094f51448d7fe9f50.jpg)

(http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii489/Darley04/a4919295cf56ffbf894b143f4d5af976.jpg)
Henry's 97 & 98 factory bikes..
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: Davey Crocket on October 04, 2012, 09:54:41 pm
There aint nothing production bike about those two pianos.....if I remember right they had to get special dispensation to race them in the States with the no "WORKS" bike rule......those 95 Bergs look cool Barnzy....remember the quads Husaberg made.....they sold a few up here in Qld. 8)
Title: Re: 1st 4 stroke to qualify for a supercross main?
Post by: BAHNZY on October 04, 2012, 11:48:14 pm
The quads, what a crazy thing, they were called "Enforcers" and we had one in the shop for many years that was a kick start 600 and was a pig of thing when it got hot.  From memory they were only made from  98 to 99 with even less parts available for them now than the bikes. For the early bergs, ie pre 2001, engine parts are near impossible to get. If, and its a big if, you can find an original conrod you'll  be staring down the barrel of between $600 and $800. The 501 engine I have will need all bearings, a conrod, piston, a set of valves and an oil pump. Add the usual gaskets, seals etc and of course roller rockers and the parts bill is $2500 alone!