OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Competition => Topic started by: Kenneth S (222) on June 21, 2012, 05:02:47 am
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Hi Guys, I am putting this up here purely as an idea to see how much interest there might be if we were able to get it up and running.
If there is enough interest, then I will put it to the committee to see what can be done.
At the first meeting of the year at Lake Glenbawn, we had racing on the Saturday so there were 3 races for each class at this round, one Saturday afternoon and two on Sunday. On the Saturday night, at a club meeting, as some riders work Saturday or have their Kid’s school sport, some members said they couldn’t make it to the Saturday race for each event so it was put to a vote. Three rounds over Saturday & Sunday against two rounds Sunday only. Two rounds Sunday only won.
I understand this decision; no rider should be at a disadvantage because they can’t make it to race on the Saturday due to life's commitments. It is a democratic club and I agree with the decision for this reason.
There are quite a few of us in the club though who can make the time to come up Friday afternoon or early Saturday morning and would like some racing Saturday. Many share my view that if I am going to put all the effort I do into preparing the bikes & the riding gear, packing the gear up, travelling to the track, setting up the tent etc, I only get to ride once a month and would like to get as much racing in as I can for the weekend.
I would also like to see some longer races more like the Motocross I raced back in the day, and this view also seems to be shared by quite a few other members but the practicality of fitting longer races into a full race program on the Sunday is not good.
Speaking with some guys last weekend there seems to be quite a few who share these views and an idea evolved which might be fair to all.
The idea is a Saturday Cup. A separate series, with a separate points score, for those who want to race Saturdays. The format could be something like two x 15 minute plus 1 lap rounds run on the Saturday afternoon, perhaps at the end of each of the last two practice sessions. It could be a multiclass race, scored separately by class, and if we had more than a full grid, it could then be split by age group or spit by Classic and Post Classic.
There would obviously be more organising and work to be done by the committee to make this happen, but at the beginning of the year the committee was planning to run racing on Saturdays, so it can obviously be done if enough of us want it.
A solution like this preserves the current format to suit those who want to race Sunday only and adds to the format something for those of us who want more out of our weekend.
If you are a Heaven member and you think you would sign up and race a Saturday Cup please vote for the race length you would like. Hopefully the voting on this post would give us an indication on whether there is enough interest to formally take this proposal to the next club meeting.
Before you vote for the race length though, remember, Motocross back in the day was an endurance test where you could settle into a race and find your rhythm; you could make a mistake and had time to recover from it. We are older but we go out and practice for 15-20 minutes straight. What’s the difference?
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Sounds okay in principal. The biggest problem I can see you facing though is the eternal question of "Who's going to flag marshall".
Perhaps the "Saturday Racers" could flag for the "Saturday Rec Riders" for the practice sessions and then the "Rec Riders" could return the favour for the two rounds of races. I don't think it would be fair to allow riders to participate in both.
Then there is other considerations such as increased cost for a race permit etc. but as you say the club was considering Saturday racing previously so that shouldn't present so much of a problem.
As for my vote. I prefer Sunday only racing with a full day of practice on the Saturday.
Cheers
Shaun #27
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Hi Shaun,
Thanks for your comments. Agreed about sharing the flag duties. We are all sharing the flagging during Saturday practice with this new system which is much fairer and working well. I imagine we would continue the same flagging system and just add the races to the last 2 sessions, unless of course the races were so popular that there was no one left to flag. We could then split the races up to suit.
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I personally love the present format. Practice on Saturday is great, you get heaps of riding in, you can swap bikes halfway through a session. It is not often you can ride a lot of these tracks and to be able to practice on them for a decent stint of time is great and is one of my favorite things about Heaven. Flagging would be a problem no matter what you say. If every one is racing it would be a issue.
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If you require extra racing there are many options.
By a modern and ride the over 35's , a number of clubs run this format
Shauns group and the Northern Districts club run a modern over 35's or = to and a fabulous pre-90 format
The Heaven Saturday practice has ways been a very good point and attraction for the club.
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I`m with Shaun, Neil and 61......
If you wanna race more....simply bring a flaggie with you along with 20 bikes and you can race in every race
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As a heaven Member the first thing you should think about is all the members ...
what i mean is that some are 35years old and some are 78 years old
and some are 40 years but have the body and fitness of a 60 years old bloke .
and some are 54 years old and ride like thay are 20
And We all want to have a ride and just have some Fun with ya mate on your old Bike ...
and on the saturday you can ride as much as ya want or as little as ya want ..
and if it be comes hard work and your stop have fun and then dont go racing we all lose as guys dont turn up and any more and then we are
short on Flaggey and the shit go on
the thing is to find the Happy Medium ????? Shit that hard I know
is hard to please the fit fast guys and the not so fast well built guy .
so if you want more ride s run in more class Heaven is a great club for this and the New flaging format will
work for you .
Heaven is the Only club that I know that you Pay your $55 buck bring some one to flag and ride as many class as you can
and all Day on the Saturday rec ride .........
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As a heaven Member the first thing you should think about is all the members ...
what i mean is that some are 35years old and some are 78 years old
and some are 40 years but have the body and fitness of a 60 years old bloke .
and some are 54 years old and ride like thay are 20
And We all want to have a ride and just have some Fun with ya mate on your old Bike ...
and on the saturday you can ride as much as ya want or as little as ya want ..
and if it be comes hard work and your stop have fun and then dont go racing we all lose as guys dont turn up and any more and then we are
short on Flaggey and the shit go on
the thing is to find the Happy Medium ????? Shit that hard I know
is hard to please the fit fast guys and the not so fast well built guy .
so if you want more ride s run in more class Heaven is a great club for this and the New flaging format will
work for you .
Heaven is the Only club that I know that you Pay your $55 buck bring some one to flag and ride as many class as you can
and all Day on the Saturday rec ride .........
Agreed, except I have no mates and I have the body of a twenty year old Adonis :)
Maybe Ken the poll should allow for those who just want to Rec ride as well. I have mates in the club and thats all they want to do, drink and scocialise and talk old bikes and just be around the scene, the idea is Ok but id they can't Rec ride, I reckon the club will lose them :-\
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Thanks Guys for your comments. I painstakingly re read my post a few times before I posted it to make a few things clear but I will re state them in a different way just to get the message across.
I am not asking to change the existing format, just add to it, in fact I like the existing format when it runs to plan and I purposely used the words 'preserve the existing format' to make it clear I do not propose taking anything away from existing club members.
My proposal is to add something for other club members who I hope have just the same rights as club members as those who don't want anything changed.
From my experience there is enough time on the Saturdays to 'preserve' all the current rec riding and 'add' 2 motos. Most members who are at the track Saturday afternoon are going to camp there so there is no rush to get away and we could run them towards the end of the day, utilizing the late afternoon. Yes it would mean whoever is flagging for those 2 rec sessions would have to flag for an extra 10-15 minutes per session, but as a club member, if there was an event, let's say the CRC for example, which was focused on classes I don't ride, which it is, I would be more than happy to assist to help other club members have a better experience. Hopefully there are a few other members who share that view.
The comments about bringing 20 bikes and run in other events misses the point. I'd love to have the money and time to own and maintain more bikes, but I don't. I have already been forced to buy and maintain a second bike because I wasn't getting enough race time. Even doing that, for various reasons, many times now the races have been reduced from 4 to 3 laps, further reducing race time. My point is, there are some of us, who would like 'more' from the investment we make in money, time and effort to get to a race meeting.
What am I missing here? If I am proposing something that does not detract from the experience of members who like the current format, but adds to the experience of some members who would like more of a good thing, how can that be a bad thing?
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As it is in most cases , the more wisely you invest the better your return.
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At the most there might be four riding sessions on a Saturday if everything goes well. You have to flag for one of them. That leaves a possible three at best. Try to add two races the organizing, probably have to flag again and of course you are going to take away the present format. The guys on the older bikes are not going to want to race with the pre 85 bikes. You will lose certain members.
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Ken if you want more racing there are many other options as Shoey has pointed out.
You can ride at just about any club in their Over 30/35's classes.
There's also the East Coast MX Series and AMCROSS if you are looking for something a bit more serious.
I know it's not racing but maybe you would enjoy a Vinduro?
Or you can join us at any of our rounds. As a matter of fact we are riding at Maitland on July 1 http://retromx.com.au/online_entry.html (end of gratuitous plug ;D )
Unfortunately at the moment I think you serious racers are in the minority. My personal view these days is to get out and rec ride (when I get a chance to actually get to a HEAVEN meeting) and then relax and enjoy the company of good people. If I'm motivated on Sunday morning I'll have a ride. If not I'll try to help out where I can and go home happy that I've had a great weekend. To me this is what vintage is about.
With the Retro MX series we are dealing with, mostly, younger riders who are still into racing. I reckon as the years progress this will change into becoming more relaxed and we'll look at those young 35 year olds belting around on their Pre' 2000 4T's and we'll say that's not vintage!
Cheers
Shaun
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Hey guys
The next three meetings being CRC, EVO Challenge and Canowindra Cup means that there will be racing both days at all three meetings for all riders.
A) CRC - The focus may be on Pre78 eras at the CRC but EVO and Pre85 riders will have at least equal rides on the Saturday.
B) EVO Challenge - The Focus will be on Post Pre78 eras but Pre 78 and earlier will also get rides on Saturday. We will also have the added pleasure of the Retro MX guys company for that meeting. (we are building a stronger VMX scene in NSW ;))
C) Canowindra Cup - Everyone gets to ride both days and Greg H has booked no RRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr this year so the action will be fast, thick and heavy. A ton of fun!!!!
These meetings are a big commitment for most members over the coming months and many will have 'steam' coming out of exhausted bikes (sorry couldn't help myself ;D) and hopfully I can get my bikes turned around between meetings.
Lets see how that goes. The current program means that during the year we have
4 two day meetings with rec riding Sat and racing Sunday (allowing that we tried a 3 round format at Glenbawn which members overwhelmingly decided was not the preferred format)
3 two day meetings with racing both days.
1 two day meeting with racing Sat PM and Sun AM with the Presentation etc on Sunday afternoon.
That is a pretty good mix of formats.
The only real issues are track time and race length and they are always a problem. Last Sunday was reduced to 3 laps given the later start because of the wet track. We finished in very good time and in hindsight we possibly could have ran 4 laps in the afternoon but it would have taken only one injury stoppage and the well timed finish would have become a late finish or possibly dropping races. The old dammed it you do and dammed if you don't. I thought the Clerk and Stewart made the correct decision. It was basically dark at 17:00hrs
I'm not against your suggestion or supporting it after all I take 4 bikes and ride 14 races (well if you call what I do racing ::)) The problem is finding the balance that gives the maximum enjoyment to the maximum number of members. Are we there at this point? I don't know. As Shaun says the format also need to evolve as the membership demographics change over time.
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These meetings are a big commitment for most members over the coming months and many will have 'steam' coming out of exhausted bikes (sorry couldn't help myself ;D) and hopfully I can get my bikes turned around between meetings.
Funny! ;D
Thanks Greg, you make some valid points and the rest of the season with Mr VMX thrown in looks great. I guess the most frustrating thing for me is seeing that last lap board on my second time around! I understand why it has happened, just looking for a solution with minimal impact but maximum gain.
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i'm with you steamtrain!, bloody frustrating seeing the last lap board ;D, :P
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i'm with you steamtrain!, bloody frustrating seeing the last lap board ;D, :P
Liar!! ;D
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Ken, Nobody forced you to buy another bike ( your words) to get more race time
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Ken, Nobody forced you to buy another bike ( your words) to get more race time
You're right Ted, I wasn't forced. A more accurate way of making the same point would have been to say, "I had no alternative but to" or "the only alternative I had was" but the point is the same. If I wanted more racing at a Heaven meet, I needed to get another bike. Maybe I'm missing your point but I am struggling to see how picking that up is relevant to the discussion here or changes anything ???
This discussion began as an idea to improve the experience of a Heaven race meeting for a portion of the members without negatively impacting on the experience for any others. This forum is an ideal place to 'put it out there' and hopefully through constructive and open debate, get honest feedback as to whether the idea has merits. If it doesn't and I am on my own on this, then I have no problem at all with that outcome. I still think the whole Heaven experience is sensational and it is adding a lot of enjoyment to my life.
Going to more race meetings is not an alternative for me. I have 2 young kids and one meeting a month is all I can fairly expect them and my wife to handle having me away. I am sure I am not on my own and other members have similar circumstances.
As Monty has reminded us and Sean has illustrated, the club needs to evolve as the member's needs evolve. If you don't evolve or you shut down those who are trying to help the club evolve, you stand to loose what you are trying to protect.
At the time I write this there are 5 of us who have voted. Given that not all Heaven members are on this forum and that not all that are would have read this, I think a conservative estimate would be that there would be at least 10 of us who would like to see something 'added' to the mix Saturday afternoon. I have flagged for current classes where I have watched much less than 10 riders race around, in fact I can remember 1 class where there were only 2 riders circulating. I don't begrudge that, the challenge is to find a format that as close as possible, caters for all members, I'm for a format that is constantly tweaked to do so.
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Hey Ken ... you and I can just use one of the 20 minute Saturday practice sessions going hell for leather with bar bangin' and keep our own private point score....
:P
I am going to sit on the fence a bit here, cos I definitely see where youre coming from here Ken.... however I also understand all the other points raised too.
It is a balancing act. I thoroughly enjoy the way HEAVEN club run their events and especially am enjoying the atmosphere within the pits and track. More laps would be great, but as Montynut said time is generally against us with the early winter sunsets.
:)
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Hey Ken ... you and I can just use one of the 20 minute Saturday practice sessions going hell for leather with bar bangin' and keep our own private point score....
:P
Mate you're on!! That sounds like a plan. A 'Claytons' Cup ;D
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i'm with you steamtrain!, bloody frustrating seeing the last lap board ;D, :P
Liar!! ;D
gee,didn't think i'd havta explain myself to you mate!,WHEN i see last lap board,means i've stuffed up,& gotta do another lap ::), :P
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i'm with you steamtrain!, bloody frustrating seeing the last lap board ;D, :P
Liar!! ;D
gee,didn't think i'd havta explain myself to you mate!,WHEN i see last lap board,means i've stuffed up,& gotta do another lap ::), :P
I knew you were joking Mick but I get where you were coming from now. Funny :D