OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Suzuki => Topic started by: JADERD on May 28, 2012, 07:06:27 pm
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Hi All,
Starting another project, Dads first bike, 1972 TS185.
He sold it to my uncle in 75 when he got the Kawasaki F11, now F11 is complete i chatted to my uncle and he let me have dads orig bike.
1972 Suzuki TS185J
Basically all orig except for different rear tail light (from a diff year i think) as dad went a bit too far with a mono once :).
Had not been started in 12 years, put some oil down spark plug hole, checked gearbox oil, some fuel in, second kick on choke and it started for a few seconds, then afew kicks later and it ran, so atleast now i know it went before pulled apart. Only slight concerning bit i swear it was normal oil not 2 stroke oil in CCI reservoir :unsure:
Only actual damage is top triple tree right side cracked so need new top triple tree. Needs the usual other stuff, new levers, cables etc. Carby was crazy clean when apart. Exhaust fingers crossed looks like it has no pin holes at all
pulled apart bits to bring back to melbourne from mildura, uncle will bring rest of bike in July, grabbed all the staff i can rebuild, clean and polish.
At moment my plan is to strip all unnecessary items off chuck them in a box for incase ever want to restore to stock, and setup for Vinduro use, thinking 1973 rear guard as straight and flat, aftermarket plastic front guard, alternate rear shocks (honda XL 185 or something (bit more height) rebuild stock front shocks (come stock with 3 way front adjustment).
rear wheel 18" front is 19", will chuck on some nice knobbys
Anyone know of other triple tree fork setups that fit 1972 TS185 ?
was thinking seeing top triple tree broken should i update to some other triples, forks and front tyre bringing up to 21" rim etc....would cost a little though i think and looking at budget build so this may be a later option.
some pics below
Dad in 1972
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/Picture001.jpg)
May 2012
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/Picture002.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/Picture005.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/Picture004.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/Picture008.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/Picture003.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/Picture012.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/Picture013.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/Picture011.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/Picture014.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/Picture016.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/Picture017.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/Picture020.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/Picture019.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/Picture023.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/Picture026.jpg)
Whats left for uncle to drop to Melbourne in July
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/Picture028.jpg)
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Gotta love the fact that it was your old man's! ;D
I reckon I've got a NOS speedo cable for it.
I'll check the part number, but if it's right, send me a pm with your address and I'll send it off to you.
I know it's not much, but it's a start........ ;)
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Cheers Tony, that sounds awesome, thanks for looking into it, yeah like the fact both my bikes were dads from new, hopefully i can keep them for my kids and so on.
Cheers mate
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I'm pretty sure the triples are the same as TS125 and maybe even TS100 of the same year.
I don't have access to ZEDDER as present to check the compatibility and I probably have a spare set of clamps but they are in Darwin and I wont be back there till early July
Brent
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Cheers for info Brent, if you do have a set you want to get rid of once your back up in darwin please let me know ill flick ya some coin for them, bike n triples etc are in mildura until mid July anyway so may be perfect timing.
Cheers mate
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Quick update
tank was clean as inside, which was good, outside has done dings and scratches, also rear near seat looks like petrol stain as if leaking at some point, will see how it goes once on, if leaking will fix / get another tank. Cleaned and polished / waxed tank, like the look of the aged tank though shiny n waxed. polished up cap.
started pulling carby apart, so clean every jet perfectly clean, so surprised as never opened in 40 years, needle perfect etc.
also bought:
New cap for oil tank, did have an old milk cap on it
New chain buffer
1985 TS185 rear shocks, they are exactly the same as the ones i used on the kawasaki F11 resto, though the ones i bought for F11 were sold as KL250 shocks, either they were sold with wrong identity or KL250 and TS185 had same shocks at one point ?, either way happy as cheap and good upgrade from stock, firmer, stronger and longer
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/b1ba9022.jpg)(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/ee116060.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/3f3efe3a.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/883c2312.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/f073cd50.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/98db7721.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/ba5a8440.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/ChainBuffer.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/OilCap.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/1985TS185Shocks.jpg)
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Some more expenditure this morning.
Bit the bullet and grapped some MX VINTAGE OEM HONDA BEND 7/8" bars, will see how they go, if anything i may need some 1-2 inch risers as lower than stock bars.
Also grabbed a headlight,chromed steel, smaller trials style, comes as 12V so globe change back to 6V as cant be bothered converting bike to 12V and its really only there for purpose of gaining club reg / rec reg. Still not sure which reg type i will aim for. At the moment im thinking Rec reg so that i can reduce excess controls, wiring and ancillaries like indicators and really only run a kill switch and a converted hi/lo beam switch positioned elsewhere, can even ditch the horn and run a bicycle style horn/bell ;) - ofcourse brake light required etc
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/newheadlight.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/newhandlebars.jpg)
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Quick Update.
Have ordered some more parts from Ebay, after looking at complete bikes for parts bikes, not many around VIC and prices get too high and logistics of picking up etc, and also looking at a few nice completed bikes i have decided its more fun to source the parts and build bike myself.
recently got
NOS sprocket washer set
TS 250 savage foot pegs, appear as if should fit from part numbers
Rear TS plastic fender
Front TS plastic fender
Top yolk, bottom yolk and steering stem (my top yoke one side cracked)
Wiring Harness.
Grips
Everything except the grips and sprocket washers were off one guy in US, let me buy it all them he did a total for postage combining all which was great, postage came to $70 which i was happy with as individually each item had around $25 postage on them.
Best purchase so far was the triples and steering stem $47 incl postage from US, on ebay AUS ppl want $40 + just for top triple.
so happy with whats on its way. Will prob get some 7/8" 30mm risers for handlebars as new ones are only 70m high as opposed to 100m of stock.
Hopefully within the next few weeks my uncle will be doing a trip to melb so i can get the rest of the bike and start getting stuck in. I want to have atleast a semi restored roller by Jap Classic day in late Nov this year.
On another note my twincam corolla is being inspected Sat 8am for club reg so very soon that will be nice n cheap to use throughout the year.
cheers
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Update,
My uncle who gave me the bike came down from Mildura for a holiday and bought down the bike.
He and my other uncle bob ( one who recovered kawasaki seat n will do same with Suzuki) came for a drive out to Doreen from Richmond to drop it off.....I shouted them breakfast out for their troubles :).
Put together a small table I found in the rubbish area at work ( our office is in a residential complex in hawthorn east, sounds racist, but I'm not, seems majority of residents are Asians and they have a massive throwaway mentality, apparently in Asian culture second hand is seen as bad and poor etc). So I scored the table, strapped on my garage crawler added an old cutlery drying container & pegboard container and I now have a nice mobile bench, wheel away when pull car back into garage.
Started removing bits and pieces and moved the kawasaki outside :( not enough space to both in garage, once Suzuki built might be ok but during building need more space. Rigged up a tarp and bought a motorbike cover, works well as had rain straight after finished, cover hardly gets wet thanks to tarps.
My parts from america should arrive very soon. Happy I have the entire bike at home now
Also happy to now have my twincam on club reg, nice n cheap now, this car will be used as tow car for getting to vinduros.....eventually.
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/43a20f17.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/0703d31c.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/ce1a7e20.jpg)
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Quick update.
Sideburn mag issue 11 arrived :) and also my bulk parcel from eBay, from USA.
To my surprise the guards are Preston Petty :) couldn't tell from pics in for sale and were sold as TS185 1972 model, I figured might be 73/74 model plastic ones so to be Preston petty I'm very happy, a few scuffs, a few drill holes and in need of light sand, paint etc but very happy.
The foot pegs appear to be a direct bolt in which is great too, bought them hoping would fit, wasn't sure. Triples and steering stem looks great, wiring harness I haven't bothered unwrapping yet, I just added that to purchase as a backup so I can remove what I don't need and be able to take back to stock road version one day if want.
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/c73ab1c6.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/c0aa375c.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/b819077d.jpg)
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Ahhh bloody iPad lost all the text I had written.
I'll shorten it.
Piston shagged - barrel looks ok
Connecting rod has some movement left to right etc, needle bearing shagged ?
I'll out more detailed pics and vids in time.
Any advice would be great, obviously top end rebuild, I've never done that before, how does it work re. What oversize do I get, I'm guessing you go standard if haven't had barrel machine if have you got up to the first level of oversize ?
Any advice for home tool to get piston pin out? C clamp ?
Also bike resto is on a little cash as possible, bike will be used in vinduros and get thrashed I guess, what would you do if yo were in my shoes regarding rebuilding the top end, any porting ? Should I crack the cases, once again I've never done this before.
Now I know engine needs some work I'll wait to get advice off pp, do some research and get all the rest or the bike sorted.
Cheers in advance for any advice.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/558033_10150955233626619_1863238168_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s720x720/540299_10150955234881619_2109219996_n.jpg)
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When you do a top end the best thing to do is find the specs for bore size & work out whether the bore is still in spec as well as what oversize it is already on
If you clean the head of the piston there should be a mark on it telling you which size it is if oversize
You'll need to tidy up the head a bit, get rid of the damage as best you can as the sharp edges can cause detonation/pre-ignition?
Side to side play in the rod is probably okay as long as there is no up & down play. You'll need to have a look on a parts site to see if there should be thrust washers to minimise that
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Brilliant cheers tony, it will be its first piston still, dad and uncle would have never changed it etc.
Thanks for the tips of where to start
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Ok bit of an update.
I think I exaggerated re up down movement, though there is def some movement maybe 1-2 mm which I'm guessing would mean the needle bearing which I think you call the main bearing is prob worn out or broken.
Measured the piston 63.8 mm
Measured Barrel 63.9 mm
That's with my vernier calipers, digital not most expensive ones but atleast let's me know nothing has ever been done before. Piston just has the front arrow on it same as Kawasaki did, 100% sure orig piston.
Barrel looks ok like I said earlier, does appear to,have some slight scratches that you can just feel at base of barrel. No real nicks or lips at all around ports that I can see.
I also smoothed out the head a little, just concerned about 2 deeper holes, should they be filled with weld or something ? Or be ok , or buy new head
Let me know what you think, cheers
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/370df67d.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/2d954422.jpg)
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(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/9fe89374.jpg[/img
[IMG]http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/03b96835.jpg)
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Simon, looks and reads to me like it has dropped the big end bearing which in turn has done the damage to the piston, head and cylinder. Don't like to be a pessimist but I'd say it'll need a complete rebuild (rebore, oversize piston and rings, gudgeon pin, clips, small end bearing, conrod, big end bearing, crank pin, thrust washers, main bearing, complete gasket kit, machine work and crank work) Conservatively about $400+ if you split the engine and reassemble the engine yourself :-\ Good news is all parts would be available. Considering it was your Dad's bike it all depends how much it means to you.
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Cheers doc, I'm in no real rush (only 28 :) ).
The bike doesn't have as much sentimental value as Kawasaki but still want it rebuilt, I want a good decent old bike setup for vinduros, I think this could be it and if all engine work done it would be like new, I could buy another second hand ts for the $400 price but odds are it would need something done too.
If I rebuild this engine do all the stuff I want to still a cheap vinduros bike and I should feel confident to thrash it around.....sound realistic ?
Also managed to get the pin out which I was happy about.
Top end bearing its called yeah, seemed ok, though you replace it anyway.
Definite movement up n down in rod see vid below.
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/aff07bd8.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/c8bf5096.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/cfde3c5a.mp4)
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Thrashing a TS185 around is very realistic. They were possibly the best trail bike Suzuki made in the 70's and 'normally' ultra reliable ;)
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Couldnt choose a more reliable and fun bike to play with than a 185.
Pity about that engine, Thats a first for me as the bottom ends on sierras are to my experience bullet proof but i do agree with Docs prognosis and the bottom end has possibly let go.
Now the question is why did that happen?
Running premix without removing the slinger?
Forgetting to add oil to the fuel?
Forgetting to add oil to the oil tank?
Doesnt matter too much now as it looks pretty shagged. Head will work okay but get rid of those chunks in it or they will come loose and pound your new piston. Barrel looks salvalgable depending on current oversize. If its on its last oversize or those grooves are deep ,Wiseco do a piston that may suit.
Maybe look around for another engine rather than go to the expense and associated issues of splitting the cases and having the big end pressed apart. Mains. big end & pin. conrod, small end, con rod, piston, rings, pin, seals, gaskets and machining. Its all dollars and time.
As said previously Ive never seen a 185 engine with a bad bottom end before so if you do find one about all they usually need is a freshen up of the top end. Rebore, piston, rings, pin and small end. easy stuff and cost effective.
Considering how much is required to the rest of the bike Id be saving a few dollars and labelling that motor as spares. i guess it all depends on what you want the result to be and how much your willing to invest, a weekend rider or a concourse with matching numbers.
Good luck with the project
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weekend rider, on rec reg is all i want, so may be best to source another motor, ill keep my eyes and ears out for another motor whilst doing all the simple body work and treat this one as a spares. As you mentioned i would rather not have to outlay much if any cash to someone else to do the work. If i get another motor only real outlay is barrel bore etc.
Cheers
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Will a 73 TM250 or 76 TS250 fit ? might be able to hook you up with those, just got to pull em out the bikes
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Will a 73 TM250 or 76 TS250 fit ? might be able to hook you up with those, just got to pull em out the bikes
Too big for a 185 frame :(
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Yeah 185 frame are fairly tiny.
Still deciding what to do so far advice is.
Fix it, shouldnt cost you too much
Stripping the motor you have already got will cost you nothing, only 'specialist' tool you will need is a flywheel puller $25 and even then there are ways around it or im sure someone here can knock it off for you.
You can see what needs replacing and unless its something major like a complete crankshaft then it is going to be cheap.
Rod kit is less than $50 with top/bottom bearings
Gasket set ~$50
Piston kit ~$80
Shop to press your crank $65
Rebore $65
Next option ppl say is buy another motor and just do top end rebuild as generally the TS185 sierra model motors bottom end is bullet proof.
Other ppl then say buying a second hand motor is just a side step unless seen it running in prior.
What are ppls thoughts............im guessing my engine is at the end where it needs a fair bit done as opposed to getting a second hand one cheap and just doing piston rings etc.
remembering i have never split cases on a motor before, have just the standard garage tools and want to limit outsource costs to a minimum.
??
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Buy the second hand bottom end and always ask if it was run on pre-mix etc to avoid more of the same problems you have. Replace the stator side seal as this one dries out the most.
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sorry if a stupid question but when you say buy the second hand bottom end, you mean buy another motor just missing barrel and piston etc, or still crack my cases use my motor but buy second hand when i get the bottom end etc ?
cheers
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Simon, you could go either way. To buy just a bottom end (crankcases with crank and gearbox complete less cylinder, head, piston etc) might cost anywhere between $50 and $150 but without close inspection you could well end up with something that's on it's last legs.
If you buy a used bottom end it's probably been sitting around for untold years without the cylinder and it only takes a speck of rust on one of the big end needle rollers to put you back in exactly the same position you're in now.
In my veiw, to rebuild yours would be the way to go. At least then you would have peace of mind knowing it's all new. The extra cost wouldn't be a lot. It doesn't take rocket science to split an aircooled 2 stroke engine to have the crank repaired. Have a manual on hand, use the step by step assembly procedure and you will be surprised how simple it is. Particular attention should be paid to keeping the internals spotlessly clean and if for some reason something doesn't feel right then it probably isn't! Lastly, don't rush things ;)
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=86267C09A3452A71!6490 (https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=86267C09A3452A71!6490)
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quick update, havent been on for a while.
My daily "TS185" ebay search paid off, have been looking for a parts bike so as i have spares and the possibility of finding one with an OK bottom end.
Found this one today and quickly rang guy, scored for a low price.
even if motor shagged i score what looks to be a old bassani pipe ? and the kick starter and of course everything else as spares.
Quite happy at the moment :)
(http://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/426757_10151393156421619_210871296_n.jpg)
(http://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/969861_10151393156336619_1597491711_n.jpg)
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(http://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/401932_10151393156566619_1994560592_n.jpg)
ebay add
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vintage-Susuki-TS-185-/130919209181?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&_uhb=1&hash=item1e7b6498dd&nma=true&si=GWXNY%252BAW6qxgpt%252BI1A%252BKxv3dVo4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vintage-Susuki-TS-185-/130919209181?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&_uhb=1&hash=item1e7b6498dd&nma=true&si=GWXNY%252BAW6qxgpt%252BI1A%252BKxv3dVo4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557)
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Hi All,
Need some advice from the experts.
The bike i bought above scored me a nice exhaust & kick start that i needed and then all the various spares so worth the small outlay.
Pulled the barrel off, barrel is nice and neat, one cracked fin. The main crank bearing feels tight with no movement at all, though it is swimming in engine oil so there is a a gasket or seals gone somewhere.
I have decided i will take my time and rebuild an engine, questions is which one do i pick.
My orig one i know worked, all gears etc, its bottom end is gone (crank bearing) though no oil leak here, clean, just piston skirt debris inside.
Other engine the crank bearing feels very tight, though swimming in oil, does this straight away void the crank bearing making it useless ?
i know i have to use the same cases in regard to splitting them and putting back together, is the oil soaked crank / bearing / rod useable to transplant into my orig motor if one removed and cleaned of oil has zero movement ?
Any info / feedback would be appreciated as usual.
I also figured i would need a list of special type tools, i plan on playing with motorbikes and other motors all my life so dont mind outlaying for specific tools.
Already have a fly wheel puller i bought a while back
yesterday i have bought (ebay)
Kincrome Impact screwdrive
Kincrome sliding T handle 1/2" so can use my sockets easier
Flywheel / Clutch locking Pulley holder.
i then hopped on Rocky Mountain ATV, a US site and compiled the below list of items that im thinking of getting, postage all up is $50 , same as ordering one of these items via ebay (total incl items $204). Main expensive items i figured i would need are the crankcase splitter and the bearing puller, grabbed other items as always handy to have on hand.
Does this sound like overkill "shop" tools wise or do most of you guys who do rebuilds own / have made these tools as it makes the whole job a hell of a lot easier and less chance of damaging things ?
Product Description Price Quantity Availability Notes Sub Total
FMF Pipe Spring Puller Tool
Part # 1046890001
$6.99 In Stock $6.99
Tusk 10 Piece Hex Key Wrench Set
Part # 1134030001
$15.99 In Stock $15.99
Tusk Crankcase Splitter/Separator
Part # 1177390001
$59.99 In Stock $59.99
Tusk Crank Bearing and Gear Puller Set
Part # 1195970001
$59.99 In Stock $59.99
Tusk Snap Ring/Circlip Pliers
Part # 1177370001
$6.99 In Stock $6
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that oil is proberly oil from the oil tank that has gotten through the oil pump with yrs of sitting,to check though see what the colour is of it and wats left in the oil tank,if they match no probs if not then replace the right hand crank seal.if the donor motor shifts through the gears ok I be tempted to use that then make one out of 2,reasons being your old motor will have bits of piston in the crank bearings which will need replacing along with seals and full gasket kit,where the donor motor will only ned a top gasket kit and a set of rings/pi/
and small end bearing and save splitting the cases though not a big job but abit scarey for a 1st timer ;) ;D
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Hi matt, it seemed to be identical oil in consistency and smell.
In saying that to me it didn't seem like the two stoke oil I'm used to, could be due to sitting for ages or type of oil, it seemed more like engine oil. I like your idea re. Which engine to use, donor bike does flick through gears ok. I will take picks over next week or two as I take engine out and tip upside down / remove piston and really check out main bearing tolerance.
I will use my orig. engines side cases though as the donors bikes aren't in as good condition, the left side very outer flat cover must have been smashed at some point and is now made from a pop riveted piece of metal and sealant!, can sort of tell from pics above. Though from looking I can /will change the whole left side cover, not just the flat very outer cover also the main cover as donor bikes has/ will have pot rivet holes in it if I only replace the very outer cover.
I'm assuming from seeing them sold online etc that the outer covers ( clutch / fly wheel) are ok to interchange between bikes ? It's only the main cases that need to be a matching pair to ensure they seal perfect?
Thanks for all info and advice so far.
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yeah the maggie covers and clutch cover are the same right up to the M 75 model then they changed for the A in 76 and not too much rocket science in changing them over to your good covers.at least youll have some of your old motor on it!you might have to adjust your clutch push rod clearance which isn't hard,loosen lock nut screw in bolt till touching then screw out same bolt 1/4 turn and tighten lock nut whilt holding centre screw ;)
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Cheers, that another reason I wanted another parts bike as the little lever type part of the clutch mechanism at the engine on my orig motor seemed a bit so hopefully part on new bike is fine.
Thanks once again, will update with pics / more info in coming weeks
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Used a brake bleeder to suck heaps oil out, had a real good feel of crank, can wriggle left and right slightly, but no up and down movement at all, appears the main bearing might be in good condition.
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Ok, here are some pics of the piston that came out of second bike.
i cant see any actual markings that its a Wiseco, im guessing due to the sticker on the tank that maybe they upgraded.
Its def not a stock suzuki piston as has no suzuki markings on inside (like my other orig on) but it does have TS185R on the inside of piston.
Piston appears in goodish nick, some blow by, not too much scoring, though it does have one mark where it appears to have maybe hit / scraped base of barrel at some point. The skirt has no cracks, although it does have a little flat spot on the four corners of the skirt, seems pretty uniform, not sure if from manufacturing or from being in bike ?
im a noob to pistons, but compared to my other orig one this one appears to have a slightly smaller diameter but the rings seem designed to "flare" out heaps more than the stock rings on other piston.
so some questions
what do ppl think this piston is? any specific wiseco markings ?
does it seem in ok condition
is it true the rings flare out further / better than orig piston / ring setup, whats the benefit if so ?
cheers
pics below
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/IMG_5456_zps12a889c2.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/IMG_5455_zpsdc4fedbb.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/IMG_5448_zps6968bc13.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/IMG_5457_zps7b151800.jpg)
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/IMG_5461_zps9a94b7d7.jpg)
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Forgot to add this pic, piston does have one marking. 060 and the arrow pointing to exhaust.
guessing 060 is a marking in measurement of some description ?
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/Suzuki%20TS185%201972/IMG_5453_zps5adc5c55.jpg)
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Its time like these its good to have some digital vernier calipers around, great to measure all sorts of things, l wonder if its a 6 or a 9 on the oversize piston ?
Is that a dot in front of the 6 or carbon ?
Geoff
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Appears to be carbon from what I can tell.
Info from do the ton forum and Suzuki TS forum recommend, replace rings and keep piston though keep it below redline due to already scored skirt of piston so I think ill scrap it and buy a fresh seeing as though this one isn't a forged wiseco or anything worth trying to use.
now that i have sucked out the excess oil from the crank area is there an easy way to test whether the oil was from deliberate addition for preserving / oil line siphon in or damage ?
if i just fill the engine with oil via normal filling point and see if is seeps in ?
once i find out whether i need to fully rebuild bottom end (how oil got in / if damaged) i will move onto new top end.
Sorry for newb questions but what is process for working out size of next piston, vernier caliper on top / bottom of barrel, get average of many measurements then buy piston next available size up and get barrel honed ?
will use barrel and head off this new bike as my orig one would be in worse nick i think .
Cheers
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The vernier would tell you close enough the piston dia in relation to the oversize but not accurate enough for the piston/ bore clearance, you need a micrometer for that, might need to take your pistons and barrels to someone who can measure them accurately and reco as required, depending on how particular you want to be.
Geoff
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Whilst it does not appear to be a Wiseco piston (usually have a W marking on the inside) it does have the L shape (dykes) top ring which was common for Wiseco (blue box) in the early '70s. The number on top is 60 thou the equivalent of a 1.50mm oversize (65.5mm overbore) Rings for this piston may not be easy to find. The carbon on the side skirt is commonly known as blow-by indicating some wear to either the rings or the bore or both. You would need to have the bore measured accurately to determine if it is within serviceable limits. I don't think they made an 80thou oversize piston kit for this model :-\
As for the oil in the cases a leakdown test would confirm if a seal/gasket or case damage is responsible. This requires assembling the engine, sealing the inlet and exhaust then pressurizing the cylinder to monitor any pressure loss. Not exactly an easy job without the right equipment. It's a little hard to say which way to go without seeing the engine but Matt's statement of the donor motor may only be in need of a top gasket kit, a set of rings (if available) and small end bearing to save splitting the cases maybe the go. As kdx Geoff said..it all depends on how particular you want to be.
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ive got a wiseco orange bow .080 thou or 2mm oversize piston/pin with no rings if needed or rebore your other barrel if its still on std to .5mm or 1mm depending how bad the bore is scored/damaged.i got a nos 1mm piston for a pommy pound plus post and rings are cheap from Asian sellers too,have a search of ebay. ;)to see where to oil in the crank case came from see if its the same colour as the gearbox oil or the oil tank/pump lines as most oils have a dye in them ;) ;D
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Cheers for all comments.
to sum up might be best to use my original barrel which isnt too bad scored really (ill have a closer look) as i know for sure that was running its original piston which should allow decent honing of barrel if required.
oil seemed identical color to that of the 2 stroke reservoir.
another way a guy on do the ton forum mentioned to check the seals is to prop engine up so that the crank opening is level, fill with parrafin (kero) leave overnight and check if dropped. small amount ok from evap but if half way gone then there is a def problem.
Ill do the checks re bottom end then take it from there in regard to doing top end.
not being too particular but would rather put a new top end in for the cash whilst its all apart etc.
Thanks again for info