OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: John Orchard on May 24, 2012, 05:17:40 am
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I just read on the Motocross Action website that the 2013 KX450F has got air forks, they list the benefits of air forks ...... wow my RM125B is 36 years ahead of its time! LOL ;-)
http://www.motocrossactionmag.com/Main/News/FIRST-LOOK-2013-KAWASAKI-KX450F-THE-MOST-POWERFUL-8963.aspx
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Wow. :P Everything old is new again.
I want one!
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Just like the old addage and how true it is. If you want to learn something new, ask someone old.
K
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And there only 8 1/2 grand new.....if you live in seppo land..... ::)
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I remain sceptical. It's one of those ideas that's dragged up every 15 years or so, but disappears again.
I understand why the engineers want to use air springs, but until they overcome the 'too progressive' nature of air as a spring, the drawbacks outweigh the benefits.
Not to mention that a leaky fork seal will let the air pressure leak out, leaving you with a collapsed front end.
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I'm sure they've put a bit more thought into it than just taking the springs out and putting valves in the fork caps. ::)
Maybe a separate air chamber in the forks?
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Kawasaki already lead the way in fork inovation with compression/rebound damping in one leg and the spring in the other.. They wouldn't be bringing an air fork system out if it was prone to failures.
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Spring in 1 leg & dampening in the other isn't new, trials bikes have run like that on & off most of this century & possibly in the 90s as well
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There are parallels with the mountain bike world here, where quantity sold can cover development costs. The usual suspects are active here, Marzocchi and others and of course Mr Fox himself. Most of these systems have been splitting the role of the two legs for many years..
Like these,
http://www.foxracingshox.com/product.php?m=bike&t=forks&p=32306&ref=fhexplore
Or
http://www.foxracingshox.com/product.php?m=bike&t=forks&p=40101&ref=filter
With only 8 inches of travel these are pre 78 legal too ;D
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The Kawi/KYB separate function fork wasn't exactly a step forward.
The Cannondale, YZF450, and Ossa reversed motor didn't turn the world upside down.
The BMW/Husky concentric sprocket and swing arm pivot was probably actually a step backward.
There's a bunch of good reasons why dirt bikes have evolved to be all so similar. I appreciate that some companies are willing to take risks, but there's no certainty that it will be a step forward.
Steel-alloy coil springs are the standard for suspension across all sorts of cars and bikes for a good reason or seven.
I'd love to be proven wrong, but I stand by my earlier comment about being sceptical.
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Right now, there's a whole Kawasaki R&D department commiting 'hurri-curri' because they didn't run their new concept by a forum dedicated to old jallopies....... :D
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Spring in 1 leg & dampening in the other isn't new, trials bikes have run like that on & off most of this century & possibly in the 90s as well
I was actually talking motocross but no worries.
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The Kawi/KYB separate function fork wasn't exactly a step forward.
The factory KYB suspension guys at the MX GP's use this fork for ease of setup, you only have to strip 1 fork to change the valving or 1 fork to alter the springrate. KYB suspension is used by many of the teams in the GP's and the US, they obviously work.
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Right now, there's a whole Kawasaki R&D department commiting 'hurri-curri' because they didn't run their new concept by a forum dedicated to old jallopies....... :D
You’ll have to forgive the skeptics here as anyone that has seen a few decades pass by will have remembered all sorts of innovative gizmo’s come and go including Yamaha’s air forks of 76.
Personally I wouldn’t be rushing out to buy the first version.
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If (virtually) the whole leg is air space, it might be possible to keep the spring rate relatively linear for riders in the target weight range.
I CNBF doing the maths now, but... my gut feeling is that there will be coil spring conversions (possibly just 'booster springs') will be available within a few months of its release, particularly for 'full size' riders.
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Spring in 1 leg & dampening in the other isn't new, trials bikes have run like that on & off most of this century & possibly in the 90s as well
Thats what they are running at the moment isn't it.
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The early test writeups are very positive about the low speed and high speed capabilities of the 'new' fork design. But I read an interview with some US MX suspension expert who said the very latest designs of the separate function forks are way better still, and the top SX/MX guys have been amazed, and he's sure they'll be the norm in three-four years. ie, their ability to be plush on low-med speed bumps and take the big/massive hits no worries too. and easier/faster to work on, hand adjustable preload, more tunability for compression and rebound damping etc.
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You’ll have to forgive the skeptics here as anyone that has seen a few decades pass by will have remembered all sorts of innovative gizmo’s come and go including Yamaha’s air forks of 76.
Next thing they will release will be an anti-dive front end ;D
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As I say. Kawasaki must be kicking themselves that they didn't ask the 'experts' first.....
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What happens to air forks if they get a leak?, must be something in the technology to stop 'em going "flat" quickly. Could be ugly on a hard landing.
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What happens to air forks if they get a leak?, must be something in the technology to stop 'em going "flat" quickly. Could be ugly on a hard landing.
My RM forks are 35 years old, I put in 20lb 4 months ago; hasn't lost 1lb yet. Yeh I was amazed lol
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My RM forks are 35 years old, I put in 20lb 4 months ago; hasn't lost 1lb yet. Yeh I was amazed lol
I'd like to apply that technology to my wheels ;D
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The 2013 ktm have the same fork. i think.
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...and in a few years we'll have a "new" air shock...been there done that.
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i'm surprised Pancho hasn't mentioned 48 Velo mac's yet,their air forks lasted 2 seasons before getting binned,(went to internal springs), :P
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i'm surprised Pancho hasn't mentioned 48 Velo mac's yet,their air forks lasted 2 seasons before getting binned,(went to internal springs), :P
You beat me to it!
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Honda CRF450 as well.
* Fork. The CRF450 will now come with Kayaba’s all-new Pneumatic Spring Fork (PSF). This design doesn’t use main springs, which reduces unsprung weight by 1.7 pounds. It also lowers fork friction to allow quicker reaction from the front wheel over bumps and keeps the front end planted. Air replaces the main springs, making it easy for a rider to easily adjust the stiffness of the fork by adding or dropping air pressure by way of a Schrader valve on top of the fork cap. Adding or dropping 2 psi equates to a different spring rate. It’s worth noting that the PSF that comes on the Honda is developed specifically for the CRF450 (meaning that it’s not the exact same fork as what comes on the 2013 KX450F).
* The Pneumatic Spring Fork is the next thing in suspension technology (although it too is old techonolgy that every 1970s racer or Yamaha owner will remember). For 2013 the 2013 KX450F also uses Kayaba’s PSF design, and Showa has their own air fork design. Will fork springs suffer the same fate as the carburetor? They didn't the last time this was tried, but technology often moves forward by looking backwards.
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So you would then guess the rear spring will go the same way as well and they will produce a rear mono-airshock as standard equipment
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I was very surprised by the Kayaba PSF fork performance. The fork action seemed more consistent over a broader range of track conditions. The front end also maintained better contact with the ground. I swore that I was losing my mind, but then I reconfirmed my thoughts when I jumped back and forth between 2012 and 2013 models. Let me sum this answer up by saying that I can’t wait to try out this fork design on a very rough track where front end traction is pivotal. One track, perfectly prepped for a press intro, is not the end-all be-all of test tracks.
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Yeh I read that in CRF450R test by MXA also.
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Attention: Conversion kits now available to bring your 2012 model or older up to 2013 specs.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/YAMAHA-YZ-400-C-1976-AIR-FORK-CANNISTERS-VMX-/110896118495?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19d1ec7adf