OzVMX Forum

Clubroom => Bike Talk => Topic started by: Tahitian_Red on May 13, 2012, 06:32:32 am

Title: First Japanese Dirt Bikes?
Post by: Tahitian_Red on May 13, 2012, 06:32:32 am: What were the first Japanese "purpose built" Scrambles/MX bikes sold to the public?

I don't mean factory add-on or hop-up kits (out the door ready to race).
Title: Re: First Japanese Dirt Bikes?
Post by: Iain Cameron on May 13, 2012, 11:57:45 am: As a Yamaha freak I hope Im right in saying the dt2mx
Title: Re: First Japanese Dirt Bikes?
Post by: EML on May 13, 2012, 12:24:15 pm: Prob even before DTs came along the YD Yamahas and CL Hondas had to be taken into consideration. Built to take on the Triumphs and CZs, Huskys, Monarks, Maicos etc.... but a long way from them.
The Yamahas that went to Catalonia were pretty much proddy bikes.??
Title: Re: First Japanese Dirt Bikes?
Post by: JohnnyO on May 13, 2012, 12:30:40 pm: I think the DT2mx was Yamahas first real mx bike in '72. Was Kawasakis first MXer the G31m in 1970? Then there was also the '71 TM Suzuki and '73 CR Elsinore.
Title: Re: First Japanese Dirt Bikes?
Post by: VMX60 on May 13, 2012, 12:34:22 pm: Good Question

Over here in the west

TC250 twin Suzuki were raced in MX

The first pucka MX model was RTIMX Yamaha black tank yellow stripe all the 250cc DT1 were kitted std models I took the very 1st RT1MX out to a demo day as a Yamaha saleman and blew the kick start idler gear though the crankcases it kick back that hard :P lucky my leg was OK :D

Cheers
Title: Re: First Japanese Dirt Bikes?
Post by: JohnnyO on May 13, 2012, 01:01:06 pm: Some info i read claims Yamaha's first purpose built MX bike was the DT2-MX.
Title: Re: First Japanese Dirt Bikes?
Post by: EML on May 13, 2012, 01:07:34 pm: so was it the DT1 or the Kawasaki-too long ago for me -I am a late baby boomer so I was only 10 in 1969.
Title: Re: First Japanese Dirt Bikes?
Post by: Stan S on May 13, 2012, 01:24:05 pm: Maybe the 1963 Kawasaki B8M
(http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af39/gf079/Early%20Kawasakis/B8M.jpg)

In 1963, the B8M Motocrosser took the top 6 positions in the Hyogo Prefecture Motocross Tournament.
The Fearsome "Red-Tank Furore"
With all the Kawasaki bikes completing the race, the race team proved that the "Kawasakis are strong machines in tough circuits". Later at the Fukui Prefecture Motocross Tournament, the Kawasaki machines won all the race events and at various motocross tournaments held in West Japan, Kawasaki machines were victorious in most of the events – despite not competing the past year. The outstanding achievements of the "Red-Tank Furore", named for it’s red fuel tank, earned it a fearsome reputation.

Stan.
Title: Re: First Japanese Dirt Bikes?
Post by: pancho on May 13, 2012, 01:24:35 pm: far as I know it was the DT1 with the GYT kit
Title: Re: First Japanese Dirt Bikes?
Post by: firko on May 13, 2012, 01:25:44 pm: Yamaha.The DT1MX and RT1MX were released in 1970 but thery were basically kitted trail bikes so the first proper Yamaha motocrosser was the DT2MX in 1972.
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/dt2mx.jpg)
Honda. The CR250 Elsinore was Honda's first effort in 1973.
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/ELSINORE.jpg)
Suzuki It's arguable just how available the RH67/TM67 (same bike, different names) was to the public but it's accepted that they were sold to some worthy buyers. The first TM Suzuki mass sold was the '71 TM250/400.
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/1967_TM250-RH67_racert1_450.jpg)
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/1967_TM250-RH67_CW-1_225.jpg)
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/suzuki_tm400.jpg)
Kawasaki. The F21M 250 was released in 1968.
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/Kawaf21m.jpg)

So, it seems that both Yamaha and Honda were stragglers in the race to get a proper MXer to the buying public. Granted, the RH67 was a pseudo 'works bike' and therefore only sold in limited numbers, while the Kawasaki F21 'Greenstreek' was sold through dealers to anyone who wanted one. They were short in supply (as all pre 80s Kawasaki's were) but they were available so I'd say that the Greenstreek was the first production purpose built motocrosser.
Title: Re: First Japanese Dirt Bikes?
Post by: JohnnyO on May 13, 2012, 01:30:01 pm: Nice homework Firko :)
Title: Re: First Japanese Dirt Bikes?
Post by: JohnnyO on May 13, 2012, 01:30:58 pm: Quote from: pancho on May 13, 2012, 01:24:35 pm
far as I know it was the DT1 with the GYT kit
The question was purpose built MX bikes not kitted bikes...
Title: Re: First Japanese Dirt Bikes?
Post by: EML on May 13, 2012, 01:36:02 pm: What year did the Hodakas come out and would they be classed as Japanese??
Looks like Kawasaki had the jump on them all-way back in '61
Title: Re: First Japanese Dirt Bikes?
Post by: firko on May 13, 2012, 01:36:55 pm: Maybe the first Japanese production motocrosser was the YA11 from 1957 ;D. I've no idea how many were sold to the public though.
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/YA11957.jpg)
Title: Re: First Japanese Dirt Bikes?
Post by: huskibul on May 13, 2012, 03:33:26 pm: Geez if that ain't a bantam it'll do til' we get one ! :D
Title: Re: First Japanese Dirt Bikes?
Post by: jerry on May 13, 2012, 04:58:40 pm: Firko was there works rider i 58' J
Title: Re: First Japanese Dirt Bikes?
Post by: VMX60 on May 13, 2012, 05:46:22 pm: The RT1MX was supplied from the Yamaha factory as a motocross only model with the 21in front wheel and marketed as purpose built MX weapon

And Ken George Yamaha WA sold a shit load of them

Your DT2MX way later in the 70s

Cheers
Title: Re: First Japanese Dirt Bikes?
Post by: JohnnyO on May 13, 2012, 05:59:32 pm: Quote from: VMX60 on May 13, 2012, 05:46:22 pm
The RT1MX was supplied from the Yamaha factory as a motocross only model with the 21in front wheel and marketed as purpose built MX weapon

And Ken George Yamaha WA sold a shit load of them

Your DT2MX way later in the 70s

Cheers
VMX60 i think what Firko said below is correct

Quote from: firko on May 13, 2012, 01:25:44 pm
Yamaha.The DT1MX and RT1MX were released in 1970 but thery were basically kitted trail bikes so the first proper Yamaha motocrosser was the DT2MX in 1972.
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/dt2mx.jpg)
Title: Re: First Japanese Dirt Bikes?
Post by: the stig on May 13, 2012, 08:34:48 pm: Well i am stretching the memory bucket here but
i thought Yamaha's 1st prody scramble bike was a
250 twin more or less the RD250 road bike motor .
and it was called just that 250 Scrambler..
I think someone called Don that worked for Milledge
brothers rode it at Christmas Hills First time out it
had nothing below 4000 revs it was made for the
American Type of Racing but a failure as a Scramble
Bike..

The Stig..
Title: Re: First Japanese Dirt Bikes?
Post by: the stig on May 13, 2012, 08:55:30 pm: Come to think of it .it may of only been a 175 or 200 twin

As the Japanese only made most of there motors after 175cc

200cc 400cc 600cc back then..

The Stig..
Title: Re: First Japanese Dirt Bikes?
Post by: firko on May 13, 2012, 10:29:03 pm: Quote
The RT1MX was supplied from the Yamaha factory as a motocross only model with the 21in front wheel and marketed as purpose built MX weapon
I know what you're saying but the DT1MX and RT1MX were based on the existing enduro version while the DT2MX was a new from the ground up design with no enduro connections. The DT2 Enduro was based on tye old DT1 and a totally different frame to that of the DT2MX. Hardly any parts flowed over from the Enduro to the MX.
I had a genuine yellow stripe RT1MX back in the day and my mate had a GYT kitted RT1 Enduro and there was little difference, bar his red stripe and my chrome bore.
Title: Re: First Japanese Dirt Bikes?
Post by: firko on May 13, 2012, 10:59:05 pm: Quote
by: the stig
IWell i am stretching the memory bucket here but
i thought Yamaha's 1st prody scramble bike was a
250 twin more or less the RD250 road bike motor .
I doubt that many (if any) of these Yamaha's were ever sold or whether they could be considered a proper production motocrosser but they're a unique bit of kit with a great story.
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/YAMAHAYD250CATALINA1958_2.jpg)
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/YAMAHAYD250CATALINA1958_1.jpg)
http://www.classicyams.com/race-bikes/early-factory-racers/yamaha-yd-racer-catalina-gp.html (http://www.classicyams.com/race-bikes/early-factory-racers/yamaha-yd-racer-catalina-gp.html)
Title: Re: First Japanese Dirt Bikes?
Post by: farmpro on May 13, 2012, 11:49:11 pm: The first Japanese bikes I remember here in the states in order were the Suzuki RH67,Kawasaki F21M and Bridgestone 100 & 175 Racers.All were pretty limited production but did come out of the crate ready to race.Kawasaki F81M & G31M came a little later also in small quantities.Next the DT & RT2MX's which appear to be the first really mass produced racers.

Bill Davis Texas Vintage Racing Club
Title: Re: First Japanese Dirt Bikes?
Post by: Tim754 on May 14, 2012, 02:32:50 pm: Hodaka had their Ace 100 MX (AKA Super Rat) about for public purchase in 69.
Title: Re: First Japanese Dirt Bikes?
Post by: the stig on May 14, 2012, 08:18:58 pm: Yamaha made there first Scramble bike in 1963 it was called the
AS1 250 scrambler made for there domestic market they bought
a few to Australia in the 60s but could not sell them.
If you got a spare couple of Hours Google in( Early Yamaha Scramble
motor cycles ) there are some good links on this subject .
Yes a Variant of the DT250 MX250 was the there first World Scramble
bike thanks to the Yanks..

The Stig