OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: Curly3 on May 10, 2012, 06:54:03 pm
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Not directly bike related but it affects all of us.
I'm a self employed tradesman and have had income protection with the same insurer for nearly 20 years without ever making a claim.
4 weeks ago I broke my leg racing and started the claim process pretty well straight away and the amount of paperwork and detailed questions involved is staggering, I still haven't heard back and have a big concern that my claim will be knocked back.
What are your experiences and which insurer do you think offers the best deal for an old fart who races?
Cheers, Steve
P.S. The leg is healing well so far but I'll be off work for at least another 4 weeks.
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Hi SR,
It's interesting that you started this topic. I broke my leg 2 weeks ago at the first Viper round.
I have been self employed all my life except the last year. I now work in the Victorian construction industry and part of our EBA is accident and sickness insurance. This was one of the reasons I decided to start racing for this year. I had been told the insurance was for wages only but for up to 3 years, no exclusions.
Now that I have been talking with them about my break, I find out that there is one exclusion and that is professional or non professional sport, including training for. I have no cover. I will be about $8000 out of pocket from what I thought I would get.
Not only is this a big financial problem, it really means that I can't ever race again.
Does anyone know if there would be an insurance to cover these exclusions?
Cheers, Grahame
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Shit Grahame that sux, fffffffffing fine print.
Macho Mick went through the same thing last year and was insured with Combined, they have been providing insurance for motorsport for a long time, I had a policy with them when I did my shoulder way back in 70's, they were known as Combined American then and I didn't realise they were still around.
I don't know what they charge, Mick?
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I had Combined Insurance while I was self employed. I tried to claim once (20+years of premiums) and then found it only covered me if I spent 1 day in hospital minimum. Because I didn't stay in hospital at all then I couldn't claim for the 5 weeks off work. Screwed by fine print again.
The good thing about all this is that my broken fibula is a clean and uncomplicated break and I should be back at work soon. My boss is great, but not too keen on my continued racing career.
Cheers, Grahame
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Interesting timing, just met with my insurance broker this arvo. I'm with AIA for my income protection, might be a good time to go through the fine print?
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I looked into it a while ago, the policy i looked at which was reasonably priced would insure for a social ride, but not for competition. I reckon it would be typical of any insurance co to even wiggle out of paying whilst social riding. They would find some excuse -like the tyres on your bike don't comply with rego, or the bike is modified etc etc.
Brett
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they have always looked after me!,slidey, not sure how much i pay,roughly grand a year i think?,(part of thats sickness/diseases/death, which ever comes 1st??)they are the only ones to insure you whilst racing,some where on the forum we've discussed this before,as they were changing their minds this year for new applicants (typical ::)),i've been paid for crashes in NZ,Nepean, Buladelah,a biggie at broadford,thank the lord ambo rides is compulsory insurance! (HCF for me),bit of paper work involved,mainly they like whichever docs treating you at the time to fill them in,was interesting every visit at John Hunter was a different intern,think they escalated my injury level with "doc speak",i know i was confused, ;), :P
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Guys,
I have insurance with combined and has been great for racers but as of June they will not cover what they call extreme sports Motorbike riding/racing ,Horse racing etc. but they will cover you for football injuries (cant work that out ???go to the hospital on Saturday and see how many football injuries there are compered to Motorcycles)
Good news they have told me that if you have the insurance before the cutoff date you will still be fully covered motorbike racing included
So if you are thinking about it you better get a riggle on
Cheers
Fatboy
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Do you have a Phone number?
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I only have my local guy look them up on the internet for your local brockers
Combined insurance they are a national company should be easy to find
Cheers
Fatboy
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1300 300 480
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My income protection insurance won't cover me to race - so no racing. Can't take the risk.
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I had Combined Insurance while I was self employed. I tried to claim once (20+years of premiums) and then found it only covered me if I spent 1 day in hospital minimum. Because I didn't stay in hospital at all then I couldn't claim for the 5 weeks off work. Screwed by fine print again.
That sounds odd as they are usually the only insurance that pay up without drama.
Haven't been with then for decades now but from what I remember it was only the doctors certificate that was needed.
I haven't bothered with insurance/ income protection for years, I read the fine print and there are so many outs for them that it seems pointless to fork out the dough if they are going to shirk paying.
I decided I would be better off putting a grand in the bank every year (and of course I don't) to cover myself
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GMC is right they have so many exclusions its only worth it if you seriously injure yourself at work.Insurance companies are in the business of collecting premiums not paying out on claims :(
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So why doesn't MA cover us through the FIM??
I had Combined when I went to Europe-the only ones that would cover us-cost about $750.00 a year back in 1987 :o.
I have had talks with a rep but they are always trying to up-sell and the cover is getting more vague by the minute.
It's a risk we have to take I guess-the cost of good fun.
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That's not good Graeme and I'm sorry to hear that.
I worked for myself for years (up until very recently) and didn't bother with accident insurance. There always seemed to be too much fine print.
One of the big incentives for being self-employed was that I could race without a boss always giving me the sermon from the mount about giving me the arse if I injured myself. :(
It's a toughie I know but for me, living my life the way I want to is more important than keeping 'The Man' happy.
And yes it also shits me that It's ok to injure yourself on the footie field ("Well done son. I remember when I was 80 kilos lighter and playing for the Wangabean Wankers blah, blah") but if you tweak your knee in a big rut on a Sunday It's "See ya later Freddie....."
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As far as I know combined are the only company that will cover you on a motorcycle but I think you need to say that you were riding not racing as no cover for racing, they will annoy the piss out of you all the time to keep upgrading your policy but I have found recently that there premiums are getting a lot dearer & unless you get really messed up you don't get a lot back, but it's a risky sport & there the only real option.
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Doesn't seem like there are too many options available for us.
When I was in hospital awaiting my operation there were 3 other people also in the same boat, one from Netball & two from Rugby League.
I'm surprised there isn't something available through MA.
I've put my hand up for the MNSW Classic Dirt Track comittee may be something we can look into.
Sounds like if we could get something organised we might see more people out there having a go, I'm reluctant to take the risk again.
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I think they look at the "total and permanant disability" thing and go 'nope-too hard' but there must be a system that FIM can put in place.
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I'm self employed also and snapped the Tib/Fib in October last year on an organised trail ride.
I have an expensive loss of income policy with One Path that supposedly covers me for all bike riding and even racing (but probably not road racing due to the high speed).
I had a look at the claim form they sent out and was put off straight away by the ridiculous amount of stupid info they wanted filled in. Also, a fortnight has passed while I was ass up on the hospital bed and the couch unable to move much.
The hospital had big trouble filling out a simple form for an airline so I could attemp to claim back a fare that I couldn't use. I really can't imagine that they could have satisfied the insurance company..
Anyhow, as I run a business, I had to get others to fill in for me and keep the thing going while I was on the couch. I was able to do some paperwork on the laptop (while watching bike DVD's). In the end, my wages got paid and I didn't lose any money therefore no loss of income. No claim possible.
The whole incident cost a lot of money and time but no claim possible. Would be worth it if I got totally written off and they honoured a claim, but I have been thinking of dumping it and going back to Combined.
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Basically if we want to do the sport we all enjoy we do so at "our own risk" no one is going to cover us these days as i have had income protection for years but in closer reading i will not be covered in the event of an accident in the class of "extreme sports", it is a pain because the sport i love so much is almost out of reach because of the thought in the back of my head,broken bone=6 weeks minimum off work,at the stage im at,Mortgage,kids etc i basically enter each vinduro knowing if i crash hard im responsible for what happens next.
cheers Dale.
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Sadly I think that's our lot Dale, but I struggle to see how old ( carefull ) guys riding old bikes can be classified as an extreme sport?, ignorance on behalf of the number crunchers.
Unfortunately since 9/11 and given the natural disasters our fellow Aussies have suffered in the last few years, we don't have a lot of choice.
I suppose my situation, riding well within myself and being run into by another rider shows how easily our "Hobby" can go sour.
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in the vmx /vinduro /vintage dirt track circles when someone has an off at an event and is out of action work wise for a while we have someone to ask them or their family if they need assistance then let us know and you just send a little something to help them along , old proverb 'many hands make light work' all anon donations ;D
maybe it would be good to a have a wounded section on the forum, and people close by could lend a hand
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very good Taka-I don't mean Takas are very good-at least not the ones I rode. I mean that is a very good idea mr Taka san.
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the one i had ' brand new ' flew straight past those lobito's and alpina's my mate's had , it was known as the 'tinny 'taka around the streets of port macquarie :D
even huskibul and his little 'bikey gang on their xr's could only follow the smoke trail.
http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x345/branchy97/taka100.jpg
http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x345/branchy97/rockfordtaka100.jpg
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Just got off the phone with choosi,they deal with different companies to get the best deal,they directed me to Real Insurance who have a policy called Real Bill Cover.
I quizzed them about a motorsports exclusion,they do not exclude it unless you are riding professionally,There is a 30 day waiting period though so no good if you are only off work for a couple of weeks but good if you bang yourself up pretty bad.
My Quote was for $2500 per month benefit,46yo non smoker was $1190 per year.
choosi.com.au realinsurance.com.au
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Thanks Smed, that's a ship load cheaper than what I have been paying.
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Have just finished "going through the hoops" with both "Real Insurance" and "Combined Insurance".
For new policies, both of them will not cover any form of competitive motorcycle sport amateur or professional or practice.
Real Insurance said that any form of competition on a motorcycle or in a car is an exclusion.
Combined Insurance said that any activity on a dirt bike whether it is racing or riding round the paddock is an exclusion.
So, unless somebody has got some other ideas it seems that we are out on our own.
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So, unless somebody has got some other ideas.........
Golf, following the footie, build a garage queen. There's plenty of ways to a long, drawn out death..... :'(
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Obviously there are some of us that are in a position where 1,2 or 6 months off work isn't of a concern, lucky you, but to the self employed tradie who is responsible for their own insurances it is becoming an ever increasing problem.
People bring up the topic of dwindling numbers from time to time and I reckon this is one of the biggest reason.
I put this question out there to see who's got what insurance and who they're with.
If you don't have anything positive to add to the debate then don't get involved.
Thanks for the feedback Gippslander, hopefully we can get something out of this.
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I remember back in '63 [yeah, I know, old farts memory time] I had a policy with Combined Ins. Co. of A. and broke my left wrist scayfoid bone.
I put on the claim form 'Fell off my motorcycle while racing at Arcadia.'
They paid up no probs. For three months till I was passed as fit.
I asked the sales rep would he come out to our club meeting night and sign up some more riders.
He came to our meeting and explained the ins. works on numbers and would only sign up any more riders from opu club on condition that ALL members got a policy. Some wouldn't so no deal.
It occurs to me that if C.I.C.of.A was approached with a sizable number of customers [which spreads the risk] maybe they would come to the party??
cheers pancho.
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Pancho, I also had a policy with Combined of America back in 77 and had 8 months off work due to a crash at the old Syd Showground, given I was a first year apprentice on $58.00 a week, my policy as well as the government's sickness benefits meant I was getting more than double that, I was 17 & thought I was a millionaire.
As we know times have changed heaps since then, from early on people took injuries as just a part of the life experience and no one knew about compensation, not the case today.
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Fark. Things don't change do they? :D
I didn't realize that every post on here had to be positive to your point of view.
I have been self employed for about ten years. I'm just recently become an employee again. In that time I've had some massive offs that put me out of work for substantial periods of time but life went on. I think I'm entitled to an opinion and that is........
It's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees. (Apologies to Midnight Oil)
It's no use having a whine that the insurance companies are pricks. Everyone knows that. You either ride/race or you don't.
Pretty simple I would have thought. ::)
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From what my broker told me recently if you haven't negotiated coverage via a real 'income protection' insurance policy, then the terms can change at any time. I'm only going on what I've been told, but Combined offer a product which is classed as General Insurance and as such the policy can be changed at any time to exclude whatever they deem relevant. So even if you're currently insured with them you may want to check you're still covered for VMX etc.
My policy with AIA/AIG was written up with clear disclosure of my participation in VMX at a club level. ie non-championship no sheep-stations stuff.
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Oh No !!
Quote MWA:Share the message below with your friends regards Combined Insurance pulling the pin on motorcyclists. BTW when I spoke to them withdrawing services had nothing to do with high claims.
Quote from MWA
Urgent Info regards Combined Insurance policy holders.
Below is a copy of a message sent to Combined Insurance senior managers. Am I cross, you bet.
Very disappointing to learn from your help line that all your new policies from November will exclude motorcycle related injuries . I represent Motorcycling Western Australia and as we have an interest in the welfare of our members we will be inform...ing ALL of our 25,000 members many of whom have policies with Combined that your organisation no longer is interested in the business of looking after motorcycle customers. For those existing policy holders that I know are still covered we will be encouraging to source alternative coverage from other insurers who are motorcycle friendly. I talked to Combined senior management early this year who assured me this change was not occurring. As you are clearly not interested in further business from motorcyclists please remove the picture of the young rider from your pds it is misleading and insulting. Could I also advise that in order for your frontline staff to be actually informative about major changes to policy such as this that they are given information that is timely and accurate, your office struggled to answer my questions and the actual answers had to be forced. For all your reps that are calling my office wanting contacts to sell new policies to our members, you can be assured they will get short shrift. We have promoted your services for a long time and will refuse to do so anymore. Please pass this message on to your senior management.
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Thanks for posting that Alison, I haven't been with Combined for over 30 years but heard that that's what they intended.
We're becoming " Lepper"s ", I think it's all about what their underwriter's want them to do but it doesn't sound good for us.
I'm still weighing up if I'll actually race again, maybe I need to get in before November to be safe?
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Hmmm, over the years I have pulled much more out of Combined than I have put in, was almost a professional crasher for a while there :-)
If Combined was to stop covering motorcyclists, I guess my next claim would be from a fall off my skateboard :-)
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Or you swerved to miss a kid & fell out of bed, do they cover carpet burn?
In all honesty this is a serious issue for us which is why I raised this topic, when combined pull the pin there won't be many options.
As with you John, I have a mate who's son races MX and has claimed more than he's paid over the years without a hiccup.
From what I can tell they will continue any existing policies.
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quote from Perth WA :
had my combined insurance rep out yesterday as i was concerned about this issue and he stated that so long as the policy is in place before the November cut off date, the policy would remain valid so long as it was maintained, so if you havent got any cover for racing, you need to get the policy going now. :)
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I'd be checking that with another source or getting it in writing from someone in authority. The reps are paid on commision.
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No, that is the case. If you're a bike-racing policy holder and are signed up before the end of October, you are covered. Of course reps are paid on commission. Doesn't necessarily mean they are swindlers. I have had a few claims with Combined and they have stumped up every time.
Call my rep if you like, Andrew Robinson 0433 242 959.
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I've been told the type of insurance policy combined offer can be changed at any stage, obviously you'd be notified. It just means that you may not be 'locking in' certain conditions just because you've signed up by xyz date.
No skin off my nose either way, just thought people should check things out for themselves.