OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => British (BSA, Greeves, Triumph etc) => Topic started by: VMX60 on December 11, 2011, 10:46:39 pm
-
Hey Guys
This years summer project started a few years ago then all those Ossa got in the way
Plan B is along with Tossa rickman ??
Metisse Frame
CZ 4 speed early 250cc straight fin motor
Betor forks
Ossa Phantom wheels or Husky/CZ
Tank ???
Have all the f/glass apart from a tank
(http://i39.tinypic.com/16kw5s9.jpg)
(http://i40.tinypic.com/2qa7d6r.jpg)
(http://i44.tinypic.com/1565nv4.jpg)
What model tank will fit this frame looks to be two rear pin mount
Cheers
-
Murray is that the Montessa frame the cradle is different to mine. PM'd you details regarding tank
-
There's not much that'll fit the little Micro Metisse frame or your Rickman Monty frame other than the standard steel tank or a set of Flower Pot Bens Mk3 repro tanks made specifically for the frame. The problem is the twin top tubes being too wide for most tank tunnels made for single top tube frames. Even full sized Mk3 & Mk4 tanks (too big) or Bultaco Petite Metisse ( bottom "sump'' on tank won't fit between top rails) miss out. I've tried a lot of different tanks and ended up purchasing a set of Bens Mk3 style f/glass for my own Micro Metisse project.
-
I've sent Murray Bens email. he's recommended a Mk4 tank for my project
-
Tossa/Firko
The early mk3 tank Ben made for you is it f/glass or metal with the rear mount pins fitted
The alloy tt Tank is a close fit tunnel wise but would need mounts made and panelbeat to shape to get it lower on the frame
Tossa your tank is being made to your frame specs NEW
The frame is a Montesa single downtube your twin rail frame would suit a Ossa motor ;D
The tanks on USA ebay never come up with the right rear mount
:-\
Thanks
-
The early mk3 tank Ben made for you is it f/glass or metal with the rear mount pins fitted
They're fibreglass Murray....and gorgeous but I'm not sure what you mean by rear pins. I'll post photos tomorrow.
-
Hey Firko
This photo of the the round rear mounting of something which to me are for the tank with the front top mounting I could be wrong never seen under side of the real Montesa tank
Thanks for following this up
Cheers
(http://i43.tinypic.com/27y5rnb.jpg)
-
Those mounts aren't on my frame. It's a Zundapp version.
-
Looks like the two round mount are for the Tank
Photo is Rickman Montesa anybody out there have a tank to suit this model
(http://i44.tinypic.com/15znp8i.jpg)
Cheers
-
evening all.
That frame is a Montessa Metisse. You can get lots in there. A unit Triumph will go in nicely if you hav ethe time, skill and know how. I have pics of one that late great Pat French did (Mojo helped him, infact I think Mark did the work....)
The pins are two steel rods that point out from the back of the tank and locate into the holes. The plate is brazed in place on some frames and bolted on in others. A tank with no pins should fit fine. That type of tank is held in place by the seat base, the pins give better location, you can see why they did it to stop the tank riding up at the back.
Either tank will fit.
I have steel both types if reqd, but they are readily available on ebay autos in America.
Beautiful alloy ones are available (made by craftsmen and priced accordingly)
The MK4 fibreglass tank will fit that frame and new ones are made to order (Barry, spoke to THE man today, news update to follow)
You can also fit the MK3 style tank with the later underside (special mould has been made to do this) to allow it to go over the frame rails and instantly make the bike look like the earlier versions.
I think that covers it ~ all the bases are covered!
-
That frame is a Montessa Metisse. You can get lots in there. A unit Triumph will go in nicely if you have the time, skill and know how. I have pics of one that late great Pat French did (Mojo helped him, infact I think Mark did the work....)
I bought a Rickman Montesa frame specifically to fit an XL Honda 350 engine but once I had it on the bench it became pretty obvious that the Honda lump wouldn't fit without a lot of intrusive surgery. The problem with the Honda engine fitting is there being no room for the sump. To make it fit so the crank/drive sprocket centre line is parallel with the swing arm pivot the whole bottom cradle would have to be lowered or/ removed all together and use the engine as a stressed member (not ideal on a motocrosser). I'm guessing that most wet sump 4 strokes will have the same problem but can see the possibility of perhaps a unit BSA or T100R Triumph going in with less surgery.
As far as fitting non Montesa 2 strokes, it comes down to the engine having to have a side exhaust port to clear the single downtube and the engine be no larger in overall length than the original Monty motor. The CZ seems to be a good choice and I know that a TM400 motor will fit with ease.
It's kind of ironic that the twin downtube Zundapp Micro frame has a much larger frame cradle than it's "bigger" 250 Montesa brother. You can fit just about every centre port two stroke (although minor case 'trimming' is needed to fit a Maico engine)...that's why, after much thought I've decided that was not something I wanted to do to one of my beloved square barrel motors so it's to be replaced with the Cooper 250 motor mentioned elsewhere on the forum. I've seen engines ranging from Triumph 500 down to the little SL125 Honda (Ugly Betty) and they all look comfortable in there. I doubt that Derek and Don Rickman ever envisioned their little frames to be homes for such a diverse selection of motors but I think they'd thoroughly approve ;D.
-
Ben/Firko
This Forum at its best suppling the correct infro not only to me but to all world wide on the rare Metisse models
And to make those oneoff specials we all love
Cheers
-
Here's a nice example of yet another Rickman Zundapp conversion....this time using a BSA B25 motor as seen on Marks Swapmeet this morning http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/largephoto.cgi?C=bDSQ2bUS5UuPFVCe&w=2 (http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/largephoto.cgi?C=bDSQ2bUS5UuPFVCe&w=2).
Theses little bikes can be quite addictive, another forum member has been in touch telling me that he's recently bought a Micro Metisse and hopes to fit a Husky 250 motor. (although I can see exhaust clearance problems with that particular choice)
I keep changing my mind on mine...I started with the intention of fitting one of my beloved DT1 engines but soon moved over to liking the look of the square barrel Maico sitting in there. Unfortunately the Maico engine cases need a bit of trimming to make the swap feasible and I'm not very keen on cutting up a hard to find Squarie motor so..........the latest candidate is my Cooper-Moto Islo 250 engine for no other reasons than 1: It fits like a cock in a sock, 2: It's just weird enough to satisfy my sense of humour and 3: My Cooper motor is complete, in perfect condition and hot to trot.
Here's the Micro Beeza
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/RICKMANB25A.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/RICKMANB25.jpg)
-
will get tank over to you next week murray
Barry
-
Here's a shot of Jonesy's 'Ugly Betty' Rickman
Zundapp SL125 Honda. Kevlar Kompound CD6.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Wild20violet.jpg)
The Honda SL125 swap is one of the more popular using the Micro frame.....here's another one.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/RickmanHonda-1-900x600.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/RickmanHonda-2-900x600.jpg)
-
I like it ;D other than pipe/muffler ::)
-
CZ project is starting to come along after getting a steering stem shaft made to fit ossa yokes to the rickman up pops a set of correct rickman parts on USA Ebay they have just arrived fitted new bearing plus 35mm betors with a ossa front wheel looks ok
Rear wheel is Husky offset for chain line ???
(http://i40.tinypic.com/54hqmg.jpg)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/65oo.jpg)
Plus change model of CZ motor going to 5 speed 1974 with the slip on ex pipe to clear the frame tube
Still lots to do
Cheers
-
nice work
-
I love this stuff ;D. This is going to be a great little bike. How is the exhaust clearance? A fellow forum member is contemplating fitting a Husky 250 motor to his Micro Metisse (as I indicated elsewhere) and I figured that the Husky sideport would foul the downtube. If the CZ clears just maybe the Husky will too which will make him a happy camper as he's a Husky racer with plenty of spares.
What bodywork are you using? Are you going to stick with that Yamaha tank or will you go back to the stock setup? I'm looking forward to getting back into my little Rickman project once the current projects are out of the way.
-
Spot the forum members in the above photo of AJ's Rickman
-
Dave T ( yellow shirt ) - Mike J (In black) and Ned Kelly ;D
-
well done old fart-we are the eyecatchers Alison was talking about....lol
-
Dave T (Suzuki211) ( yellow shirt ) - Mike J (Bazza) (In black) and Ned Kelly
Good Stu...but who's the bloke next to Ugly Betty wearing the Husky Jersey and the fella walking away with the helmet? Note my trials Maico, Jeep and Hindall Ducati in the trailer ;)
-
Husky Pete next to Betty :) Jeff K walking away ??? CD5 Raymond terrace :)
-
Husky Pete next to Betty Jeff K walking away CD5 Raymond terrace
Correctomundo Bill, it's indeed Husky Pete but its Mark Austin in the welly's walking away, in the mud at CD5.
-
I'm more concerned with the guy in the trenchcoat in the background :D
-
Firko
The CZ Exhaust will clear even with the early bolt up flange being a two part pipe the header can be offset to right side by pivoting a few mm
The Husky has a bolt up flange but the one piece up pipe header angle could be a pain to fit if using a std Husky pipe bit of cutting maybe sure it could be made to fit as the Husky bike has single downtube frame but with the twin tube frame :-\
My f/glass is new plain white gel coat mk4 Montesa has the high front guard like to go with a low early type with the metal mk4 tank that Tossa found with his motor deal
What colour to paint no idea as yet
Cheers and get well soon all your projects are waiting
-
Update on the CZ / Rickman
Motor all done 5 speed with Motoplat 34mm mikuni
Rear Husky wheel has to much offset to get the chain line so have to go with the matching set of Ossa Phantom wheels waiting on a rear brake plate assy ex USA plus a ACK inlet for the Mikuni
Overall on track for a TUNING DAY in May at Narrogin ::)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/7174m0.jpg)
(http://i44.tinypic.com/ka5iyb.jpg)
Cheers
-
Looking good Murray I'd better get that tank down to you, hopefully friday. Are you going to the tuning weekend this weekend
-
Hi Barry
No tuning day for me but the blue ossa is still here to have a look at when you can drop the tank off
Thanks Again
Murray
-
Finally had parts arrive from USA
ack inlet to suit CZ
new rear Phantom brake shoe springs
So now we are getting there ossa Phantom wheels all done Ex pipe fitted
(http://i43.tinypic.com/345zwr8.jpg)
(http://i40.tinypic.com/searsp.jpg)
Cheers
-
Looking great....I love the Mk3 'glass! Is there any engine that doesn't look at home in the little Micro Metisse?....it could possibly be Derek and Dons most versatile frame design. 8)
-
OOPS!!!!!!!!! still got your tank you home on Saturday i'll drop it down
-
Looking great....I love the Mk3 'glass! Is there any engine that doesn't look at home in the little Micro Metisse?....it could possibly be Derek and Dons most versatile frame design. 8)
Come on firko, you know better than that. No Mk3 stuff there.
Looks good all the same. Motor fits lovely.
Now that exhaust. It is going to take some getting used to.......
-
Come on firko, you know better than that. No Mk3 stuff there.
It's the drugs Ben...... ::)
btw Ben, thanks for the book mate....great read.
-
more books available if reqd. Can get them signed also which make a good book even better.
Saw the book at a flashy swap meet recently for twice the price and no signatures. Also available in the US and more than twice the price....
Perhaps I should get a few in for the pension fund?!?!?
-
OK all the bits are bolted on cables done pipe mounted Tossa tank fitted
Big Question want colour to paint it .looking at the Rickman/ Metisse Photos all the colours seam to have be used over the years
The only colour for a CZ might be the Orange off a sidepipe Zed :-\
Firko Help ????
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2z6z4hy.jpg)
-
Only my opinion but I'd opt for one of the blue colours maybe the dark one.A bit left field but I reckon a metalflake like the Greeves blue would look ace. :)
-
purple then you can park it next to mine. i know that would be a great honour for you!!!lol
-
Yellow or silver
-
I'd vote for a yellow, darkish though. Not Suzuki yellow
-
Thanks Guys
No Barry two purple rickmans in the pits people will start to talk :D
To keep a bit of the CZ side alive going to go with
CZ/RUSSIA TRACTOR ORANGE I think the tanks where the same colour ;D
Cheers
-
I've always wondered what a silver Metisse would look like. I like the idea of gunmetal grey as well but those bloody Steve McQueen Metisse ripoffs are painted that colour. There's a fluro orange 500 Triumph Metisse here in Sydney (which hasn't been seen for a couple of years come to think of it) which looks spectacular, if a tad out of era unconventional ;D.
-
Firko
No Fluro colours came out of CZ factory just shit Mustard yellow and crap Orange ;D
The dull eastern block , way back when. Comrade
Cheers
-
Great build Murray. I like yr intended colour choice too. Love to see it when its done
-
Jeez VMX60, the red-framed Falta replicas were positively funky while Honda still had black frames and silver tanks - then Honda pinched the red frame idea from CZ... :)
-
Husky 70
The Falta model were works copy Factory bikes cool pity there not pre74
Before that you must admite CZ range where Dull in the looks race
Great race bikes to this day had 35 Zeds at one Narrogin race meeting here in the West
-
I thought that Honda stole the red frame from Maico?
-
Nope, Maicos had silver frames (and, earlier, black) until the 77 AW models. IIRC Honda frames went red in 76 - others will know more though.
-
Sorry, I don`t like the look of the bike. cz engine doen`t suit the frame, I would fine a cz frame.
-
Sorry, I don`t like to look of the bike. cz engine doen`t suit the frame, I would fine a cz frame.
If you don't like the look of VMX60's Rickman CZ DBA you're going to positively hate my upcoming Maico Metisse built using the same basic Rickman Zundapp frame. CZ powered CZs are behind every bush but a CZ Metisse is something unique. Dare to be different Murray 8).
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/maicometisse002.jpg)
-
I have seen that creation before, and it looks good, I just see the cz engine is more suited to its original frame, I think the barrels on the maico help it look more suited as they are teller barrels for a metisse frame.
-
I love the look of the CZ motor in that frame, but then I reckon they look good at any time. I too have a Montesa Rickman frame in the wings (thanks Firko) that I thought would be a good recipient for a Cooper motor. Another idea for another day ::)
-
I thought would be a good recipient for a Cooper motor. Another idea for another day
I may put my Cooper engine in my little Metisse yet Monte. I've stuck a few in there including a Triumph 500 and they all fit, the Cooper (Moto Islo) being the neatest. However I find it hard to go past the visual impact the Maico engine provides. I'm not building mine as a serious race bike, it's to be more a Classic Dirt/Bonanza fun bike. With a pre 75 frame pre 65 bodywork and a pre 70 engine it doesn't fit comfortably into any category except the fun factor category ;D.
-
I like the look of the engine in the metisse, a smaller tank would look better in my eyes though as that 1 looks enormous. Other thing I think you need to look at is the Falta pipe you've fitted which is not the most attractive, the earlier pipes look nicer to my eyes
Colour wise have a look at the photos of my 380, the orange is lighter/brighter than a sidepiper & could be worth looking at
http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=5125.15
Bound to be a few shots in daylight of it on the livewire site
-
Would an xl250 or 350 fit in one of those frames?
-
Firko
Thanks for the encouragement we all like to think we have different ideas
Tony
Agree with you but the only tank that fits is a rickman . Ben in the UK can do the early mk3 top with mk4 bottom to fit this frame very nice in f/glass all at a price . Trying to use parts out of my shed that Falta pipe is the only spare pipe as would have to rob one off a complete running CZ bike or buy one off GMC ;D
This project was mainly to build a race bike out of spares that I have collected over the years
Also two Zundapp have just poped up on Ebay in Victoria with the larger twin rail cradle for the 4 stroke projects
Cheers
-
Also two Zundapp have just poped up on Ebay in Victoria with the larger twin rail cradle for the 4 stroke projects
Cheers
That is why I asked. Thanks.
-
Would an xl250 or 350 fit in one of those frames?
Another project to keep Dad busy? Don't forget I've still got this BSA project to get going
-
Would an xl250 or 350 fit in one of those frames?
Another project to keep Dad busy? Don't forget I've still got this BSA project to get going
you bet ;)
-
brad
i belive you had a czxl350 it was sold on again. i am told the young bloke who rides it is very fast on it so if you come to canberra for the dirt track nats you will be lining up next to it i am sure.
jim
-
Would an xl250 or 350 fit in one of those frames?
Also two Zundapp have just poped up on Ebay in Victoria with the larger twin rail cradle for the 4 stroke projects
I'm confident that an XL would fit in the Rickman Zundapp frame but for a couple of points that I'm not sure about. Being a twin downtube frame and the Honda engine being side port the possibility of exhaust clearance could raise it's ugly head. The other point alludes to Murrays statement about the later frame with the larger cradle being a better bet for the 4 stroke.....The Honda XL250/350 has a deep sump that sometimes makes using this motor for engine swaps a bit tricky. Because of the sump I suspect that some of the bottom rail tubing may have to be removed on that particular frame. I'm using the '73 model 1" tubing frame that doesn't have that extra tubing in the bottom rails and I think the Honda would fit in there like a cock in a sock, ditto the earlier 7/8" tubing frames like Jonesy used for Ugly Betty his Honda SL125 powered Rickman. I bought a single downtube Rickman Montesa frame from the USA with the notion of fitting an XL motor and quickly discovered that I had Buckleys chance of fitting it in because of the sump. Surprisingly, the Rickman Montesa 250 frame has a smaller cradle than that of the little 125 Zundapp version.
-
mark i have the right motor for the early rickman montesas
came with my cappra.the p o is doing the same thing but he started his in june last year.
jim
-
Jim, that young man and his Dad racing the cz/honda are friends of my, spoke with them tonight, he is very quick and doing well on it, that bike I bought off Brad 090 couple of years ago, and sold it on, and its well sorted out now.
-
i know dave my brother is the starter at the track and i spoke to wayne last week
jim
-
After all this time the CZ lives
Lucky to find all the bits it been so long over the W/end it fired up sounds sweet
Unhappy with the paint maybe later on order a set of glass from Ben in the UK
Still a bit to do its a runner That will make me do the rest as a club bike should be good talking point
Cheers
(http://i47.tinypic.com/e6djk1.jpg)
(http://i50.tinypic.com/23lz7f6.jpg)
-
Great job Murray. It really does look like a factory job. The only thing I reckon it needs is a proper Rickman front 'guard, high or low it doesn't matter. It sure looks a lot better than what you started with ;).
I really must get into my little Micro/Cooper project once the current bikes are done, I love these little frames. I guess it'd be sensible to build it along side my Petite Mk3 Maico project and debut them together.
-
nice Murray. The zundapp motor is being rebuilt over the summer. How did you go airbox wise did you make one to fit. Ben has sorced a seat for me and having it recovered in UK before sending over. The petcock (metric/AF)? Want to have mine running this year and hopefully run it at the NATS in Canberra. Once again brilliant work mate
Barry
-
Firko/ Tossa
This project started as a build from what was in the shed the std high guard in the 1st Photos back on page 2 I have, but I have this thing about Alloy and the low guard was in stock and keep looking at those Alloy side cover pairs on UK Ebay
Only parts brought
Tank from Tossa
Rickman seat
Top trees USA Ebay
Rear Phantom brake shoes and springs
Ack CZ intake
Not a bad list to get this up and running looking Factory ;)
Also this is a race bike after one lap they all look the same covered in mud ;D
Cheers
-
Tossa
Fuel tap on the Rickman tank was std pommy BSP Gas thread should be easy to buy
The airbox started as the Montesa glass copy so just cut and made to fit the Mikuni 34mm outlet then fitted a K+N filter
Who did you find to repair the Zundapp motor
Cheers
-
Paul Gibbs, we've got one and half motors to work with
-
The things you find in the your man cave
Looking for a sprocket cover to suit the CZ project and what do I find a F/glass WA made back in the 70s trick at that time cover
This might be the sole survivor :D
(http://i50.tinypic.com/3148s5f.jpg)
Cheers
-
I'm confident that an XL would fit in the Rickman Zundapp frame but for a couple of points that I'm not sure about. Being a twin downtube frame and the Honda engine being side port the possibility of exhaust clearance could raise it's ugly head. The other point alludes to Murrays statement about the later frame with the larger cradle being a better bet for the 4 stroke.....The Honda XL250/350 has a deep sump that sometimes makes using this motor for engine swaps a bit tricky. Because of the sump I suspect that some of the bottom rail tubing may have to be removed on that particular frame. I'm using the '73 model 1" tubing frame that doesn't have that extra tubing in the bottom rails and I think the Honda would fit in there like a cock in a sock, ditto the earlier 7/8" tubing frames like Jonesy used for Ugly Betty his Honda SL125 powered Rickman. I bought a single downtube Rickman Montesa frame from the USA with the notion of fitting an XL motor and quickly discovered that I had Buckleys chance of fitting it in because of the sump. Surprisingly, the Rickman Montesa 250 frame has a smaller cradle than that of the little 125 Zundapp version.
[/quote]
I think it was at the Earls Court Motorshow (my Dad went years ago) that Rickmans has on the stand a frame with an XL Motor in it. Honda went mad and refused to supply them with motors as it was better than there own offering I presume. Dad has pics somewhere and occassionally on ebay you see magazine articles about the bike. Not sure which motor they put in it. I will ask the oracle (Dad!)