OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Bike Talk => Topic started by: jimg1au on November 07, 2011, 09:06:40 pm
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hi
who has this kind of bike and what do you think of them
i have a staracer tt500 flattracker
(http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp221/jimg1au/flattrack/staracertt5001.jpg)
and soon a gen champion cr250m
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Even though they are basically a U.S. based bike, I think it's a class of bike that will only increase in popularity over here, Nepean Flattrack.
Sadly, at the expense of the Hagon based bikes which is our true heritage.
Flattrackers are easier to ride & more forgiving, for the more mature rider.
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amen to that slidey ;D. :P
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NAh its just cause there gearboxed and easy to get parts for, id run a slider but there hard to find, hard to find with a decent 2 stroker, and dont work so well on the smaller flip flop tracks. I got a few Flat trackers but same issue they dont suit many of our tracks. the MXers with a trails and decent brakes seem to fit 80% of the track we race better as most have a stupid right handed braking to a stop corner or too.
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i dont but if you got a spare bike or rolller i'll speak cash , they do look like a heap of fun even if you get it registered and go to the cafe' or just a pose run i think pre 70 something? you just have a headlight tail/brake light and you can put them on the road in nsw. anyone got any idea on that ???
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I've got my Hindall RT2 360 up and ready to go when I'm up and ready to go and will soon take delivery of my 'Champion' DT1 from the USA. I've also got the temporarily stalled Trackmaster 650 Benelli project and I'm slowly putting together the parts to build my other Trackmaster prototype XS750.
We're also soon to build the Klub Kevlar Kourtesy bike, turning the old VMX TM/TS 250 low buck project bike into an American style flat tracker.
I agree that flat trackers and sliders are compromised on our tracks fitted with right hand corners but with short track class being introduced on Nepeans brilliant quarter mike speedway, the proper flat tracker will have a proper place to play.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/IMG_6033.jpg)
Hindall frame, MX250 forks and triple clamps, 19"Akront front wheel/MX250 hub/Carlilse tyre. Rear is stock MX250 wheel w/Mitas trials tyre, Trackmaster tank, Matcho Mick seat/tail, Inter-Am solid alloy bars, DT1 levers/cables, billet Chinese pit-bike throttle, Donkey Dick grips. RT1 bottom end, DT2MX trans, mildly ported RT2 barrel, ACK head, Boyseen reeds, 34mm carb from a T500 Suzuki, Jemco pipe, DT400 CDI /PVL ignition (whichever works best). I'm about to fit a pair of adjustable rake billet triple clamps
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/IMG_5868.jpg)
Trackmaster frame, 650 Benelli Tornado engine, Yamaha R6 forks, either Yamaha alloy's (shown) or more likely Morris magnesium wheels, 19'' XR750 Harley front, Ex Eddie Lawson Kawasaki superbike 18''rear. This project has stalled for the moment but will resume when the interest comes back.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/07July27ChampionRollerDT1-1i.jpg)
The enroute from America 'Champion' DT1. The jury's out as to the frame's manufacturer until it gets here but it's close enough to being a Champion for me. Matcho Mick's currently coating the intended tank for it and I've already built a motor based of the old DT1 from Hell methanol motor.
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Ive got a really big one :P
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/MARCBIKE008.jpg)
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/star-stripe.jpg)
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I like Storz approach, take a current Sporty and then add tanks, exhaust etc .... now thats a coffee shop bike 8)
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/storz_xr1200r.jpg)
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As cool as those street trackers are Marc, it's not really what Jims asking...I'd hate to be throwing that big bwana around Nepeans speedway track! Even my under construction Benelli would be overkill.
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I like Storz approach, take a current Sporty and then add tanks, exhaust etc .... now thats a coffee shop bike 8)
Good as place as any i suppose while waiting for the tow truck to take you home ;D
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As cool as those street trackers are Marc, it's not really what Jims asking...I'd hate to be throwing that big bwana around Nepeans speedway track! Even my under construction Benelli would be overkill.
I thought he was talking about getting rego and going out for a coffee .... then you need a Harley or Douche ex Machina bobber snake maybe.
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I think that HD would be great to WATCH going around Nepean flat track [if they ever manage to get at least one big meet a year].
But the s/c [dirt track] events I like will always have at least one right hander, preferably one slow one and one sweeper.
I've often noticed that some very good dirt riders can't handle right handers.
When I first experienced coming off a bike while teaching myself out at the old abandoned Crossroads track I spent equal time specifically on left handers and them coming in the other way.
cheers pancho.
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Pancho, it not so much the riders are at fault ( although i have seen good Dt ridrs not able to stay upright on the speedway track)but the radius of the corners on the DT tracks dont suit slider lines anymore. and many track have these weirdo chicane things or stop and shoot corners, so there a long straight requiring 2 gear changes, and the a stop turn corner, they seem to cut them on an angle which is ok for MX bikes, but dont have the same flow as the slider line. If it was a Jelly bean - kidney shape would be better, but dont see to much of that. well except Griffith and fairburn park that i can think of.
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The thing is Freaky,even though these days I really enjoy riding my hybrid slider [XT powered Elstar] my riding style is more in keeping with handling a swinging arm road bike frame like a duplex Beeza.
So except when adrenalin's at its peak its slow in fast out! First lap flyer!
[See my line at the bottom!]
cheers pancho
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Another item on the Nepean agenda is to revive the old half mile long track extention. The top section fell out of use back in 80's or maybe 90's for a lot of reasons, one being the shape of the top corner making entry to the main straight a bit curly..centrifical force tending to push the bike dangerously close to the safety fence. I've been told the top corner is being re designed to make the entrance to the straight more flowing. Once that's fixed....the biggy flat trackers like Phippsy's Shell OW Yamaha 750 and AJ's Nourish Weslake (below) will be right at home.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Wessy.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/wessy2.jpg)
Jonesy's Redline Nourish Weslake 850
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/FT2.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/FT1.jpg)
Alans ATK DT500 flat tracker
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Got to admit Firko love the Hindalls and the ATK rocks, many paths to Nirvana my friend..... Jonesy's Nourish is cool, they are still producing engines at the Nourish factory, I was reading in Classic Racer that Dave still builds the odd engine well into his 70s.
God bless the 'Milers' eh .... try this new version by Sundance based on VERY trick 1200 engine
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/ga_xr_03.jpg)
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Mmmmm. that's my idea of a sweet Harley Marc. The Morris wheels on that bike are exactly what I've got for the Benelli Trackmaster project, I was going to do 'em black but the above Harley's given me an idea to paint them metallic gunmetal grey.
The wide 18" magnesium Morris back wheel that reputedly came from a period Kawasaki superbike (note screw holes in outer rim). I've also got a 19" XR750 front and rear, all picked up for less than 100 bucks each. The magnesium Morris wheels are getting hard to find but aluminium Sportster or close copy Kawasaki GPZ wheels are cheap and easy to find....but twice the weight.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/CIMG4235.jpg)
With the proposed rejuvenation of Nepeans long track it might just be the attraction to get many of the hidden jewels of Sydney out of their garage queen funk. I know of at least four serious XR750 Harley's, Phippsy's ex Eddie Lawson Shell Yamaha, a very cool Trackmaster BSA 750, Jack Steven's similar bike to Jonesy's Nourish Weslake, a number of Trackmaster, Champion, Redline etc powered Triumphs and XS650 Yamaha's and of course Herbie Conlon and his motley crew and their XS650 Yamaha's, we can potentially front enough bikes for a stand alone flat track meeting. It's not going to happen tomorrow but if we start the ball rolling now it can't be too far into the future. It's enough for me to get back into the Benelli project. ;D
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While this 750 Indian might be a tad out dated for the big banger class it's still a cool bit of kit. The bike's a recent import from the USA where it competed at the pointy end of the pre war class. It's currently getting a rebuild for a probable racing life down here. It's apparently very, very fast according to the forum member who's working on it for it's owner. Note the lack of brakes....something that might have to be addressed for our tracks!
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/indian.jpg)
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Mmmmm. that's my idea of a sweet Harley Marc.
Yeah that bike has probably 120+hp and 100 ftlbs of torque, motor is heavily based on S&S SB100 with Sundance XR heads and FCR41s. Propelling that much weight it would be an experience.
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Here's a few more shots of 'local' flat trackers to show that there's way more of these bikes out there that most would think.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/frankandbonanza155.jpg)
Champion XS750 Yamaha that was imported when it was new. It's sat in the owners garage for 20 years while he concentrated on speedway sidecars. He's promised to have it running cleanly once there's somewhere to race it.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/frankandbonanza235.jpg)
raked and lightened stock framed XS650. The photo was taken on the bike's debut at Broadford last year, this year it showed up with trick paint and a lot of bling..looking a million bucks and going really well.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/frankandbonanza169.jpg)
Sorry about the photo as this Trackmaster BSA A750 US import was a poster child for cutting edge early seventies half milers. Jonesy and Jack Stevens did some serious laps on it and report that once the carburetion is sorted, this'll be a very fast bike
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Kinda unusual to see a champion frame with trackmaster glass on it if it was bought new. Sure its not a fast back or somthing else
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Hopefully the Astro will be on the track this year if i pull my finger out.
(http://i852.photobucket.com/albums/ab85/bultaco_album/Copyofbullrally1.jpg)
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It's most certainly a Champion Freaky but maybe it wasn't "brand new".....let's settle for reasonablynew ;D
There's a Champion sticker on the other side of the swingarm but I haven't got a photo of that side (I just looked) ;).
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/frankandbonanza152.jpg)
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Mark 'Birko' Birketts Trackmaster Husky
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/trackyhusky.jpg)
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The gusset looks champion but the inside rails, swing arm with that rear block chain adguster and the lack of rear loop have me confused, must be a later model if it is like 78+. Looks more like a SHELL frame, does it have Oil in frame at the top ? or just the top tube ? Reckon its maybe just a sticker or just the swing arm ? like to see it with its covers off.
This is one of my short track frames for comparo but being one of the real early ones made ( ignore it has a YZ in it ATM ) look at the rear swing arm, its the same as the 68 DT 1 which is prity much what is it when you go over it. The swingarm in that one above is a much later concept / era at least if it is. Did he by the bike complete or just the frame kit ? and what year do you remember
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/munchboxlive/RIMG0714.jpg)
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Did he by the bike complete or just the frame kit ? and what year do you remember
I don't know anything other than what I wrote Freaky. I spoke to the bloke for about 3 minutes total, he told me it's a Champion and I had no reason to doubt him.
The swingarm is absolutely identical to the Champion swingarm I've got on my home made Trackmaster style frame. It looks like a Champion to me but does it matter? It's a nice bike, that'll polish up nicely when he finally gets to it.
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I have a Spanish flattracker. Needs some work for next years season, but that's cool, shit happens.
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I have a Spanish flattracker. Needs some work for next years season, but that's cool, shit happens
You, me and most of us brother. One bolt and nut at a time.... ;)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/8-24-2010_014.jpg)
Take no notice of my dumb backwards scan, this is Tommy Thompson on his rapid 750 Triumph Redline at Nepean back in the 90's. The bike's still around.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/ft3.jpg)
Venr Grayson's BSA 650 tracker. He's still got it but the recent sad loss of his wife Averil and work on his aeroplane project have left it parked in the shed with his Cheney Triumph. Let's hope we can eventually tempt Vern back for a wee skid.
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bullmad24.....that is way too cool for skool... 8) 8)
Sadly our shed lacks a flattracker...but if there's a free one around :P
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/DSCN0181.jpg)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/DSCN0150.jpg)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/DSCN0151-1.jpg)
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That yellow 2 stroke Yamaha is an awesome looking thing.. So is th XR although both are at very different ends of the spectrum
Brett
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Look's like this U.S. Flattrack thang is takin off.
I might even be tempted, one day.
If this starts a US invasion, I'm blaming Jim.
Since he got back from there earlier this year he's started wearing Snake Skin boots, a 10 Gallon Stetson and a huge belt buckle, reminds me a bit of Hoss Cartwright. ;) :D
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steve
you crack me up
i will have two so you will be tempted one day little joe
night john boy
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Be great to see it get going,no front brakes and away you go.Slides is right, not really our heritage but much more suited to older blokes. We have a couple in Griffith (not true flat trackers but they will pass) and love to ride at Nepean.Lets get some practice and take on the US.
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I'll take that as a complement, little Joe was the hunk of the show, I think.
Anyway, get back to work.
I'd be in that Pete, have to run it past the minister for War & Finance first.
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Yeah, American style flat trackers aren't really a part of our dirt track DNA but what really is the guts or our sport? We might consider sliders as being the heritage of Aussie dirt track/short circuit but even they were borrowed from British grass track. The beauty of our take on dirt track is that we've taken a number of different influences from other places, threw them in the pot and out poured Aussie dirt track.
I can recall American import dirt trackers being a part (albeit minor) of Oz dirt track back in the early seventies. I clearly recall a Trackmaster Triumph lapping Nepean around 1972 and can also remember a small number of Champion and C&J framed XL Hondas at various times throughout the seventies. My old Champion framed Yamaha SC500, now owned by Edgar Phipps was imported as a kit when the SC500 was new in '73/74 and I can recall seeing a couple more with MX250 engines being used. I remember former GP/superbike racer Peter Goddard racing an unbelievably trick XR500/C&J in the early 80's and there were many more scattered all over the East Coast that I have either forgotten or never saw .
With Pete 52's recent success in the USA and the small but growing band of USA import and locally built bikes coming in line, the short track races on Nepeans speedway circuit, soon to be revamped long track and the grand old short circuit look to inject a new lot of fun into the stagnant local scene.
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This is the same frame and shell covers as yours
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/munchboxlive/XXRRcorner.jpg)
IF i remember todd's email ill fire him over a Please xplain.
not that it matters
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I have alway had a bit of a soft spot for the US style of dirt track racing, expecially the mile and TT races. Back in 2001 while in the US doing some training with the US Navy (thanks to you lot for paying your taxes), I was fortunate enough to be able to go down to Springfeild IL for the mile and TT races and also to Peoria for the TT races there.
The mile racing at Springfeild was something that just has to be experienced, photos, video and written words just can't do justice to the atmosphere. I was extra luck to spend a bit of time talking to the owner of this bike;
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s120/coljay/USA-007.jpg)
Yes, the man himself, Jay Springstein. He has to be one of the friendliset racers that I have ever meet. The autographed race plate and tee shirt he gave me take pride of place in my collection of memorabilia.
For all that the mile at Sringfield was, the TT at Peoria was even better. The track being set in a valley that provides a natural ampitheatre made it so much better than the TT race at Springfield which were held at the County Fairground. The crowd were in full picnic / party mode with more BBQ's and eskies than I have ever seen outside of Aust. The racing was superb with Chris Carr living up to his "Prince of Peoria" title.
I also managed to see this gem at a swapmeeting that I stopped of at on the way to Peoria;
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s120/coljay/USA-140-1.jpg)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s120/coljay/USA-138.jpg)
I geve serious though to buying it, but the cost of shipping back to Aust, was a factor along with the fact that the Aust $ was only buying $0.55 at that time. It is definitly one to add to the "Why did I let it get away list".
CJ
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Wheels are trick PM and virtually unobtainable....very tasty, this shop I visit in Japan has few of Springers Bartels bikes and he rode for them at Daytona one year
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s120/coljay/USA-007.jpg)
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IF i remember todd's email ill fire him over a Please xplain.
Todd who.....you've lost me but you're right, it does look like it's a Shell but who gives a rats... it's a good thing even if it had been made in China by old mate the Metisse bloke ;D.
Those wheels on Springers Harley are indeed P&M's, they're rare and expensive and seriously light. A cheaper way of getting the look is to find a set of similar looking P&M Buell wheels, in fact there's a set for sale on http://vft.org/vftforsale2.html (http://vft.org/vftforsale2.html) for $450.
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i had the pleasure to talk to and see jay race at bankstown trotting track one january
it was great
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I met Springer in c '94 at one of Ivan's Longtrack meetings in Canberra, an absolute gentleman, he was cutting his rear tyre when we walked up, he dropped everything and spoke with us for some time.
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab106/JAP454/Springer.jpg)
Fella on the XR is Dave Francis first Pres of the FSCMCC.
Foss
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I also met Jay at Bankstown and found him very friendly and genuinely interested having a chat.
cheers pancho
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Hey Foss, if you admire Jay so much, why did you thumb tack that photo to your dart board ;D ;)
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Needs some noise for friday night :P :P ..well it could have Yankie bits on it ;) ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKQcwS0tIWY&feature=related
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Whoever that was riding, he knew what he was doing.
Track looked awesome, makes a huge difference.
Book me in for next easter.
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I'm surprised the Bultaco Astros weren't more popular in short circuit/dirt track thru the '70's . Great looking bikes and super quick! Chris Kelly raced a 250 and a 360 with great success. The one in reply #21 is a ripper. Wish it was in my shed :) Mark
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I can remember a meeting at Bendigo where Ray Owen had a big twin 750 yamaha flat tracker bright green i think god that was so cool and Gary Flood was on slider witha a Bulti engine 250 i think that was a good nights raceing.
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At the very first Vintage DT Nats at Mildura in the mid 90's I recall a number of Redline and Trackmaster replica XS650s and Triumphs racing. Apparently a local Mildura bloke had jigged up to produce locally made copies.They looked pretty good too.....Anyone know anything about those bikes or the frame builder?
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That Yamaha in the "Champion frame" is a shell with Shell/Starracer glass on it.The Frames were made by Doug Schwema for Shell Thuett. The glass was made to fit those frames.I think a guy from St.Louis ,Mo made the glass. TCL