OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Suzuki => Topic started by: BAHNZY on March 04, 2008, 07:07:30 pm
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Now that i have got your attention here is the dilemma.
My daughter has been pestering me for ages about getting her a bike. In fact she has been giving me hell over the RM125C as she thinks that i should give it to her to ride. I told her that if she buys the bike and the safety gear, then we will talk. Well she has bought all the gear, and i mean all the gear. Now i had to find her a bike that suits a 5'10 17 year old beginner. The thought of a 125 or 250 MX'r was just to much for her so we had the idea of converting a 82 PE175 Full Floater into a MX machine. The mellow power and extra torque over the 125 should suit her really well. We've got the bike, mounted a RM125N tank to it (which looks shit hot) and now were in the process of having the seat modified to work with the tank. Now we need to look to plastics and hence the reason for the posting. Does anyone have any experience fitting RM465 plastics to the 82 PE175? Its a given that the loop will have to be removed from the frame, but anything else?
Bahnsy
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Sorry i cant help with the plastics fit :( but its great that your daughter is getting into the sport.
Good luck with your project be great to see some pics when your finished :)
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This is the starting point. She's a bit rough but 99% there. (headlight missing) $500 bucks worth i guess.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2008-1/1293707/Before_1.JPG)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2008-1/1293707/Before_2.JPG)
- Bore is .50 oversize.
- Rear suspension has got bugger all play. Rods from the swingarm have small amount of movement.
- Rear shock is good, just needs a service.
What i need to know. (At the moment)
1. Will the RM465 plastics fit?
2. Does the PE expansion chamber have baffles in it?
3. Are the chassis spec's the same as an RM for equivalent years?
Bahnsy
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bahnsy yep looks like a piece of egg( PE) alright, i have fitted second hand rm side plastics
to a pe before they do fit with a bit of trimming pretty sure holes line up from memory
but memory not as good as it used to be ;D
also had another look for backing plate dipped out :'(
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Trim the muffler at the cone ( end that points down at weld ) . The baffle is spot welded in place , you should be able to see them .....3 mm drill bit will be suffice to remove spot welds - then pull the baffle out
I remove 65 mm off the muffler ...drill extra holes in the baffle - reassemble - weld on end cap
Doesn't make that much more noise .....but seems to have more top end ;)
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Whats wrong with the 175 side covers ??? they fit pefect
front guard should fit but im sure its the same part number as on RM anyway
and a rear 465/250 guard should fit, maybe some trimming required?
the PE 175 floater is based arround the 125 i beileve. the 250 and 400's T/X use the same frame geometry as the RM's so i would assume the 175 to be same as a 125 full floater.
yes your 175 has baffels in the chamber. big gains are obtained if you remove these or get an aftermarket pipe.
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LWC3077 - Whats wrong with the 175 side covers they fit perfect
Bahnsy - I'm just taking a guess that the Genuine (if they are available) will be worth a mortgage
I can buy a complete RM 465 kit from Vintage Suzuki for a reasonable cost.
LWC3077 - front guard should fit but I'm sure its the same part number as on RM anyway
Bahnsy - I kinda guessed that was a given
LWC3077 - And a rear 465/250 guard should fit, maybe some trimming required?
Bahnsy - This is the one that i am concerned about.
LWC3077 - The PE 175 floater is based around the 125 i believe. the 250 and 400's T/X use the same frame geometry as the RM's so i would assume the 175 to be same as a 125 full floater.
Bahnsy - That's what i thought, aside from the quick change rear wheel/brake assembly.
LWC3077 - Yes your 175 has baffles in the chamber. big gains are obtained if you remove these or get an aftermarket pipe.
Bahnsy - I'm wanting to do it on the cheap so I'll split the chamber based on the advice above.
Guys, keep the info flowing. It's a real help. Honestly :)
Bahnsy
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A bit more help needed.
Stripped the bike. Here's the list needed, so far :) Before i start running around i thought I'd throw it out to those that have done it before and see if there are any short cuts. (e-bay aside)
MUST HAVE
1. Bearings for the link rods between the swing arm and the upper pivot.
2. Swing arm bearings
3. Chain runner/buffer around the swing arm.
4. Rod kit (is genuine the best way to go?)
5. Air cleaner elements x 2
WISH LIST
1. Rear sprocket / brake carrier. Inner bearing failed at some stage and flogged the housing out.
2. RM Single leading trailing front backing plate. Get rid of the speedo drive.
And I'm sure there will be plenty more to come :)
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Reasonably cheap new parts from these guys....
http://www.alpha-sports.com/suzuki_parts.htm
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an aftermarket rod kit can be fine especially if its a japanese brand or pro-X. they are often made at the same factorys as the OEM rods. i think BB importers in WA would have one. i have just got a flyer from them last week and ive got to send a fax off to get their 08 catalogue then i can tell you for sure what they have for 175
here you go rod fits
Part # = 12161-41500
Part Description = ROD,CONNECTING
Model Count = 24
DS185C 1978 185 DS185 DUAL PURPOSE
DS185N 1979 185 DS185 DUAL PURPOSE
DS185T 1980 185 DS185 DUAL PURPOSE
PE175C 1978 172 PE175 DUAL PURPOSE
PE175D 1983 172 PE175 DUAL PURPOSE
PE175E 1984 172 PE175 DUAL PURPOSE
PE175N 1979 172 PE175 DUAL PURPOSE
PE175T 1980 172 PE175 DUAL PURPOSE
PE175X 1981 172 PE175 DUAL PURPOSE
PE175Z 1982 172 PE175 DUAL PURPOSE
RS175T 1996 175 RS175 DUAL SPORT
RS175X 1981 175 RS175 DUAL SPORT
RS175Z 1982 175 RS175 DUAL SPORT
TS185A 1976 183 TS185 SIERRA DUAL SPORT
TS185B 1977 183 TS185 SIERRA DUAL SPORT
TS185C 1978 183 TS185 SIERRA DUAL SPORT
TS185J 1972 183 TS185 SIERRA DUAL SPORT
TS185K 1973 183 TS185 SIERRA DUAL SPORT
TS185L 1974 183 TS185 SIERRA DUAL SPORT
TS185M 1975 183 TS185 SIERRA DUAL SPORT
TS185N 1979 183 TS185 SIERRA DUAL SPORT
TS185R 1971 183 TS185 SIERRA DUAL SPORT
TS185T 1980 183 TS185 SIERRA DUAL SPORT
TS185X 1981 183 TS185 SIERRA DUAL SPORT
so it uses same rods as TS 185. you can get this rod in pro-X, Long and several other brands. ive still got the box from my Pro-X rod so i will get the part number for you
pro-X number 03-3018
pro-x is made in japan and equal to or better than OEM.
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GOOD-PRICE-SUZUKI-PE175-DS185-TS185-CONNECTING-ROD-KIT_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35595QQihZ018QQitemZ280200251357QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
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TRY OEMCYCLE IN THE STATES.HEAPS CHEAPER THAN LOCAL AND ALPHA SPORTS.
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Guys,
Am i looking at the right websites to understand what the correct year model the bike is given the numbers below? All the sites that i visit seem to have a 5 digit (ie PE175) then the serial number for bikes up to & including 1980. After that they use a 17 digit VIN and obviously i haven't got that.
Ahhhh...... Bikes built after 1980, what a pain in the arse :)
Any clues.
Frame: PE175 - 215511
Engine: PE175 - 222315
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Bahnsy check both rims see if they have the same date as each other and that should tell you year of production.jimson
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Jimson,
9/82 Front, 8/82 Rear
The bike has (whats left) a blue seat cover and a yellow set of forks. This tells me that it should be a 1983 model, however, the 83 should have an adjustable remote reservoir rear shock, this bike does not have that nor the remnants of where one may have been mounted.
I'm going to go with 1983 give the given the lateness of the rim dates.
Bahnsy
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judging by the side cover sticker i say 83 but who knows if someone just stuck that cover on it, plus yellow forks and blue seat cover say 83 'D' model.
i would have VIN numbers for you bike but i would have to find them but there is something weird about them and dont match Australian records, so i dont 100% percent trust them for ID'ing Australian models
just ring you dealer, qoute the frame number and they will tell you exactly what yr it is and you can be 100% sure.
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frame number says '83.
engine seems wrong (later than 83) which is interesting.
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then it has a 84 'E' motor in a 83 chassis
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O/K she's now stripped, and here's the good the bad and the ugly.
1. The swing arm pivot bolt is seized tight as, will need to get to work to get the 50 ton press on to it.
2. The boss where the swing arm pivot bearing locates is split. Easy weld to rectify.
3. Fork inners look good, slight rust on them between the triple clamps. Wont present any problems.
4. The expansion chamber has been cut and gutted already. One less job :)
5. Most of the pivot bearings in the full floater are stuffed. Kinda expected this.
6. Rims and hubs are good, just need a tidy up. Will need some extra spokes as there are a few broken.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2008-1/1293707/Before_3.JPG)
Have started putting the bits together. Ordered the ProX rod kit and will be picking up a RM465 this arvo to have a look at the fitment of RM plastics.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2008-1/1293707/Before_4.JPG)
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O/K, next paragraph in the chapter.
Took the frame to work, machined up a set of tools to press the bolt out and chucked her in the press. 6 tons later and a bent piece if 12mm rod the bolt came loose. Even had the "new owner" man (or show that be woman) the press. ;)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2008-1/1293707/SwingArmBolt.JPG)
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ive got some nos spokes for you. see my for sale ad on forum. im open to negotiations.
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Stripped the RM465 down and found that the biggest change is that the rear guard is fixed to the seat on the RM whereas the PE rear guard is seperate to the seat and bolted to the frame. The good thing is that the captive nuts are in the PE seat where the guard bolts up so all we have to do is make some small brackets to support the outer mounting points on the guard.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2008-1/1293707/Before_8.JPG)
The side covers bolt up without to many drama's. The only issue is the gap at the tank/seat/side cover junction. Dont see this as a major issue as well make a small plastic plate to cover the area.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2008-1/1293707/Before_5.JPG)
The rear mount for the side cover is way off but given we are going to lop the back loop off the frame and do a make good repair, welding a set of tabs to the frame to accept the side covers is a no brainer.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2008-1/1293707/Before_9.JPG)
The actual rear part of the RM and PE frames are almost identical so the seat fits strait on.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2008-1/1293707/Before_6.JPG)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2008-1/1293707/Before_7.JPG)
So we have placed an order to Vintage Suzuki for some guards and well get the front race plate from Suzuki as they are still avaliable. By the way the side covers for the PE are still avaliable but at $112.00 a peice Vs US$80 for a set from Vintage Suzuki, i'll go with the aftermarket.
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Project is looking good Bahn-Stormer.
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After a day with the mig , the angle grinder and a whole lot of fabricating, we have now lopped the loop off the subframe, fitted new (rear) sidecover mounts for the RM plastics and a muffler mount to the subframe and removed the brackets for the battery etc, Also made some new mounts for the N model tank and we are starting to look good. Waiting on the rear shock from Powerhouse and a few other bits and we should have a roller in a couple of weeks.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2008-1/1293707/Before_10.JPG)
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Help Please!!!!!
The rear suspension is all but completed, with the exception of the spherical bearings in the rocker pivot.
The local Suzuki dealer has advised that 09269-09001 is going to cost $129.20 + KRUD. AT $280 odd dollars i ain't going to pay that. Been to 4 bearing suppliers and spherical bearings with a 8mm ID are $25 but the problem is that the OD is smaller than the hole i have in the rocker. I had the thought of boring the hole out to take the trusty old 608RS (Skateboard wheel bearing) with 2 on either side had even crossed my mind. I know that they aren't designed to take that load in that motion but the thought of replacing 4 x $5 bearing once every couple of years is better than $280. The only problem that i see is that i don't think there is enough material in the rocker to do it safely.
Spherical Bearing - 8mm ID - 17.5mm OD - 11mm wide
Ball Bearing (608RS) - 8mm ID - 22mm OD - 7mm wide
Thoughts please.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2008-1/1293707/Before_12.JPG)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2008-1/1293707/Before_11.JPG)
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look up ALL Balls Bearings ( Gooogle search ) .....They seem to cater for that sort of Stuff :)
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what size do you need? 8 mm ID x 25/26 or 20? i think you will have luck with shock heim bearings. i reckon one from a ohlins shock will fit. tell me the size and i will compare to what i have got and whats available
whoops i missed your dimensions above. there may still be a shock bearing available though
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Bahnsy, i assume you have checked the "IKO" bearing catalog, they are a jap manufacturer of those sperical bearings.
if you went to a good bearing supplier they would know this, some suppliers could not be bothered when you say its for a bike as its too much trouble for them and its only a small order.
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Bahnsy I dealt with a bearing supplier at Marylands is Sydney who sells/imports IKO bearings, IKO make the bearings for Suzuki only and are not a stock item, so it cost me around $90 for each spherical bearing for the shock and linkage and $50 each for the rocker bearings to suit a 83 RM250D from Suzuki :'(
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Betric,
Do you have any contact details for the dealer in Marylands?
Bahnsy
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THE BEARING DEALER AT MARYLANDS COULD NOT HELP ME SO I HAD TO PAY THE $$$ FOR THE BEARINGS FROM SUZUKI
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Hey Bahnsy, I brought some a few months back in Bayswater...$50 each. I to hunted everywhere,no-one helpful until this shop. Will find invoice...get back to ya.
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Are they 22 mm OD ? If yes we have them.
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Bahnsy, did Anthony pass on the details. 0412394102 if need more info.
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Well its been a slow process getting the bits and peices together, but we are back on track again.
Got the seat back from TopLine it looks as trick as a dog with 2 dicks. Mario does a ripper job and the artwork was couretesy of the bikes owner and stenciled on by Mario. Thanks to Kiwi we now have some new bearings for the suspension linkage and with a little more help from LWC we will have a new set of spokes as well. This weekend we plan to have the frame painted, the front suspension in and start on the engine.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2008-1/1293707/RM175Seat.JPG)
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The next step in the installment.
The front spokes have turned up from LWC3077 which meant that i had to pull my finger out to get the hubs finsished and the rear spokes shortened and re-rolled - (Using Talon Blanks) Dipped the rims in Caustic Soda to get rid of clear anodising in preperation for a polish of the rims. Should have this done by the weekend.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2008-1/1293707/rim.JPG)
LWC3077 also put me onto a ProX rod kit from a TS185 that fitted a treat. The engine now has a fresh set of bearings, seals gaskets, RM ratios and a new rod, piston, etc etc.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2008-1/1293707/engine_9.JPG)
So we are looking good to get the bike to a roller within a fortnight, getting itchy feet to see what it will turn out like.
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so does Caustic soda strip annodizing off properly? if so what brand did you use? if it does then that will save me some money sending mine away to be stipped.
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Leith,
Common garden variety caustic soda works well for me. I use a kitty litter tray (as per the picture) that i picked up for a couple of bucks at the plastics joint. I buy a container of caustic soda crystals from the hardware and add enough water to the container that will cover a rim over a 8-10 inch section then add 1/2 a container of the crystals. I then dunk the rim in the solution. How long is determined by the make of the rim and how old it is. Old rear rims don't take as long, generally as they have been sand blasted from track work over the years. I usually leave the rims in the solution till they go jet black. I them pull the rim out and clean the black goo off with some steel wool and soapy water. This is twofold, one you need to stop the reaction on the alloy whilst you dip another section of the rim (that’s why you use the soapy water) and secondly using steel wool will tell you that you that you have stripped the anodizing off as you will scuff the alloy up strait away. If you can’t then you need to dip it longer. You then complete the process again on the next section of the rim. When it is all finished I drag out a fine file, get rid of all the rock, tyre lever and tyre machine gouges that have made their way onto the rim over time then get into the rims with 600 wet and dry before i polish them on the bench grinder. Polishing them is another thing altogether that I won't bore you all with for now.
Bahnsy
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thanks i reckon i can give this ago. it will save striping costs and $14 of freight back and forth to adelaide if i can do it myself. i also picked up some fox air shox today and i wouldnt mind re-doing the annodizing on those. yeah there was no need to tell me how to do the polishing as i know all that part, but maybe some other people would be interested in that.
would caustic acid be what the annodizers use when they strip stuff?
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So the bike is finaly finished, but not started. It was decided that we would take the bike to the VCM/Viper practice day at Broadford and give it a start there for some significance to mark the moment. So after getting a 17 year old female out of the deep slumber on a Sunday morning, a difficult task at the best of times (if you have a child at this age you will understand) and we head to Broadford with the bike on board along with a few of it's older siblings, namely the 400C. We get to Broadford, pit beside the Bakers and unload the bikes. Mixed some fuel, showed her the ritual to starting a 2 stroke from cold and got her to wear a boot on the right foot, "just in case"
Three kicks later the bike lets out a massive backfire and in typical Suzuki fashion lets you know that it will start on the fourth kick. So it is with utter dissapointment that the bike gets its fourth kick with no compression at all. After some quick diagnosis we find that the headgasket is leaking big time. I tension down the head bolts and re-check and the same result. In frustration we throw the bike on the trailer and decide to have a look at it when we get home.
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Get the bike home, and get strait to pulling the head off and really could'nt see much other then the head studs were not flush with the top of the barrell and there was no crush on the copper gasket. I decide to pull the head studs down and find that they won't tighten in the barrel. So i pull them out alltogether and find they are completely stripped and (and get this) the studs have been superglued in.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2008-1/1293707/DSC05818.JPG)
Challenged with why the head bolts tensiond but the gasket still leaked, i delved further and realised the step on the head stud had come upagainst the underside of the head and the nut would then tightened down on the opposing side and give the impression that the nuts had been tensioned and this given me some understanding how i missed it when assembling the engine, but why were they all stripped?
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2008-1/1293707/DSC05821.JPG)
I then realised that when i bought the bike the previous owner he had told me that a bike shop had bored the engine, fitted a new piston and it never ran properly since. As you have got to remove the studs from the barrel the penny finally dropped.
So i rip the barrell of the bike and fit 6 new helicoils to right the wrongs of the bike shop and we are back to square one.
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So the bike is now ready to give it a start. Thought i'd capture it on a "YouTube" moment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXzR8T0xqnM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXzR8T0xqnM)
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And some pics of the completed bike with it's proud owner.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2008-1/1293707/RM175_1.JPG)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2008-1/1293707/RM175_2.JPG)
Thanks to;
Anthony Coxon (Bumper McGunn) @ PowerHouse Motorcycles for finding the bike in the 1st place.
Kiwi64 for a line on parts.
Chris Cormack for the donation of some near impossible to get parts.
Mario from Top Line upholstery for the seat.
Vintage Suzuki for the new plastics.
Leith for the Spoke Kit
Gazza Hacking for the sweet deal on the fuel tank
The crew at Byrners Suzuki for the genuine bits.
Top Gear Mototcycles for the consumables
Forum members for thir tips.
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looks good Bahnstormer !
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That was a lot of work. Great outcome, looks good well done! 8)
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looks great i like the seat how did yo u find the vintage suzuki plastics i got some for my 250 and they were a great fit and had a great finish , ive just started collecting parts for an rm 125 d was it hard finding the bushes and seals for the rear bell crank and arms
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very nice 8)
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crs-and-rms,
The plastics were purchased as if they were being fitted to an RM465 as this was the closest model possible to the PE175. I had to;
1. Add washers to the rear bolts to angle the front mudguard away from the exhaust as there was an interference.
2. Make a brace to hold the front plate, a $45 genuine Suzuki part, as the distance between the tripple clamps on the RM & PE are different. Again this was a simple task.
3. Make mounts for the side covers as they did not fit, obviously because they were for an RM. Given that the frame profile was almost the same as the PE, they ended up fitting like they were meant to be there. I also had to make a mount on the rear muffler to hold the left hand rear mount of the sidecover.
4. Fabricate a rear guard mounts (replicated from an RM) and that also fitted up like it was meant to be there.
In the end the fit and finish were as good as what the factory would have supplied, except that you have to drill the locating holes.
In the case of the rear suspension, most of the parts are avaliable ex Suzuki, only problem is that you have to mortgage your house to get them. What i did was use an All-Balls kit (P/No-28-1137) for the swing arm bearings. I bought the spherical bearings for the rocker from a bearing supplier in Dandenong, mind you they were $45 each, and the rest of the bearings in the bike were serviceable, however i did replace all the "O" ring seals in the link rods.
The seat was done by Mario from TopLine Upholstery and included a new foam (to my spec) and a new cover with the stencil. Mario does hundereds (literally) of bike seats and knows his stuff backwards.
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Nice little bike Bahnsy. It'd make a fun vinduro mount.
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Bahnster, can you post up Mario's contact details for seats please.
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Real nice work. A credit to you mate.
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Good effort you have built a great little bike thanks for sharing :)
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thanks for the info bahnsy i try the all balls swingarm kit i have a long list of things to get lol