OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: bishboy on September 15, 2011, 04:15:23 pm
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Intrigued by the 84 KX250 that sold a couple of weeks ago on ebay for $5k and inspired by Slakewell’s best pre 74 thread (couldn’t contribute to that one as I know nothing about anything made before 1980, i hadn’t even started school in 74 :D), I was wondering what everyone thought were the most popular pre 85 evo bikes, for whatever reason, because they’re rare, fast or just because people love ‘em ;D
I’m not trying to make a definitive list, just some of the models I’ve noticed that get snapped up quickly or go for good money on ebay.
Pre 85
- 83/84 open class bikes, particularly the KX, RM & CR 500/480’s
- 84 KX250 (apparently)
Evo
- YZ465
- 79 KX250
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(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/icons/wwp.gif)
No Pixies - no post >:(
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In Evo 500s, the Maicos are widely considered The Bike, and command a premium.
The YZ465s are the next best, and are definitely the best of the jap bike of the category.
They both go for good money because they're good race bikes.
RM500s are an oddity. They are super desirable now, even though they weren't considered that great in the day.
In contrast, the YZ490s were more popular when new, but are treated like lepers now...
Big bores are always sought after, esp those with disc fronts.
The last of the Evo Kawasakis seem to be very popular and consequently expensive, but it seems to be 50% race performance, 50% looks...
The 84 KX was a very clean, original bike. I think that lots of people would have bought them new but steered away because of the earlier frame breakages and parts supply. History has shown that the 84s were actually quite good, so the pool of potential buyers in 2011 is large relative to the number they sold.
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The Maico 490 is the best evo open bike these things were just so good , they did nothing wrong except brake down allot.
IMO the KTM 420 and 390 are close motor wise but they don't steer as nice as the Maico but handle very nicely.
(http://pimpmy.ktm.com/fileadmin/pimpupyourbike/imageuploads/gallery_ready/ktm_420_-_x-tra_017_1.jpg)
The KTM 250 is dam good evo 250 being an 81 model sneaks in a few extra years over the jap bikes thou tall they can be made to run very quickly.
Pre 85 the Honda's for 84 are good and can be great with the endless hot up parts you can buy for them a WP rear shock and pro circuit pipe and cylinder and these things rip.
I like the 84 KTM but I have not ridden one that goes as well as a good Honda.
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they did nothing wrong except brake down allot.
I take it from personal experience?
Good to see someone (one) is giving KTM's a wrap.
490 Maico's are not only reliable but best in the class.
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Get yourself a good trail bike forget all that other rubbish,it'll last for years,the bikes are cheap ( no one wants one),parts are a dim a dozen,and if your really nuts hell get one of those slow four stroke models,think how fit you'll get throwing that around.
See win ,win. ;)
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I could probably muster my pre 85 / 125 ways if I had one of these.
(http://www.vintagemx.us/images/photos/15493421-281274-large.jpg)
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I have a few Honda's and for looks I just can't go past the 79 CR250, I have two off them, one I ride (well every now and then) and one in the showroom of my business, for riding I have 3 off the 84 CR 250's and they are just so easy a bike to ride.
This era of late 70's early 80's produced some real great looking bikes and does not matter which brand you like there is a bike for everyones taste.
I'm not a big KTM man (well I am not big at all I am short) but that is one dam fine looking bike!
Shane
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Yum yum...
(http://pimpmy.ktm.com/fileadmin/pimpupyourbike/imageuploads/gallery_ready/ktm_420_-_x-tra_017_1.jpg)
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Gotta love those white KTM's, man do they look good.
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This is my favourite Evo ride as it is my first MX bike.
With the totally unique one year only design plastics the 79 RM400N is worth every cent on the rebuild. :)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/Airfireman/PA150404.jpg)
Tim
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The Maico 490 is the best evo open bike these things were just so good , they did nothing wrong except brake down allot.
Ugh! The old Maico Breako chestnut ::). Maicos' break about as often as any other bike. It's all to do with how meticulous the owner is with his maintenance schedule. If you look after any bike, it'll look after you, if you neglect it, it'll inevitably let you down........Kinda like a woman ;).
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Gee Firko I've only ridden yours ;)
Boom Tish
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Now Slaky be nice ::)
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Actually an interesting question...with whats out there and at what level these bikes are used 8).
Bit of a quick add up from Nationals stat's
----- pre85-----
Yamaha's where like fly's at Crystal Brook in the over 250cc/263 class. ;D
Quick count
Yamaha 22.
Honda 9
Husqvarna's 8
Suzuki 4
Maico 4
Bultaco 1
KTM 2
CZ 1
-----Evo 250cc------
Yamaha equal 10 with Honda
Suzuki & Maico 2
Kawa,KTM,CZ and Bultaco all with one 1
------Evo/pre85 125-----
Suzuki 5
Honda 6
Yamaha 3
Kawa & KTM 1
Bit of a quick add up from Nationals stat's
No huskys?
Ed
perhaps too quick-sorry.
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Bit of a quick add up from Nationals stat's
No huskys?
Ed
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Couple of questions regarding performance of some pre 85 open class bikes:
CR480 vs CR500 - are they similar enough not to make a difference, except for the front disc
KX420 - is it hopelessly outclassed by all the other bikes in the class, just wondering as a good one is about half the price of a KX500!!
The KTM420 above is a great looking bike, does it have a smaller tank than standard on it as it just looks a "thinner" than others I have seen? How difficult are parts to find for these models as it would be a great alternative to a YZ or RM 8)
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Couple of questions regarding performance of some pre 85 open class bikes:
The KTM420 above is a great looking bike, does it have a smaller tank than standard on it as it just looks a "thinner" than others I have seen? How difficult are parts to find for these models as it would be a great alternative to a YZ or RM 8)
The Kato in the pic has the small 9 liter tank which are not common and mostly need sourcing from the USA, Most bikes that came to Aus had the 11.5 liter tank. The rest of the bikes and parts are out there, not that hard to find.
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Do I need to say anything................... :P :P :P
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k629/KTM_White_Pointer/81KTM495.jpg)
Oh I did forget to say these held the land speed record for dirt bikes till 2008..........
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Whilst the great white 495 is in fact really fast as a pure race bike cutting lap times it's not a weapon of choice. A good 420 or even 390 would be a better MX race bike.
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Whilst the great white 495 is in fact really fast as a pure race bike cutting lap times it's not a weapon of choice. A good 420 or even 390 would be a better MX race bike.
You could probably say the same thing about Maicos too. We all know how awesome the 490 is but to be brutally honest, most of us average riders would probably be much more comfortable (and therefore faster for longer) on a 400 or 440. Riding these big momma's to their full potential takes a lot more skill and fitness than most vintage racers posess.
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Up until a couple of years ago I raced an RM250Z with an 85 disc brake front end. It would have to be the fastest best handling pre-85 bike I have ridden. It would turn on dime and if you were fit enough to hang onto it then you could cut seriously fast lap times. Now I race an 84 KX250 which is good, but not as good as that RM.
I have had Maico 490's but I really like riding the 81/82 Husky 430. Basically an over powered 250, they are such a sweet ride.
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Yeh I won a lot of races back in the day on an RM250Z, got me out of C grade; killer engine, awesome suspension.
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Good to see someone (one) is giving KTM's a wrap.
490 Maico's are not only reliable but best in the class.
This is also reflected in the 2011 Nationals Results in Evo and pre85 with the Maico results,placing in the top 5 bikes and taking a few podiums home with a couple of fast riders aboard.
I've also just finished reading an article in ADB October 2002 "How far have we come in 20years" with the 81 Maico Mega 2 and a 2003 KTM 525SX pit against each other, with a young Geoff Ballard,Roy Gay and a younger Jay Marmont.. ;D A great read !!
The final paragraph states:If the Maico was fitted with the KTM forks and brakes plus a fresh set of Ohlins or WP shocks,it might just stick it to a lot of hot Open class contenders..Now wouldnt that be a buzz.
cheers A
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The final paragraph states:If the Maico was fitted with the KTM forks and brakes plus a fresh set of Ohlins or WP shocks,it might just stick it to a lot of hot Open class contenders..
Yeah might not too..... sorry to say it but the current generation of open class 4 strokes have an ability to get their power to the ground in a far more accessable way than the 2 strokes did.... so I am not buying it.
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I wrote that piece and even though Roy Gays Maico was rooted it was pretty close in the drag race...even to the point that the Maico won a couple of drags. As far as everything else, there's really no comparison. Funnily enough the younger riders loved the instant hit the Maico gave but were freaked out by the brakes.
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The final paragraph states:If the Maico was fitted with the KTM forks and brakes plus a fresh set of Ohlins or WP shocks,it might just stick it to a lot of hot Open class contenders..
Yeah might not too..... sorry to say it but the current generation of open class 4 strokes have an ability to get their power to the ground in a far more accessable way than the 2 strokes did.... so I am not buying it.
ahh come on FX !! we wasn't debaiting the 2 & 4 stroke ;) ;D Just how good the Maico has been for so long :P
cheers A
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Roy Gays bike in that mag was my old bike. Believe it or not it was a 400GS when I sold it to him. Check the sub frame in the pics. It was quick as a 400 but had the ugliest brakes I have ever used.
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From memory Roy had two bikes there for that test. Not too sure which was which in respect of pedigree. Maybe Firko can elaborate?
Cheers
Shaun
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Yes I have the mag. He had another on display with the #1 plate. Here is the other bike before I sold it to him. This was my first ever resto.
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss338/crynnthnight/Maico.jpg)
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Maico did a damn fine pre '85 open class bike as well. Especially with a Honda disc front end :)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o82/evo550/IMGP1354.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o82/evo550/IMGP1356.jpg)
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Funnily enough the younger riders loved the instant hit the Maico gave but were freaked out by the brakes.
I can't remember where I saw it but I saw Stefan Merriman's comments after riding a Maico 490 and it was the brakes that drew the greatest comment/criticism :o.
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These days due to a badly prepped bike. Just a better brand of brake shoe is a big benefit, let alone the billet backing plate that also helps. Would have been nice to have had a better bike for the comparison in hindsight. The same comparison should be made in the future to show how far we haven't come.