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Marketplace => Wanted => Topic started by: elsie 125 on February 29, 2008, 11:12:12 am

Title: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: elsie 125 on February 29, 2008, 11:12:12 am
Hi guys, I am after a YZ or MX 250 yamaha, to rebuild and ride, anything considered, thankyou
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: Freakshow on March 03, 2008, 08:44:42 pm
question what do you want to spend ?

i got a few here im thinking of culling out the collection, infact i have a 74 250mxA i had i the van all last year as a spare bike at race meets, and never used it once, so that one might be something for you, had new piston, fork seals etc etc was set up with a dirt track rear from memory, but like i said in 12 months didnt need it, got a cheap Dt 250 ( same thing just not as posh) be a cheap entry level pre 75 and maybe a TM250 or a MX 360 depending. 
PM me with what discipline you want it for use it for and what you want to spend ill ill give you a yeah or nah.
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: elsie 125 on March 03, 2008, 10:25:31 pm
thanks freaky, mx250a  sounds great, pm sent cheers
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: Freakshow on March 04, 2008, 03:28:23 pm
NO probs or would consider part swaps on motor -YZ 250A or 360A motor if you find one, i need it for a Champion frame i have set up ready to run, but it has a big whole in the middle, where it needs a power plant, im holding out in putting the Dt1 motor in it.........
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: BJJ on March 04, 2008, 07:36:14 pm
'74 250a - I have one here also that is not doing anything.  Needs a coil methinks.  New Circle-F, New forks, respoked Rear.  Take your PM enquires, or hold.  Before the above I paid $1,500 (high) in late '06 as a barn,  but it has been raced twice since then and pretty tight.  Fix the coil and I reckon UR race ready.
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: Freakshow on March 04, 2008, 10:53:01 pm
wanna sell the pipes and forks or do a swap out and some coin balance....messr billyjackiehjane ?
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: elsie 125 on March 06, 2008, 12:06:54 pm
hi bill jack jane, thanks for your reply, am interested in your bike, you have no contact details, please PM me, my computer is in for repairs, am currently checking mail at library, my contact phone number is 0419 905 410, message me your contact number and I can ring you,regards Pat elsie125
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: BJJ on March 06, 2008, 12:26:46 pm
Hi Freakshow.  Thanks for the offer,  but if it is going to go,  it needs to be the whole thing.  I would be happy to get back what I have spent.
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: Freakshow on March 06, 2008, 11:49:24 pm
post up a piccy ! or at least send us one imto my box or email  ;).
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: Freakshow on March 10, 2008, 10:13:25 pm
is it that blue one with the late model guards ?  is that a points or cdi bike ?
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: BJJ on March 14, 2008, 04:38:54 am
points
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: Freakshow on March 14, 2008, 08:08:36 pm
ok so thats a 73mx 250, but id still love the forks and the pipe on a deal :O)
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: BJJ on March 17, 2008, 06:56:10 pm
 :-\  Ouch.  OK,  excuse me for being ignorant here (still learning). 
How does one tell difference between '73 & '74 MX models?
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: Freakshow on March 17, 2008, 09:22:35 pm
well its still a mx250 just not the more popular 'A' model, they where yellow and chequer board for the 74 period marketing.  Basically the same with some slight changes to the motor, carby etc  but the most obvious improvement was it went electronic ( took the yz 74/75 hatachi CDI ) some folk prefer points but meh.   

well that also assume for some reason someone didnt for some unknown reason convert it back to points.   do the frame numbers and engine match ? could be a built up, cause that blue tanks a DT paint scheme aswell, so it could be a 90's race bitsa

MX250 Year: 1973 Start Engine#: 364-000101

MX250A Year: 1974 Start Engine#: 364-020101

check the motor stamp for a positive ID
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: BJJ on March 18, 2008, 09:21:09 am
Thanks freakshow.  Number is 364-009318,  so I guess it is trying to be a 73. 
The stamp is different sized casing for the last numbers,  so maybe I have a 74 posing as a 73,  or a bitsa (as you say),  or worse still,  someones stolen bike from the 80's and nineties.  >:(

At least I know about the points now. Cheers!!
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: mx250 on March 18, 2008, 09:46:46 am
Quote from: Freakshow on March 10, 2008, 10:13:25 pm
is it that blue one with the late model guards ?  is that a points or cdi bike ?
All MX250's came standard with internal rotor (lightweight) CDI's.

If its got points (magnito) it either is a DT or has a DT ignition.
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: mx250 on March 18, 2008, 10:05:05 am
Quote from: billjackjane on March 17, 2008, 06:56:10 pm
:-\  Ouch.  OK,  excuse me for being ignorant here (still learning). 
How does one tell difference between '73 & '74 MX models?

Graphics ONLY ;)
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/mx250a/1973-Yamaha-MX-250-Silver-1988-1.jpg)
(The black forks are non-original  :-\. The front gaurd looks wrong also. Should same shape as MX250A, below  ::))

(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/mx250a/007.jpg)
Although the silver grey is classier and as a consequence pulls a superior quality pit tootsie  ;D.
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/mx250a/SMF-PoisonLil87.jpg)
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: Freakshow on March 18, 2008, 02:32:14 pm
 check that MX250,  part manuals i have shows the 73 with a points set up.
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: mx250 on March 18, 2008, 06:12:01 pm
Quote from: Freakshow on March 18, 2008, 02:32:14 pm
check that MX250,  part manuals i have shows the 73 with a points set up.
Experience and the sales brochure tell me CDI  ;).
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: Freakshow on March 19, 2008, 01:23:06 am
the grey and red stipe ones i seen had points still, maybe i just see the shitters or the dtmx bastardised versions

any way still dont explain why his has points on a 364 cases ???
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: BETRIC on March 19, 2008, 07:19:24 am
FREAKY 73 MX250 HAS CDI AS STANDARD, I DON'T KNOW WHAT MANUAL YOU WERE LOOKING AT, I HAVE A FIRST EDITION JUL 1972 PRINTED MANUAL AND IT SAYS CDI, FIRST MODEL 73 MX250 HAD SAME SHAPE F/GUARD (FENDER) AS THE YZ250/360A, 74 MX250A CHANGED TO THE LATER SHAPE, THE PICTURE OF THE 73 MODEL LOOKS LIKE THE STANDARD FORKS BUT PAINTED BLACK.
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: Yamaboy on March 19, 2008, 07:55:42 am
Yamaha has had CDI since the DT2 MX in 1972. Where do you get your information from Freaky? I would have thought that the Pitmans parts guy you told us you were would know a little bit more than you are displaying here.  ???
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: mx250 on March 19, 2008, 09:08:51 am
Quote from: Freakshow on March 19, 2008, 01:23:06 am
the grey and red stipe ones
If grey and red stripe it would be a DT2MX rather than an MX. Notwithstanding, they still had the CDI (mainly to get rid of the heavy flywheel magneto and give the engine the 'zip' and responsiveness of a MX racer.)

Quote from: Freakshow on March 19, 2008, 01:23:06 am
any way still dont explain why his has points on a 364 cases ???
The maggy of the DT series swaps straight in and is a great, cheap and effective way of changing the engine characteristics for slippery conditionc requiring throttle control (e.g. mud). Today they offer bolt on weights to the same effect. 

It is quite feasible that someone in the past has done just that. The heavy flywheel and MX porting and chamber makes for a great play racer/trail bike (been there, done that ;D).

Whose 'his'?
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: firko on March 19, 2008, 10:39:55 am
Although the Yamaha MX series didn't set the motocross world on fire with their performance, I reckon that the company got it spot on the money with looks and attention to detail. Look at the silver bike above (not Sieges Poison 'Lil, the other one!) and you'd have to admit that they sure are a pretty piece of gear and when you compared them to Maico, Husky, Bultaco, CZ and the other Jap products of the time. The little details like a reed valve, well sorted CDI and the meticulous finish detail were top of the class. You can tell that Yamaha were so close to getting it right in '73 and by '75 the company had it got it really together. Still, on a bang for your buck, the old MX250 is a good, honest bike with tons of hot up potential and loads of character.
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: Freakshow on March 19, 2008, 01:50:51 pm
Quote from: Yamaboy on March 19, 2008, 07:55:42 am
Yamaha has had CDI since the DT2 MX in 1972. Where do you get your information from Freaky? I would have thought that the Pitmans parts guy you told us you were would know a little bit more than you are displaying here.  ???

 i bought in the late model second hand stock, never said i was a parts interpreter dude.  but i also sold off a shit load of manuals about 500 before we sold all that shit to max, and flipped through most of them ( and kept just as many and i though i saw points sets

For some reason i thought the ealy ones where points, sorry for confusing things.  just i made a point to stay away from points and that one for some reason sticks in my head, i did have a yellow what must have been a painted Dt250 and we could never get that forker to power up, so i have always kept a wide berth from what i thought was pre 73 yamaha enduro/ dirter

woops makes me think of all the grey jobbies i never followed up, ahh well more left for everyone else :O)
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: firko on March 19, 2008, 02:13:28 pm
DT 250s are CDI as well. Are you sure you weren't looking at a DT1 or something??
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: mx250 on March 19, 2008, 02:23:07 pm
Firko,

To give Yamaha full credit the MX was meant as a 'Play Racer'. "If you wanted a serious Yamaha MX'er buy a YZ" was Yamaha's policy. Thats why the MX was over weight and over engineered, came with oil injection, a 30mm carb and 'soft' power.

The MX was a Play Racer par excellence - first and foremost, cheap and reliable. The fact that it could easily be made go hard was the hallmark of Yamaha's two stroke knowledge - they didn't know how to make a bad two stroke.

I reckon if you put a Maico front end on, a lightweight rear brake/hub and some decent shocks, you won't pick the difference in proformance between the MX and the Europeans handling/chassis not withstanding.

If you used chromemolly steel for the chassis and paid attention to weight savings you would outperfrom the European comtempories. Hang on. Doesn't that describe a YZ  ;D.

If Yamaha made a mistake it was in the Marketing dept not the Engineering dept. Marketing correctly identified the 'customers requirments' but  didn't correctly identify the 'customers needs'. They were a bunch of wankers and they 'needed' to look like their heros even if they couldn't ride well enough to do justice to their hero's bike.

Yamaha realised their mistake and went on to do the opposite (as did all the Japanese) - sold bikes that looked the same and were called the same but were like chalk and cheese.   
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: Freakshow on March 19, 2008, 02:42:16 pm
Quote from: firko on March 19, 2008, 02:13:28 pm
DT 250s are CDI as well. Are you sure you weren't looking at a DT1 or something??

fork i must be going metal, but i have a stack of 450-xxx  cases and im sure they had points in the box. so thats thats at least 6 ign sets, and i know for sure that old yammie i had , did have thermos and definately had points cause i remeber trying to file them through the window.

Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: BETRIC on March 19, 2008, 03:30:53 pm
FIRKO DT250 STILL HAD POINTS, DT360 WERE THE ONE'S WITH THE CDI AS STANDARD.
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: firko on March 19, 2008, 10:37:10 pm
Oops sorry Freaky and thanks Betric. I have DT400 ignition on one of my RT1 engines so I figured the DT range all had CDI. Serves me right for figuring without checking.
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: Freakshow on March 20, 2008, 01:16:06 pm
if i could find enough second hand PVL for my bottom ends , i wouldnt even be trying to answer this one.

So any way back to the start of this thread, we can assume that the Bike in question although it has 364-xx cases must have been rebuilt with Dt250 parts and accesories at some time of the other into its current liverly.

id still swap ya stock parts and coin for the forks and pipe Billy .  :O)
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: BJJ on March 20, 2008, 07:19:38 pm
Hi Freakshow.  I appreciate the offer,  but it stays in 1 piece for now.
Do we know anyone in Aus that has installed a Novation swingarm?

(http://bokashi.com.au/images/Yamaha%204.jpg)

(http://bokashi.com.au/images/Yamaha%205.jpg)

as you can see,  this one has a circle-F also.
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: mx250 on March 20, 2008, 08:01:17 pm
Whats the swing arm Bill? Looks late model in profile - despite shock mounts.
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: firko on March 20, 2008, 08:20:54 pm
My interpritation of the pre '75  rules would make a Novation swingarm illegal as it's not a replica of anything available back in the day. If I was working on eligibility at a meeting and someone showed up with one of these swingarms I'd ask them for written and photographic proof that this swingarm design existed prior to 1975 which I'm pretty certain would not be forthcoming. It's a joke to think that such a modern looking item would be pre '75 legal.

When you are buying your trick bits from the USA please realise that their rulebook is different to ours in allowing stuff like the Novation swingarm. Another item I think is many of the billet triple clamps available today. If they are exact replicas of what was available in the pre '75 era like the billet replicas of the cast Pro Circuit triple clamps that were available for Huskys, no problem. Once again, no proof of their existence prior to '75, no can use!
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: BJJ on March 20, 2008, 08:23:50 pm
Hi there

The swing arm as I know it is a pivoted lower extension of the main frame.  Designed in unison with some spongey thing, to save the riders ass.  Been around for some time I think??

http://www.novationracing.com/  

Oh yes,  and if you go to the link,  you will see they do for some other of our friends.  I had seen a quote last year and it weren't cheap.  But cionsidering the $USD,  then if you want one of these babies,  then now is the time to order.  I have done some searches,  they are rare and don't come up S/H.
Looks pretty sexy don't it??  The website don't advertise MX stock, so maybe its  a special 1 off,  or someones magnificent matchup.
Let me know if you need the hi res photos and I will send off to you.
KR
Have a safe and enjoyable long Easter weekend.
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: BJJ on March 20, 2008, 08:28:17 pm
Thanks Firko.  Thanks. I get a bit carried away when I see bling.  Question?  So how would it go if you turned up at NAT's with a Circle-F?
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: firko on March 20, 2008, 08:32:35 pm
No worries, I've got a Circle F pipe myself. The swingarm is indeed a part of the frame and has been around for a while but not in the Novation form. Aftermarket swingarms are cool, I have a Boyd and Stellings alloy unit on my Maico but it was available in 1969. I haven't seen anything like a Novation arm in any of my old magazines.
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: Nathan S on March 20, 2008, 10:14:00 pm
Quote from: firko on March 20, 2008, 08:20:54 pm
My interpritation of the pre '75  rules would make a Novation swingarm illegal as it's not a replica of anything available back in the day. ... It's a joke to think that such a modern looking item would be pre '75 legal.

Wow - I'm agreeing with Firko!?
That swing arm is definitely 'trick', and I have no doubt its a good thing, but I also think it looks like shit and has no place on a pre-75 VMX bike.

Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: mx250 on March 20, 2008, 10:32:56 pm
BTW, great looking bike Bill. Is there a noticeable difference in weight? Can you pick a difference in the ride?
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: firko on March 20, 2008, 10:42:24 pm
Graeme, I've seen this bike somewhere before and I think the BenchRacer magazine logo on the tank gives its nationality away as American. That chain looks a tad tight!
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: mx250 on March 21, 2008, 11:01:52 am
Quote from: firko on March 20, 2008, 10:42:24 pm
Graeme, I've seen this bike somewhere before and I think the BenchRacer magazine logo on the tank gives its nationality away as American. That chain looks a tad tight!
Doh! I noted the same things you had Firko but didn't read Bill's post as closely  ::). I thought it was his bike.

For some time I've been thinking of making a few mods to the MX especially concentrating on reducing unsprung weight, especially on the rear. I reckon I could save about 2kg on the wheel alone.

Without having anything to compare it to, the swingarm feels particularly heavy. I think Yamaha used cheap mild steel made from melted down WW2 battleships and doubled the thickness to get the strength  :D (ditto the chassis).  For sometime I've been looking for an alloy swingarm which might be adapted with a bit of cut and shut. Even without consideration of eligibility I have rejected most on profile/looks (and length).

This is about number 30 in a long list of ideas/projects (which grows longer with a home reno and two investment properties  ::)) but I would love to see and feel the difference it could make to rear wheel compliance, suspension quality, the famous Yamahop and the general handling etc.

It will probably end up a chromoly swinger off a Husky or similar but then I might trip over an unattended orphan Boyd or Ossa alloy swinger in the pits at CD5  ;D

One day  ::) :D

Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: Freakshow on March 21, 2008, 11:42:06 pm
nope,  i hate to say it but i agree with the Ney sayers.

 if you fitted that style of thing you may as well go buy a modern the whole concept is wrong on so many levels
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: jimg1au on March 22, 2008, 08:24:27 am
you can change ignition to computerized laptop programable(never saw laptops in the pits pre75) change internals in front forks and rear shocks,change reed valves for carbon fiber(were was that stuff in 1974)as long as this stuff is the same shape.billet alloy this and billet alloy that all machined on computer controlled machines.expansion chambers computer cut and designed.all the above is allowed.after all it is just a swing arm if there was alloy swing are pre1975 this should be allowed
if it still gives 4 inch rear wheel travel what is the problem.
freakshow
you want to ride USA flat track bikes in pre 1975 dirttrack were these in Australia racing in 1974.
you need all the bikes you can get riding at as many events as possable or the sport will die
just my 2 cents woth
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: mx250 on March 22, 2008, 09:33:56 am
You ask the BIG questions don't you Jim? ;D

I agree with you, and Dick Mann (I think), "If he's got an old bike in the ute, the $10 in the pocket and a good attitude, he gets to ride".

However, there is a difference between what you listed and the Novavation swingarm. Somethings are period, something are inside and outa sight, and something change the appearance of the bike. And that is the line of demarkation at the moment.

The current interpretation is primarily aimmed at keeping the outward appearance. Personally I like that as an aim and, for myself, I would also err  on the side of 'close to original' for the rest of the bike as well including performance. Others take the 'bling' and performance at any cost route.

There is a 'line in the sand' when applying this aim but that line can be blurry at times; e.g. the shape of the replacement chamber.

To recognise that both the pedantic factory fresh NOS resto and  the 'bling' and performance at any cost resto, and everything in between, is all part of our movement. I think all should be welcomed equally at any VMX event including racing.

So no argument from me Jim. But I know the rule, agreed with the reason for the rule, prefer the rule and I go along with the rule, but I would hope it is no 'Big Thing' for the movement, one way or the other.
Title: Re: wanted yamaha yz or mx 250
Post by: Freakshow on March 23, 2008, 09:22:26 pm
Jimbo these bike were around, and yes all that matters is the rule states as in any class if it was raced in the "world" pre 75 its also deemed OK, based on the fact we had dirt track for a long time anything with the year cut off is cosha, included MX bikes which are hardly Dirt track just because you change the rear tyre, or other wise it should have been called speedway, so i think your just off target there.

But i do agree on the other stuff, as far as im concerned all that programable stuff is Outlaw,  moreso from the outside the bike should look as it did when it was racing in its period, uder the current rules you could put a 2008 motor inside 74 cases, but thats not really in the spirit of it i think, and after all its about the bikes, capturing a period for what it was, not for what it could have been, you want to race a bike like that,  simple just ride a modern, if you wanna build a custom for your own enjoyment and building skills go for it, but you wanna race it against others in the spirit of a time capsule, go easy on the mods and the 2000 technology, i cant see the point of transplating/creating a new bike onto a classic frame and to think its going to be a reflection of the period or in the spirit of classic racing. 

There are boundries, some cross them for there own reason, others learn its not all about winning a plastic trophy its about enjoying.