OzVMX Forum

Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: Marc.com on August 02, 2011, 07:36:14 am

Title: milling and drilling
Post by: Marc.com on August 02, 2011, 07:36:14 am
Just bought nice little lathe for turning axles and spacers .... self sufficiency is the target

thinking about milling and drilling machine, anyone had any experience with these, or am I better to drag home universal mill.
Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: lukeb1961 on August 02, 2011, 07:39:29 am
Get a proper standalone mill. as hefty as you can fit. you will find a myriad of uses for it.
The combo things are just too small and either won't fit your job or will chatter.
Luke

Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: Marc.com on August 02, 2011, 08:00:54 am
Yeah I was thinking of going in that direction though of course Universal Mill needs 3 phase power etc and is an ordeal to transport.
Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: Marc.com on August 02, 2011, 08:01:43 am
Mainly I thought I would just use the Mill to make seat brackets, RH copy brake levers and light stuff like that.
Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: Slakewell on August 02, 2011, 09:56:15 am
The costs of small CNC mills these days I think I just wait for one to turn up on ebay , seen them sell for $1,200 , also TAFE sell off action's are good.
Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: Lozza on August 02, 2011, 10:12:20 am
To make a brake lever it's far easier to have a CAD drawing done and have it laser cut or just get a bandsaw. By the time your ready to take your first cut I could churn out 10 on a band saw.CNC is fine but you will have to spend considerable time learning the software and checking G Code(as well as getting your head around always milling 'on the climb'). I would never buy a used CNC unless it has very light use, wear in the slide ways is a big problem.
Mills are fine but the cost of the mill will more than double when the 'necessary' tooling is considered.
I have a Lathe,mill drill works perfect for small stuff and anything bigger I either farm it out, make a CAD file and laser/water jet cut it or go up to a friend's engineering shop.
Beg steal or borrow Harold Halls books on milling in the lathe, you would be surprised on what a skillfull machinist can do in a lathe.
Another big trap is to start making jigs and fixtures to do certain jobs :'(
Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: Marc.com on August 02, 2011, 01:06:44 pm
Beg steal or borrow Harold Halls books on milling in the lathe, you would be surprised on what a skillfull machinist can do in a lathe.
Another big trap is to start making jigs and fixtures to do certain jobs :'(

Yeah that is the other alternatice is to vertically mount 2 axis drill vice and lot of normally mill operations are possible in the lathe
Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: Lozza on August 02, 2011, 01:39:49 pm
https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=L277

These have their limitations, infact no matter the machine tool you quickly find it's limitations ;D
Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: HL500 on August 02, 2011, 02:26:43 pm
I've gone for the separate mill and lathe.  The mill has a 600mm bed and the lathe around 1 metre.  I have to say I'd use the mill twice as much as the lathe, but both are great.  I re-surface crankcases after welding, reseat clutch baskets, shave heads and make all sorts of things.  Generally, I'd cast a new brake lever out of aluminium and then finish it off in the mill.  I Recently cast a brake stay arm to convert the HL500 rear rod brake to a cable brake.  That required both lathe and mill.  I also made a solid nylon chain guard to get the chain away from the frame, swingarm and ohlins shock.

Once you have them you'll find more uses than you could imagine.
Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: lukeb1961 on August 02, 2011, 03:46:53 pm
Once you have them you'll find more uses than you could imagine.
ain't that the truth!
Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: Davey Crocket on August 02, 2011, 03:48:04 pm
I get parts made all the time, but I get old mate down the road to either CNC or waterjet cut it, make a few extras and sell them, you'll never get rich but it helps pay for my "habit". A good operater does it cheap and quick......and a top job!!.....The thing I find I'm constantly short of is time!!....as much as I would love to have my own CNC/mill/lathe, I think thats a retirement dream.
Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: Marc.com on August 02, 2011, 03:57:24 pm
I've gone for the separate mill and lathe.  The mill has a 600mm bed and the lathe around 1 metre.  I have to say I'd use the mill twice as much as the lathe, but both are great. 

Yeah I guess I probably have pretty modest ambitions at the moment as I just imagine spinning axles and spacers. But yeah the more I think about a mill the more I can imagine a range of brake adaptors, seat mounts and YZA clutch actuators. Like you say you can always find work for it if you have it.

Most of my motivation is so we are not held up endlessly waiting for bits to be machined or driving all over town.

Lozza that face plate and vice is what I had in mind to give the lathe a little more scope/
Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: TM BILL on August 02, 2011, 04:53:48 pm
Marc what lathe did you opt for ? cheers Bill.
Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: Marc.com on August 02, 2011, 05:37:12 pm
Marc what lathe did you opt for ? cheers Bill.

Hey Bill, just picked used one off TM, oriental budget special. But 700 between centers, 280mm over the bed and 32mm hole down the middle so it will do what I want.  .... so not too phased about not having my wet dream lathe Colchester Mascot..... maybe next time

My step father is old railway guy and makes brass model trains from scratch, if you want to be really blown away by precision these guys are drilling and tapping at 0.2mm and work on complex parts like grains of sand you can hardly see with the naked eye. All on updated Chinese mill/drill press and lathe the size of a shoebox.

Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: oldyzman on August 02, 2011, 06:58:01 pm
Hard to beat the old bridgeport Milling machine, also very heay to move...
Brett
Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: Marc.com on August 02, 2011, 07:45:45 pm
Hard to beat the old bridgeport Milling machine, also very heay to move...
Brett

thats why I want to keep it real regarding what I expect to do, rather than drag few tons of mill through my life. ;D
Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: HL500 on August 02, 2011, 10:26:06 pm
Weight is definitely a consideration.  I hope my next move is my last.  The lathe weights around 850kg and is gear driven.  The mill is Kirby and weighs around 450kg and cast iron.  We had to use a car hoist to move them.
Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: Lozza on August 03, 2011, 12:19:45 am
Hard to beat the old bridgeport Milling machine, also very heay to move...
Brett

Way over priced and over rated.
Used these mills many times and add a 3 axis DRO for about $500 would be awesome. Many proper engineering shops have these mills in them for jobbing work nobody has a bad word to say.

https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=M1605

https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=M603D


This would be my choice for a littl'un

http://www.smithy.com/index_inside.php?id=177
Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: lukeb1961 on August 03, 2011, 08:46:50 am

This would be my choice for a littl'un

http://www.smithy.com/index_inside.php?id=177
and weighs under half a ton! Very nice.
Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: Marc.com on August 03, 2011, 11:11:27 am
Yeah one of the retire engineers I know has own small CNC mill and lathe in his home workshop. Turns out some brilliant stuff.

Be nice to produce your own goodies, my UDX forks have been digitised so we may see some of those coming out of South Auckland.

Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: sverige on August 14, 2011, 09:33:15 pm
Auction on Tuesday, live internet bidding available.


http://auctions.laudiston.com.au/online.php?action=dai&mode=dap&aid=725&sp=4&gtp=151

http://auctions.laudiston.com.au/online.php?action=dai&mode=dap&aid=725&sp=5&gtp=201


cheers
Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: crash n bern on August 15, 2011, 11:10:41 am
I bought an old Myford 7 lathe from a swap meet that does me because I am clueless when it come to turning and am crap at measuring and working to any kind of accuracy.  I use it for turning up spacers and stuff and have a ball playing around on it and learning.  I probably destroy more than I make on it.

I'd love a small mill but don't get enough shed time to justify it these days.

I did read on a turning forum where some bloke bought a Chinese lathe and stripped it down and rebuilt it with better bearings and stuff to get it into tolerance and said you couldn't beat it for the money.  Beyond me though.
Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: lukeb1961 on August 15, 2011, 11:41:34 am
that might have been OldFart !
Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: Lozza on August 15, 2011, 05:59:37 pm
I did read on a turning forum where some bloke bought a Chinese lathe and stripped it down and rebuilt it with better bearings and stuff to get it into tolerance and said you couldn't beat it for the money.  Beyond me though.
Accuracy is down to the skill of the machinist
Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: crash n bern on August 17, 2011, 07:09:19 am
I did read on a turning forum where some bloke bought a Chinese lathe and stripped it down and rebuilt it with better bearings and stuff to get it into tolerance and said you couldn't beat it for the money.  Beyond me though.
Accuracy is down to the skill of the machinist


Does that mean a good machinist can get accuracy out of a dodgy lathe?
Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: Mike52 on August 17, 2011, 08:02:39 am
I did read on a turning forum where some bloke bought a Chinese lathe and stripped it down and rebuilt it with better bearings and stuff to get it into tolerance and said you couldn't beat it for the money.  Beyond me though.
Accuracy is down to the skill of the machinist
Does that mean a good machinist can get accuracy out of a dodgy lathe?
Can be done Crash but it is a pain in the arrrrrrrrrrrs.
I have a 3mtr b/c chinese lathe , the accuracy is not that good but can it shift some metal. ;D
Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: Marc.com on August 17, 2011, 09:03:39 am
Does that mean a good machinist can get accuracy out of a dodgy lathe?

Yeah on odd occasions I have produced accurate parts with some pretty shitty equipment on board ship. Most machines you can lock the slides or adjust up the wedges in them to get you ball park accuracy, then the rest you can polish out.

Finally added this baby to my workshop tools. I didn't have any need for Bridgeport that I could imagine. Just the odd VMX project on the weekends.

(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/182562104_full.jpg)
Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: sudman on August 17, 2011, 12:49:20 pm
I have milling cross slide on my old Atlas lathe & they both get used lots on VMX projects, nothing better than making your own bits.
Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: Marc.com on August 17, 2011, 01:38:13 pm
I have milling cross slide on my old Atlas lathe

Yeah I will probably do both as my lathe is a little more rigid if you are making things out of bits of mild steel.

Also vertical cross slide has its uses if you are notching tube for welding frames and brackets etc. Next is probably band saw which is also another one of those things that you can use pretty accurately in prepping stuff for milling. Bandsaw mounted with accurated adjustable vice fits the picture.

Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: Lozza on August 17, 2011, 01:55:58 pm
Accuracy is down to the skill of the machinist


Does that mean a good machinist can get accuracy out of a dodgy lathe?

Yes most lathes and mills wear around the centre of the travel, just knowing that helps. If I were to look at buying a used lathe I would arrive with a reasonable size hollow bar or rod and take a test cut with the cross slide locked and longditudinal power feed on. Then mic around the centre of the bar, Any change in OD will have to be wear in the slideways, you have to go up to tool room (Moriseki etc) lathes to get them not to cut a taper.

Marc the round columns have a problem stayng on centre when the head is raised or lowered. If it cuts on the backcut the head isn't straight.
Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: Marc.com on August 17, 2011, 02:11:33 pm
Any change in OD will have to be wear in the slideways, you have to go up to tool room (Moriseki etc) lathes to get them not to cut a taper.

Marc the round columns have a problem stayng on centre when the head is raised or lowered. If it cuts on the backcut the head isn't straight.

Hi Lozza thanks for the tips, I will have to try the bar test at some point and take some measurements. But as long as I can hold a couple of hundredths over 300mm that will be good enough for bike axles and more than good for spacers.

Interesting my step father bought Chinese drill press for $100, fitted precision bearings and tuned it to make a mill for his model train parts ..... it is accurate enough to within a few microns at the drill chuck, so a lot can be achieved in the set up..... plus ditching the bearings in anything from China and Korea is a step forward.
Title: Re: milling and drilling
Post by: bazza on August 17, 2011, 06:20:16 pm
hey mark thats good enough to build chineese metisse........lol