OzVMX Forum

Clubroom => Tech Talk => Topic started by: wmc83 on May 21, 2011, 04:48:01 pm

Title: Wodruff key
Post by: wmc83 on May 21, 2011, 04:48:01 pm
Where can you buy one of these on a Sunday on the goldcoast? ???
Title: Re: Wodruff key
Post by: wmc83 on May 21, 2011, 04:53:08 pm
Whoops I ment woodruff
Title: Re: Wodruff key
Post by: smed on May 21, 2011, 05:55:23 pm
Supercheap auto maybe? :)
Title: Re: Wodruff key
Post by: YZ250H on May 21, 2011, 08:25:25 pm
A wise old parts man who sold me one for my 465 (from what used to be Moorooka Yamaha) told me I should always have a spare  ::) )  I took his advice.

Sounds like there is a story to tell  ::)
Title: Re: Wodruff key
Post by: Iain Cameron on May 21, 2011, 08:48:47 pm
yea Yz250h ty Yamaha's go though them like wildfire then I moved to vmx Dt/Rt s eat them . allways carry a few in the box . Back to the problem wmc83 in the past Ive used any bit of steel made to fit (file ,grind, hacksaw ) then plenty of loctite shaft . hope this helps
Title: Re: Wodruff key
Post by: wmc83 on May 21, 2011, 08:50:40 pm
I even had a spare but do you think I can find the little bugger! I should have known better the crank and fly wheel have never been run together before and I haven't lapped them and after a spin around the block no start. I kicked it over so many times it looks like I polished the kick starter! so it Looks like I'll be cutting up a fallen tree tomorrow instead of riding  :-\
Title: Re: Wodruff key
Post by: Iain Cameron on May 21, 2011, 08:56:35 pm
don't miss out on a ride make one and use lots of locktite . what sort of bike wmc83?
Title: Re: Wodruff key
Post by: wmc83 on May 21, 2011, 09:07:02 pm
It's a 89 RMX250 apparently it's a common problem with them. Thanks for the advice guys but I'm going to be short on time to fix it so I'll fix it during the week might even polish the rest of the kick start so it matches ;)
Title: Re: Wodruff key
Post by: YZ250H on May 21, 2011, 09:57:28 pm
Ha ha - isn't that always the way....  Yeah I've got a spare one of those around somewhere  ::) ::) ::)
Don't worry - I have even bought 2 parts the same off ebay 'cause I had forgotten I had the first one  ::)
Title: Re: Wodruff key
Post by: Lozza on May 21, 2011, 11:53:15 pm
It's a 89 RMX250 apparently it's a common problem with them. Thanks for the advice guys but I'm going to be short on time to fix it so I'll fix it during the week might even polish the rest of the kick start so it matches ;)

It is just lap with valve paste, do the nut up with a rattle gun and forget the key
Title: Re: Wodruff key
Post by: pmc57 on May 22, 2011, 12:56:59 pm
If all else fails, make one. Typically they are about a R12mm radius so get hold of a peice of 25mm or 1" diameter round bar, measure the width of the keyway and cut with a hacksaw just over the width required, then measure the depth of the keyway in the shaft and add a couple of mm, scribe this dimension across the disc and cut again. The fiddly stuff happens next when you have to file the key to fit. Trick is not to make it too loose. Even mild steel will last well if it's not too loose a fit.
Title: Re: Wodruff key
Post by: tony27 on May 22, 2011, 03:23:08 pm
This is the site I used to make spares for my CZ when I was having issues with the taper, measure the width & go from there. Quite quick to make if you have access to a lathe

http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Keyways/woodruff_keyways.html
Title: Re: Wodruff key
Post by: Bikeaholic on May 23, 2011, 12:08:26 am
When I've needed them I've been able to buy them from the Bearing Supply shop. They have a range of sizes available and cost stuff all
Title: Re: Wodruff key
Post by: EML on May 24, 2011, 01:42:20 pm
The secret is in the lapping-not the key(woodruff) and not the bolt and certainly not the locktight.
A hint that came after a recent bout of flywheelitis was if you use Locktite-let it set for as long as you can-a week, a month, a year.
Title: Re: Wodruff key
Post by: chrisdespo on June 12, 2011, 10:40:47 am
Being a bit of a bike mechanic been in the trade over 35 years don't use loctite on these , sounds more to me like you dont have the flywheel tight enough check your tension.  the other problem that is common is the wrong sized key. to fit in the crank it must be a tight fit, really needs to be tapped in gently and must be snug in flywheel. remember that when you by from the machine shop or garage they may be metric or imperial if its not snug its not right.
Title: Re: Wodruff key
Post by: cheapracer on June 19, 2011, 09:54:14 pm
It's the taper that holds the flywheel on, the key is just to locate it wheres it supposed to be on the shaft. If it's coming loose you have taper problems not key problems. Those here who work in factories know that taper shafts (drills, lathes etc) just push in with your hand yet need a wedge and hammer to remove them again.

Sometimes hours of lapping is required to match the tapers again after damage has occured or idiots that put them on with rubbish on the shaft or flywheel.

Don't forget after lapping to remove the lip that you create on the fat end of the crank taper - this lip is often a source of trouble on a damaged/worn taper as people think the flywheel is tight but it's just butted up against that lip and still not secure on the taper.
Title: Re: Wodruff key
Post by: Mike52 on June 20, 2011, 08:10:53 am
Don't forget after lapping to remove the lip that you create on the fat end of the crank taper

Is that possible ? ???
After all it is a taper and the flywheel keeps moving towards -----> the FAT end the more you lap it.
Title: Re: Wodruff key
Post by: cheapracer on June 21, 2011, 05:40:06 pm

the flywheel keeps moving towards -----> the FAT end the more you lap it.

Hope so, that's where your new taper is created.

Yes it moves up the taper that's why you get the lip. A flat draw file and a few minutes will do the job. I have had to remove the lip first that's there from being loose then lap then remove the lip then lap then etc etc. as the lip also stops you lapping.

When I did my apprenticeship many bikes being serviced still had things called points and condensors requiring flywheel removal to change them! The good 'ol days - yeah right.
Title: Re: Wodruff key
Post by: chrisdespo on July 02, 2011, 01:08:01 pm
We Know the taper holds the flywheel and the key locates in correct position but if the key and the tensions were corect in the first place the taper would not be worn or damaged, this is just an observation i make. i guess with old things you never know what the dill before you has done.
Title: Re: Wodruff key
Post by: pancho on July 02, 2011, 06:10:22 pm
 The key does Nothing but locate the flywheel for timing. The minute the key takes load it means the taper has slipped.
pancho
Title: Re: Wodruff key
Post by: chrisdespo on July 03, 2011, 10:59:23 am
generally not tightened to the corect tension on a taper in good condition many a time i have seen a flywheel or rotor loose and damage key and once key has been replaced and tightened corectly you have no more problems untill a backyard mechanic has a go again and then when is stuffed again it would be brought back to the shop and fixed again properly not just keys here i am talking about engines and all other assorted components. and yes i know not all backyarders are bad mechanics just like all  not shop mechanics are good at what they do. I know some really great riders that can fix anything and then there are others that ride like angles and couldn't fix a tap washer.