OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => British (BSA, Greeves, Triumph etc) => Topic started by: firko on May 03, 2011, 11:40:06 am
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Flower Pot Ben sent me these shots of his friends mystery motocross frame. It appears to be professionally built and well proportioned. Jonesy, Ben and I agree that it has carries a lot of resemblence to a 'mini' featherbed Norton design but that's all we can figure out. The engine mounts appear to be for a BSA B40/C15 engine going by the narrow rear engine mount and oil outlet. The spacing of the rear mounts would be much wider if it was for a B44/B50 engine. We're keen to unravel the mystery of the frames heritage so.......Anyone got any ideas?
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/odd%20frame%204.bmp.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/odd%20frame.bmp.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/odd%20frame%202.bmp.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/odd%20frame%203.bmp.jpg)
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Firko it may be a very rare Spagforth prototype ridden by the great Edgar Jesop?
Or maybe I have no idea. ;D
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Mick....a couple of folks suggested that it may be a pre unit Spagforth Swallow frame but after reading Jessops excellent history of the Spagforth marque I tend to disregard that line of thought ;).
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Nice find...
I'll go with ex Clint Eastwood. ;D
"The Scrap Book Series Norton" James Robinson from the publishers of The Classic Motorcycle covers alot with photos of these frames - all the good stuff 8)
cheers A
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that little open bar after the lower rear brace would be someting to follow up on, looks a bit propreity. and the air box too. small stuff liek that always seem to lead to the big answers.
then again ben you should have shunted motors in and out before the powdercoat so you had some ideas going ....... :D
i can sell you some rear spoilers for that bike if your interested ? i know werre there are 3 going cheap. ( did you get the last email ? i think we should put them on ebay and get some money back - there worth $15 each at least . split the profit with ya ;)
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that little open bar after the lower rear brace would be someting to follow up on, looks a bit propreity. and the air box too. small stuff liek that always seem to lead to the big answers.
then again ben you should have shunted motors in and out before the powdercoat so you had some ideas going ....... :D
i can sell you some rear spoilers for that bike if your interested ? i know werre there are 3 going cheap. ( did you get the last email ? i think we should put them on ebay and get some money back - there worth $15 each at least . split the profit with ya ;)
Answers on a postcard please..... a real Metisse (mongrel) Front half is Rickman inspired, back end Cheney / BSA. Not mine, it's a mates. I would not have painted it before it was built. Always a shame to damage any finish when you realise that bracket for holding that widget is missing.....
Guards are best left out for the dustbin man I think. He collects the rubbish every other wednesday. Tomorrow is green bin ~ recycling. Black bin ~ is next week....... More effort than they are worth.....
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Thanks for posting Mark. One day I will work out how to post pictures.....!
All help gratefully recieved.
I dont know what it is. Does anyone recognise it?
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So far the obvious;
1) motorcycle frame
2) for a dry sump four stroke engine.
3) No foot peg mounting points. So an engine that commonly had the peg mounts adapted onto the engine covers?
just trying to be constructive, so it would be nice not to hear;
Oh yeah you think Mick??
Oh no shit sherlock ::)
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So are we looking at symmetrical holes on each side of the air box in those pics?
If so, twin air ducting for a twin cylinder engine ???
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Its blue in colour.
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How wide are the engine mount frame tabs?
What is the distance between the front and rear engine mount hole centres?
Armed with knowledge of what engine it was made for, will obviously take us a lot closer to its origin.
Oh yeah, what do we win when someone finally falls upon the eureka moment?
A ride ;D
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C15/B40 measure 320mm centre's between front and rear mounts, the front mount inside measures 46mil and rear 31mil ,is the top of the airbox open ? hope it helps -cheers :)
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The Scrap Book Series Norton" James Robinson from the publishers of The Classic Motorcycle covers alot with photos of these frames
It's not a Norton frame Alison-it's 'kinda Featherbed' in layout but it's pretty obvious that it's an aftermarket frame.
Armed with knowledge of what engine it was made for, will obviously take us a lot closer to its origin.
Mick, from careful study of the mounts it appears to be for an early BSA unit engine (C15/B40).
If so, twin air ducting for a twin cylinder engine
The twin air ducting has little to do with the number of cylinders Mick. My Cheney single has a dual inlet airbox, as are Metisse airboxes, no matter what engine is used. That airbox is neither Cheney or Metisse but is obviously very professionally made, as is the frame. This is no backyard boilermaker special ;D.
I'm a bit on Bens side in that despite it's Norton looks, it also has elements of both Cheney, Metisse and BSA. I'm wondering if it might be made in Sweden...those buggers made a hell of a lot of aftermarket frames in the sixties or perhaps France? Has anyone got a photo of a aftermarket Puissant four stroke frame for comparison?
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Puissant......!? ET VOILA'..!! ;)
<a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=112gxw7" target="_blank"><img src="http://i56.tinypic.com/112gxw7.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>
<a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=aw9w1e" target="_blank"><img src="http://i55.tinypic.com/aw9w1e.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>
ciao
Graziano
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(http://i56.tinypic.com/112gxw7.jpg)
(http://i55.tinypic.com/aw9w1e.jpg)
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Those two pictures are of a Puissant 500 twin. Built by Derek Miller in about 1959. Derek sadly passed away about a year or so ago. The engine is running at just under 600cc and goes very very well. There is much history to this bike.
Those are the two pictures I posted some while ago on mxtrax to advertise the bike for sale. It was eventually sold locally, and may make an appearance in scrambles here.
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Ian, do the frame lines under the tank of 159 look like the frame lines of my mates frame? Very Metisse inspired...
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So.........Is Bens mates frame a Puissant? If so I win the lucky door prize. ;D
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When it's finished, I am sure the the owner wouldnt mind you putting a leg over. The bike will be in France.
When are you coming?
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When are you coming?
Who me? I'll make you a deal....You come down for CD8 and I'll got to Beauval in France. ;)
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Dont tempt me.
Think the wife would kill me...
I hope to come one day when the kids are older.
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Ben, as far as I am aware Derek never built a frame for the unit construction motors. Nothing to say this one has not been altered to suit, but the frame up-tubes at the back of the motor cradle do not look long enough to accomodate a pre-unit motor.
There is a frame builder Essex way that could be the instigator. No idea of his name at the moment, but it may come to me after another glass or two.
On another note .... we too were thinking of going to Melborne (sp) at christmas. But I think the cost for myself, Corinna and the two kids would be prohibitive. Looks like the wifes sister will have to come back here if she wants to see us. Anyway, what the hell would I do for 3 weeks in the suburbs ? Apart from blagging a ride on something and going skydiving that is.
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So....the mystery thickens. Here's some more photos of the frame. One thing for sure, the builder sure knew how to drive his tube bender. I reckon it's a gorgeous piece of kit, up there with Harry Hindalls work :)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/frame%205.bmp.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/frame%204.bmp.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/frame%203.bmp.jpg)
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Harry Hindall is your beloved? ???
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Harry Hindall is your beloved?
I guess that doesn't read right ;D.....His frames are cool, Harry'd dead anyway.
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Sorry, couldn't resist. ;)
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Flower Pot Ben sent me these shots of his friends mystery motocross frame.
So does it have an intreaging past ...like Ben found it at the rubbish dump or on the side of the road or he's just aquired it ??
cheers A
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Well built, quality.
Interested to hear its history.
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Flower Pot Ben sent me these shots of his friends mystery motocross frame.
So does it have an intreaging past ...like Ben found it at the rubbish dump or on the side of the road or he's just aquired it ??
cheers A
It's not mine, It is owned by a friend. It is NOS and hasnt been built into a bike before. He bought it in the belief that it is a Cheney. Having seen it I am not so sure. I'll ask him to look at this post. Perhaps he can join the forum and add his own detail....
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I asked Howard at Faber if he recognised it? (ie a Faber Frame or Puisant?)
He said.... 'It looks like a Tony Burgess Frame'.
A Burgess frame, that would be a result. I will try and find him and ask....... anyone got a contact for him?
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bump !
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Ben,
It's not a Mojo frame is it ???
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MOJO?
No, it's much older than that. Mark has only been doing his own work for 8ish years (no doubt worng on that front and will be corrected)
This frame is much older from when the bike waould have been a 'current' model rather than a recent fabrication.
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Any luck yet Ben?
Any better photo's?
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Any luck....?
Yes! Sold it!
Bit more space in the garage, now just need to focus on all the other stuff that I have been hoarding.....
The new owner will be turning it into a 4 stroke special and it'll be seeing action next year.....
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Thought that might be the case 8)