OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: rough rider on April 28, 2011, 08:44:17 pm
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hi guys , i need a bit of info regarding VMX bike scrutineering
i have recently have dug out ( and i mean dug out ! ) my fathers CZ 125 and 250 from his back shed i intend to do a bit of a resto on them and ride them at crystal brook in semptember
now these bike are in original condition and as they were when raced back in the mid 70's
so im talking no kill switches , solid mount foot pegs ( non folding ) no mufflers , which i see there is a db test in the scrutineering check list
will these needed to be added ?
also the 125 has had a rear suspension mod and has been lifted a few inches which was done when it was raced back in the 70's and has the original CZ branded air suspension ( which still works ! ) fitted will this need to be changed back to std to get in the gate ?
is there a site i can go to to find out what must be fitted to these bike so i can use them again in competition
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for a club race I doubt there'd be a problem with the suspension mods, the footpegs would need to be made to fold and self-return, and I'm thinking a killswitch would be a given although no-one ever checks they work?
Same with mufflers at a club day, there's no db readings taken (in brissy anyway)
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the event i am looking at in crystal brook is the 2011 Australian Classic Motorcross Championship , sorry i should have added that
they might be fairly strict there , but cant find what requirements are needed
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As you want to ride the Nationals , the M.A rule book would be the go.
To run pre 75 you need to have 4'' of rear travel. Measures by wheel travel from extended to compressed, . Take one shock off and let the air out of the other. 7'' in the front. Muffler fitted.Folding foot pegs. Run a kill switch. A sprocket cover is required ::). Looks like you do your own scrutineering at that meeting and fill out and sign the paper that accompanied the sub regs.
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What year model are the bikes? Were the airshock bikes '75 models?
They will have to have the shocks mounted in the original frame position if that's been changed.
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Yes the 75 Falta's had airshocks.
Not sure how legal it would be converting the frames back to 74 specs
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Take some photo`s of the bikes and up load them on to this thread then we will have a better disscription of the bikes and what we are dealing with.
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suggest that you download the GCRs from the MA web and look to the safety regs first; at very least the basics of plugged bars, countershaft covers, folding foot pegs that self return etc need to be done. Mufflers will need to be fitted if it dosnt have one, this will be an issue at the Nats (for others to note) there will be no straight thru pipes on anything.
Look forward to seeing the bikes, what took so long to extract them from the shed?
211 - the scrutineer at the Nats
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Brad, Althought you sign off your own bikes thats more a safety thing and legals, so we can get racing underway without the drugery for 2 hrs in the morning eaten up with a line up, before nay think can happen.
It is anticipated that at the end of the days racing most likely after that classes first rounds, some bikes will be called out at random and also those that we have concerns about as far as eligibility to be presented for safety and eligibility scuitineering, then if required we ask they be brought up to expectations if they want to continue to participate in the event and indicate that we have given them fore warning, in that if they were to be protested it would be upheld, so they have time to make it right before getting on the line the next time.
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got some pics but cant see how to up load them on here ??
so looks like i will need to chase some folding pegs for the 250 which is a 71 model BTW , and a muffler of some sort
thanks for all the replies , i wasnt sure if i would have to do these mods as i thought the bikes would have to be as original as possible and adding things like mufflers might not be aloud
211kawaski , i was talking to a fellow member of this forum who told me about the nationals at crystal brook that got me all interested in having a ride , especially since i we had some bikes in the family
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Well, good on you Roughie, but please get the bikes kosher with help from your local vmx club members or the erudite members of this very forum, so there's no risk of disappointment when you do lob at Crystal Brook and get stuck in. You won't regret it ! ;)
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well i got some pics uploaded on the home page but still not sure how to get them here , anyway here is the link to them , you may have to click on view pics to see them all
http://ausvmx.ning.com/photo/cz-098?context=user
first pic it the footpegs on the 250 which i am told are original equipment
pic 2 is the cz 125 with the modded suspension , this was done when it was raced back in the 70's by the original owner Trevor Kubish who raced the bike here in SA and told he did very well on it , he was the original owner of both these bikes
pic 3 is of the air bag shockers which have been added to the 125 and are original CZ brand as you can see by the stickers the lift has been done by changing the top mounting position of the shockers , the original mounts are still in place but not used
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The 125 is a 75-76 model falta , the rear shock mount will need to be put back to the orginal possion and you should be able to ride it in pre 75 classes or leave them as they are and use it in the pre 78 class. Footpegs will also need to be changed to folding one on the 250, is the 250 a twinport model, as l would have thought that the 68 model CZ 250 had folding footpegs. Rough Rider it is in your best interest to have the bikes right and safe for you to ride and enjoy, the bikes look sad and its time for you to show them off, see you their at the Nationals, if you need any support we will help.
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Reackon its easier to ride it in the pre 78 125 class. looking at those pegs, depending on the spline a normal yamaha dt250 etc pre had the same sort ofspline fit arm, be cheap as fit them on and then make them with folding pegs on them to the right hieght be easy as.
(http://api.ning.com/files/GIhF1qNxr4iAKmRGYjprDkz-Tu26sDwoWsprEo088Fo1fLmfnPPbbcebRuX9onISXcXSBv6SlF-md65nuAHWQKqt*tOxXnHL/cz098.JPG?width=450&height=600)
(http://api.ning.com/files/Ni3RCd7liOSE18s6PFQfpfLvHiaCP9kJGdOJzmgcZkYSetXejNN*jWVcpIeVl6EgeBh9zOT6attF4qP7kxzgJLU28Jutr4KD/cz097.JPG?width=737&height=552)
(http://api.ning.com/files/Ni3RCd7liOQRl0Ony34uu5syA9Zjszi8noYNNpK-vzFI0dClBXf7fE96Xzm0TLUHkk9hw1HfrAlDd5-pTrDQYnhebtELRfAU/cz100.JPG?width=450&height=600)
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Reackon its easier to ride it in the pre 78 125 class. looking at those pegs, depending on the spline a normal yamaha dt250 etc pre had the same sort ofspline fit arm, be cheap as fit them on and then make them with folding pegs on them to the right hieght be easy as.
(http://api.ning.com/files/GIhF1qNxr4iAKmRGYjprDkz-Tu26sDwoWsprEo088Fo1fLmfnPPbbcebRuX9onISXcXSBv6SlF-md65nuAHWQKqt*tOxXnHL/cz098.JPG?width=450&height=600)
That pipe has a muffler and they are folding pegs ( on the 125), so they are fine. Are the original shock mounts still there? Looks like they are. I'm sure you can use those shocks as long as there isn't too much rear wheel travel. The 250 needs the same foot pegs as the 125 has. They are cz pegs and are on ebay all the time.
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Rough Rider, any chance in seeing the 250 l am keen to know what model it is.
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here's a link to a pic of the 250, its a bit rougher than the 125 but should still do up ok with a bit of paint work , has a good motor where the 125 is a bit rattly , needs a piston which is proving hard to find at this stage
http://ausvmx.ning.com/photo/photo/listForContributor?screenName=0gyjxxqex7lzl
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The 250 looks good, make sure that the handlebars are plugged, and change the foot pegs and shocks are working well. great bike Piston call Ron gill in Western Australia or google CZ stuff in UK cheers david
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thanks 33M , can anyone PM me a contact number for Ron Gill ?
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I will, just need to find it, bare with me. cheers
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Have a look through the CZ threads, number is in there somewhere
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Ron Gill phone number is 08 97918358 good luck
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thanks for the number , ron was able to come through with the goods :)
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needs a piston which is proving hard to find at this stage
Suzuki TS250 piston? Wiseco?
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i have an early ts250 for sale NOS can check the size if you interested
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It's the 125 he needs the piston for
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yeah its 's the 125 i was looking for , i have one now from ron , 3rd oversize so will now get barrel bored to suit ( is second oversize now )
250 pistons dont seem to be as hard to get , readily avalible in all sizes on ebay from the states if needed , ron has them as well
might need another 125 piston soon as my cousin is getting out another 125 CZ he has , ex dave basham bike , he won the 73 125 national title on it , motor is very worn last time it was used it had little compression and had to be push started , see how much time we get to it going he is doing a 250 ATM for the VMX nationals
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We are a little off topic here..but ...you can check who won the 1973 125 title..... and i am pretty sure it wasn't on a 125 CZ..maybe S.A. title but not national...
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you are right mate this is waaaay off topic !
had a look cant find results sorry , it may have been SA title , i was told it was nationals and was held at Clarendon ( i think from memory ) here in SA
anyway whatever title he won with this bike on the same day he aparrently won the 250 class as well , so i am told , it was before my time :)
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The 1973 Australian Motocross 125 Championship, Foster Park, N.S.W. results.....
1: Gary Flood-Bultaco
2: Trevor Flood-Yamaha
3: P. Heagney-Bultaco.
Dave Basham won the Aussie 125 title in 1971 at Clarenden in S.A. on a CZ.
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not sure what the story with this 125 is then , we were told it was the bike he used and my uncle bought it from bashem and we still have the numbere plates that were on the bike when he rode it in the nationals somewhere. but it has 72 on the id plate unless the titles were in late 71 and he aready had the next years model ??
anyway back on topic ;)
are we able to use these plastic replica CZ coffin tanks in pre 75 shown in the link below , tried to find out in the gcrs but its unclear
http://www.crhighperformance.com/pictures/tanks200.jpg
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Yes.
You can change cosmetics, exhausts, handlebars, ignitions, carby's (so long as carby is a pre 75 model) guards, etc. etc.
You’r supposed to keep original...
frames, hubs, forks,
crankcases, barrel and head must be the same externally.
You can change pistons from any model but you supposed to keep the original gearbox.
You can also swap any part from any other model so long as its from the era that you’ve entered, eg, pre 75
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are we able to use these plastic replica CZ coffin tanks in pre 75
Absolutely. Everything GMC says. As long as all of the major parts used on the bike were available prior to 1975 or are replicas of pre '75 period parts you're fine. The plastic tank shown is a replica of commonly available aftermarket tanks from the period. (Pacifico, Clarke etc).
The exception to the above are....., ignition, fork internals, shock absorbers (no remote reservoirs), tyres, engine internals (as long as any capacity increases are acknowledged by entry in the class reflecting the new capacity). All of these items are classed as "consumables" that can be replaced with modern alternatives. As GMC says, the engine must remain externally unchanged but aftermarket heads (Webco, ACK etc)are allowed as long as they are period correct.
The VMX builders best friends are period magazines with articles and ads showing the aftermarket parts used as well as articles, tests and ads on the bike in question. The second best friends are the guys who have built similar bikes. As they've done the hard yards in the past, they'll surely have an inside line on build quirks, parts sources and potential pitfalls. The third best friend is the MoMs rule book which will help you with the basics. The book is far from perfect but it's difficult to build a bike correctly without it guiding you through the legalities.
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If you're looking at getting a plastic tank it may pay to give Les at Vmx unlimited a call, I was talking to him last week & he reckoned tanks cost about $200. The site only has about 20% of the products he stocks on it at the moment
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well i have the 125 fully stripped down , had the frame sand blasted and resprayed and am starting to re assemble it while the engine is being rebored etc
just want to check , i want to ride this in the pre 75 125 class as it is or was purchased in 74 , although the id plate has no year stamped on it for some reason ,
i need to have the rear shocks rebuilt as they are leaking ,which were the air type shown here
http://ausvmx.ning.com/photo/cz-098?context=user
before i spend any money on them i want to make sure i can use them in this class , other wise i will put the money into getting 2 new shockers which are ok to use
the center to center measurement is about 1/2 " longer than std shockers and the original mounts are still on the frame and they are the mounts i will be using
these shocks were purchased separatly to the bike , not sure if they were avalible before 75 ?
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you won`t have any problem if you use them, but it would be best to have a look around, NJB shock are very good 99 pounds. falcon shocks, hagon shocks, all worth considing. cheers 33 m
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You are allowed to use 2011 shocks as they are a consumable. The only thing is you cant use a piggy back type (which they arent) and you cannot have more than 100mm rear wheel travel. So you put one shock in and take a measurement from the rear axle point to a static point on the rear of the frame with the shock extended and again when fully compressed. The difference can be no more than 100mm. Hope this helps.
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thanks guys :)
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You are allowed to use 2011 shocks as they are a consumable.
I'm no authority on the issue, but I wonder if an airshock is okay for pre 75,
If airshocks were avaiable before 75 then it's not an issue.
It would be a bit like fitting a shortened Fox Shox to a pre 75.
You can use any shock that has the same / similar technology which is why you can't use piggybacks in pre 75, just wondering out loud if the same applies with these shocks???
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Good point. Best ask 211Kawasaki to be sure about that one.
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CZ had a form of air shock fitted in 73- 74 on their works bikes and became a production item in 1975 .
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There is heaps of info and pics on CZ’s here that may help you inc set up an tips of forks and those air shocks you have.
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/cousinweedy/
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/ZedandWeedysOtherPicturePlace/
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/zedandweedy/
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Who says you cant use piggy back in pre 75 ??? what do you think thermo shocks are ?? or are you using a differing definition ? Thermo piggies are standard on all YZ, MX and Dt from 1972'
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happy to be corrected but i think as stewy says the production CZ air shocks were fitted to the 75 Falta models therefore inelidgible for pre 75 :-\
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Piggyback shocks are totally legal for pre '75 but remote reservior aren't. We duked this old chestnut out at the Barrabool Nats many years ago when Roy Gay* turned up with piggyback Ohlins on his '74 Maico. I was called in to make a decision and allowed the bike to race based on the wording in the rulebook "remote reservior rear shocks are not eligible" doesn't say "piggyback". As Freaky has mentioned, a precedent has been set by Yamaha Thermalflows and more importantly, Marzocci piggybacks being available prior to 1975.
The CZ air shock is a situation that should be ajuducated by the commission but I feel that they probably should be allowed based on the wording in the rulebook as it stands at present. In other words, they pass every aspect of the listed criteria. Performance wise, they're nothing flash and I'd actually be looking for something a bit better if it was me building the bike.
* Has anyone noticed Roy Gay featuring in the TV ad for Real Insurance? As an actor he's up there with Pee Wee Herman for on screen charisma ;D
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Rumour has it that the 2012 rule book has been completely re written , stripped apart and rebuilt defining every out dated, forgotten or unknow quantity , so you will be able to build your bike for an era class and see what in and whats not...... should make life a hole lot simplier with the grey skies moving away....
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I thought that was him firko, so it wheely was eh?
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Here is some old Koni piggybacks i saw the otherday. Never seen them before
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqIOKjIE26kgwt79BN0zL+g3Rg~~_12.JPG)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqQOKokE3F!V(bN4BN0zMF(sHQ~~_12.JPG)
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Who says you cant use piggy back in pre 75 ??? what do you think thermo shocks are ?? or are you using a differing definition ? Thermo piggies are standard on all YZ, MX and Dt from 1972'
Yes I was using a differing definition, it’s called Forum shorthand, and I was referring to real shocks, not Thermal Flows (do doubt I just insulted someone then).
I had the same interpretation as Wasp in regards to any reservoir outside of the main shock body being remote.
I thought the rule book actually said something about only Thermal Flow piggybacks being allowed in Pre 75 but can’t see it now, either it’s another rule that’s been changed or I’ve been believing my own dreams again.
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firko it`s un-real that roy gay can get on tv but i wouldn`t say "featuring".from tv star to vice pres at city of penrith mcc the only is up for roy.
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hi guys , having trouble getting some fork wiper seals ATM , same as this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/10-Sets-CZ-Ossa-Husqvarna-35mm-Fork-Wipers-Seal-Covers-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2c5445783eQQitemZ190392399934QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
and its holding up my rebuild getting it back on its wheels , just wondering if i can use fork gators in the pre 75 class ?, not sure if they were around back then :)
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Gators have been around forever. Have you tried http://www.vmxunlimited.com/products/CZ-Fork-Dust-Seals.html (http://www.vmxunlimited.com/products/CZ-Fork-Dust-Seals.html)?
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yeah i have had a look there , but says like other places i have got some gear from recently , out of stock
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you can use gators. it not a problem, just not fluro ;D ;D
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Try Charlie Richardson from CRhighperformance in California.
I got mine from him along with seals,springs & damper rods when I first started reusing my 380.
The pipe I ordered earlier this month took less than a week to arrive
http://www.crhighperformance.com/products.html
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thanks but i have contacted charlie also , he to is out of stock and currently changing supplier as he has had trouble getting supply , he is unable to tell me when he will have stock
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Bugger. Have you tried CZstuff in the UK?
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they list them , sending them an email to check stock
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If you don't have any joy I can dig my original set out & check their condition, they weren't split or cracked from memory
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Did you have any luck with CZ stuff?
I found my old ones & they've gone hard but would probably soften up if you soaked them in brake fluid like is meant to happen with old rubber manifolds.
PM me if you'd like them
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thanks mate :) i think i have found some on ebay , just waiting a reply same size and part number as ones listed for CZ but listed for a husky . ilm after 4 pairs for a couple of others also
i will contact you if i get stuck
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Husqvarna-1967-1968-1969-250-360-400-35mm-Fork-Wipers-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2ea68d8f34QQitemZ200362790708QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories