OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: Freakshow on February 11, 2008, 12:11:39 pm
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Was getting feedback from some of the guys that went to the PI testing sessions with the Moto GP boys, opionion is still Casey is looking the goods, but interesting things apparently on the cards for some teams as far as support. lAck of kit was another sign they are hanging in there.
For what its worth if your interested thoughts included
Dovizioso, Toesland, De Angelis doing well & so soon, These guys have no respect 4 the old timers, (expect to see a bit of fairing bashing) come the 1st round under lights.
Marco has admitted that his results this season will be poor "as no one can ride the Ducati apart from Casey, big mistake coming over from Honda".
Apart from the new talent & the tyre war there is not much to look forward in the new season , as once again the bikes need to be ridden inch perfect most of all on entry into corners. Slides onto a long straight effect top speed which will see you outbraked, therefore there is no room for creative riding where you rely on using brutal horsepower to pull you out of trouble. The fuel economy is a big issue & managing this & tyre wear has put even more emphasis on electronics. Maganeti Marelli who supply Ducati & Yamaha with the electronics are now supplying Kawasaki & the improvement has been substantial.
Looking @ Hoppers & West's times you may not think so but they have a major issue with the clutch and as it is not of electronic nature they are awaiting new hardware development parts for it, to be supplied by FCC (you may remember them as leaders from the 2 stroke classes).
Michelin have been working very hard , there a a few new faces in the French tyre suppliers sheds & offices , a big effort 4 sure developing the new 16" tyres. This will be the only thing that may help Rossi (if it does).
All things being equal, Casey will dominate as he has during the tests where he was is making fools of them.
The other guys didn't even want to play with him during the tests , most have given up.
He only did 2 laps @ a time when he was working on that ultra fast lap of 1:28.777 around noon on Friday, almost a second faster then Nicky. Stoner then did a race simulation & packed up by 3:40, leaving the rest to ride around 'till 6.
Some thing of note is that he used a 4" front rim to mount the 16.5" Bridgestones, how he manages to keep the thing agile & super sharp on the turn-in to a corner is a bit of a paradox .
Would like to see him ride that thing without traction & mono wheel control & when those rules come through ( by '09 - '10 for sure), he will be the one that will benefit the most.
He really impressed with his commitment and concentration level to the way he rides the bike to lap so fast (not even a hint of a mistake - anywhere & bang there is the lap), reminds me of Maccy D as the extra effort that you can clearly see would seem to result in @ least 2 second advantage and most of the time it's only .5 of a second. This is the reason why the rest know that they are beating their heads against the wall.
Sad to see only 2 Honda bikes in the 250 class & most of all only a sole privateer in the 125 class representing the largest manufacturer, considering that the new Loncin (whatever that is ???) in 125's has a 2 rider team.
HRC must be concentrating on the MotoGP , where they will get their ass kicked once again.
Will be surprised to see only one Honda rider dominating from the others, only hope is Pedrosa getting fit in time (worst bone break on the right hand).
Maybe the focus this year will be on the MP8000, or the SBK series if you want to see close racing. Any cose racing as always, but more so this season will be in the 125 classes , but alas we never get to see them televised, unless you in spain where thats all they watch as a national pastime :)
Funny thing is folk here get ansy if your a winner in a field of 10, even at NAtionals, in the mp500s you beat 17 other guys and you can be world champ in some ways to me thats not a true reflection of who you beat in the world to be no 1, its just who didnt get a ride and who has the best ride.
the 250 class is a joke 5 brands mostly european, would seem kawasaki, suzuki, yamaha and even honda, dont think there is much scope in this class and have moved to other disciplines, ill be interested to see how the marketing changes on the showroom floor, maybe we in for a dirt bike revival ! heheh :P
then again there is still time for things to come through before round 1, but i think its going to be a bit long shot.
FIM Announcement - MotoGP Entry List 2008
Friday February 8th
Nº Rider Nation Team Machine
1 CASEY STONER AUS DUCATI MARLBORO TEAM DUCATI
2 DANI PEDROSA SPA REPSOL HONDA TEAM HONDA
4 ANDREA DOVIZIOSO ITA JiR SCOT TEAM HONDA
5 COLIN EDWARDS USA YAMAHA TECH 3 YAMAHA
7 CHRIS VERMEULEN AUS RIZLA SUZUKI MotoGP SUZUKI
13 ANTHONY WEST AUS KAWASAKI RACING TEAM KAWASAKI
14 RANDY DE PUNIET FRA LCR HONDA MotoGP HONDA
15 ALEX DE ANGELIS RSM SAN CARLO HONDA GRESINI HONDA
21 JOHN HOPKINS USA KAWASAKI RACING TEAM KAWASAKI
24 TONI ELIAS SPA ALICE TEAM DUCATI
33 MARCO MELANDRI ITA DUCATI MARLBORO TEAM DUCATI
46 VALENTINO ROSSI ITA FIAT YAMAHA TEAM YAMAHA
48 JORGE LORENZO SPA FIAT YAMAHA TEAM YAMAHA
50 SYLVAIN GUINTOLI FRA ALICE TEAM DUCATI
52 JAMES TOSELAND GBR YAMAHA TECH 3 YAMAHA
56 SHINYA NAKANO JPN SAN CARLO HONDA GRESINI HONDA
65 LORIS CAPIROSSI ITA RIZLA SUZUKI MotoGP SUZUKI
69 NICKY HAYDEN USA REPSOL HONDA TEAM HONDA
Nº Rider Nation Team Machine
4 HIROSHI AOYAMA JPN RED BULL KTM 250 KTM
5 HECTOR FAUBEL SPA MAPFRE ASPAR TEAM APRILIA
6 ALEX DEBON SPA LOTUS APRILIA APRLIA
7 RUSSEL GOMEZ SPA BLUSENS APRILIA APRILIA
10 IMRE TOTH HUN TEAM TOTH APRILIA APRILIA
12 THOMAS LUTHI SUI EMMI - CAFFE LATTE APRILIA
14 RATTHAPARK W THA THAI HONDA PTT SAG HONDA
15 ROBERTO LOCATELLI ITA METIS GILERA GILERA
17 KAREL ABRAHAM CZE CARDION AB MOTORACING APRILIA
19 ALVARO BAUTISTA SPA MAPFRE ASPAR TEAM APRILIA
21 HECTOR BARBERA SPA TEAM TOTH APRILIA APRILIA
25 ALEX BALDOLINI ITA MATTEONI RACING APRILIA
32 FABRIZIO LAI ITA CAMPETELLA RACING APRILIA
36 MIKA KALLIO FIN RED BULL KTM 250 KTM
41 ALEIX ESPARGARO SPA LOTUS APRILIA APRLIA
45 DONI TATA PRADITA INA YAMAHA PERTAMINA INDONESIA YAMAHA
50 EUGENE LAVERTY IRL BLUSENS APRILIA APRILIA
52 LUKAS PESEK CZE AUTO KELLY - CP APRILIA
54 MANUEL POGGIALI RSM CAMPETELLA RACING APRILIA
58 MARCO SIMONCELLI ITA METIS GILERA GILERA
60 JULIAN SIMON SPA REPSOL KTM 250cc KTM
72 YUKI TAKAHASHI JPN SCOT RACING TEAM 250cc HONDA
75 MATTIA PASINI ITA POLARIS WORLD APRILIA
Nº Rider Nation Team Machine
5 ALEXIS MASBOU FRA LONCIN RACING LONCIN
6 JOAN OLIVE SPA BELSON DERBI DERBI
7 EFREN VAZQUEZ SPA BLUSENS APRILIA APRILIA
8 LORENZO ZANETTI ITA ISPA KTM ARAN KTM
11 SANDRO CORTESE GER EMMI - CAFFE LATTE APRILIA
12 ESTEVE RABAT SPA REPSOL KTM 125cc KTM
14 GABOR TALMACSI HUN BANCAJA ASPAR TEAM APRILIA
16 JULES CLUZEL FRA LONCIN RACING LONCIN
17 STEFAN BRADL GER GRIZZLY GAS KIEFER RACING APRILIA
18 NICOLAS TEROL SPA JACK & JONES WRB APRILIA
19 ROBERTO LACA ITA MATTEONI RACING APRILIA
21 ROBIN LASSER GER GRIZZLY GAS KIEFER RACING APRILIA
22 PABLO NIETO SPA ONDE 2000 KTM KTM
24 SIMONE CORSI ITA JACK & JONES WRB APRILIA
27 STEFANO BIANCO ITA WTR SAN MARINO TEAM APRILIA
29 ANDREA IANNONE ITA I.C. TEAM APRILIA
30 PERE TUTUSAUS SPA BANCAJA ASPAR TEAM APRILIA
33 SERGIO GADEA SPA BANCAJA ASPAR TEAM APRILIA
34 RANDY KRUMMENACHER SUI RED BULL KTM 125 KTM
35 RAFFAELE DE ROSA ITA ONDE 2000 KTM KTM
38 BRADLEY SMITH GBR POLARIS WORLD APRILIA
44 POL ESPARGARO SPA BELSON DERBI DERBI
45 SCOTT REDDING GBR BLUSENS APRILIA JUNIOR APRILIA
51 STEVIE BONSEY USA DEGRAAF GRAND PRIX APRILIA
56 HUGO VAN DEN BE NED DEGRAAF GRAND PRIX APRILIA
60 MICHAEL RANSEDER AUT I.C. TEAM APRILIA
63 MIKE DI MEGLIO FRA AJO MOTOSPORT DERBI
69 LOUIS ROSSI FRA FFM HONDA GP 125 HONDA
71 TOMOYOSHI KOYAM JPN ISPA KTM ARAN KTM
73 TAKAAKI NAKAGAMI JPN I.C. TEAM APRILIA
77 DOMINIQUE AEGERTER SUI AJO MOTOSPORT DERBI
93 MARC MARQUEZ SPA REPSOL KTM 125cc KTM
95 ROBERT MURESAN ROM GRIZZLY GAS KIEFER RACING APRILIA
99 DANNY WEBB GBR DEGRAAF GRAND PRIX APRILIA
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After seeing some spy pics from inside the Aprillia race workshop no wonder H*onda gave up on the 250 class.After being spanked by Aprilia then KTM they were quick to realise it would need some continued developement to keep up with and/or beat the 120HP @ the wheel what a 250 has now.Even long time Honda man Aberto Puig dumped them and went to KTM.
Casey will be hard to top again, he is psycologicaly tough as they come and won't be phased by much.Be keen to see him crush Rossi again.Night race will be a good spectacle too
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i'll give rossi a year, he is too proud and too rich to play in the pack for another season , i expect him to sign off, or sign out into another sport. Hot Tip would be to another discipline for some Play time.
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Good riddance. Personally, I thought the petulant display at the end of last season where he blackmailed Bridgestone into giving him tyres, with overt assistance from the FIM, was just about the last straw. Then, when long-suffering crew chief Jeremy Burgess suggested that they all work together, the team, Yamaha, Michelin, Rossi, to sort out their problems and regain the ascendancy, Rossi went straight to the press and said "Jerry does not make-a thees decisions...". He's been out-thought and outridden by the awesome Stoner/Ducati/ Bridgestone combo, and is fast running out of answers and excuses. Do you imagine Michelin will be sitting on their hands ? They will be sweating bullets to make him rue the day he dumped on them. My only hope is that his little Michelin-shod garage buddy gets up and gives him a couple of whippings during the season, then he really will take his bat and ball and shoot through. Sure, he was good - great in fact. But all his mind games and bullshit, which so effectively kneecapped Biaggi and Gibernau, don't wash with Stoner, Pedrobot, and the new order, who are used to knuckling it out in the lower-capacity classes. Game Over, Monkey Boy.... ;)
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;D ;D ;D
AMCN has a brilliant tech article on the Desmosedci GP7, I forgot his name but he's the bloke in the wheelchair,he decided that an 800cc wouldn't need the big bang engine.A simulation showed 90deg engine made more top end and used less fuel, that was brilliant.Apparently now all the big 4 have a screamer.
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just a quick side comment - i cannot believe just how exponentially the rampup in the complexity of the bike technology has been in racing in the last three/four years. So many aspects of engine management, gearbox operation, fuel supply, oil supply, cooling, suspension, tyres etc now includes a host of digital and mechanical/hydraulic assists that add up to machines that well, need a raft of specialists working on to function.
Same in works motocross bikes. Christ, you read tests of works US Nationals riders bikes, and there's bugger all left standard.
To me, it means we are coming up fast towards the upper limits of possible improvements to a bike's functioning, if every new tiny 'development' is the result of six months' hard work by a score of boffins in a lab somewhere and associated engineering work. Or at least, the end of privateers doing top ten (twenty? thirty?).
Not disputing mind what Casey brings in terms of pure human talent and guts. He's got both in spades.
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The issue has been noted by Micheal Scott a pit lane scribe of more than 20years,he has said that back in the good old 500cc days it was just a guru and a screwdriver and a box of jets, now it's a bus full of gurus with lap tops,BUT 4T engines lend themselves to electronics so it's hardly surprising.
There is NO privateers in MotoGP and you will need a long line of trucks full of $$$ before you see anything like a result, as opposed to the 500's when the private MUZ team used to pole regularly.
F1 it aint an the rider is still 80% of the equation.
It goes in circles sometime by a breakthrough or by rule changes, more HP,need a better tyre, more speed,need better brakes and suspension, then rider says we need more HP.....
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My freind Paul Young ( 94 -95-96 ? 250 national proddy / 600 supersport) went to europe in 98 ? to ride and got a call up to The Paggents 500 cc team although he could say he got to ride in the 500 that year, the team was basically a privateer, tax loss, the team ran on an oily rag and with a 4 year old YZR500 with lock ups, carby problems and other small failures he would struggle every round to even get the track time on the bike, i think he got to run a few rounds and got noticed but shit bikes and team pennies ment it went no where.
From memory Troy bayliss was still riding here in 96 cause i remeber he was in the same races behind pAUL, not to say he was better, but with the right oppertunities and rides YOU CAN GO PLACES. William strugnell ? what ever happened to him, fastest 125 rider i havent senn, but again him and his dad was beg borrowing and stealing every round in 99 just to make the track, then i think they gave up banging there head against the wall. but again as i said its about the ride now, you get sponsered and can get onto a good team you can win anything, talent can only take you so far, some of those teams havent got a hope, they dont have enough coin and resources to advance anything from the last round, hence most have dropped out now unless its a tax loss or advertising signboard.
I think you could say the glory days really where in the era of riders like sheen etc where someone who could tune a bike and ride it was a true world champion, from then on the tyre wars and the resouces cut a divide between the haves and the have not, id struggle to say anyone truly is a world champion nowa days - its a very grey area.
Even still on the national circuits you see riders in the same team get differant kits. How can you expect to perform when your not even getting the same level of support in a team ? and doenst get access to the factory parts ?
Im a bit over technology, its just marketing now, id have to say its 70% backing and 30% rider skill, you could name a few folks over the years that if you stuck them on a "field bike" there 1 second a lap talent wouldnt have help a bit.
food for thought.
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::)
i see the tall poppy syndrome is alive and well
beats me why people .........and im not on your case freaky.............. can't just enjoy the "moment" for what it is.
Gardner, Sheen, Doohan, Bayliss, Stoner all great riders (what an understatement) that made and still make me smile.
Its that simple
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Grasshopper you have much too learn......... ( sorry always wanted to say that )
i think all riders are great. My point was you need to be more than just great to get the fast line off the track. there are so many good riders that never got a break and never got the kit then fell by the wayside.
Nothing makes me happier than seeing a good kid like casey shine, im just reflecting on the fact his competion is well behind him, and no matter how fast they ride , there team and $$$ is the only thing that will pull a rabbit out of a hat for those poor soldiers. AKA the 250 class who's left and where are the factory teams gone ?