OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Maico => Topic started by: flyingdg on April 12, 2011, 08:56:39 pm
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I'm going to start a new build on a 74 450 if you would like to follow along. Thanks DG
http://1974maicogp450.blogspot.com/
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Hi Doug. Is this the one you are building for me ? ;D
I shall be watching for sure.
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im watchin ;D
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Already looks pretty interesting,well laid out blog with the associated articles.By 450 do you mean 440 or is that the capacity after oversize piston etc?My Maico knowledge isn't what it should be ;)
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Brad, If you come over to race at the Farm it is yours to race! 440 or 450 it is the same. I posted today on the Bike being pulled apart. DG
http://1974maicogp450.blogspot.com/
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Disclaimer: I have no problems whatsoever with the frame Dougs using for his project. I too look forward to following his rebuild adventure.
Now that that's out of the way, back when pre '75 ruled the waves Dougs modified frame would be considered ilegal under our rules (yes I know Dougs in the US) due to it being modified from standard.
Our rulebook states in part "it is not acceptable for frame tube runs to be different from the original even if the frame geometry is apparently the same. This rule was included to deter people from modifying the rear suspension on their bikes as was the fashion in 1974, prior to the year cutoff. I bought a beautifully modified '73 440 Maico that had reputedly been done by Wheelsmith but was told that because it was a '73 model I'd have to revert to the original suspension specs. Not wanting to ruin such a well modded frame, I transferred all of the running gear to a stock '71 square barrel 250 frame and all was well with the officials. I kept the "Wheelsmith" frame and swapped it with Les Richters in a deal for some other stuff a couple of years ago.
I can see the point in enforcing the rule back in the 90's, if it had been allowed, everyone would be running '74 spec rear suspension on their Maicos, no matter what year they were. Today things have changed, it's a lot harder to get pre '75 bikes on the track so I feel that as long as the modification perfectly mimics the original '74 tube run and the suspension is limited to 4".....no problem.
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I posted some updates today. DG
http://1974maicogp450.blogspot.com/
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I posted some photos of the new Maico head and a patern of a Airbox I will be making. DG
http://1974maicogp450.blogspot.com/
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I posted some photos of the airbox and number plates. DG
http://1974maicogp450.blogspot.com/
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I posted some more photos, a rear splash guard, Legends and Heros SLC Supercross, aluminum number plates are done. DG
http://1974maicogp450.blogspot.com/
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I have some new posts on the build. Put the new Maico head on my 450 and road it WOW! bolted all the Aluminum parts on to see how they would fit. DG
http://1974maicogp450.blogspot.com/
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I have some new posts up. I made a 250 4 speed clutch cover and I got some new parts in. DG
http://1974maicogp450.blogspot.com/
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I have some new posts on the Aluminum GP Tank and the Reed Valve Cylinder.
http://1974maicogp450.blogspot.com/
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I posted some photos on my Blog of a frame I got that looks like a early GP. But
the frame number is for a 1973? Please tell me what you think. Thanks DG
http://1974maicogp450.blogspot.com/
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“This post is going to add to the long time debate about the Maico frame, Is it real or just a modified Maico frame with the LTR GP specs.”
He should be wiser than to fall for such an easy entrapment, even the audience knows it’s a trap, they scream out, “No, No, stay away, don’t fall for it”
But like a moth to a flame he naively enters the dark forces of another eternal Maico frame debate.
Maico had at least 2 types of shock mounts for the 74 LTR model.
One style had pressed style shock mounts with the obligatory weight saving holes in them, these mostly seemed to end up in the USA.
The other style, which you have, is typical of what mostly turned up in Aust.
For the most part what you have looks original, the gussets on the swingarm look right, they even have the little recess to allow the shock to clear the gusset.
The outer shock gussets on the frame look right as well, they even have that little tiny corner gusset at the front of the outer mounts.
But the inner shock mounts on the frame don’t look right.
Yours are flat, and they look thicker than normal.
They usually have 2 bends in them and should be around 2mm thick, yours look more like 3mm thick. The outer mounts look right at around 2mm thick.
Also the rear airbox mount. Normally I have seen them as a piece of angle welded into the top corner of the tubes, yours seems to be a piece of flat welded lower down.
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Misc%20bike%20stuff/Maico-frame-original.jpg)
You can just see the end of the angle air box support in front of the shock mount tubes and under the seat rail.
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Misc%20bike%20stuff/MaicoFrame-2.jpg)
My repair kit for the 74 GP frame, shows the bends in the rear gussets
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Maico-frame-repair-kit.jpg)
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GMC, Thanks for the info on the frame. I added your post to the Blog ( I hope that is OK ) I think there could have been three types, the straight inside top bracket, the one bent like yours, and the one with holes. Thanks DG
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GMC, Thanks for the info on the frame. I added your post to the Blog ( I hope that is OK )
Yeah, no probs.
I did hear somewhere once that there were 3 types of shock mounts, but I have only seen 2 types myself.
Didn't know what the 3rd was, wasn't much different then if it was only that inner mount that was different.
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http://www.vintagemaicos.com/74.5info.htm
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Paul, Geoff, Thanks for the info on the GP frame! Geoff I also added a link to your site. Very cool stuff! I really like the GP repair kit. Do you also sell a repair kit for the standard frame?
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Do you also sell a repair kit for the standard frame?
I'm actually about to put one together for someone in the next couple of days.
It will go on my site soon too.
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Since we are talking Maico frames, which would be the best choice to build up a GP racer?
1. 73 frame with GP updates
2. 74.5 GP frame
3. 75 frame (legal as 74.5 replacement here in the US)
I've always wanted to build one for racing and Doug has me inspired with his blog. :)
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If it is legal to use where you are, then the '75 frame is probably the best option because it is a stronger/safer frame. On the '75 frame the two front down tubes wrap around the front of the steering head tube. I think they did this because the '74 frames had a habit of snapping the headstock off when landing off big jumps. Just be aware that the '75 frame is wider where the swingarm fits in, to accomodate the 5 speed motor, so you may have to make spacers for the sprockets to line up when you use a 4 speed motor . Also the '75 frame has tapered roller steering head bearings, so you would have to use the longer '75 stem with the '74 triple clamps (the '75 clamps suit the bigger diameter fork tubes).
Alternatively, GMC does a weld on gusset plate mod that wraps around the steering head on the '74 and earlier frames, which is what Wheelsmith did back in the day .
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I got some more posts up on the Blog. New Aluminum front fork spring cups and a new ignition. DG
http://1974maicogp450.blogspot.com/
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Sorry I'm so slow on this build! But I do have some new posts. DG
http://1974maicogp450.blogspot.com/
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It's a pity there's no words DG as the photo's show that you're meticulously following many of the tried and true Maico tricks of the trade . It's interesting to see that you're using a Magnum style squish head. I've been using that style of head for a long time, even on my square barrel and find that it works so much better. I see you've gone to a lot of trouble polishing and getting the clutch just right but did you consider using a Magnum style clutch?
I reckon that a lot of Maicos clutch problems comes from the welded early clutch basket flexing under load. The billet later basket doesn't flex at all, helping quite a lot in freeing up the action. Since I swapped over I've had zero clutch problems. My next experiment is to try one of those Maicos Only 'Wheelsmith' style coil spring conversions.
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Firko
I'm not much on words, but if you click on the photos there is some. The basket on the Mag. bikes are a lot better than the older one with the ring. But I think the problem is in the flex of the pressure plate or clutch guide plate, with the stiffing ring i make welded on the guide plate the clutch works a lot better. There is a you tube video on there that I put a big clutch in a 450GP and I make a single ring hub and have a ring welded on the clutch guide, I also make a taller push pin. The clutch worked great. The video sucked but the clutch worked. DG
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Do you also sell a repair kit for the standard frame?
I'm actually about to put one together for someone in the next couple of days.
It will go on my site soon too.
What type of steel are you using Geoff? ;D
Come on, you knew somebody would ask!!!!
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I have a question about the baskets flexing. I have heard that before about the older baskets with the ring around it flexing, I just can’t see how it can flex. All the energy is in the center hub, guide plate and terminal plate. The basket is only holding the plates in line. The thing I see is the older basket is softer and groves easier than the new and harder Mag. Basket with out the ring. So my question is how can it flex? I ask this with respect, I just can’t see it. Thanks DG
Here is a link to the you tube video I did and what I think is going on in the clutch. Sorry about the video it was my first time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ppk-2CZOsI4&feature=relmfu
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Do you also sell a repair kit for the standard frame?
I'm actually about to put one together for someone in the next couple of days.
It will go on my site soon too.
What type of steel are you using Geoff? ;D
Come on, you knew somebody would ask!!!!
Carbon 0.30 %
Manganese 0.90 %
Silicon 0.30 %
Sulphur 0.030 %
Phosphorus 0.035 %
Chromium 1.10 %
Molybdenum 0.25 %
Iron - Balance
Shit. I still haven't put those bits on my site yet
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There is some more updates on the GP 440 build. DG
http://1974maicogp450.blogspot.com/
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I have some new posts. DG
http://1974maicogp450.blogspot.com/
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This has got to be the longest build EVER but I'm starting to put it together now.
http://1974maicogp450.blogspot.com/
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I just fired up my bike for the first time this morning (third kick) I rode it down the icy driveway to the rode and went through the gears. The clutch works great and the transmission shifted good, the motor was crisp sounds great. I had one problem with the gas tank I made, there is a pin hole leak in a weld by the petcockkkkk. I hope my next bike doesn't take this long, I don't think I would live to see it done. Now what bike do I build next? I’ve been collecting parts for a RM500 in a 84 RM250 frame with a center port ex. I never used the reed cylinder that I had mad for this bike, so I was thinking about building a new bottom end to put it on. I have the 1974 cases that I cut the back of the case and welded it up to run a AW clutch cover , I also cleaned up the top and the chain side to look like a AW, shortened the shift linkage to work with the clutch cover. The cylinder would look good on that bottom end. I have a 78 maico 250 that I would like to put some 42mm forks on and run 81 yellow plastic. What about a 74 GP 250? I wish I had more time and Money. Back to the bike I just finished, I don’t think I used a part off of the 250 maico that I started with. I had to find, make or buy every part on the bike but I’m very happy with the out come. Thanks DG
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I just posted some photos of the GP on the Blog and I noticed that I could see myself in the polished side covers, I’m just glad I wasn’t in a dress taking the photos of the maico like Brad was taking photos of his maico tank.
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bike looks great doug / how much ? ;D
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Well done, that bike that Brad has is awesome too.
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Great work Doug, the build might have taken a long time but it's certainly worth the wait. You've certainly raised the bar for us other humble Maico builders. You've convinced me on the head mods and both my oval and square heads will be off to the USA next week. I'm actually looking forward to my 360 pre 65 build and having enjoyed your blog from the beginning, I'm seriously thinking of creating a similar blog covering its construction.
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Pretty awesome fabrication work for someone that is self taught.
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I posted some photos of the polished clutch and trans on the blog. DG
http://1974maicogp450.blogspot.com/
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I'm going to start a new build on a 74 450 if you would like to follow along. Thanks DG
http://1974maicogp450.blogspot.com/
Old thread but is this blog still available? When I try to look it says I need to be invited?? Thanks, Ralph
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Hi Ralph, it was Doug who did this build and Blog.
He is the forum member i the post above you, "flyingdg" so click on his name at the side there and the next page will give you an option to send him a message.
Just give him your email address and ask him if he would be kind enough to invite you to view his blog.
Good luck mate.
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Cheers Mick