OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: elsie 125 on February 06, 2008, 07:53:54 am
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What do you reckon the chances of getting a group of juniors to ride Dad s old 125 vmx bikes to complete a class in the aussie classic dirt track nats in canberra this year, A junior 125 national championship class, how good would that be??
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This is a wind up right ;)
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I reckon the chances are none and zero. With respect Elsie, it's a crap idea. The juniors have enough opportunities to race their own bikes without intruding into our domain.
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99% of young riders I know wouldn't be seen dead on a vintage bike! can't say I blame them, I was exactly the same 30 years ago ;)
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Man you should see the debate about this in the US. In AHRMA, a 16 yr old can race. Until then, they can ride trails( what I want to get my daughter into). My daughter wants nothing to do with modern mx( though she has crushes on Reed and Stewart ;D)-and wants to wait to race a Maico, "like Dad".
Anyhoo, the amount of bullshit with youth modern mx is sickening, I know=as So. Cal. and Texas are the worst mini parents there are. Many in VMX insist that we have no future without the kids racing now. Problem is, even if they raced until 19 or so in VMX, they go to college and into business and thier own family and all. Will they come back? Sure, but that is a lapse. ...and here in the US, we have a much smaller percentage of people born in 65-72 than just older or just younger.
In the US, we need to get ALL the people who are 44-55 now, and focus on getting the 24-30 yr olds involved next. As for the 31-43 yr olds, well not enough to matter-the numbers are too low. It's quite a challenge, but I think we can continue to get new riders/racers-and then many begin building bikes older then they are once they get in.
I understand the near vacant "13th generation"(65-72) is a non issue in Oz, so that make sit a bit more straightforward to recruit new racers.
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Hey Guys, I don't mean to hijack the thread but I'm intrigued by James' comment re the minimal US births during '65 to '72.
I was not aware.That's the 'Vietnam era'; is that in some way the basis for the strange stats? ???
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So do we keep the gay's out 2 ??? lord vadar ???
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Wasn't that the era of free love? Oh wait.. no... they invented the birth control pill around then.
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I guess that means "No you can't......." sigh
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just a thought, few young guys in our club reckon the old bikes are pretty cool, keep the replies coming
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I know we've banged around the whole age group at the Nats thing a few times, but I don't know we've ever pushed a Juniors class on vintage bikes. HEAVEN used to have a Juniors class, but rarely more than a handful of riders.
I wouldn't be thinking this is a class to 'keep the future of VMX alive', more a bit of fun and a sort of cross the gap kind of thing. I didn't know there were many young guys in ACT who thought the old bikes are cool, but I will say we usually get a bit of interest when we race at a club day. And there are a few young blokes riding this year in the vintage I believe.
I reckon it'd be OK, add a bit of colour and broaden the appeal if it did actually happen. As to the domain intrusion, well, we keep sticking our old bikes into modern meetings like our club days and Amcross and so on, so why not?
Are we expecting a few of these kids on Sunday, Pat?
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My own kids are no longer juniors and don't ride any way,
I don't think elsies kids are old enough to ride,
Last years vintage nats finished early,
so what would be wrong with adding a Juniors Vintage dirt track, It does not have to be the feature race,
there are a number of juniors that ride at Nepean not on vintage bikes but there dads do,
I support the Idea, and if any juniors want a ride I will make my cr 125 available to them.
I suspect that the Juniors Mothers/ Fathers will be the ones helping to run the event.
Cheers
Noel,
PS they are having Junior modern support races at the Jack Hogg and the Parents Have to supply a marshal 8)
The more people that are there the bigger the exposure
don't worry about your kids what are you grand children doing
After all it is on Fathers day
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Hi All,
We run junior vmx classes down (pre 85) here in Tassie with mixed success we normally only get 5 or 6 in the 125 class and about 4 or 5 in the 80cc class. We have been running it on club days for years as we also have modern bike classes as well. I would say definatly not in National events.
Cheers
Fatboy
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I have no real opinion, but I'm a bit confused as to exactly how the attitude shown in this thread fits with the statements of only a few weeks ago about how VMX (and therefore presumably VDT) 'is about old bikes not old riders'.
Nor do I understand why it's OK to stick a younger guy on a VMX bike and have him race for a senior title, but its not OK to stick an even younger guy on a VMX bike and have him race for a junior title?
If they're on old bikes then what's the issue?
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thankyou for the replies everyone, thanks also to noel for the offer to let a young guy ride your bike, I, no, off 3, jnrs who would love the oppurtunity to race your bike, I myself have 3 125s, 2 of which I will be competeing on and if there are young guys who want to ride mine, in the juniors, they are most welcome.
thanks also for all the positive threads received, as to the not so positives, I have been involved in dirt track since 1989 in ACT, with my oldest son, now 26 and growing up racing around various dirt tracks from broadford, shepparton, albury all
the way up the east coast to brisbane, winning numerous club and state championships with top 3 placings in a few australian championships, to going of doing his trade, while getting around on his Ls and Ps on his WR400, buying his GSXR 1000, then to his hyubusa, settling down with the girl and paying of there house to now ripping up the dirt track again on his CRF450, and cant wait
till we run our 1st club day again,
to my second son who is now 17 racing around various tracks thoroughly enjoying himself,from an early age, untill our track was closed due to an environment order, to moving on to work and getting the odd ride in recent months on his CRF250 after our order was lifted, back out at the dirt track when dad isnt at work, doing working bees, or working on the reopening of the ACTMCC dirt track,
then there is my daughter who is now 6 and is so anxious and exited about her first race next saturday week at round 1 MX on her QR 50,
then myself, cant wait for sunday, take new m'ships, do sign on, make sure the water truck is full, then get the chance 2 fill up the elsinore, and go out and enjoy myself in the few sessions that are left, before packing up, locking up and coming home for dinner,unloading and maybe more club stuff, so our kids, our members, our mates, ourselves, soon for me, our grand kids have got a safe controlled track and environment to go to ride and enjoy our motorcycles.
2004-2005 dirt track meetings at canberra were getting better and better, numbers were growing, the classic DT classes were growing and growing, until some one decided to save money on dumping and we were unfortunate to have our DT complex closed under an environment order, which took 2years of working with government departments, red tape etc to have our complex reopened, to now prepairing for our first club day again in over 30months,
The ACTMCC dirt track committee of 4 volunteers finally had our order lifted, in the meantime bikes were put away unridden for months and interest dwindled away as we had no track.
once we had the order lifted, we made a decision to run a prestigious event, applying for the event, being successful in hosting the event, to now committed to the event and its success, to make it competitive, enjoyable,fun and thrilling to the committee, the riders and the spectators,and their families, and to also pick our sport back up to the competitors, families, club mates, after losing 28 months with out a local dirt track to ride on, to encourage interest and participation within the dirt track discipline,
We are dedicated to making the 2008 D T nats a success, with also running a format that we run 2 practice rounds of 5 laps, with 5 to 7 rounds off racing, or 4 heats and 3 finals, where needed, instead of driving 4 hours to a meeting, doing 3 sprint laps of practice, and 4 rounds of racing of 3 laps at 35 seconds a lap, packing up, 4 hours home, total cost for an 18 hour day 350+ bucks with entries, fuel, food, all for a total of 7 minutes on the bike!!!!!!!
thanks for the google maps of the track noel and Graeme, thanks for the 2005 kings and queens artical in the other threads, keep it coming
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and old school, this enthusiastic new punter, has been around the sport for a while, he is just looking for ideas on improving and increasing the numbers in our sport, in both modern, and classic,
my boys are now 2 old to ride dads bikes in the juniors, although they can go out and ride them anytime,
IF they chose to ride them at the nats, the 16 to 29 year pre 75 age class could be interesting
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Good on ya elsie. You sound like a salt of the earth sorta bloke. Quite a resume'. I thought it was about the bikes and not the age as well. Well spotted Nathan......
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I disagree. I would be more than interested in competing in Pre 65 or earlier. These bikes are wayyy before my time but since being exposed to them through VMX (both the printed form and physically), I'd be more than prepared to cough up for a nice old Brit four banger and experience what competing against other such beasts would be like. I know there's other guys out there the same so I don't think the experiences of a few should be written into stone as what should and shouldn't happen.
Now this is just an opininion. You don't have to get all hot under the collar that someone that you're not that keen on expresses it.
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all good old school, I can handle criticism, seen a lot of that in junior dirt track over the years,and a lot of kids come and go,because dad didnt make it fun for them, it became a chore, what we do need is constructive criticism,
because a few tried nearly 20 years ago and it didnt work, doesnt mean its not worth trying again,
And the junior 125s being a novelty at the canberra nats, your probably dead right, and what a fun novelty it would be!!!!
And then again, it could turn into something more, if the little guys were given an oppurtunity,
Its easy 2 sit back and say it wont work, cause we tried 20 years ago!!!
Yes Graeme, there will be some young guys out at the track on sunday, keep your eye on a little fella on a 92 cr80 #83
And thanks for your input and support 414, hope to see you in canberra!!
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I support the idea of a junior 125 class to be run on club days but I don't however support any moves for it to be included in the Australian Classic Dirt Track Championships.
To me the Aussie Championships is a serious event, a holy grail for our movement. To give Championship status to a class for part time kid racers riding Dads bike is a slap in the face to the serious vintage racer who builds and pays for his own bike and travels at his own expense to distant meetings throughout the year to support the sport. That bloke usually loves the bikes he has nurtured with his own hands and has a strong afinity with the sports history and the philosophy behind what VMX is about.
With due respect to the young blokes who would theoretically be riding in the Junior class, with some exceptions, they couldn't give a toss for old bikes. Like Oldschool wrote, they'd rather be riding a modern bike with their mates than riding Dads bike against Dads mates sons. If Dad sold the bike they really wouldn't give a toss. These kids really aren't deserving of a Vintage Championship class because they are only Vintage racers by default. On a club day?....I say go for it!
In reply to 414s point that he'd like to race pre 65 and that those bikes were around way before his time. I am actually building a pre 65 bike myself and those bikes were also before even my time. The difference is that you and I have been around the sport for a while. We've had our modern bike "careers" and now we look back on those years in fondness and compete in vintage in those classes that we most directly relate to. We've also had time to mature in our outlook and absorb earlier ideas and concepts, hence both of our interests in pre 65.
The kids Elsie proposes haven't had their modern career yet so it is a big ask for them to be interested in bikes that were built twenty years before they were born.
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I must admit I didn't notice that the proposal was for a junior championship class. I'd agree with a support class, but not a championship class. But that brings up my particular hobbyhorse. I am mostly pretty laid back about vintage MX and couldn't be stuffed getting all that worked up about riveted sprockets or remote reservoir shocks etc.
BUT...
I don't agree with younger riders racing in vintage championships. VMX is about the bikes and the times, and to me it's more a feel good thing. BUT, if we are going to have a National Championship, then it should be for the older riders, men in their 40s or older. If it weren't for the guys in that age bracket, there wouldn't BE any vintage MX full stop. No 22 year old is going to start a movement to bring back old boat anchors.
I am not sure how old the guys who won the championships at Wagga were, but I got the impression there were a few of the local young guns riding and doing OK. That's just not what it's about in my opinion. I don't want to see a 22 year old win an Aussie Vintage MX Championship.
I have absolutely no problem with them riding at say a VIPER club day, or a local ACT club day, or Classic Dirt, but not an Aussie Championship.
So, my two bobs worth is this.
Run a Junior support class with trophies or whatever and make it a novelty thing. Who cares if it doesn't start a huge influx of kids to VMX? Also, please please can we have age classes for the real vintage classes.
BTW: This is my opinion only and I *know* you'll have something to say Nathan. But I just don't think it's fair to have a 55 year old facing up to a 25 year old. Especially if the 25 year old is a gun...
Must go check out the MOMs too cos I have no idea what it says about national championship classes.
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:D
I'm almost speechless... Almost. ;D
I've typed out several replies to this thread, each marginally less confrontational than its predecessor, but then it came to me:
We all love racing/riding old bikes for our own reasons. How dare we deny that opportunity to anyone who doesn't fit our perception of a vintage racer?
Make the junior VDT class a trophy only event if you're worried about there being a value-less Junior VDT championship, but to turn away competitor support for a junior VDT race would be unforgivable.
What's that saying about the most sure-fire way to ensure a 'club' fails is if it only accepts people just like us?
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Oh come on Nathan, you could never be speechless!
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I think history is a school subject, ::)
why should we deny any interested juniors experience in History of this sport ,hands on,
even if it is just to Humour their dad or Grandfather, they may not care about it six months after the event But they just Might 20/ 30 years later
If their modern career only includes modern bikes that will be their history.
If it really upsets people I don't think all races held at a champion ship venue on a championship date need to be champion ship races,
and Yes as many do I support age classes ;D ;D ;D what is the cut of for age classes
serious as it may be
do you really think a championship medal is the only reason people turn up,
if only one rider turns up who is there to beat,
surely you are not suggesting that only riders with a chance of winning " the Holy Grail" should enter
How many of the Winners at the Historic Road race championships owned the bike they won on?
Noel
Yes this is a Scotch fueled reply
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I am all for some support races, and am definately for the aged racing also, nothing worse than a 52 yr old racing a 26 yr old, no way!!!!!
would have to check the rule book, but I think it is only 8 entries 2 constitute a class??
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Firko. I said wayyy before my time, not way. ;D
I'm just pretty sure that when I was 16, if I'd been given the chance to ride something 25 odd years old in a race against other bikes the same age, I would have jumped at it!
Now I know I wouldn't have made a career of it and would have most likely have walked away from it after a couple of goes, but it would have been a hoot and may have gotten me into VMX 10 years earlier than I did.
Just let 'em have a run. If there isn't enough for a class, run 'em in another one without points. Life's too short...
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Fine, no problems letting them have a run. My objection is to letting them have their own championship.
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I personally don't care either way, what I do object to is at a Vintage meeting Juniors getting more racing than the Vintage guys, especially on modern bikes. If there is time, yeah, who cares, but don't run them to the detriment of what we're supposed to be doing.
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Will MA allow any moderns to be a support race at the Australian Titles?
They don't allow it for Historic Road Racing.
PCRA asked MA to allow New Era support classes (Pre 90 and Pre 96) at the 2007 Australian Historic Road Racing Titles but approval was not given.
Historics only at Historic Titles.
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Allowing moderns at the Classic title event , would pretty much mean the beginning of the end for VMX. ::)
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G'day elsie i just finished prepping my daughters cr80 for flattrack practice on the weekend and i started on my 14 year old son's pre 85 bike a YZ125K , so if you get the class in as a support race i would have at least 2 starters . My kids and i have only just discovered flattrack at broadford and it's good that i can involve all the family in it . So hopefully we will meet you later on in the year at the titles
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Nathan, By the sounds of things you have been around the traps. it also sounds like most of the guys on this forum know you
personally. Alas i am not in that boat. How old are you.
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goodone yzhilly, will run juniors as a support, and be looking forward to meeting you in canberra in september, if not before at CD5
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Nathan, By the sounds of things you have been around the traps. it also sounds like most of the guys on this forum know you
personally. Alas i am not in that boat. How old are you.
Let's just say that I'm not one of the blokes who can remember the pre-75 bikes when they were new, but I'm also many years past being able to personally benefit from a Junior class...
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well he's gonna be a dad soon, so despite missing a few years of heritage, he gets a guersney for being willing to double the rate he ages the day baby hits the ground (so to speak).
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well he's gonna be a dad soon,
That it Nathan, sell off all the toys, See you in about 18 years :D Congrats mate