OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Suzuki => Topic started by: farmer58za on February 06, 2011, 08:32:09 am
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Hi All
Has anyone here ever hopped up a Suzuki TS 250 eg. larger carb, ports etc.?
I'd appreciate any info before I reach for the Dremel....
Thanks
David
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What model?
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I think most people in the past simply opted to run the TM parts, cylinder, head, carb, maybe 1st and 2nd ratio's and dinner plate sized rear sprocket. The TM pipe doesn't work unless you modify the rear brake lever ala TM style. Kit pipes are rare and exit to the left instead of right. I've 3 or 4 TS250's here and keen to get into the project when I get time so interested to hear what you decide if you do go ahead Farmer ;) I was going to fit TM stuff cause I'm lazy and don't have super high expectations :D
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Might be worth talking to Lozza. I seem to recall him saying he thinks its better to port the TS barrell cos of unbridged exhaust port. I'm fairly sure you'll find TM250 ratios are actually the same as TS, except for 75TM-M model, which are all diff except for one gear (3rd IIRC)
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How rare are those TS250 kit pipes? I've got one that appears never to have been used that I was going to chop up to make a downpipe for my DT1 flat tracker project.
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Cheaper in the long run to put a F Circle pipe on and a TM Barrel.
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There is a difference between the later reed valve 250 and the earlier TM/TS gearbox. From memory its 1st gear and or second gear. I was going to change the first gear in mine and put the motocross 1st gear in it.
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On my ts250 i ported-bored out the carb i think 1.5mm,re jet (you didnt just buy a bigger carb in the day) and upd compression a little.Kept up with tm on straight
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There is a difference between the later reed valve 250 and the earlier TM/TS gearbox. From memory its 1st gear and or second gear. I was going to change the first gear in mine and put the motocross 1st gear in it.
Yes, TS250C & later had much lower 1st gear than earlier TS/TM
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How rare are those TS250 kit pipes? I've got one that appears never to have been used that I was going to chop up to make a downpipe for my DT1 flat tracker project.
The Doc would know for sure Firko but I think the TS250 kit pipes are quite rare.
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John I don't think the TS cylinder fits on the TM cases, but the single exhaust port is a better start, so long as the cylinder has 4 transfers should be a flyer
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TM and TS non reed cyls will interchange (exeption being 1976 TS 250A cyl , different transfers and electrofusion bore ex factory :o )
TS only has 2 transfers small intake port and non bridged smaller exhaust port.
TM 4 transfers big intake port and big bridged exhaust port.
I have a NOS TM 250 Cylinder , piston and rings for sale (no gudgeon or clips) and a used TM 250 head $Au 300.00 plus postage ;)
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John I don't think the TS cylinder fits on the TM cases
Visa versa, I've got a TM250 top end on TS cases on my $100 project bike TM/TS 250. It bolted right on, I didn't even need a hammer.
The Doc would know for sure Firko but I think the TS250 kit pipes are quite rare.
The Doc knows everything about yellow bikes ;D.....I've found a TM250 Circle F downpipe in the shed that'll do for the tracker so I won't need to chop that TS kit pipe now ;).
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Sorry guys
It's a 1972 model. I do have a 2nd hand TM top end, but it's already bored out to + 1.25mm. I may not get a +1.5 oversize so I'll have to re-sleeve. The (homemade) pipe also won't fit the TM barrel. Gear ratios are the same as the TM as I recall.
I'm a bit tight for time (race in 2 weeks) so I was looking to pep up the TS ports, stick on the 32mm TM carb and use it as an intermediate step.
Regards
David
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TS only has 2 transfers small intake port and non bridged smaller exhaust port.
That's why it's a better starting point.
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Yep Mark, I've only ever seen one other TS250 kit pipe for sale locally and I swooped. It was rooted, crushed and flattened but I spent a couple of days cutting it open and beating it back into shape. The guy who had the TS250 wreck for sale was hesitant to accept my offer of $50 and a good stock pipe as he thought I would be disappointed. I have b4 and after pics and I even amazed myself with my pathetic panel beating skills :) If you are thinking of selling they seem to go for around $200-$250 at an average and I am as usual interested in any of the TS model R/T kit items ;)
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TM and TS non reed cyls will interchange (exeption being 1976 TS 250A cyl , different transfers and electrofusion bore ex factory :o )
TS only has 2 transfers small intake port and non bridged smaller exhaust port.
TM 4 transfers big intake port and big bridged exhaust port.
I have a NOS TM 250 Cylinder , piston and rings for sale (no gudgeon or clips) and a used TM 250 head $Au 300.00 plus postage ;)
Bill, are you sure the TM has 4 transfers? I always tho't they only had 2 like the TS barrels, but I'm no suzuki guru.
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2 transfers with bridged inlet and bridged exhaust on the TM's.
2 transfers with bridged inlet and unbridged exhaust on both TS and RL250.
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Will post a pic of TM 250 cylinder :)
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/TM250cyl008.jpg)
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/TM250cyl007.jpg)
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/TM250cyl006.jpg)
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/TM250cyl005.jpg)
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/TM250cyl002.jpg)
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/TM250cyl004.jpg)
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/TM250cyl001.jpg)
TS 250 Cylinder
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/TS250cyl2002.jpg)
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/TS250cyl2001.jpg)
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/TS250cyl001.jpg)
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/TS250cyl002.jpg)
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/TS250cyl004.jpg)
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Thanks Bill,
Looks like the 74/75 TM barrell. Earlier TM barrels were 2 tranfers I believe.
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Well thar ya go :) was thinking Bill's must be from the later model as all my TM barrels are of the type mentioned above. Bridged exhaust, bridged inlet and 2 transfers ;)
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Bugger and there was me thinking i had somthing special ;D
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Does the base of the TM and TS cylinders match Bill? The angle out at the flange looks different?
The TS cylinder could be made into something very good.
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they all interchange Loz, the exhaust exit angle the only difference.
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Its not an RH barrell is it Bill? ;)
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Sorry guys
It's a 1972 model. I do have a 2nd hand TM top end, but it's already bored out to + 1.25mm. I may not get a +1.5 oversize so I'll have to re-sleeve. The (homemade) pipe also won't fit the TM barrel. Gear ratios are the same as the TM as I recall.
I'm a bit tight for time (race in 2 weeks) so I was looking to pep up the TS ports, stick on the 32mm TM carb and use it as an intermediate step.
Regards
David
David, I wouldn't be resleeving a +1.25 barrell. Wiseco make +1.5 & +2.0 pistons. I'd wait till I could find one of those. It'd be much cheaper.
If you want porting specs from back in the day, I have several mag articles. Typically they said raise the exh a couple of mms, lower the inlet (or cut the skirt) similarly, ramp the top of the piston adjacent to the transfers 1.5mm, widen the exh 7mm (but I wouldn't go wider than 49mm - 70% of bore). In general, aim for circa 180deg exh durat'n & circa 165 degs inlet. Use TM head & carb. Thats still pretty mild but should be a good starting point. I'm sure Lozza can do a lot better.
FWIW factory specs are as follows (from top of barrel):
Exh TS 39mm Kit Cyl 37mm
Tr TS 53 Kit Cyl 52
In TS 99 Kit cyl 103
The responsibilty for changes is all yours! I have no experience w TM/TS250 mods
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Its not an RH barrell is it Bill? ;)
;D ;D ;D ;D RH in this case right horrible :D i want it gone ;)