OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => British (BSA, Greeves, Triumph etc) => Topic started by: FAT-TOY on January 25, 2011, 10:47:12 pm
-
Just picked up my like new 1963 Cotton Cougar 250cc. This is one cool looking bike, I have always liked the look of them and I think this is as tidy as you would ever find and at a reasonable price.
(http://[IMG]http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac276/zane255/Cotton%20Cougar%201963/CottonCougar250cc1963004.jpg)[/img]
-
Photo no can see Fat-toy. I've got the remnants of a Cougar
-
I have owned a Cougar and a cobra, zane bike is a Cobra, the cougar had no rear loop continueing as part of the frame.
-
Hey Fat Toy, you had too many img codes either side of your link -all good .
Beautiful piece of British.Thats A HOLYGRAIL :-*
Where are you in OZ ?
Just picked up my like new 1963 Cotton Cougar 250cc. This is one cool looking bike, I have always liked the look of them and I think this is as tidy as you would ever find and at a reasonable price.
(http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac276/zane255/Cotton%20Cougar%201963/CottonCougar250cc1963004.jpg)
Here is a 65er in flight --bit of inspiration :P
cheers A
quote;When sold new, Cotton offered the option of either Armstrong leading-link forks or Norton Roadholder telescopics as front suspension units. Betor forks are fitted until a suitable set of Roadholders can be located. All components for this model are readily available from AJS Motorcycles Ltd. in England. They also can provide a complete, ready-to-race Cobra replica if desired.
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/dan2-cotton_cobra-2.jpg)
-
Beautiful FAT-TOY..That's one of the nicest Cottons I've seen.
I have owned a Cougar and a cobra, zane bike is a Cobra, the cougar had no rear loop continueing as part of the frame.
With respect Dave, I think you've got it arse about. I've always been told my Cotton frame is a Cobra and as you can see in the photo below, it doesn't have a rear loop and it doesn't look like it ever did have one.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/cotton%20007.jpg)
-
Mark what you have is a cougar frame, AJS motorcycles sold new cobras frames and they are the same frame as Zanes Bike. You have it arse about.
-
What engine is it Fat-Toy is it a 37a with alloy barrel&head ?
The bottom end is like my 37 but barrel is different !!
cheers S&A WA
-
Mark what you have is a cougar frame, AJS motorcycles sold new cobras frames and they are the same frame as Zanes Bike. You have it arse about.
I bow to your knowledge Dave but I can't find a Cougar without the rear loop anywhere?
It's the same with photos of Cotton Cobras,they seem to have the same frame loop. If so, what do I have?
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/cottoncougar.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/Cotton%7ECougar%24282%2429.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/cotton%20article.jpg)
-
I think its time to ring Fluff brown, Mark l was told when l had my two bike that the cobra had the frame loop and the other was cougar, that came from Nicholas brown and Fluff at the time. its really does`nt matter what frame you have its still a cotton, my brother dennis raced a cotton in the sixties and it went ok, but the they are not a world beater. In saying that they are a true vintage race bike.
-
mark my brother race one in unzud
-
I would like to see a sale broucher of the cotton cobra.
-
http://motocrossactionmag.com/Main/News/CLASSIC-MOTOCROSS-IRON-COTTON-COBRA-250--4736.aspx (http://motocrossactionmag.com/Main/News/CLASSIC-MOTOCROSS-IRON-COTTON-COBRA-250--4736.aspx)
-
ciao VMX
barrel&head is a Parkinson conversion
Graziano
-
Well their you go, good one mark, l beleive the cottons that where imported to Australia where the Cobra, l am going by the history growing up with my brothers racing them in the sixties talking with fluff brown, when l was building up my two cotton bikes. the name changes from cougar to cobra depending on which port and country. I also had a villiers engine which came out of a Francis Barnett 250 scrambler it also had a Parkinson Barrel.
-
Noice!
-
I've been corresponding with Graziano (223) over the technicalities of fitting my 500 Triumph engine to my Cotton frame. He races the ex Arthur Lampkin Cotton Triumph and he was kind enough to send me close up photos and dimensions of his own bike. He's a good guy who loves British bikes....unusual for an Italian.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/cot8.JPG)
-
ciao VMX
barrel&head is a Parkinson conversion
Graziano
WOW !! How rare would that be !!
Is this the same 223 ? Quote:
The name Parkinson has meant 'The Motorcycle Shop' to people in the Colchester area for more than 50 years.
Ron Parkinson started the original business at Marks Tey selling and servicing motorcycles in 1954 and it has been at the forefront of motorcycle technology ever since. This modern business, now based at the Cowdray Centre in the heart of Colchester, is lead by Ron's son Jim Parkinson and a team of dedicated and enthusiastic people with the knowledge and expertise you would expect, from a leader in their field.
As the authorised dealer for Ducati and Suzuki our modern showroom offers you the opportunity to compare the model ranges from both these prestige manufacturers with professional advice on hand should you require it. With a large stock of quality used machines available to view as well a visit to us at The Cowdray Centre comes highly recommended. With the Parkinson pedigree you know that you will receive quality products and service supported by people that care.
cheers A
-
Alison my Cotton is fitted with a Mk 36A motor with Parkinson barrel etc replacing the original cast iron barrel and head. Apparently this is sort after conversion and hard to find these days.
I dont know if this was something done in the Cotton Factory on this model or by a previous owner to improve performance. It certainly looks better than the Villiers setup and i'm told does help it perform better, i'm still pretty green as far as my knowledge of Cottons goes but I will pick it up as I go, I just know that it is great looking bike and a credit to its builder.
Zane
-
I've been corresponding with Graziano (223) over the technicalities of fitting my 500 Triumph engine to my Cotton frame.
Graziano got back to me this morning with the frame tube diameters of his Triumph Cotton. Unfortunately for me the frame to take the Triumph engine has larger diameter tubing. the downtube on the Trumpy version measures out at 31.8mm dia. while my Cobra/Cougar frame has 24.6mm downtubes. The design itself is the same but they've obviously made 'em a bit sturdier to handle double the horsepower.
It looks like the Sprite frame is back on top of the list if I decide to go pre 65, the Hindall if I pick pre '70. ;)
I just know that it is great looking bike and a credit to its builder.
It really is a well restored bike Zane. What's it's history, where did it come from? In November I came very close to buying a Cotton fitted with an AJS Stormer sourced Starmaker engine but another bike closer to my interest area came up so I reluctantly let it go. It was a nice looking but obviously modded race bike as opposed to your concourse gem.
-
Alison my Cotton is fitted with a Mk 36A motor with Parkinson barrel etc replacing the original cast iron barrel and head. Apparently this is sort after conversion and hard to find these days.
I dont know if this was something done in the Cotton Factory on this model or by a previous owner to improve performance. It certainly looks better than the Villiers setup and i'm told does help it perform better, i'm still pretty green as far as my knowledge of Cottons goes but I will pick it up as I go, I just know that it is great looking bike and a credit to its builder.
Zane
Amazing what that Villiers factory and the pommies got up too :o
Am I right in saying it has a brother in Alpha crankcases ?? http://www.lortim.demon.co.uk/vsih/crankcas.htm
Over the years many aftermarket manufacturers have produced crankcases, in an effort to increase rigidity, and therefore reliability over the original Villiers item, the most notable of these coming from Alpha or Parkinson (Fig 4). Both cases featured heavy external finning and larger main bearings in beefed up housings, the Parkinson cases using a Villiers or Alpha replacement crank. The Alpha variety ran the inner main bearings directly on to the crank drive shafts, and when used with its own special crank it was the strongest bottom end available, but alas no longer produced. They are available from auto-jumbles but corrosion has usually damaged the crankshaft under the rollers and are no longer useable. See the section on crankshafts for renovating these cranks.
-
Its all about dispersing the heat away from the main bearings, later the put finning on the crankcases to help that theory.
-
no longer produced. They are available from auto-jumbles but corrosion has usually damaged the crankshaft under the rollers and are no longer useable. See the section on crankshafts for renovating these cranks.
Alison I had no trouble finding parts for the Alpha bottom end on my Dot (bearings, seals ect) from a company in the US (Frank Conoly Greeves) the Greeves company also used Alpha in some of their models and Frank has stock of just about everything Greeves and may even have complete bottom ends available.
And they are a good supplier reasonable prices, new and used stock and fast delivery.
Zane
-
zane, doesn`t race bikes anymore, he would need to have a reliable person on board her that would take good care of the cotton and look after her, if that person wasn`t farmilar with the habits of the villiers engine he could blow an engine or damage a gearbox.