OzVMX Forum

Clubroom => Bike Talk => Topic started by: SAABCOMBI on January 25, 2011, 08:13:38 pm

Title: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: SAABCOMBI on January 25, 2011, 08:13:38 pm: Does any person know and someone should have some idea of the where about of Gary O`Brien Montesa VR 360., I have not seen it for years, any idea This is gary on the bike.

(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad275/albrid3/006.jpg)
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: Slakewell on January 25, 2011, 10:11:11 pm: Is that the one with the old pre 70 360 engine in the VR frame?
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: SAABCOMBI on January 25, 2011, 10:17:22 pm: That`s right.
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: bazza on January 26, 2011, 07:13:10 pm: why the name change dave? are sweedish bikes the new "keepers"?
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: SAABCOMBI on January 26, 2011, 07:22:41 pm: No reason for the name change, l have 125 cr husky 74 model, husky 125 82 model which will be for sale, 76 model 125 husky model and that will be my vinduro bike and l would like to buy a 250 67 model husky like l had or a 400 viking or cross round case model husky ,and if that doesn`t happen, well l will look at a different make and model but it must be pre 70 era, l drive a saab so it good to keep it in the swedish family.
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: bazza on January 26, 2011, 08:23:07 pm: liked my mag 250 in the day
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: SAABCOMBI on January 26, 2011, 09:11:25 pm: I raced a husqvarna Mag 250 in 74, l bought it new off Al patterson Motorcycles Springvale road, nice bike, but l would like to know who got the Gary O`Brien Vr 360.
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: Slakewell on January 29, 2011, 11:51:30 am: Last I herd and that's some time ago ( Mid 90's ) Gary still had it.
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: Stan S on January 29, 2011, 12:54:00 pm: Quote from: Slakewell on January 29, 2011, 11:51:30 am
Last I herd and that's some time ago ( Mid 90's ) Gary still had it.

I'm pretty sure Gary doesn't have that bike. I think I will be seeing Gary this week so I will ask him and let you know.

Stan.
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: Slakewell on January 29, 2011, 01:04:58 pm: Whilst it's an interesting bike and I was told it was built because Montesa didn't make a 73 open class bike. I was told also that it had special factory parts in the motor.
Would be a nice pre 75 open class bike bike but you could also build one if you really wanted to.
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: SAABCOMBI on January 29, 2011, 03:15:54 pm: I have a dvd with Gary racing this bike as well as other makes and model from 67 to 73, I am sure this 360 was very well sorted out, LyalI was no fool and Alf berry was machanically witch on too, Gary had the backing from the day he started racing to the day he stopped, and l was sorry to see him stop when he did, he was a top rider and very much a front runner very time he pulled that clutch in. I personally looked up to gary, l have practise with him, i have raced him and l have won against him, he was a champion rider and l would like to know the whereabout of that VR 360.
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: k2000x on February 17, 2011, 08:13:15 am: im starting to think i might have the frame...as ive got a vr frame but the brake pedal and mount have been added to the left side of bike and there is a few other tabs also welded on wich makes me think an older gp engine was once fitted..i will check the numbers and post on just incase someone can confirm
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: SAABCOMBI on February 17, 2011, 08:21:34 am: send me some photo`s as l will tell what it is.
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: k2000x on February 17, 2011, 09:44:41 am: jawa give us your email address and i will send pics..for the love of god i still cannt post pics up here
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: paul on February 17, 2011, 10:00:07 am: send this pic here paul@maico.com.au and i.ll post it on this site
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: paul on February 19, 2011, 08:15:23 am: (http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo263/ozmaico/P4220049.jpg)
(http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo263/ozmaico/P4220053.jpg)
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: SAABCOMBI on February 19, 2011, 08:41:49 am: It look like a Vr frame the brake mounting point is on the left side, VR`s where right side. thinking back, their was only one or two frames that l know off, one was trashed or damaged at a rally cross meeting at Calder in 1974, and l think the frame was bent, it may have been fixed, i am sure that the VR360 was sold as a complete bike where it went l don`t know.
What you have there just may be the O`Brian 360 Vr Frame.
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: JC on February 20, 2011, 10:29:29 am: I don't know the whereabouts of that bike but I do have some info on it that Lyall sent me 2-3yrs before he died. Will try to scan & post shortly. Believe it or not 47hp at rear wheel; dyno chart to prove it!

As the pic shows, it was converted to left foot g'shift
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: JC on February 20, 2011, 11:24:54 am: 360GP engine in 63M chassis, built for Ed Lancaster, 72:
Lyall's comment: "The VR-framed bike was a much better bike"

(http://api.ning.com/files/-mqLWx-sI8hLkhqzGUJNrWT*P9CovacfowMbAckCFaTtzzRF0Zi2e8c3H6U3fGK3Xy4Xp2ySU-xyxr1NsAvbKLEiSmmvKTzQ/Obrien72Cappra360EdLancaster.jpg?width=640&height=409)

72 125MX motor in VR chassis; 34mm Bing "approx 27Hp on petrol":

(http://api.ning.com/files/cgqM1B68IZYhuoFkTOHbcqD-UnCIkubs9GcRDrBTGyhLWFib4eij1NNweYP11w63p*eS0SW5u*QWZDXZ7Y9MFD6T5VD5umNp/ObrienVR125.jpg?width=640&height=421)
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: JC on February 20, 2011, 11:28:22 am: 1st 360GP engine in chassis that Lyall built:
Note left side gear change

(http://api.ning.com/files/nnUpLv0WTTXyFYJ4ag2tnG51twDgkKU-Zh1CXbqURH95az0BTrXUea10pWP*gtbWtB627-mvSWguIBc*-faVjRe1DwrErJBm/Obrien360VRc74.jpg?width=737&height=532)

Dyno chart:

(http://api.ning.com/files/ooCq3VmcDKsDVXXHwfMsyhG0zHagQ0ut52LBNXP9GPq3igABUSXmB-pYGJTPOQMe4NQotzH2gj7iNgbe24iHB*yCR68VPCMu/Obrien360VRdynochart.jpg?width=349&height=480)
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: Stan S on February 20, 2011, 02:06:07 pm: By accident I came accross a thread on a forum relating to what I think maybe this bike. The comment is as follows:

"I still have a 360cc Montesa, winner of the Australian 500cc Short Circuit title in 1973, as well as the Laurie Boulter Trophy and the Grand National in Victoria, in each event being ridden by Gary O'Brien, son of the Montesa Importer. Just a bit of Trivia. "

I will contact him as soon as I can and try and find out more, so stay tuned. Also I will be seeing or speaking to Gary O'brien shortly and I will ask him also.

Regards Stan.
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: jerry on February 20, 2011, 03:08:39 pm: Nice work Stanley
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: Stan S on February 20, 2011, 03:24:17 pm: Quote from: jerry on February 20, 2011, 03:08:39 pm
Nice work Stanley

Jerry, do you think I could get some work experience at you private investigation agency? :D

Regards Stan.
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: Stan S on February 22, 2011, 09:16:21 pm: Good news, I have confirmed the existance of Gary O'briens 73, 360 Grand National, Laurie Boulter and Australian 500 short circuit winning bike, it's in very good unrestored condition and am in negotiation to purchase it ;D. So if everything goes to plan I will bring it to CD8.
Hey David, thanks for posting this topic as I would never have found this bike again.

Stan.
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: Hoony on February 22, 2011, 09:39:36 pm: Quote from: Stan S on February 22, 2011, 09:16:21 pm
Good news, I have confirmed the existance of Gary O'briens 73, 360 Grand National, Laurie Boulter and Australian 500 short circuit winning bike, it's in very good unrestored condition and am in negotiation to purchase it ;D. So if everything goes to plan I will bring it to CD8.
Hey David, thanks for posting this topic as I would never have found this bike again.

Stan.

good stuff Stan, post up some pics when you get it.
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: jerry on February 22, 2011, 09:44:11 pm: The jobs yours Stanley, when can you start? Have you pinched this from under Dave's nose? Jerry
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: Stan S on February 22, 2011, 10:03:52 pm: Quote from: jerry on February 22, 2011, 09:44:11 pm
The jobs yours Stanley, when can you start? Have you pinched this from under Dave's nose? Jerry

I wouldn't have put it like that Jerry ;) what time do I start ;D I just thought I should grab it before it got away.
Hooney I will put the photo's up as soon as I can get to it.

Regards Stan.
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: Captain Bilko on February 23, 2011, 06:34:20 am: Unreal. Great stuff Stan. Can I come around and have a gawk?
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: firko on February 23, 2011, 06:55:35 am: Quote
Australian 500 short circuit winning bike
Great find Stan, but didn't Gary win the Short Circuit title on a Hagon JAP?
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: Slakewell on February 23, 2011, 06:56:46 am: Well done be good to have a close look at it.
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: Stan S on February 23, 2011, 07:08:38 am: Quote from: firko on February 23, 2011, 06:55:35 am
Quote
Australian 500 short circuit winning bike
Great find Stan, but didn't Gary win the Short Circuit title on a Hagon JAP?

Mark, I think it was later than 73 before Gary got a slider and I think it was either a Hagon or Godden jap.
I remember he did do a lot of dirt track on the Monty's in the early days but I can't swear to the 73 500 Aussie Title claim, thats what the owner of it tells me that Lyall verified.

Regards Stan.
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: firko on February 23, 2011, 09:13:29 am: I recall having a conversation with Gary at one of the last Condo meetings where he reckoned the Hagon JAP he rode at that meeting was ''very similar'' to the bike he won the title on. He was damn fast on those sliders, even in the vintage era.
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: SAABCOMBI on February 23, 2011, 06:55:14 pm: Well thats good stan, you have found the Montesa VR 360 and your buying it, as it would have been a waste to see it rot in a shed, if you don`t buy it for any reason l would hope that you consider giving me a chance to buy it., l am happy that you found the bike as l have a dvd with gary racing it at barrabool in 1973 and the bike is a rocket ship. cheers. Team Jawa
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: Stan S on March 05, 2011, 10:39:28 pm: Ok, this is the latest about the 360. The statement of being in very good unrestored condition was stretching the truth a bit. It had been modified for enduro's back in the late seventies/early eighties including grab handles welded on the rear frame loop, enduro gaurds etc. The frame has been painted red ??? Ugly fork caps fitted. But the good news is that the motor was completely gone through by Lyall O'brien not long before he died ( R.I.P) and it hasn't been used since.
I'm dissapointed at the mods but will just take a bit more work to put back to it's former glory. I have paid a deposit and will be picking it up in the Sydney area in a couple of weeks.
I spoke to Gary O'brien a few days ago and he said the later Tank, seat and shoulderless rims were added in 74 when the new model VR's came out. He was happy that I had found it and keen to see it put back to what it was in 73.

Stan.

(http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af39/gf079/Montesa/AMontesa360Motocross001.jpg)
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: firko on March 05, 2011, 10:49:32 pm: Stan, what a find :o. That big lump of engine looks pretty damn macho in there! Considering the age and life the old Monty's had it's survived pretty well when comapred with many other relics I've seen.

If you aren't going to use those air caps, I'm willing to buy 'em off you. I've been looking for a set to suit Betors for a while ;).
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: Stan S on March 05, 2011, 10:55:45 pm: Quote from: firko on March 05, 2011, 10:49:32 pm

If you aren't going to use those air caps, I'm willing to buy 'em off you. I've been looking for a set to suit Betors for a while ;).

Their yours Mark.
By the way had you ever seen or heard about this bike around the Sydney area? Seems strange someone hasn't found it before this.

Regards Stan.
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: firko on March 05, 2011, 11:03:24 pm: Thanks mate....Nah, if I'd known about it living here I certainly would have put my detective hat on and traced it down. It's a serious bit of history and it's going to a good home. What part of Sydney did it live?
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: Stan S on March 05, 2011, 11:18:04 pm: Quote from: firko on March 05, 2011, 11:03:24 pm
Thanks mate....Nah, if I'd known about it living here I certainly would have put my detective hat on and traced it down. It's a serious bit of history and it's going to a good home. What part of Sydney did it live?

Near Castle Hill I beleive.

This is it when O'briens still owned it (thanks JC for the photo)
(http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af39/gf079/Montesa/2Obrien360VRc74.jpg)

And when this guy bought it off Ryan's. He said the number 18 was on it when he got it.
(http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af39/gf079/Montesa/AAMontesa360Motocross1.jpg)
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: cappra on March 05, 2011, 11:45:09 pm: What a great find! Would like to have a peek inside that cylinder and see how
Lyall got the power out of that beast! Pretty basic porting and that motor weighs
over 70lbs.
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: Stan S on March 06, 2011, 08:53:30 am: Quote from: cappra on March 05, 2011, 11:45:09 pm
What a great find! Would like to have a peek inside that cylinder and see how
Lyall got the power out of that beast! Pretty basic porting and that motor weighs
over 70lbs.

Cappra, when I lift the cylinder I will take some pic's and send them to you.

Stan.
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: Slakewell on March 06, 2011, 09:38:12 am: Any new pics of this bike now?
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: firko on March 06, 2011, 10:15:51 am: My American mate Mike, who's currently doing a 20 point resto of a '69 360GP has asked how hard was it to do the right shift conversion? There's another thing to check out when you pull her down Stan ;D.

So the bike lived in Castle Hill area? That's only 20k from me but it may have been 20000 miles if I didn't know it was there >:(. It makes me wonder what other historic gems are sitting forgotten under rotting sheets in sheds throughout Australia?
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: SAABCOMBI on March 06, 2011, 11:27:28 am: (http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad275/albrid3/006.jpg)
Gary o`brien barrabool 1973
Congratulation on finding the VR Stan, The photo Above tells the story.
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: SAABCOMBI on March 06, 2011, 11:32:09 am: My friend picked up a rotting gem this week and that is a montesa clock work orange 250 68-69 model here in geelong, so l am helping him find some parts. (GearBox Parts )
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad275/albrid3/68cappra250.jpg)
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: SAABCOMBI on March 06, 2011, 11:37:08 am: My brother DENNIS RACED A 69 MONTESA 360, at the time is was bore out to 380 cc, and the person who raced it before my brother bought it was Malcome Palmer from Geelong.
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: Stan S on March 06, 2011, 07:07:23 pm: Quote from: Slakewell on March 06, 2011, 09:38:12 am
Any new pics of this bike now?

Slakewell, if you have a look at page 3 reply 33 there is a pic of it now.

Stan.
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: Slakewell on March 06, 2011, 07:33:58 pm: Hmm that pic wasn't loading before but now seems fine. Interwebs who knows?
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: JC on March 07, 2011, 12:47:33 pm: Stan, I don't mean to 'thro a spanner in the works', but are you sure its the one Gary raced. The info from Lyall attached to the pic I posted above says "First 360VR I built". He told me he built others too, but I can't remember how many now. From memory I'm fairly sure it was only a few.

Quote from: cappra on March 05, 2011, 11:45:09 pm
What a great find! Would like to have a peek inside that cylinder and see how
Lyall got the power out of that beast! Pretty basic porting and that motor weighs
over 70lbs.

Jared, I have a copy of the pipe specs from Lyall if you want them, which appear to have originated from the factory: "Tubo 360 3/5/74". Its not a great p/copy but is mostly legible.

My recollections from talking w Lyall are that it was a modifed VR pipe w longer/fatter header, longer/fatter mid-section, & larger dia stinger. And thats what the plan seems to indicate - the dimensions are only on the extra/diff sections

I tho't he "six-ported" the engine (extra transfers) but on checking the info on Lyall's road race Montys (which I hope to post in another thread in the next day or so) he says that about the r/r 350, so I don't know now if it applied to the VR360 engine as well. No doubt, Stan will find that in due course.

He sure was a tuning wizard, not unlike the legendary Bert Flood.
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: Stan S on March 07, 2011, 04:40:29 pm: Quote from: JC on March 07, 2011, 12:47:33 pm
Stan, I don't mean to 'thro a spanner in the works', but are you sure its the one Gary raced. The info from Lyall attached to the pic I posted above says "First 360VR I built". He told me he built others too, but I can't remember how many now. From memory I'm fairly sure it was only a few.

JC, I am used to people throwing spanners in the works ;D. Going by the documentation that the present owner has from Lyall who confirmed it was the bike that won the Grand National, the Laurie Boulter and short circuit title as well as some Rally Cross wins. I am sure this is Gary's bike. There is no doubt there has been a lot of components changed since 73 as also the bike in the picture that you posted as his "First 360VR" which has a 74 tank, layed down shock position and shoulderless rims which the original 73 bike had none of.
Can you email me the pipe specs also please as the pipe with this bike looks very much like the design you described.

Regards Stan.
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: JC on March 07, 2011, 08:06:42 pm: Thats great Stan

Yep, I'll do that tomorrow hopefully. Can you PM me yr email again pls. Hope it scans OK
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: SAABCOMBI on March 07, 2011, 09:47:11 pm: Why are you attracted to VMX Stan, its because, like all of us we like to relive the past, owe youth, if l had my time all over again, l would race motorcross, and also road racing as l loved racing rally cross at calder race way. Gary O`Brien also raced rally cross on that 360 VR, and wrecked it down the back straight. But l would do it differently tho.
Title: Re: Montesa VR 360 4speed
Post by: Stan S on March 07, 2011, 09:55:48 pm: Quote from: Team Jawa on March 07, 2011, 09:47:11 pm
Why are you attracted to VMX Stan, its because, like all of us we like to want to relive the past, owe youth, if l had my time all over again, l would race motorcross, and also road racing as l loved racing rally cross at calder race way. Gary O`Brien also raced rally cross on that 360 VR, and wrecked it down the back straight. But l would do it differently tho.

Yeah David I guess your right, but if I was really serious I would have to lose about 50kg to get to my ex racing weight :D :D :D

Stan.