OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Spaniards (Bultaco, Ossa, Montesa etc) => Topic started by: jimg1au on January 12, 2011, 06:23:06 pm
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i am looking a putting a deposit on a 1969 250 gp cappra sight unseen.after brads problems with dodgy parts on the cz.what problems could i expect from buying this bike for total resto into a race bike.
i would need to keep it pre1970 leagle.
all i know it has a white frame orange tank and it is a 5 speed 1969
i used to race one of these in the early 70s dirt track
jim
its in the usa i will be loking at the bike but not till june the seller will keep it for me if i put a deposit on it
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For starter Jim, the 69 models were 4 speeds not 5 speeds, the 1970 to 72 grey tank model cappra where 5 speed., They are a bullet proof engine as long as you keep the expansion chamber nut tight, through away the monobluc carbie and a mikuini, replace the foot pegs with folding one, the clock work orange cappra is a great looking bike, build the engine properly and you won`t have a problem, the kick starter spring can give problems, shim the gear box properly and you won`t have a problem. good luck.
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A lot of Monty stuff is interchangable. Or it's easy to make something fit. I don't know a lot about these models but I'm sure you can get plenty of help to keep her runnin'.
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this is from sowth west montesa web page
bikes for 1969
1969
- 175 Impala 175cc
- Micro 66 Scooter, 50cc
- 49 Ciclo 50cc
- 250 Impala Sport 250cc
- Kenya 175, 175cc
- Texas 1 175cc
- Cota 247 Mk 2, 247cc
- Cappra 250-5spd. 250cc
- Cappra 250 GP.-4spd 250cc
- Cappra 360 GP 360cc
43m 1969 gp250 5 speed cappra 43M
Cappra GP 5-spd 250cc
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That would be year of manufacture. They'd be 1970 models. If you look at the V75 (1975), it is down as 1974. :)
I had the chance to buy the bike that Lyall O'Brien and Graeme Dawe built shortly before Lyall passed away at CD4 for 4G. The wife was quite happy for me to run in and grab the deposit but in a moment of irrational rationallity, I passed it up.
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee74/All_things_414/bikes_010.jpg)
I been kicking myself ever since.... :'(
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That would be year of manufacture. They'd be 1970 models. If you look at the V75 (1975), it is down as 1974. :)
I had the chance to buy the bike that Lyall O'Brien and Graeme Dawe built shortly before Lyall passed away at CD4 for 4G. The wife was quite happy for me to run in and grab the deposit but in a moment of irrational rationallity, I passed it up.
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee74/All_things_414/bikes_010.jpg)
I been kicking myself ever since.... :'(
i carnt believe you didnt buy that beauty ,i hope you gave yourself a good kicking cause you ended up with a yz 80 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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I think what put me off was that it was just way too nice to ride. I mean immaculate. I'd never ride it.
At least the 80's gunna get a damn good pastin'! 8)
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it the first time i think a bike for sale was too nice to buy
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I'd just hate to have a bike in my shed that I wouldn't ride. Even worse if I had five of 'em (or is it six?)
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The M.A. 2011 MoMS along with previous versions show the '69 Montesa GP250 as legal for Pre70 along with the Lacrosse 250. They are a great looking bike and from all accounts very fast.
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someone in spain or even singleton . would off paid big money for that ,im starting to doubt wether that mx tv had the right person ie the famous monty man from ballarat,give you self another kick
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cheapskate ;D from now on ill be ringing montynut :-\
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from now on ill be ringing montynut :-\
Have your computer on Wikipedia if you do..... :D
When he's stuck, he rings me! ;)
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this is the way you go every time that carpet van get back on the road again ;D all sorta shit happens
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My mate Mike is restoring his orange 360 Cappra after it sat under a hedge for 30 years. Here it is prior to resto and during. The engine is currently receiving the treatment. No...I don't know what the story is with the two different tanks but I'll find out if anyone wants to know. :)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/mike%20monty%201.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/mike%20monty%206.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/mike%20monty%205.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/mike%20monty%207.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/mike%20monty%209.jpg)
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That GP360 is one great looking bike 8).
Now to the Ross and Paul show or is it the Megalonychidae and Bradypodidae show ::) but which is which.
The Oedipus complex at work in one or both cases??? ;D
Joking joking OK ;D :D
But yes Paul by all means give me first go at any interesting Monties you happen by ;) :)
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There is a 360 gp on ebay, the one greame and lyall sold was first bought off me the history behind that bike, l bought it off the original owner Larry Powell and he raced the monty back in the 60`s and early 70`s bought the bike new off Lyall in geelong and Larry is related to John Boag, l found the bike one street back from my place at his son`s place. They did do a very nice restoration
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For starter Jim, the 69 models were 4 speeds not 5 speeds
Are you certain of that Dave? I was under the impression that the first release of the orange bikes had 4 speeds (1968?) and the '69 models had 5 speeds. Billy Browns dual Nats pre '70 class winner is certainly 5 speed. Perhaps Jared can give a definitive answer?
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Sounds like this bike is a gp5 the dirt tracker or a gp with a five speed box they fit in, I dont think its legeal if its had a 5 speed box fitted by the way I understand the rules, reguardless they are a lovely bike got a couple of them and they make me giggle like a schoolgirl every time I ride them!
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i had a quick look and all the ma pre 70 bike list says gp250 gp360.nothing about 4 or 5 speed
if it looks the same on the out side as a 1968 69 as with most bikes they dont worry whats on the inside
i think it is a short track bike the owner was telling me thismorning on the phone
def has white frame and orange tank.folding foot pegs steel with ribs(his words)
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ask him if it has a 18 inch front wheel and no brake the model number is 53m for the gp the gp5 has a differnt one cant remember what it is off the top of my head, very rare bike no matter what one it is, I can give a bit of info if you pm me I'll give you my contact number
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I should have added the book mentions something about gearbox mods I could be wrong someone out there will know for sure
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The '68 GP250 was a 4 speed and 53M model designation with only around 250 made. The '69 GP250 was a 5 speed model designation 43M with around 1100 made. Both had 21" front wheels.
Externally they appear very similiar (almost identical)
http://www.montesaweb.com/secciones/modelos.aspx
Firko the two tanks your mate has are for the '69 360 GP/DS possibly the DS was a dessert model ??? with the optional larger tank production run of around 200 model 46M http://www.montesaweb.com/secciones/detalles.aspx?id=30
the picture shows the blue colour scheme scrambler version ??? with 19" front wheel while your mates orange colour scheme is the motocross version with 21' front wheel :)
http://www.earlyyearsofmx.com/MontesaCapra.html
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Hi have to dissagree with you montynut I have a 69 gp and they are 4 speeds, I have the original book that came with it the gp5 box goes straight in I have one of those also the motors are the same from all the info I have,before anyone starts getting cranky I'm only stating the information I'm aware of and will stand correct if I'm wrong
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No one getting cranky here :) just an interesting discussion.
My info only comes from the WEB pages I linked above as I started riding in '71 so a '69 Monty is before my time but they look great ;).
The '69 360GP was a 4 speed as all 360 Monty MXers where as far as I know. It took most of the Japanese brands until the '80s to work out that an open class MXer only needed 4 speeds ::)
The VB360 can have the 5 speed from the VB250 installed or just put the VB360 cylinder on the VB250 bottom end if you are crazy enough.
As Montesa was a relatively small factory (although much bigger than Bultaco or Ossa) things changed through the production cycle. Looking through the VR250 parts book today (kindly lent by Ross ;D) there are actually three distinct VR250 models yet only the '73 VR and '74 VR are ever discussed. So maybe you are correct that the '69 250GP started as a 4 speed and was updated mid model to 5 speed. I don't think we can say absolutely.
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The 53M (250 GP) 4 speed was released in 68' The 43M (250 GP five) was released in 69'.
The two look similar, but the 53M used different cases (narrower than the 5 speed cases)
The 43M used the new 34m cases which used 3 main bearings and was wide enough to
fit a five speed trans. I remember seeing both models sold side by side in the dealership.
The mx guys wanted the 4 speed model, the desert, flat track guy's wanted the 5 speed.
The 53M actually uses the same transmission as the 125mx (18M)
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my web browsing comes up with the same info as cappra
43m 5 speed & 53m 4 speed were sold side by side in 69 only 1100 were sold world wide 43ms
when i get some pics i will post them it might take a few days as it is snowing were the bike is at the moment (usa)
jim
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the cappra i raced in early 70s had solid foot pegs like the one in firkos pics.the one i am looking at has folding footpegs
jim
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Mark, l remember that my brothers 360 gp was a 4 speed, my others brothers grey ghost was a 5 speed as l have raced the 72 model, and nearly killed myself on the 360. l rode the 68 model at the time a friend owned and raced it andit was a 4 speed. so they may have went to 5 speed in 69. but their where two different frames specially in the 360, one had a detach rear loop, and the other was part of the frame as we know it.
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Firko the two tanks your mate has are for the '69 360 GP/DS possibly the DS was a dessert model with the optional larger tank production run of around 200 model 46M
Spot on...Here's Mikes reply to my querie.
If you look closely at the tank it says Cappra 360 ds, it's a desert special large tank. A friend bought that 40 years ago for his Cappra and never put gas in it. I've had it for almost 20 years now.
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the 360 that sold on ebay had the DS tank mounted on it.
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Where's all ya lovely orange Cappra photos, folks?!
My old Cappra at Bihamco - Jan, 1973 Dandy Club Champs
(http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b431/DoggyDigger/cappra-1.jpg)
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Rog, was it a 4speed or 5 speed, do you wish that you still own it.
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Haven't seen it since 1974, Dave. We were bogan teenagers who didn't give a s**t about old bikes.
No-one actually fessed up to owning it. (Someone'd bought it for $50 off Geoff Taylor's graveyard of
trade-ins ... and it was dumped at our house)
I did love riding it. It cornered and jumped like a dream. I think orange Cappras are beautiful
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here are the pics wont get it here till oct though
(http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp221/jimg1au/M5.jpg)
(http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp221/jimg1au/M4.jpg)
(http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp221/jimg1au/M3.jpg)
(http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp221/jimg1au/M2.jpg)
(http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp221/jimg1au/M1.jpg)
(http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp221/jimg1au/M6.jpg)
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It all looks pretty well there and un-molested. Grouse. :)
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I think I can see a little rust ...
Good on you, Jim!
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Cool Monty Jimmy. I reckon this is the best way to buy an old MXer, what you see is what you get, it hasn't been bodged by some backyard 'restorer' and his trusty rattle can and Supercheap socket set. The beauty of starting with something as virgin as that rusty old Monty is that you can do it yourself, the way you want to and when it's finished sit back on the milk crate with a cup of English Breakfast (Jim doesn't drink) and admire your own handywork, not someones elses......and that's all before you even get to ride it.
Have a yarn with Billy Brown and Mark Peatman at the next Penrith meeting and they'll set you straight on the proper path to take Jim. Billy got 20 solid years of racing including two Nats pre 70 wins out of his orange Monty without needing a single bottom end rebuild. Do it right the first time and you too might get 20 years of fun out of that bike.
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Nice one Jim, she is a ripper, do it right and you will love it to death. David 46#
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Great looking find and a good basis to start. Looks like a Husky front hub but not sure.
Looking forward to seeing progress photos later this year ;D
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How cool are the tanks on those things? :)
wont get it here till oct though
Geezez man! I'd be rowing over there and gettin' it...... :P
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i am going over to the usa in may /june,holiday with wife mostly in new york.then off to yellowstone nat park.driving from reno via fresno(flattrack holy land Dan Rouit Flat Track Museum).along the way stopping off at some of my mates places and behold at 1 of them will be this bike i used to race(i realy did) and i have the ok to buy one while i am over there.then to las vegas was going to visit firkos mate bob(rip bob).then home. bike will take 3 months to get here but only at a cost of 500.00 aust dollars.i might even drop it off in long beach myself.more cost cutting
thats the plan.
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Jim, stop in at Tom whites museum and check out my old Dot for me if you have time.
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Dear 66M,
How uncool and how non-all things 414 can you be ... not owning an orange Cappra.
Shame on you!
Rog
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Dear 66M,
How uncool and how non-all things 414 can you be ... not owning an orange Cappra.
Shame on you!
Rog
I'm spanking myself this very moment Rog..... :'(
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There are still out their in sheds, in 1968 there where a lot of those models raced in Victoria, specially in the western centre and Gippsland. centre, Melbourne
Larry Powel 250
Neveil Parmer rode a 360.
Kevin McKinnon 250
G salmon 250
Dennis Alsop rode a 360
Ed lancaster rode a 250
willis 360
Thampson 250
coldwell 250
mclean 360
Gary O`Brien 360
Schepers 360
Rose 250
Peel 250
Lowe 250
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Laurie Alderton rode both 250 and 360.
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deposito:
http://link.marktplaats.nl/412509273
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You have tank, where is the rest of it.
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its not from me
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got engine and frame no matching
43m003XX
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That does`nt matter Jim if numbers don`t match.
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Umm. I think he's saying that they do match dave....
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sorry yes the engine and frame match.
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I just dug out the montesa book heres the specs as stated by the factory I dont have a scanner so will type it in word for word
Specifications CAPPRA 250-FIVE
ENGINE
bore and stroke 72.5x60
Displacement 247.69
Compression ratio 13 to 1
Horsepower 33@6500 rpm
Theres some more about carb ,ingition and the 5 gear ratios
then
Front tire 300-18
rear tire 400-18
t
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I think I've got a set of fibreglass sidecovers for one of those white-framed Cappras somewhere out in the shed- from back in my Mantossa days. A bit scruffy, from memory- but useable. Let me know if anyone can use them.
Cheers,
Martin
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martin
i have bought the 1 in the usa what do you want for the side cover
thanks
jim
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Hi Jim,
As you can see, they need a bit of tidying up.
$30 the pair plus postage.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/Kommer/P1130878-1.jpg)
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with the dollar so strong over the greenback i paid 500 via payapl already for the cappra.so only 500 to go and its mine pluss shipping ofcourse
jim
nitram
my name is on those side covers dont sell them to any body else.will organise to pick them up.
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are you going to keep those sidecovers like that Jim?I like them,a bit Salvador Dali or Picasso ;)
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no
they will befinished as it left the factory
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6 sleeps to go then off to the usa and the montesa cappra 5 speed.will also be calling in on firkos mate with the 360 as well on the way to dan rouits
jim
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Does anybody know where l can purchase cush drive rubbers i need them for my rear wheel (for my 67 model monty.33m )
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I have been lucky enough to find a 53m frame and matching motor. Its in rough condition and requires some parts such as seat and guards and sidecovers. Most of the pictures of these bikes show the rear of the frame extending past the seat similar to a later grey tank 63m. My frame stops at the shock mounts and has a chrome loop that bolts on and supports the rear guard. Can someone identify what model this is, I assume it is a 1968 orange tank/ white frame 250 4speed cappra gp but stand to be corrected. Any help to locate the missing parts will result in my undying admiration.
Cheers, Rob
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68 has bolt on rear loop 69 its as per 63m got parts for them if you need them
I have been lucky enough to find a 53m frame and matching motor. Its in rough condition and requires some parts such as seat and guards and sidecovers. Most of the pictures of these bikes show the rear of the frame extending past the seat similar to a later grey tank 63m. My frame stops at the shock mounts and has a chrome loop that bolts on and supports the rear guard. Can someone identify what model this is, I assume it is a 1968 orange tank/ white frame 250 4speed cappra gp but stand to be corrected. Any help to locate the missing parts will result in my undying admiration.
Cheers, Rob
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my cappra 250 1969 5 speed roller arrived today last i saw it it was in nevada near the ca border the motor is still there but it is finished being rebuilt ready for testing.the roller is now in my garage in sydney nsw.it had a nice stay in la before its cruise on the pacific seing all the sites from inside its container.
now to restor the roller ready for the motor to land in feb/march. then off to nepean for tests
anyone got any dirt track gearing for a 5 speed monty
jim
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Hold it flat & 2nd gear out of the start. ;D
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Well Jim hope you have more joy with your Monty than I did.
I am considering doing the unthinkable and putting a alternative power sorce in the bloody thing. :(
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:o ::) :P