OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: Marc.com on November 12, 2010, 08:52:03 am
-
KTM called it and built new 2 stroke models this year and the US market has ripped their arms off..... so much for feel good environmentalism designed to sell more repair parts..... I know what I would by, lot of orange out there this season/
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/54016/Motorcycle-Photo-Gallery-Photo/2011-KTM-Dirt-Bike-Models.aspx
-
Looks like they have everything in the range covered....The 300 2 banger might be on my list in the next couple of years.
-
Looks like they have everything in the range covered....The 300 2 banger might be on my list in the next couple of years.
YOu certainly cant go wrong with the 300, they have been bullit proof all the years i have had them (since 1992), various models, VERY little change in engines, even a good '92 300 makes power similar to the current model, just doesnt have the electric leg or the 6 speed box.
4 strokes are a way too expensive marketing ploy, TWO STROKE ROCK for anything other than distance, I rode one Weipa to Cape York years ago, drank fuel but no problems other than that!
Kt
-
4 strokes are a way too expensive marketing ploy, [/quote]
Yeah finally the AMA are recognising that 4 strokes are killing MX affordability at grass level, there must have been a lot of parent sponsors push their kids to change sports after the first 250 4ST rebuild. Yamaha is also hangng in there with the YZ 2 strokes. I think KTM have played it smart, they have the market to themselves and there is segment of the market that will buy 2 strokes that are competitive..... namely trail riders, clubman racers.
The KTM 300 has always been an awesome bike .... repeatedly pops up as off road bike of the year in the US.
-
A mate of mine recently did a KTM ride day and sampled a few bikes.
He is a staunch 4st WR450 supporter/owner and came away impressed with the KTM 530 and may become a KTM 530 owner soon since Yamaha have done SFA with the WR450 in the last 3 odd years.
He also rode the 300 and couldn't believe a 2st had grunt,but it took a little more work.
I much prefer a lighter bike and hope to get back into riding again next year.
IF Suzuki brought out a modern day RMX250....i'd jump at it.
-
may become a KTM 530 owner soon since Yamaha have done SFA with the WR450
Yes which is supported by the fact that Whibley swapped to a YZ450 after the first couple of rounds of the AMA off road champs loosing on a WR450 and hasn't lost since.
Its more Japanese factory weirdness where Yamaha has always thought the off road riders will be happy with 3 year old YZ technology.
I would go KTM300, funny the 300 is a low end slugger and can grab traction the 4 strokes can't
-
4 strokes are a way too expensive marketing ploy,
Yeah finally the AMA are recognising that 4 strokes are killing MX affordability at grass level, there must have been a lot of parent sponsors push their kids to change sports after the first 250 4ST rebuild. Yamaha is also hangng in there with the YZ 2 strokes. I think KTM have played it smart, they have the market to themselves and there is segment of the market that will buy 2 strokes that are competitive..... namely trail riders, clubman racers.
The KTM 300 has always been an awesome bike .... repeatedly pops up as off road bike of the year in the US.
[/quote]
MA has just released MX class rule changes for next year- 250 2t's to the lites class for all levels. Apparently FIM is about to announce the same rule changes for the world mx classes as well, and a ban on 4t's in mini ranks :o
-
MA has just released MX class rule changes for next year- 250 2t's to the lites class for all levels. Apparently FIM is about to announce the same rule changes for the world mx classes as well, and a ban on 4t's in mini ranks :o
[/quote]
Wow finally some sanity, be interesting to see how the 250 2str go against the 250 4 str given that when that there was not that much in it with the earlier 450 4str bikes.
They shouldn't ban 4str in minis..... just let 80cc 4 str run against same capacity 2 stroke ;D
-
A mate of mine recently did a KTM ride day and sampled a few bikes.
He is a staunch 4st WR450 supporter/owner and came away impressed with the KTM 530 and may become a KTM 530 owner soon
Do your mate a favour and get him to do some research on the 530 "problems"...they are a lemon! supposedly they fixed the engine after the 08's but they are still blowing up.
I reckon the 300 is a great trail bike as well, really good fun, i'd still have one ;D
I used to be a KTM fan and for a trail bike I always bought them but since 2008 they are just going down hill, one disaster after another (xbow,RC8, 530) except for the 350. The only reason the are going to still exist as a motorbike company is because of the Indians buying them out could be a coincedence but that was about the same time their quality control went to shit.
Here is KTM's future...Indian made bikes http://www.ktm.com/125-Duke.103835.0.html
-
Wow finally some sanity, be interesting to see how the 250 2str go against the 250 4 str given that when that there was not that much in it with the earlier 450 4str bikes.
Its not uncommon for a 250F to be a faster MX bike than a 450F, even with pro riders on board (ref: Villipoto at the MXdN a couple of years back).
I don't think this new rule will upset the apple cart much - the really good guys (who don't pay for their bikes/maintenance) will keep running 4Ts, the bright-eyed hopefuls will keep running 4Ts, and the club level plodders will still be faster on their 4Ts.
This rule simply makes the 2Ts a nicer prospect for that narrow sliver of riders who are good enough to be faster on a 2T, but not cashed up enough to live with a 4T.
-
But can you ride say a service cr500 you cant tell me that a 450f has more grunt then even an older cr or kx500 and if you wanted to buy a new maico 500 or 700 where do you get one?
-
Its a shame KTM had to shelve most of their R&D in 2008. They were developing a 400cc Electric start, Direct Injection 2 stroke. It was supposed to have the power of an old CR500 with the rideability and economy of a modern 4 stroke, hopefully some other company will step up and develop a real modern 2 stroke.
It would be great if BRP decided to build motorbikes, that would really shake things up for 2 strokes!!
-
Its not uncommon for a 250F to be a faster MX bike than a 450F, even with pro riders on board (ref: Villipoto at the MXdN a couple of years back).
[/quote]
It also wasn't unknown for a 125 to win against the open class bikeas at MXdn but that doesn't mean everyone rushed out and all rode 125s.
I don't see a big difference in 250 2STR and 450 4STR performance except the 450 is easier to ride than an Ag bike and now has 3 years more chassis development in most cases.
I think a 250 2 STR will have the wood on a 4 STR .... defintely out of corners I think the 250 2 STR will piss off on equivalent capacity 4 STR. 250F is struggling against the big bore 125s that don't have anything like a 250s zap.
-
this James Stewart kid did pretty well on a 125 against the 4 strokes
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t94/rideitlikeustoleit74/motocross.jpg)
-
A mate of mine recently did a KTM ride day and sampled a few bikes.
He is a staunch 4st WR450 supporter/owner and came away impressed with the KTM 530 and may become a KTM 530 owner soon
Do your mate a favour and get him to do some research on the 530 "problems"...they are a lemon! supposedly they fixed the engine after the 08's but they are still blowing up.
Yeah Mick he is aware of the problems,my other mate has an 2010 530 that had just clocked over 1000kms and it turned into a huge smoke screen out in the bush.
Luckily covered under warranty but its a known issue.
Another mate has an 09 530 and used a shite load of oil and popped fork seals within a few weeks from new.
I like to burn oil the natural way...The 2 stroke way! ;D ;D ;D
-
Anyone else seen the latest Transmoto mag with the "comparison" of running costs/durability between the 250/300 exc two strokes, and the 530 4 stroke. Believe it or not they were pushing the 530?
Funny they should pick those bikes for a comparison, maybe someone is trying to clear the showroom floor of 530's????
-
Being a 2 stroke man for years, after a break for 15 years got back into it again, I had a 450 KTM & then the G450X in that time I still had a soft spot for the 2 stroke, so I now I've got a 2011 KTM 300, my first ride on it will be this Saturday I can't wait ;)
-
Saw one of them 510exc or what ever they are on the weekend in peices, it had more plastic parts than a chinamans bag, the head gasket leaked and through out a whole pile of hurt onto other bits, in the end its been pulled down and rebuilt, thats after they spend 30 mins tring to figure out how you get the barrel off as the cam chain goes throught there and appears like not removeble link.
Also saw one of them Flash newer KTM450 in there few weeks back too, the little plastic oil pump cog thing broke inside and lunched the motor, went from a $10K bike to about $2k in parts, all over a 50cent plastic thingy the size of a 50 cent piece.
I"D BAck a 2 eee in any day if its a cost of ownership comparison...
-
If I was buying i'd seriously consider the 2011 Gas Gas smokers. If your right leg still works you don't have to pay for the button starter if you choose. The little 200 comes with all the stuff the dickhead magazines reckon makes a bike go faster so you don't have to spend a cent more than $10k. Not much more for the 300 without a button. What's a 2011 ktm 300 retail for?
-
Being a 2 stroke man for years, after a break for 15 years got back into it again, I had a 450 KTM & then the G450X in that time I still had a soft spot for the 2 stroke, so I now I've got a 2011 KTM 300, my first ride on it will be this Saturday I can't wait ;)
You will love it Frank.
-
I own a 2009 YZ 250 2 stroke , love the thing , steathy flywheel , three tooth smaller back sprocket , perfect for trail rides. Reality it costs 8.5k for a new one , a few hundred on mods and its a goer. I like to reduce the compression damping alot , but thats more a time thing.
-
Hey slakey,ive ridden a mates 09 YZ 250 a few times and found the very bottom end sudden/abrupt if not offputting! Iam thinkin It must be setup like that from factory for dupercross? the mid and top end are choice fun (YeeHaa!!!) , How did you find the flywheel weight effected yours?and what weight was it? other than that a great thing to ride as are the 300 ktm! Go the two bangers !
-
Anyone else seen the latest Transmoto mag with the "comparison" of running costs/durability between the 250/300 exc two strokes, and the 530 4 stroke. Believe it or not they were pushing the 530?
Funny they should pick those bikes for a comparison, maybe someone is trying to clear the showroom floor of 530's????
Isn't the 530 the bike that's threatening to take KTM's reputation for reliability back to the early 1990s? ???
I dunno - they might last OK if you get a good one, but plenty of guys seem to have stories of them going Bang at low hours/kays.
-
Anyone else seen the latest Transmoto mag with the "comparison" of running costs/durability between the 250/300 exc two strokes, and the 530 4 stroke. Believe it or not they were pushing the 530?
Funny they should pick those bikes for a comparison, maybe someone is trying to clear the showroom floor of 530's????
Did they factor in the petrol costs of driving the 530 back and forward to the dealer on a trailer? ;D
-
Yep, Kato's are rubbish alright, all 17 of mine have been piles!
Seriously tho, whilst i dont think the latest examples are quite the quality parts of the older girls (Kato's) they definately are NOT rubbish, I have just put rings in a 530 with 9000k on it, oil is changed every 10 hours and only good stuff (Motul 5100), engine is good, another a 525 '06 just did piston and rings early this year at 18700 odd ks, now has just over 20,000k, both are now on 2011 530s. Me, i have a 2009 450, my second Ktm 4st in 18 years, first with a warranty problem in all 17 bikes ...a pourous cylinder head leaking oil= WARRANTY, nil problems since.
Yep, some duds in every brand, but not many Katos in my experience, not many duds in anything out of Japan either although they do have some probs with FAST WEARING rings and valves. THAT magazine forgot to factor in a head service,valves and cam chain at around $1500, but any 4st will wear them out eventually, any engine for that matter. Any modern bike is good, with maybe exception of Chinese product, in my experience.
xxxx :o
-
The old 400/520s (and the LC4s) developed a good rep for reliability, but its been going downhill in the last few years.
The 530s in particular seem to have a habit of eating their own internals for no apparent reason. One or two lemons is one thing, but there's been at least half a dozen different, premature 530 implosions reported on the modern forum I frequent.
-
Hey slakey,ive ridden a mates 09 YZ 250 a few times and found the very bottom end sudden/abrupt if not offputting! Iam thinkin It must be setup like that from factory for dupercross? the mid and top end are choice fun (YeeHaa!!!) , How did you find the flywheel weight effected yours?and what weight was it? other than that a great thing to ride as are the 300 ktm! Go the two bangers !
You have to get the jetting right or the bottom seems flat Warren Willing jetted mine for me, Go 4 sizes leaner on the neddle itself not the clips for a start. The bottom is so rich it wont pull.
Fly wheel makes it much more user friendly really pulls up the hills and you dont need to cluctch any corners, As I trail ride mine I went for a smaller rear sproket to help with fire trails.
-
I havent seen him for a while ,his was rich at first on the bottom which we leaned off and cleaned up the bottom ,but it was anything but flat! it felt like it had some sort of "boost jet" just as soon as you cracked the throttle -bit offputting ! very hard to keep in control on a flat corner or tight spot unlike the wind on grunt of the 490 maico they also bring with them or my 430 ,iam all for power but in the right place, i could imagine you'd get used to it and it would be probably suit super cross or freesyle, I reckon the flywheel weight would mellow the anoying little hit and make it a gem to ride! PS did you setup bike from new? cheers
-
The 530s in particular seem to have a habit of eating their own internals for no apparent reason. One or two lemons is one thing, but there's been at least half a dozen different, premature 530 implosions reported on the modern forum I frequent.
[/quote]
The 400/450/530 are all identical except for stroke dimensions, even 66 failures amongst the 2000 odd sold over last 3 years is VERY low, something like 2.5%, not acceptable i agree, but is common in any automotive manufcturing today,even cars have engine failures, Gen3 Holden v8 for example. You then have to account for things like the owner running it low on oil to cause the failure, very common with engines holding so little oil in bikes these days. I have a guy who says is using 200ml per 80k ride '09 450 Kt,rode 100k with him last week,we get back to car,he shows me window half full to prove his point, I say let sit and have a beer, 15min later window is full, i drained oil at home,sump and filter, he had used,assuming started with 600ml he says he put in, it still had 550ml approx, so 50 not 200ml in 100 k, quite normal with this engine, it doesnt take long to see a lot of problems on VERY high performance engines are starting to occur form incorrect or too little maintenance, like i say, any brnad has mechanical warranty problems, not just Kato's, I have owned riddern and raced 17 over 18 years,average 3500k year, ONE WARRANTY CLAIM.
kT
-
gen 3 V8's were lemons and so are the current KTMs, I've mentioned 530's in my posts but in fact I know of more 450's blowing up than 530's, Including several that have blown up on there first tank of fuel, so not due to lack of maintenance.
The group I ride in, about 15 regulars, all had KTM's until 08 with very few problems one guy had a bad run with warranty claims on 3 525's in a row but not real dramas, all the guys that bought 530/450 in the last 2 years sold them within a couple of months because of the ongoing dramas they had....there is now only one KTM left in our group an 08 450...on its second engine
-
gen 3 V8's were lemons and so are the current KTMs, I've mentioned 530's in my posts but in fact I know of more 450's blowing up than 530's, Including several that have blown up on there first tank of fuel, so not due to lack of maintenance.
The group I ride in, about 15 regulars, all had KTM's until 08 with very few problems one guy had a bad run with warranty claims on 3 525's in a row but not real dramas, all the guys that bought 530/450 in the last 2 years sold them within a couple of months because of the ongoing dramas they had....there is now only one KTM left in our group an 08 450...on its second engine
[/quote]
He should sell his too. It's certainly odd, I ride at different times with about 30 odd different owners, NONE have had engine blow ups at all, quite a few '08 owners had issues with oil consumption as well as some '09s,the guys with '10s and now 2011s are all happy so far all sorted under warranty. Each to his own i guess. Its like the brand of car i work on, reports of heaps of engine "blowups" reality is,today,17 out of 40,000 vehicles registered had engine failures & thats over 4 years now. Like is say, each to his own.
Kt
-
PS did you setup bike from new? cheers
Sorry I havent explained correctly, The rich bottom jetting makes it feel like it hits harder because it cleans suddenly into the mid range. The bike will feel much smother with correct jetting.
I bought my flywheel from Ballards for $200.00 , I'm sure you can buy one cheaper on ebay etc but I was in a hurry.
Worth the money for sure. Yes the bike was spankers new when I set it up.
It's a completely different bike once set up correctly, I will do the suspension next. Heavier springs and lots of compresion damping removed is next on the list.
-
I would like to see them do the same comparison between YZ250 and KTM 530 ..... I ran them as enduro bikes for 6 seasons, nothing wore out except tyres, nothing broke, no DNF ... well no bike related ones. I ran 2 seasons on my YZ250U on one set of piston rings, piston was still in tolerance.
Also as the young kiddies crave 4 strokes you can pick em up for less than a top end build on a KTM 450.
There you go 5 k and the rest is up to you
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Dirt-bikes/auction-333524815.htm
-
Currently own 06 300EXC bought new
Now has clocked over 7k
Piston kit at 6K & usual consumables ,pads ,chains , wheel bearings.
Owned '94 model previous .
Same deal ;
Great machines .
Seen a few mates switch to (various brands ) new age 4 $$troke grenades.......tried to tell them
Maybe after 1 or 2 rebuilds they may come to their senses :-\
(http://)(http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt127/scm00/4strokeposter.jpg)
-
Yeah no worries thanks for that Slakey ;)
-
If I was buying i'd seriously consider the 2011 Gas Gas smokers.
One of my friends is a Gas Gas dealer, they are small company that tries real hard. So far the 4 stroke Gas gas seem to do what 4 strokes do and have the occasional blow up.... but the 2 strokes have been stone cold motherless reliable.
-
After 10 years on 4 strokes, without too many drama's mind you, although 2 engine lock ups (under warranty/Euro bikes) and at the bottom of the biggest hill or in deepest darkest bush (never in your driveway), I'm back on a 250 2 stroke and loving it. Still learning how to ride it smooth and fast, but the big thing I notice is the lack of weight compared to the 4T's. My speed in the bush is about the same or almost but not so on the MX track just yet. Loving it to death and it can only help with racing a 2T VMX'er. Ridden 'em all and have never really liked the 300's in any brand and felt more comfortable on the 250's.
Cheers,
K
-
The 2010 model ktm 530 450s must be an ok bike because this year they won the
4 day oz enduro, finke and hattah desert races oh an also the oz safari... yes i might be a bit biased
cause i just recently bought a brand new 2010 530 but i new all about the 08 an 09 mechanical failures
before i lashed out an bought it..
ive only put 250kms on it but its been a great bike so far..
has great power an handling but u really have to take care of them such as
change the gear oil an filter every 300 to 400 kms. ive already changed the oil after 150kms of smooth riding just
to play it safe and after 750kms i will be taking it back to get the valves checked... :)
-
The 2010 model ktm 530 450s must be an ok bike because this year they won the
4 day oz enduro, finke and hattah desert races oh an also the oz safari...
:D I don't know what KTM race team does, but I can tell you that when Grabbo won the Safari on a Honda, they were feeding engines into his bike at a rate that would have the average punter running to the ACCC.
The idea that a race-prepared bike can be flogged for a few hundred kays before going in for a rebuild, has some relevance to the average trail-rider/enduro racer, is quite wide of the mark.
-
VALVE clearances should be checked as you suggest Andrew, 750k is probabley stretching it for first check, BUT, if they were correctly set you will not be adjusting them, even up to 5-6k you wont need to do them, unless you live at Finke/Alice that is! Just did rings etc in one at 9k, yup a dud '08 one, guess what, piston and bore in specs, VALVE CLEARNCES GOOD, valves good, he then sold it on to another one of our guys to ride and has a 2011!
I thought this is a vmx site?!?!?
God rides a KTM!
-
God rides a KTM!
Good thing Sunday's are a day of rest then ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Just don't mention Wee 90ty! Its ok then
-
Mates got 12,000k's up on an '09 530. Had to put rings in at 7,000. Hasn't missed a beat. Another mate has a '02 520 with 18,000 k's new top end at 7,000 still going strong.
All my mates and I all ride modern ktm's and have done for over 10 years now with no problems other than normal wear and tear. We usually do top ends at around 7-10,000k's. $1,200 parts and labour. Less if you source parts from the U.S. and do it yourself.
Got a few mates who race the safari with them and don't have the luxury of replacing motors everyday like the factory sponsored riders. None have DNF'd due to reliability issues.
Keep in mind that modern 4 strokes weigh half as much and put out twice the power that they used to.
I've always been a fourstroke rider and could never understand all the fuss 2 stroke riders make about 4 stroke maintenance. Sure 2 strokes are cheaper, lighter, faster but I just love the growl and torque of a 4 banger.
Different strokes for different folks.
-
Different strokes for different folks.
Indeed...
Although, I think a lot of the hard core lovers of modern 4-strokes would be very pleasantly surprised if they lived with a modern 2-stroke. I've heard of plenty that have 100hours++ on them, and are still on the original piston - and sometimes even the original rings*... Sure, they're not at their peak but they still start easily, run well and don't Go Boom.
And a full rebuild is about $1200 (piston kit, replate cylinder, rod kit, bearings & gaskets).
One thing that I do find amusing is the way the YZFs & WRFs have a great reputation for reliability among the modern 4-strokes - which is mostly well deserved. But nobody ever talks about how much it costs to rebuild one - the cost of parts is way beyond even what Honda gouges you for...
I know of a well used, well maintained 07 WRF450 that needed a freshen up (hadn't gone boom or been flogged to death) - the bill came to nearly $3k inc labour without doing the rod (which it really should have scored to avoid the Going Boom scenario).
A similar job on a CRF was just under half that...
*Thinking about it, I must have done 100 hours on my 94 TM125. Still got the same piston it had in it when I bought it used in 1997 - one ring in that time.
-
The true test of reliability is when they are motarded......the KTM's outlast the 4 jap bike engines by double or tripple....most of the jap 450's struggle to go a season without going bang.....and the Yammies go bang bigtime...one mates conrod hit the downtube that hard they had to realign the frame mounts.....I think the only part they didnt buy was the clutch.... ;D ;D all european bikes needed was good electrics and carby's to beat the japs and they did that by using the jap stuff....kehinn carbs and kokosan ign's and now there EFI....if you cant beat em, join em ;)
-
all european bikes needed was good electrics and carby's to beat the japs and they did that by using the jap stuff....kehinn carbs and kokosan ign's and now there EFI....if you cant beat em, join em ;)
in fact most bikes in the world ended up with Japanese carbs and ignitions, and a lot with forks and shocks. Harley, Ducati. I think it is the Japanese can produce precision components much better than anyone. Its the whole zero failure thing.
I wonder what state of tune crosses the line into unreliability with a 4 stroke, definitely Yamaha, Suzuki can produce 4 strokes like the DRZ and TTRs etc that are stone cold reliable.