OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: mx250 on November 05, 2010, 03:40:26 pm
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Yeah, yeah, I know its not V its not M or X, but I've got a problem and I know there are some pretty knowledgeable guys on the forum I can rely on to give good advice.
I got a 2rd hand 2005 Ford Focus 2lt auto for my daughter as her first car (cheapest I could find with air bags etc. ::)). 163,000klms. It has developed a computer fault effecting the engine management system. It started by cutting power (a safe mode) with a message about 'fault engine management'. Turn the engine off and on had the engine running normal with a warning symbol lit up (no other obvious differences.).
The manual says 'see authorised dealer' ::) $$$$'s ::). Went along and asked some questions, 'likely' probs? likely costs?'. $110 to diagnosis and wouldn't commit to any upper limit - "maybe $2000".
I feel complete vulnerable to rip off here (the same dealer/stealer tried to tell my wife our Falcon needed a $2000 head gasket replacement until I started asking questions >:(). Now I can tell bullshit from clay when talking mechanical issues but Computers.........
Any advice other than 'burn the bastard' or 'sell it'?
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This is why I like my 30+ year old cars so much. :D
Having worked for a Ford dealership for nearly 10 years, I would suggest that what they have told you is fairly accurate and maybe even conservative..
I spent 3 full days diagnosing a problem with a Mondeo once.
The best advice I could give is to ask around and find most reputable dealer you can and take it to them for diagnosis.
I've still got mates working at the same dealership I did, so if you're in doubt about the advice you're given, let me know and I can give one of them a call for clarification.
Good luck!
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MX250 it may be no help but.....
I've got mates with workshops that use scantools that "can" read fault codes well but doesn't give you the full info.
They've spent ages trying to diagnose a fault and still get stumped.
I've told them from the start 'save yourself the headache' and go to the dealer,pay the $110 and get a printout of the fault codes and ask if they are "present" (the fault is still currently logged and there is a fault) or if it's "history" (the fault is an old code that was stored and never cleared)but may have been fixed.
Usually bad ground contacts or dirty/corroded terminals are the culprits (especially people that pressure wash engine bays and water gets into the connectors).
Sometimes clearing the fault codes will help.
Disconnecting the battery cable for a few minutes and reconnecting then go for a drive for the ECU to re-learn (only do this if you have the PIN codes for your radio) otherwise your radio is locked out (pin codes maybe in your service books on a sticker------if you are lucky)! And if you don't have the pin code GET THEM from the seller.
The OBDII codes are global so you can look it up on the net and read what the fault is/are and go from there.
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I feel complete vulnerable to rip off here (the same dealer/stealer tried to tell my wife our Falcon needed a $2000 head gasket replacement until I started asking questions >:(). Now I can tell bullshit from clay when talking mechanical issues but Computers.........
I was having a drama with my Isuzu over fueling that we eventually traced back to the diode in the alternator alternator ??? .... however the computer is not normally throw away these days and can be tested for functionality by the maker. Mine was done for free and came back with a nice tested sticker on it.
Thats the difference between Japanese service concept and that of your kindly local Australian car dealer.
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Just called my buddy who is Ford Dealer in NZ and crash hot mechanic in former times.
He told me as follows: like Monaro said, you need PIN code for radio.... then disconect the battery for the night .... he said for some reason if you leave it a bit longer like over night it will power down and reset to limp home mode ..... then when you power it up again it does a reboot and resets all the warning settings.
Also he said paying the dealer $110 for the faults is a good idea, but if you have any doubts you are getting the shaft find another dealer.
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Thanks Marc. I'll try the overnight disconnect trick.
Thanks Monaro and Tony.
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When you disconnect the battery terminals give them a polish up and also the battery posts even if they look clean. cheers pancho.
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As a car repairer, we get this more and more.
I would probably stay clear of the Ford dealer as they have a 'swap it and see' plan that starts with a scan and then they start swapping bits until the problem is solved. Bit by bit it can cost a fortune but that is their 'proceedure'.
Try some freelance mobile guys as they see more types of cars and get a gist of what it is likely to be, it should cost about the same. ($110.00 call out)
Most of the time dropping the battery terminal will clear the code only for it to return shortly thereafter.
A 'check engine light' can be anything from a loose terminal/bad battery connection(most cars now need 13.5V to maintain computer power) to a major fault like failed cat convertor or dodgy auto trans.
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As a car repairer, we get this more and more.
I would probably stay clear of the Ford dealer as they have a 'swap it and see' plan
I'd say that's a pretty big generalisation, EML.
I've worked in 2 Ford dealerships over 10 year period and neither one of them approached problem solving in this way.
Maybe I worked in the only 2 dealersips in the world that didn't, but I'd say those that did would be in the minority based on my experience.
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I know you didn't want to hear this......but cut your losses get rid of it and buy a toyota.
My wife bought a focus (2005 as well) and after spending more time in the dealers workshop than on the road, after 30 000 k's it was gone.
You may fix this problem, but no doubt another will pop up, and another, and another.
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I know you didn't want to hear this......but cut your losses get rid of it and buy a toyota.
My wife bought a focus (2005 as well) and after spending more time in the dealers workshop than on the road, after 30 000 k's it was gone.
You may fix this problem, but no doubt another will pop up, and another, and another.
......or a Nissan :).
You're getting close to my thinking actually.
I asked around when I bought the Focus and it was lumped in with the Toyota's and Nissans - and told to steer clear of the euro's VW's, Citrons, Peugeots, etc etc "Lovely cars but you'll pay for it if there are problems". ::) :P
Actually, my thinking is close to Tony's - stay away from computer controlled cars/engines, clipped together one piece dashboards etc etc. But The Women of the Household (aka They who must be obeyed/placated ;) :D) have their heads turned by bright lights and flashy things - especially Young Miss who is very 'status aware' in all things.
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I had this conversation with my Ford Dealer friend when we were discussing your problem .... he said the Japanese stuff was light years ahead in electrical stuff.
My own experience with two family members who rashly bought BMWs, the engineering is OK but issues with electric windows, air cond and switches was never ending, almost never happens with Japanese cars.
My experience in Japan is Toyota will recall 10 year old vehicles and repair things FOC where they see an issue.
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have their heads turned by bright lights and flashy things - especially Young Miss who is very 'status aware' in all things.
:D yes boy child has Stevens old Holden Rodeo ute, I wonder how long it will be before the SS lowlines get looked at. ::) :P
My bitsamissin goes in with chip problems and then it comes out good again..
Like modern bikes ,,Its a throw away society. and what monaro308 said too.
cheers
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[/quote]
Actually, my thinking is close to Tony's - stay away from computer controlled cars/engines, clipped together one piece dashboards etc etc. But The Women of the Household (aka They who must be obeyed/placated ;) :D) have their heads turned by bright lights and flashy things - especially Young Miss who is very 'status aware' in all things.
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Easy solution then. Make them pay for it.
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I had this conversation with my Ford Dealer friend when we were discussing your problem .... he said the Japanese stuff was light years ahead in electrical stuff.
Can't speak for Fords but had a similar prob with my X-Trail a few weeks ago. Engine would cut out and the "You're in deep shi%t" light would light up. Took it to a local (non-Nissan) mechie, quick download from the EMS and it was the crank sensor failing intermittantly. $110. That's all.
It may not all be doom and gloom.
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Actually, my thinking is close to Tony's - stay away from computer controlled cars/engines,
Just cos my cars are 35 years old, doesn't mean their not 'computer controlled'. Just reliable! ;) ;D
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I like Fords but not small cars mine is a Ute my sisters is a late model laser my dad has 3 we haven't had any major dramas with any except the one we are doing up. ::)
I had to have brake pads changed ford quoted a motza and the local guy fitted them for under half fords price my mate works for Holden and they don't really fix parts they always replace.
So I think have ford diagnose it and quote you the price and see what your local mechanic can do it for. ;)
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Mark FX you are bang on about beemers, my nephew had a late 90,s 5 series that was an absolutley beautiful car but had one electrical prob after another.
cheers Dale.
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Mark FX you are bang on about beemers, my nephew had a late 90,s 5 series that was an absolutley beautiful car but had one electrical prob after another.
cheers Dale.
Yeah my mother has one against my advice and it has same issues. I told her to buy Toyota Carolla.
If you have ever lived in Europe you start to realize those cars do not have the same mystique as we place on them.
Well lets hope old Nigel is right about MX250s computer.
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As this is what i do for a crust. Just get it code read ,it is most likly somthing setting off the ecu to safe mode. The OBDII code should be spot on on the ford.The ford ECUs do give some issues but mosy of the time it is a external sensor. Also Focus Dash clusters give erronious faults.
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Asasin are you a ford mechanic?
Any else on here had anything to do with Transits (05) ?
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Whats wrong with the Tranny?
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OK,
Do you mean
(A) The Transit.
(B) The Transmission.
(C) The Transvesite.
Whats wrong with the Tranny?
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I had this conversation with my Ford Dealer friend when we were discussing your problem .... he said the Japanese stuff was light years ahead in electrical stuff.
Can't speak for Fords but had a similar prob with my X-Trail a few weeks ago. Engine would cut out and the "You're in deep shi%t" light would light up. Took it to a local (non-Nissan) mechie, quick download from the EMS and it was the crank sensor failing intermittantly. $110. That's all.
It may not all be doom and gloom.
And to add insult to injury on the X-Trail, if you went to a Nissan dealer and had it looked at it wouldn't have cost you anything as the CMPS & CKPS are covered under a recall campaign.
Power & earths, that what causes 99% of the DTC's in vehicles nowdays.
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Obviously you wheren't an (A) grade student?
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also on a lot of these cars the computer analyises everything but itself. Bought my Dad an older model Verada - Mitsubishi - all the problems were traced back to a faulty CPU - bought a second hand one and not a drama since. A lot of the computer systems appear to be Bosch - Bosch will charge half the price of Ford/Holden to diagnose a problem.
Hope it helps???????????????
Rossco
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Had the friendly neighbourhood mobile mechanic do a diagnostic this morning - it is 'fly by wire' throttle and there is some fault between the pedal and the throttle body. It's assumed the pedal is faulty - it feels 'notchy'. $150, depending on availability, installed maybe today maybe tomorrow.
Thanks for your help and comments.