OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: 090 on August 01, 2010, 09:16:41 pm
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Seems the ATO wants my details as I have supposedly sold more than $20000 over a financial year. If you sell four decent bikes over a year period then look out. I started a second ebay name as I was worried about that, but it seems I am too late. Beware!
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Wow, ive never heard of this before. How does the ATO find out how much youve sold on ebay?
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Interesting. I'm no tax expert (Turtle, are you there?), but it seems likely that if selling bikes is considered income by the ATO, then the cost of rebuilding them is a tax deduction.
I'm sure that this would work out well for us, not the ATO....
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Turds, thats all I can say. I note that in last weeks news they are going to crack down on companies selling products on Ebay & making sure they are paying the right tax, there is no escape. Isnt there more important people to target than the Mr Nice Guy ???
Good luck mate >:(
Mrs Maico #54
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Hello 090brad ([email protected]),
eBay has received a request from the Australian Taxation Office (ATO) for information relating to members of www.ebay.com.au who had sales greater than AU $20,000 in any given year during the period 1 July 2007 to 30 June 2009.
Our records reflect that you had sales greater than AU $20,000 in at least one of these financial years. As a result, the ATO has requested the following information:
• Contact name and user ID
• Email Address and IP Address
• Company /Business Number and ABN
• Address
• Telephone numbers
• Date of Birth
• Registration Date
• Banking Account Details
• Monthly sales for the period 1 July 2007 – 30 June 2009
We can confirm that eBay has and will continue to work with the ATO to provide them with the information we are legally required to provide. Disclosure of this information is permitted in accordance with our Privacy Policy. eBay will be the ones to provide this information to the ATO.
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Wow, this could get very interesting. My accountant forecast this a year ago but I thought she was full of shit. There are ways of covering your trail but like Brad says, he was a bit late for this audit.
Hang in there mate and keep us up to speed. I do a lot of eBay trade myself so I'm very interested to see where this is headed. Good luck Brad.
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I think Nathan's on the ball here.
I've always kept documentation on everything I've spent on my bikes and cars, but that's just cos I've got some obsessive-compulsive thing.... :-\
It seems that might be a good thing if Brad's experience is a trend.
btw Are you 100% sure that this is a genuine email??
"Hello" isn't a standard greeting from eBay. Just another thought before you hand over all your details.
Edit: upon reading again, it looks suspect. Why would they ask for your eBay user name????
And bank details?? I could be wrong, but be careful!
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Hello 090brad ([email protected]),
eBay has received a request from the Australian Taxation Office (ATO) for information relating to members of www.ebay.com.au who had sales greater than AU $20,000 in any given year during the period 1 July 2007 to 30 June 2009.
Our records reflect that you had sales greater than AU $20,000 in at least one of these financial years. As a result, the ATO has requested the following information:
• Contact name and user ID
• Email Address and IP Address
• Company /Business Number and ABN
• Address
• Telephone numbers
• Date of Birth
• Registration Date
• Banking Account Details
• Monthly sales for the period 1 July 2007 – 30 June 2009
We can confirm that eBay has and will continue to work with the ATO to provide them with the information we are legally required to provide. Disclosure of this information is permitted in accordance with our Privacy Policy. eBay will be the ones to provide this information to the ATO.
be stuffed with that- I'm with TonyT I'd delete it and wait for the hard copy to come in the mail from ATO.
Too suss for us Steven and Alison WA
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btw Are you 100% sure that this is a genuine email??
Yes, ask them for their Mothers maiden name and their first school name before you hand over any details.
I did recently when they wanted some details for something else, it stumped them when they had to prove who they were ;D
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genuine ones should be green usually and they don't say hello and the say do not reply to this email when you register for ebay you need to use a landline so ebay knows that if the ATO wanted to ring you they can very suss.
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Brad, forward the email to [email protected] and they'll tell you if it's phishing or not. I hope it's a phony but I suspect it could well be real. My cousin told me a few minutes ago that she read in the paper that the ATO was going to crack down on eBay tax dodges. http://pages.ebay.com/education/spooftutorial/ (http://pages.ebay.com/education/spooftutorial/)
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Give it time ATO they will want tax when your having a garage sale. I rang ebay, they are sending documentation to ATO, it wrong, bloody wrong, ebay told me to see your accountant. we all pay taxes every bloody week, so the rest of you money you have earnt is yours to freely do what you like with it.
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You pay tax on money you earn then spend it and you are hit up again for more.
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a genuine Ebay message will show on your ebay page.Dont respond to any email about Ebay or Paypal without checking your Ebay or Paypal page first .If its not there its a hox .Get me all the time.
But actually some friends in the US have had to deal with this issue already so I guess in time it will be here as well.
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ATO was sniffing around swapmeets a few years back,mainly the registered dealers i guess,be different making a living from selling on e bay to just normall culling of the collection??, :P
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eBay will be the ones to provide this information to the ATO.
This kinda rules it out as a phishing exercise - unless its a sophisticated one that will try to reel you in later.
On face value, the email is a courtesy, nothing more or less. It also makes sense that the ATO wants stuff like IP address, because that makes multiple accounts harder to hide. I'll bet that if you lived with someone else who was selling lots of similar items on Epay, that you'd both get a 'please explain' from the ATO.
Like it or not, income is income and its all taxable. There's obviously enough people making decent money on Epay for the ATO to pay attention to it. The flip side is, as I said earlier, that I reckon it will also make the costs incurred in earning that income deductable, and most of us will come out in front.
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Tony T is on the ball!. I get fake Paypal and ebay emails all the time, but theres usually one thing that makes them easy to spot. I Guess if you dont sell much at all on ebay you will be right if it is true. Any email asking for you IP addess is pretty dodgy to me. If it was that important/serious i reckon ebay would phone you.
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there was a artical in the melbourne ,herald sun news paper that ebay accounts was a target for the ato this year
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http://search.news.com.au/search?us=ndmheraldsun&as=HWT&q=ebay+ato
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It's been on the news.....
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I could well still be wrong, but I'm not convinced. :-\
I know it's a minor thing, but nearly every scam email I get starts with 'Hello' or 'Greetings'.
I've looked back and every one of my eBay email start with 'Hi' then my first name or user name only. Never my user name and email address.
You can right-click and take a look at the properties of the email which should give you some clue as to whether this is genuine or not.
Or hover your mouse over any links on the page and see if they are correct as well.
Apologies if I'm putting you off course.
Better safe than sorry, though.
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Brad if you are truly concerned about it, then contact the ATO and ask them.
They are just trying to catch out businesses who are avoiding tax via their eBay transactions. As an individual you don't have to worry about GST on your eBay transactions. I am not aware that they have changed the rules and inserted a $ limit on transactions, but again the ATO will answer your questions.
Find out the facts, and then share them with the rest of the forum.
VMX42
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Unless you get an official letter in writing from the ATO addressed to you or your authorised representative, forget about it and do not in any circumstances respond.
You have to make the decision if you are carrying on a business or soley carrying on a hobby, one question asked is will you carry on the enterprise for a view to profit ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Not likely ::)
It should be noted that a whole new ball game is opened up under the capital gains tax regime :-X
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How the f&#k can the ruptured arseholes claim tax on dollars which have been spent after you already paid tax. Surely this is friggin unlawful? If it is the case then I am sure many invoices can be raised for the cost to get those bikes ready for sale and then the f*&^ers might have to pay you tax, wouldnt that piss them off...
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i do a bit on ebay yes it dosnt take much to put you over 20000.00.i got one of these letters a couple of yrs ago i just ignored it.nothing happened.but here is an interesting one for you.in qld any way sell any vehicle/2nd hand parts for profit and you need a dealers lic.a friend of mine just got done cost him 6000.00,plus court costs plus the cost of a very exspensive lawyer,could have been upto 150000.00.office of fair trading is currently going thru the auctions for all buyer details so if you do a bit of buying and selling be aware
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Some years ago I had been selling old earth moving equipment for a mate on ebay when I received a message from ebay through their message system telling me that the ATO were investigating any member who exceeds $50,000 sales in a year. They advised me that I was getting close to this figure and to be aware of a possible contact from the ATO if I continued that year. I stopped at about $46,000 and haven't heard anything from them. This was about 6 or 7 years ago.
Stan.
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I got one too, my response goes something like this: Well ATO man, I'm 48 years old and been collecting bikes since I was 15, now due to the ever increasing cost of living, I'm forced to sell some of my collection to help keep you and some of the other wolves away from the door, so F&*K off!
K
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I am stopping too. l also have been selling friends and family bikes, so that is added to my list.
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I got one too, my response goes something like this: Well ATO man, I'm 48 years old and been collecting bikes since I was 15, now due to the ever increasing cost of living, I'm forced to sell some of my collection to help keep you and some of the other wolves away from the door, so F&*K off!
K
Thats it K , same here.
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Did you send the email to [email protected] Brad? It's imperative you work out whether the email is phishing before you go any further. Like most, I think it's right but you never know. I've got two separate eBay accounts, one for selling stuff separate to my VMX hobby, the other one using my Firko nom de plume that I buy with and for selling bike and car stuff. I wonder if the ATO bases their 20k limit on the one account or the sum of all accounts?
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Very simple answer, delete it. No government department can request any details from any person unless it is by hard copy. Pure Nigerian scam work. Check the email address, bet it's not something like ato.gov.au, more likely gmail or hotmail or some unheard of email address
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Tossa, the email is from eBay informing him that the ATO has approached them, not from the ATO itself. eBay rarely if ever sends hard copy snail mail. Everything they do is via email. The ATO however nearly always will contact you via snail mail letter.
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Its not a scam, I have spoken to Ebay and ATO this morning and it is happening as we speak. For anyone interested, any information provided to the ATO by a 3rd party must also be provided to you on request. I just spoke to ebay re this point and they advised that if you ring and make the request they will send out the info.
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I got the very same email as 090 over the weekend and yes it also came via my ebay
and the same email to my email in box. It states that ebay will supply the ATO with
your personal information, no need for you to do anything at this time.
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I just spoke to ebay re this point and they advised that if you ring and make the request they will send out the info.
This lazy ass attitude erk's me :( YOU ring,cant they get off there fat lazy ass and take the hard copies to the Post Office anymore.
Evil bay alright-all done by Email, so they can keep racking in the money.
We also keep getting emails from paypal,saying we need to bump up our credit as our limits getting higher-I just keep deleting-If we are a good customer and keep spending are they going to write us off ,I think not.
Money hunger gitts :( ,,,,but then again its handy for vmx 8)
cheers ;D
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I have found out a bit more info, apparently they are looking for people that have a ebay account and an ABN to catch out businesses selling thru private accounts
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I thought that if it was under $50K per year turnover (that number may have changed) it could be classed as a hoobby and not a business as was mentioned here also? Therefore no tax problems?
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e also keep getting emails from paypal,saying we need to bump up our credit as our limits getting higher-I just keep deleting-If we are a good customer and keep spending are they going to write us off ,I think not.
I've been an eBay member since 1999 and with PayPal since its inception and have never been asked to pump up my credit. I'd strongly suggest that those requests are most definitely phishing expeditions and you're doing the right thing in deleting them. Every email I receive from eBay or PayPal is automatically scanned through the [email protected] and [email protected] services and 90% of them are scams. Never open an email from either eBay or Paypal without checking them first.
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From ATO website
Cheers
Online selling data matching
How we collect data
We have obtained data from eBay Australia and Trading Post Australia to assess the level of taxation compliance of individuals and businesses that sell goods or services online.
The data identifies members of online selling sites who are involved in selling goods and services of a total value greater than $20,000 in any of the past three financial years - 2007-08, 2008-09 and 2009-10.
How we use data
We use this data to improve compliance with tax obligations of particular groups of taxpayers. This allows us to:
identify individuals and businesses that don’t report or under report their sales
identify individuals and businesses that operate ‘off the books’ and avoid their obligations by not registering, lodging returns or making payments
better understand and address the compliance behaviour of taxpayers involved in online selling
increase community awareness of the ways we use data matching to address tax compliance
protect honest taxpayers, by deterring, detecting and dealing with those who have not complied.
We will contact individuals and businesses that we identify as at risk of running part of their business off the books or in other ways not reporting all their income. We will encourage them to make a voluntary disclosure of any under reported amounts.
Where appropriate the data will be used to support default assessments of a businesses’ tax liabilities.
How we match data
This data is electronically matched with our own data to identify individuals and businesses who are:
participating in the cash economy
non-compliant with registration requirements
not reporting or under reporting sales
not meeting their lodgment and payment obligations under tax law.
For more information about your tax obligations as a small business operator, refer to Small business support (NAT 73320).
O site
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The way you tell if it's an ebay email is they will address it with your ebay name then put your actual name in brackets beside it
ie; Brad090 (Brad von barrello) if thats how you spell your name :)
If it says anything else then it's a hoax. I have been through ebay with this before and they always say check the heading first.
Check your genuine ebay emails and you'll see what I mean.
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mine said, Hello albrid-3 ([email protected] ), is this a scam.
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Been a member since 2000, never been asked the same.
Tossa, the email is from eBay informing him that the ATO has approached them, not from the ATO itself. eBay rarely if ever sends hard copy snail mail. Everything they do is via email. The ATO however nearly always will contact you via snail mail letter.
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mine said, Hello albrid-3 ([email protected] ), is this a scam.
Yes, if it came from ebay it would say, Hello Your actual name here (Albrid=3)
Best thing to do is go back through your emails and find a message you know is from ebay and see what I mean.
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I thought that if it was under $50K per year turnover (that number may have changed) it could be classed as a hoobby and not a business as was mentioned here also? Therefore no tax problems?
$ 50k is only for G.S.T registration, you will still need to pay income tax on a "hobby" registered as a business.
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my name isn`t there on the email, l don`t have a registered business, l have sold bike for mates and family and its not an income.
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The emails are suss, the Australian Taxation Office $20000+ ebay and "Trading Post" type sales audits are REAL. If your have been just " cleaning out the shed one year and can prove same, you will find a ruling of no taxation in your favour. If you have been trading and selling Bikes or items for a profit* , yes even "family and friends items" or have an ABN good luck. >:(
*profit.... Hmmm you got to prove it was good luck that you purchased the items some time ago and now they sold for a profit. If your have been actively buying and selling bikes, road registrable or NOT or parts and pieces then a short time, like less than ..five years...!!! later .You may find yourself in deep do do.
AHH but I have been paying tax as I have been working you might squeal .... stiff shit ....... compliments of Australia's capital gains tax regimes.... Understand , so see your Tax Professional (if you have one) if queried by the ATO.
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AHH but I have been paying tax as I have been working you might squeal .... stiff shit ....... compliments of Australias capital gains tax regimes.... Understand see your Tax Professional (if you have one) if queried by the ATO.
Capital gains tax introduced 19th Septemebr 1985, Ive owned all my VMXers pre this date, havent you :D
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AHH but I have been paying tax as I have been working you might squeal .... stiff shit ....... compliments of Australias capital gains tax regimes.... Understand see your Tax Professional (if you have one) if queried by the ATO.
Capital gains tax introduced 19th Septemebr 1985, Ive owned all my VMXers pre this date, havent you :D
Hallelujah Brother- long live anything pre85 8)
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OF COURSE!!!! ;) well actually the few I have now um yes ; 8) Cheers Tim754
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It is a legit email that is in my ebay in box. It is simply stating that all of my information will be forwarded onto the ATO.
It also says not to respond to this email as it won't be read. A phishing email just goes to your address and won't show up in my ebay.
Plus they will ask you for info or they will put in links if its fake.
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I was told to have a look in the community section and click on 'hot topics'.
It IS a hot topic atm.
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It IS a hot topic atm
unless you're a budget racer who's learnt to fall through the gaps ;D pain in the arse if you're not ::)
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Don' sell your big ticket items on ebay 8)
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Same for website-forums shoey, sometime back I had a new member sign up on my forum and they had the Australian Tax Office as there email so I guess they are watching on the forums to.
I was just listening to the ABC Radio and they where talking Tax, someone rang in and asked about selling on ebay, the person said they are going to be selling a few old things and the accountants on the radio said if it go's over $10,000 in one sale or even a lot sale of items they will be looking at you and more so if you sell a lot of antique items,,,vintage bikes-cars I would think fit into that,,,,it will be interesting to see how this all turns out over time.
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I read somewhere once that there is no capital gains tax on motorcycles. however buying and selling for profit is a different matter. Looks like swap meets might liven up a bit now.
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Capital gains tax introduced 19th Septemebr 1985, Ive owned all my VMXers pre this date, havent you and i only have one current modern and its not forsale 8)
Talk to the Turtle or another good accountant "like him"
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It IS a hot topic atm.
I don't dispute that it is a hot topic, but like most 'hot topics' it is short on facts and big on paranoia.
It doesn't take blind freddy to see that the intention of the new ATO focus on eBay style trading is to catch out the individuals that are effectively running a business without paying the proper tax and gst. It is not illegal to sell a motorcycle or parts on eBay, and as an individual [and not a business] there are no tax implications. But it would be up to the individual to prove that their sales are just part of a hobby and not a money making operation.
The ATO method of looking at your total dollar spend on eBay is just a way of narrowing the search while trying to close another loophole in the Black Economy. Does this mean that the ATO won't ask you questions? Only time will tell, but we can all see individuals and companies on eBay that are obviously running a business, and I would be pretty sure that these are the people the tax office is really after.
Putting the fear of God into VMXers enjoying their hobby is just an added bonus of their actions.
If you have bought and sold bits and pieces for your projects, then I would think that you have no problem. If you bought a 'job lot of parts' with the sole intention of selling them on via eBay for a profit, then that is another matter - and I would contact your accountant… :o
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Putting the fear of God into VMXers enjoying their hobby is just an added bonus of their actions.
;D
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I just got the details of what Ebay had provided to the ATO on me. All they are providing is the dollar total and number of items, not an itemised account of individual items.
I can't see how they can come to any conclusions from that info??
My guess is they will just be sending out their standard "Are you doing the right thing" letter rather than active auditing
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Capital gains on VMX bikes would not exist unless it was a CCM or metisse or something a bit rare and exotic, hence the $10000 rule so if you sell a boat of something of the like, watch out
The ATO defines a personal use asset as follows
Personal use assets
A personal use asset is:
a CGT asset, other than a collectable, that is used or kept mainly for the personal use or enjoyment of you or your associate(s)
an option, or a right, to acquire a personal use asset
a debt resulting from a CGT event involving a CGT asset kept mainly for your personal use and enjoyment, or
a debt resulting from you doing something other than gaining or producing your assessable income or carrying on a business (for example, the debt arising from a private loan that you made to a family member or friend).
Personal use assets may include such items as boats, furniture, electrical goods and household items. Land and buildings are not personal use assets. Any capital loss you make from a personal use asset is disregarded.
If a CGT event happened to a personal use asset, you disregard any capital gain you make from the asset if you acquired the asset for $10,000 or less.
If you dispose of personal use assets individually that would usually be sold as a set, you get the exemption only if you acquired the set for $10,000 or less.
Clear as mud ;)
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These are pretty much the questions the ato will ask you in the event of an audit, probably from behind bars if your a queenslander :'(
When your activity commenced.
A description of your activity.
A copy of your business plan.
A copy of profit and loss statements (that is, income and expenses).
Projected profit and loss statements showing how you intend to make a profit from your activity.
Details of equipment and facilities you use in your activity (including depreciation schedules).
The records you keep in respect of your activity.
Any qualifications or expertise you possess in respect of your activity.
Details of any relevant organisations you are a member of (include any relevant publications you subscribe to).
Any professional or expert advice you have sought in setting up or conducting your activity.
Copies of any relevant licences, government approvals, planning permits etc. you have obtained or applied for.
Your main clientele (for example, general public, friends or workmates)
How you advertise your products or services.
How much time you spend on this activity each week.
Whether you are engage in employment or another business activity and the amount of time you spend on these activities each week.
Chances are some of these would apply to most users on the forum but it pays to be informed beforehand ;) You can always apply to the ATO for a private ruling and then you will be covered going forward at least
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Hi guys i just got the same email,ive been collecting bikes since 1999,ive sold a lot in the last couple of years, now who knows if where in trouble or not i spent some time out of work,and sold alot of projects on ebay as i needed money interesting what happens from here!!!!!!!!!!..
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Geeeez, I better sell all the mega twos before they hit $20K :D :D ;D :D ;D :D :D