OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Vintage Track => Topic started by: pancho on July 25, 2010, 01:35:58 pm
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When did the first sliders appear in OZ? I suspect the first copies of the English grass-track machines started with back yard specials and such circa '64. or maybe '63? Good authority says 'Herb' Jeffo rode a gen. Hagon in Jan '64. Kerr specials were seen I believe from later '64, and probably " Squeeky" Wyman rode the Geoff Coombes built slider about then. Who's memory still works?
Cheers pancho.
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hagon japs were around in 1965
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Depends what you mean by sliders.
This is my Dad and Uncle in 1952 or 53.
Sorry about the photo , copy of a really big one, done really badly. :)
(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx172/mike52_photo/Temp/dad.jpg)
This has a interesting motor.
A 500cc overhead cam AJS.
Motor is now in a museum in QLD.
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Good question Pancho, my memory from stories heard is that Ray Owen down south and Herb Jeffo up this away were pretty well the first and I think Squeeky may have bought a couple back from England.
I've sent the question to Les Burdus who has a great recolection of those days so I'll keep you posted.
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Mike 52 that's a great image. Anymore like that that.
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there was a story on herb in old bike australia mabe firko can ask jim scasbrooke for som info i had the mag but cant find it
jim
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I was talking to Vic McTaggart not long ago and he tells of Paul Spooner (I think :-\) importing a Hagon grass tracker in in the mid sixties and it wasn't very long before everyone was copying it and then copying the copies. Vic reckons he had one of the first copies in the mid sixties.
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Hey mike52 that is a great shot! pancho.
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Some-one else who would probably have a clue would Daryl Butler, where are you these days Daryl?-pancho.
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Do you mean Solo's?
The first ever speedway meeting was held here in Australia at Maitland NSW in 1923, and using a Model T ford as the track groomer, I have a mate who's grandfather was there when the track was being built, here is some info from Wikipedia on it.
The first speedway meeting, as reported in the Maitland Mercury newspaper, took place on 15 December 1923 at the Maitland Showground in the Lower Hunter Valley, New South Wales, Australia. There is evidence that there may have been earlier meetings in Australia and broadsiding on small dirt tracks had been practised in America since before World War I. A rider named Don Johns was known to have done this before 1914. It was said that he would ride the entire race course wide open, throwing great showers of dirt into the air at each turn.[citation needed] His style of cornering was followed in the United States by riders such as Albert "Shrimp" Burns, Maldwyn Jones and Eddie Brinck well before 1923. The first meeting in the United Kingdom took place at High Beech on 19 February 1928.[2] There are, however, claims that meetings were held in 1927 at Camberley, Surrey and Droylsden, Lancashire. Despite being described as "the first British Dirt Track meeting" at the time, the meeting at Camberley on 7 May 1927 differed in that the races were held in a clockwise direction.[3] Races at Droylsden were held in an anti-clockwise direction but it is generally accepted that the sport arrived in the United Kingdom when Australians Billy Galloway and Keith McKay arrived with the intention of introducing speedway to the Northern Hemisphere. Both featured in the 1928 High Beech meeting. The the first speedway meeting in the UK to feature bikes with no brakes and broadsiding round corners on loose dirt was the third meeting held at High Beech on 9 April 1928, where Colin Watson, Alf Medcalf and "Digger" Pugh demonstrated the art for the first time in the UK. Proto speedway was staged in Glasgow at the Olympic Stadium (Glasgow Nelson) on April 9, 1928 and the first fully professional meeting was staged at Celtic Park on April 28, 1928. The first meeting in Wales was staged at Cardiff White City on Boxing Day 1928.
A speedway rider waits at the start gate for his 3 opponentsIn the late 1920s, Australian Colin Stewart of Colac, Victoria won the prestigious Silver Gauntlet. He also achieved success at an international level, racing for Southampton in 1929 and captained the Glasgow in the Northern League in 1930 before moving to Wembley in 1931, for whom he rode in just four matches, averaging 4.00 points per match. He also raced in the 1930 Scottish Championship which was won by Wembley's Harry Whitfield.
The forerunner of the World Championship, the Star Riders' Championship, was inaugurated in Great Britain in 1929 but was split in to two sections as it was felt that the British riders were not yet the equal of the Australians and Americans. Frank Arthur won the Overseas Section and Roger Frogley the British. The following year the two sections were amalgamated and Vic Huxley proved to be the winner.[4] Huxley was also runner-up three times and won the first British Match Race championship in 1931.
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I think Pancho is referring to dirt track sliders Darren. That's a pretty good little speedway history just the same.
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(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/grass%20track.jpg)
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Modern grasstrack - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hpwpomq-mMw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hpwpomq-mMw)
It's reasonably fast :o
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The Big Wigg.
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What a top shot , Firko .
I remember watching Julian race at Griffith in one of the early Pom V Aussie Short Circuit test matches , he was a very quick and , shall we say, forceful rider.
OK . quote from OBA Sept/ Oct '08 article on Herb,
Talking about 1964 " Ray Owen had procured the first Hagon grasstrack chassis to come to Australia, which had been sent from England by parcel post ! Ray installed a 500 JAP and had a replica frame built, into which he slotted a 350 JAP. At Cowra, Ray let Herb have a gallop on the Hagon after the meeting, and Herb instantly knew that this was the competitive edge of the future.
By early 1965, Herb had imported his own Hagon Chassis, into which he installed his trusty 350 BSA engine "
I remember all sorts of creations from the mid to late '60s and early '70s, like the " Philmac Special " , anyone remember that ? and who rode it ?, from memory it was drilled everywhere for lightness and had a AJS or Matchy engine canted forward and , I think, forming the front downtube of the frame.
And then there was a guy we called Tailshaft , cos his frame top tube was a Holden tailshaft and served as his fuel tank.
There were lots more Hagon copies around , some of them a bit more workmanlike than others
I built my first slider in the late '60s , Jim still has the 350 Ariel motor and the frame and then bought Buzz Burrows' Hagon Grassstracker in 1971 , It was an early one, BSA rear wheel and thick frame tubing, I will ask Buzz when he got it but I 'll bet it will be '65 or '66
Fossil
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Mike 52 that's a great image. Anymore like that that.
Na Col, one off, more,s the pity. :'(
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Les's recolection is that Ray Owen and Paul Spooner were the first to bring Hagons to OZ. As Fossil stated, Herb put his 350 BSA into Pauls frame and with his success followed a plethora of copies including one my father made and put a 500 engine made up of various makes and was called " The Thing".
Les said that the new frames and tracks that followed didn't suit his riding style.
That's pretty much when Billy began riding dads bikes.
I may be wrong but I recall that Soapy Taylor also made his own frames for his beloved Velo's.
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Just yesterday I searched through all my VMX mags looking for that article on "herb" then suddenly it dawned on me that it was in OBA. But I also remembered to look up the story on the Kerr machinery from WA. The Kerr framed machines apparently appeared later in '64. The first time I saw one was at Nepean but I think it was a fair bit later. What E74 was quoting from reminds me of a book I have some where written about Australian speedway. It seemed to have only a limited run, due I believe to faulty binding but mine's intact but hiding amongst a mess. I think Les was more at home on a duplex BSA. Ask him what happens if your foot slips of the foot rest and hits the ground!---at Moorebank. cheers pancho.
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Hey Wally
You mentioned Squeeky Whyman in your earlier post, I saw him ride at Old Bar on a Hagon framed Emmot , or is it Emmett ? Matchless, it went like a rocket.
OBA also ran an article on Ray Owen, with some good grasstrack and dirtrack shots , in there was a photo of Ray riding the Hagon JAP at a scramble meeting !!! , he had obviously just landed after a jump, the JAP crankcase had hit the ground , nearly throwing him off, his backside was about 2 foot off the seat, apparently he went on to win the event, mad bastard !!.
Anyway the Phillmac Special I wrote about , do you remember the bike and who rode it ??
Fossil
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Here's an old relic from the 60s we uncovered. An Elstar BSA. No idea of its history.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/103ick6.jpg)
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the remains of the philmac matchless were for sale at bendigo swap few years back,George Campbell (melbourne)bought the spare crank there,& Peter Campbell (Golburne) has either the Philmac Velo's engine (i think),or the frame,pretty sure it's the motor!, :P
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Thanks for that, Mick , I'll have a yarn with PC and see what he's got. I will try to get photos of whatever he has . Do you know who rode the Philmac Special ? was the name a combination of a first name and surname ?
Foss
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That's my Elstar Firko, 350 BSA as ridden by Billy & Carl.
It's the bike that Teeboned Ian Burkett at Amaroo, there are 2 photos in the Foto thread.
Carl got a third on it at the OZ titles in St Kilda STH OZ in 69 or 70 as a 17 year old.
Ian reckons it was a " Biggen " but I've checked and its not.
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I saw the race number on the Elstar BSA and did wonder if it was the bike Carlos was on at Amaroo, now you know its history, Firko , good one
OK, Early slider
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab106/JAP454/Short%20Circuit/Ariel_Slider.jpg)
Me first slider,this is the Ariel Jim has , Art Senior 350 motor with some later Sid Willis modifications, frame cut off at the seat tube and a new front end made by me on me back verandah , rear end cut and shut , bantam forks and front wheel , rotrax tank.
Me daughter in the photo is now a 40 something mother of 4, how time flys !!
Fossil
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think Philmac is still trading,(mowers/chainsaws now) in Taree,well they were last time i looked ::),probably original blokes have long retired,new owners kept the trading name,some one might know,any taree locals??, :P
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hat's my Elstar Firko, 350 BSA as ridden by Billy & Carl.
It's the bike that Teeboned Ian Burkett at Amaroo, there are 2 photos in the Foto thread.
Carl got a third on it at the OZ titles in St Kilda STH OZ in 69 or 70 as a 17 year old.
Ian reckons it was a " Biggen " but I've checked and its not.
I had a feeling it might just have been yours and Carls Steve. Jonesy found the photo somewhere or other and I put it in my Elstar file. Now I can caption it.
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I saw the race number on the Elstar BSA and did wonder if it was the bike Carlos was on at Amaroo, now you know its history, Firko , good one
OK, Early slider
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab106/JAP454/Short%20Circuit/Ariel_Slider.jpg)
Me first slider,this is the Ariel Jim has , Art Senior 350 motor with some later Sid Willis modifications, frame cut off at the seat tube and a new front end made by me on me back verandah , rear end cut and shut , bantam forks and front wheel , rotrax tank.
Me daughter in the photo is now a 40 something mother of 4, how time flys !!
Fossil
Dig the mutton chops.
This picture and caption is an awesome slice of history Fossil.
Thanks for sharing.
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Were you in the Seekers Allan?
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Naah, mate, I was in a world of me own
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yep i have the bike that allan built i live 1.4klm from were that pic was taken in the 60s(bangor nsw).the bike was built in bangor(meani then) and will be rebuilt in bangor.cant take it to were the pic was taken as there is bangor primary school on the spot.
jim
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That a great shot Jap! sometimes the candid shots are the best,your very lucky to have it. cheers
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Thanks , Husky, Its great to still have the photo but it's even better that me Bro , Jim , has the bike and will restore it .
Still have me daughter, when you have sons, you have sons , when you have daughters, you have boomerangs .
OK, more on the Philmac Special:-
Spoke to Peter Campbell this morning , he doesn't have any parts of the bike, however he has been trying to track it, them ?? down for years, he told me that there were about 6 Philmac specials built with various motors . They were built, according to Peter , by Freddy Phillips and Pat Macnamara , apparently they had an engineering business in Penrith, Peter also told me that Brian Carr had a Goldstar engined Philmac, Brian lives at Moruya, however he has lost track of the bike.
'Er Indoors has just granted the funds to go to Nepean on Sunday ,
so,
I'll See Ya at The Skids
Fossil
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Do a bit of grasstracking on school oval.
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Yep , we did that Steve, conned the Shire grader driver to carve a 300 or so yard oval under the power lines where Menai school is now
Foss
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Funny thing Fossil I was just reading through todays posts here and I was thinking Freddy Phillips rode one of those I'm sure then I see you posted that. I was saddened when Fred lost his life on the Northern rd. coming back from a day watching at Oran Park. He was a quiet unassuming good bloke. I met old Fred too ,a gentleman. I remember Fred used one brake on his slider, rear, cable operated, from the right handlebar lever and remember thinking that was odd. cheers pancho. PS Forgot to comment on the trendy mutton chops! a bit bushier than mine of those days!
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An update on Slider history just rec'd from Les Burdus.
In 1967, Les purchased a Hagon frame from Gordon Gausco who bought it home with him from England, which was actually Alf Hagons own bike that he won several of his Grasstrack titles on.
Les then ordered a 4b JAP Engine through Barry Ryan and rode this bike to win the 500cc ( Senior ) Oz title at Calder VIC in 67. Ray Owen finished second to Les in that race with the placings reversed for the Unlimited title.
Les then sold the bike on to Les Lewis from Hay, with the engine eventually ending up in a TQ.
What a history that bike would have today, if still complete.
I would love to track down any more info on the whereabouts or further history of this bike so if anyone out there has contact with Les Lewis, it would be a start.
This is part of the history of Short Circuit that so far has been overshadowed by Road Racing & Scrambles.
Steve
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Don Greigs BSA 350 slider is a prime example of the home built specials that proliferated around the late 1960's and early '70s , Don built the frame , forks , guards, tank and seat plus he even made the handlebars himself, Don is a Dairy farmer from the Far South Coast with an abiding interest in Motorsport, he was a A grader when I first met him at The Terry McDonald Memorial event in Canberra 1972.
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab106/JAP454/Short%20Circuit/Donsslider.jpg)
A few years ago , Leanne Gordon , from Moruya , organised a " Demonstration " of veteran Short Circuit and Speedway bikes and riders at Surfair Speedway, four early Speedway bikes and riders showed and four Short Circuit riders plus bikes , Don Greig, Kevin Patton, Geoff Watson and myself were there, I was on Tony Days Hagon 84s, Don was on the Beezer after many phone calls between Don and I sorting out maggie and clutch problems with the BSA as it had been parked for over 30 years !.
The Speedway boys went out first and had a ball, one rider went past the red flag four times before we could get him to stop, then it was our turn.
Don led off and I followed at a respectful distance ,we were just puttering when, Geoff and Kevin howled past, locked in their own handlebar to handlebar " Parade ", sod this , I thought , I'm off, ducked underneath Don on turn 2, and set off after the other lads, not a chance , Fossil, I was rounding turn four when I heard the howl of a tortured 30 plus year old Dunlop K 70 and the roar of the open piped Beezer, Don shot past, fully sideways , throttle to the stop , big grin showing from his open face helmet.
He said to me , back in the Pits " Y'know , Al, When you passed me, I just HAD to pass you back" ,
To paraphrase the great KR " It came back to him", Don was in his mid '70s at the time, Way to go !!
Hope I havent bored you all
Fossil
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Nothing boring there foss! great pic& great story cheers pancho
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Great Story, once a racer always a racer !
great thread guys, i am really enjoying the pics keep them coming.
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bumpity bump
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Ok , I know it's been a while since anything was posted here but I was forwarded these letters today on the subject of the first sliders, courtesy of Fotohound, which throw a great deal of light on the subject.
This first letter is from Ray Smith in Darwin
Harv,
That outfit rider on number twelve looked like he was having a good time, and I think the riding shirt may set a new fashion. Seriously though, lots of good photos and apparently no serious injuries. Good to be back into it then?
The title winners history, I’ll have a look at again in the light of corrections that have come in. It’s so easy to get history wrong. Then if it gets repeated often enough, it becomes history, including the errors.
Here’s a bit of history. Paul Spooner, the Hagon importer and top short circuit rider in 1960s once told me that he thought Ray Owen may have privately imported a Hagon, shortly before Paul started bringing them in. In Jim Scaysbrook’s book, there is a photo of Ray having just won multiple Victorian Grass Track Titles, some on his ‘new’ Hagon JAP in 1966. So there’s a question mark over when Ray Owen first acquired the Hagon.
The first one I saw race was ridden by Herb Jefferson, using a 350cc BSA engine at the Taree Old Bar event January 1965, and that was the first of the bikes imported by Paul Spooner. Jeffo ran away from the opposition at that event, and soon afterwards all the top riders were using them. Fortunately Herb and Ray are both still around and they would both know for certain who had the first one.
As an aside, I also raced at the January ’65 Taree event, on a 500 Triumph sidecar (not in the top placings). My passenger Mal Christie, and myself, got arrested in a pub on the Saturday night and accused of among other things, riding our race bike on the road outside the circuit. So it was a weekend of ups and downs, but the biggest up was watching Jeffo going hard. He could ride fast on any bike but he cranked it up a notch on that slider, and changed the whole face of short circuit solo racing in just one day.
Cheers
RS in Darwin
I love the bit about being arrested for riding their outfit around the Taree pub !!
The next letter is from Herb
Hi,
I was at a race meeting at Griffith some time in 1964 and Ray Owen had the first Hagon frame with a 350 JAP in it.
After the meeting Ray asked me if i would like to have a few laps on it. I was really impressed with it. Paul spooner was wanting to import them and so I put in my order and over xmas 1964, I put my 350 BSA in it. I denied any knowelge of it and pulled it out at the Old Bar meeting in Jan. 1965 and had a great time.
Everyone asked me what its like and I told them its like riding a broomstick. "I don't know whats going to break first", "I think i'll put the motor back in the BSA duplex frame" etc. So I had it to myself for a fair while then everyone seemed to decide to get one. But the cheats put 500 motors in theirs and that left me "up the creek".
A couple of months later Bill Simpson knocked on my door and told me he had a new ESO motor. What are you going to do with that, Bill? I bought a Hagon frame to put it in. When you going to do all this, Bill? Its done. What are you gonna do with it, Bill? I called down to see if you wanted to ride it. Well, whats it like, Bill? Ohh, you've seen one bike, you've seen them all, haven't you. Ohh I guess so, said Herbie. Why don't you come up and have a look at it, said Bill. Yep, I'll do that, in fact, I'll be up tomorrow night.
Well anyone that's seen Bill's work would know what I seen. A really well built, really highly polished, bike. Almost too clean and polished to ride, well that is almost.
That bike went on to win a lot, and it never stopped on me once. But the part I'm proudest of is that there was a lot of ex riders and bike lovers leaning over the fence with their tongue hanging out. They thought, hey, I'll buy a bike and ask my favourite rider if he wanted to form a team.
Next thing they where in the pits and involved doing something they loved. Then everyone in the pits was laughing and joking.
Cheers,
Herb Jefferson.
Answers a few questions and we were on the right track with the dates
Foss
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Just read your post foss, great history stuff, good to see it all archived in this forum.
cheers pancho.