OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Twinshock Trials => Topic started by: Nathan S on June 02, 2010, 09:57:41 pm
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Today, I ended four years of searching, and bought a frikken TY175B. Its copped a 'modern' paint job with a white frame, all white tank, white fork lowers and black wheels - I never would have done it myself, but I can tolerate it for a ride bike.
Needs tyres, less god-awful wheels (the previous owner painted the whole lot flat black...) and a decent muffler (and I thought that trials bikes were supposed to be quiet!?).
First event is August, and its just down the road from home. :)
Anyhow, the questions are:
Where should I get new mudguards?
What rear shocks are recommended? The current ones are WAY too long (318mm is stock, most people run 340s - but I've got 385mm long shocks!).
Is there a preferred muffler?
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Cool! The older I get, the more I reckon a trials bike would suit me. :-\
Knowing you, it would have been a bargain, so well done. ;D
Got any photos?
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bugger you Nathan.
i owned 3 Ty175's over the years and i just gotta get me another one.
what a ton of fun and the best wheelie machine i've ever owned. standing or sitting.
mine were always stock and that was good enough for me.
i'd probably go a later DT175 CDI set~up just to simplify things a bit and i remember the footpegs were made from some sponge like material.
mudguards?
i think DC do a set for the 175.
shocks?
the wreckers can help. {it's only trials after all}
preffered muffler?
the pipe is full of restriction. gut it if you like while keeping a similar shape/profile then a nice long silencer is good. one of my bikes ran a silencer from a YZ250J as they're reasonably long and quiet on the TY.
my 2 bobs worth.
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Nathan, I wouldn't be without the RL these days ;D Goneli make unversal trials type front and rear guards (Don Newell sells them ;)) Not badly priced either but a bit of trimming maybe required to suit different makes. Could get you out of the poo till something more original comes along :-\ used to be a guy on fleabay (nsw I think) doing fibre glass replica's but I've not looked in ages.
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l am also very keen on trial, and with regrete l sold my Honda TLR 250, but in saying that, the fellow who bought it is having a ball riding it around the trials meeting in camberra. but l will buy another one day.
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Best look up John Cane at www.tytrials.co.uk
He's a great source of parts & can supply a set of new betor gas shocks for under $200, I also bought a wes muffler for my 250 from him & it's nice & quiet & very nicely made
Another place to look is www.sammymillerproducts.co.uk http://www.sammymillerproducts.co.uk/cgi-bin/showpage.fcgi
They don't list a front guard & unfortunately send stuff on fedex which is quick but pricey. Nice quality gear though
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(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f128/annaandnathan/Bikestuff/DSCN0624.jpg)
In this pic, I've added a handlebar cross-brace, new grips, moved the kilswitch and a couple of other things you can't see (made a cage for the airfilter, that sort of thing).
Funnily enough, the RM came with a quite good 18" Michelin trials tyre. Saved me buying a new one...
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Nathan make sure that the rear tyre is the tubed type otherwise it will most likely not stay 'beaded up' on the old TY rims (unless they have been replaced with modern ones). The standard TY175B & C has very narrow rims (except the 'J' ADR version). Tyres are just as important or possibly more so in Trials even though most people don't seem to think so. The good trials tyres such as the Michelin go off very quickly and the side walls stiffen even though the tread seems soft.
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Hi Nathan
The WES end muffler is the best for sound quality, performance and weight
The standard fork tube setting has the tubes protruding 20mm above the top clamp
Budget shocks 340mm Betors with either 40 or 50 pound springs depending on how heavy you are.
High performance shocks Falcon Classic 340mm with 40 or 50.
Replica front guards are available in fibreglass in Australia and in plastic from DC plastics in USA - same as TY250 twinshock.
Good looking alternative front guard is Gonelli generic trials guard and fit it using Sammy Miller Products mount. Mount Gonelli with flap end at front and cut flap off in curve. Let me know if you want to see what this setup looks like and I will send you photos of mine.
Replica rear plastic guards available from a few UK suppliers and B&J Racing in USA
David Lahey
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Thanks gents.
I'm about 90~95kgs in my gear, so I assume I'll need the stiffer springs?
I did read someone advocating 360mm long shocks. Any input from you guys?
WRT the tyre/rim, its about to get a pair rims that are date stamped mid 1982, if that makes any difference. Still a 1.85" wide rear, same as the original that came off the bike. Provided it holds the bead properly, I'm happy enough to run the Michelin, even if it is past its prime - I'm sure it will be better than the 30-year old Dunlop that the bike came with...
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These are popular with trials guys. http://www.rockshocks.co.uk/ Also you should find plenty of parts sources in UK's Classic Dirt Bike magazine
Another guy i would recommend for trials stuff is http://www.stevegoodemotorcycles.co.uk/ he has ebay shop too. Sells universal Stilmotor trials fenders and a heap of other stuff.
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Yes some people fit 360mm shocks and run the fork tubes flush with the top clamp.
This gives more ground clearance but also changes the steering trail which in my opinion stuffs up the steering and increases fork flex.
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OK...
So the bike is geared too tall at the moment (14-45 when stock was 12-49 [according to the parts manuals]).
I can replicate the 12-49 gearing by going to 11-45 using parts from my shed, BUT using a 520 chain.
Remembering that I'm a trials novice, am I really going to notice the extra weight of the 520 chain/sprockets over the 428?
Or is it worth me spending the extra money (that I don't have!) on new 428 bits?
Also, O-ring or non-O-ring chain?
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Yes 12-49 works pretty well in sections.
Where you might come unstuck is with clearance at the front sprocket. I haven't tried it myself and I don't remember ever seeing 520 chain used with those series 125/175 DT/MX/YZ/TY cases.
I think I might have a steel rear 428 you can have if you want for the cost of postage. I'll check what sizes I have if you want to go that way.
Aren't 520 and 428 the same thickness (weight) sprockets anyway?
Even if they are different by a few hundred grams you would probably not notice the difference in weight.
David
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Thanks again. :)
The 520 front works on those motors.
My DT125 racer runs a 520 chain, and YZ125Xes were factory fitted with the 520.
Be happy to go with the 428 if your sprocket is a suitable size. I've got a new 13T (428) front here, FWIW.
O-ring or not?
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OK Nathan there are two steel 428 rears of about the right size you are welcome to either or both.
A is 54 T and will bolt straight on with standard bolts but the teeth are quite worn.
B is 54 T and the mounting holes have been modified to suit countersunk screw heads. It has no detectable wear on the teeth.
They are pretty heavy so would cost a bit to post. I don't know if this suits you but I could get them to Brooweena (early July) or the Aussie Titles - Gold Coast (mid August)
You would be one of very few trials riders with an O-Ring chain of you do fit one. The drag would probably make a difference to the performance on a TY175 and non-o-ring chains and sprockets last many years anyway unless the bike is road ridden. The rear alloy sprocket on the bike I ride the most (a hod-rod TY175) is about 11 years old now and has just started to show signs of wear.
David
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Thanks again David.
For some weird reason, I am now faced with the odd problem of having several new O-ring chains, and no decent non-O-ringers.
Anyhow, I fitted some 340mm long shocks along with the rebuilt rear wheel, and took it for a couple of laps around the back yard. It turns better now (it was previously lacking castor and felt very weird) and the lower gearing makes it MUCH easier to ride.
I'd forgotten how damn loud it is though! That's definitely next on the list of things to fix.
Unspectacular pic that I only took because I was outside with the camera:
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f128/annaandnathan/Bikestuff/DSCN0804.jpg)
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Your unspectacular photo looks fine to me.
I can suggest a couple of things from the photo:
Slide the forks up 20mm through the clamps if you are still using 340mm shocks
Turn the front guard around the other way
Regards
David
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Looks good Nathan. The graphics off a Pinky TY mono?
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Turn the front guard around the other way
OMG -that's so obvious now that you've pointed it out, but I hadn't realised until now. :D
The thing steers far more tightly than my brain can comprehend already. I literally cannot turn the thing on full lock as it is (admittedly without a whole lot of time practising).
Will sliding the forks up make that better or worse? I'd halfway figured that once/if I learned to do that, then it would be time to slide the forks up. Yes/No?
Paul, yeah they're late model stickers *barf*.
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Nathan. If you can't get to lock on a TY you need more body english. Get out in the yard and start doing figure 8's and practise weighting the pegs. Get nice tight turns then! Its great fun and hones the skills.
He He He....guard on backwards ;D exposed on the forum! hehehe LOL
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Canam370 is right. Practice, proper weighting and bike lean will allow you to do the turns as tight as you like. A standard TY175 would have to be the best trials bike ever made for learning how to master tight turns without hopping the front.
About the steering geometry: In my opinion, 340mm shocks and 20mm tube protrusion feels the best with the standard rake. Probably not surprisingly, that is where the factory set them on new bikes and was the setting preferred by Mick Andrews. I suggest you try them at both settings and decide for yourself which feels better.
Here are a few things that may guide you in the process that I wish someone had told me 35 years ago:
Don't try and use the front tyre to turn the bike. Think of it being there just to hold the front of the bike up. Turning comes from you leaning the bike over and keeping it balanced left/right at the same time - use your body mass to weight the footpegs to provide the balance. Your outer leg should carry most of your weight in tightish turns. The inner calf rests against the bike and the outer calf moves away from the bike. Practice the technique with less than full lock until the technique is automatic before moving on to full lock.
Use the rear brake to control the speed of the bike in turns (hold throttle steady and modulate brake to control rear wheel speed). Remember that to do full lock turns the front wheel maintains some speed but the rear wheel has to be almost completely stopped.
Common mistakes for learners in tight turns:
Trying to control the bike speed in turns with the throttle or the clutch
Riding with knees together
Not leaning the bike over enough
Going too fast in turns
There is a good training guide available for free download on the trials.com.au website
David