OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Suzuki => Topic started by: Grunter215 on May 21, 2010, 01:13:12 pm
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Does exhaust on PE400 have restrictors in them? Do RM pipes fit,if so how would they effect the power.
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A PE 400 pipe does have internal baffling, and a RM 400 pipe will not fit.
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RM 400 also has internal baffle.
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you can get a jemco pipe I think alastair maxwell may be the importer for them??? alot of people would be after a 400 pipe though like me. ;)
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Thanks guys.. Its been used for VMX so is it worthwhile taking the restrictor out. If so where exactly is it located?
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best you visits The PE site has the low down on where it is on PE and how to remove it .........ring ring ring calling luke or Leith
Rm 400 are an easier fix all you need to do is cut pipe where it passes under rear of tank .
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Ok, whats inside these pipes is not what i call a baffle or restrictor as such. All it is is some mesh sheet spot welded to the inside 'bulbus' part of the pipe. Its not a series of restrictor plates. Its is primarily in there just to cut down on the 'tinny' sort of noise so the bikes coould get ADR approved. In my opinion its a waste of time to take this out. Just leave it in there. if you really want more performace get a decent modern pipe made by GMC, Lozza or someone thats built to your engine specs. I just dont think its worth it to cut up an original pipe to take that mesh sheet out as its not a huge restriction. So dont keep thinking there a 'restrictor' in there. Restrictors are usually in the form of a airbox lid or snorkel that blocks part of the opeing off, a disc inside the inlet manifold, a disc inside th exhaust manifold/start of the pipe or in the case of some pre 80 PE's a BIG steel washer/disc reducing the pipe ID a lot smaller.
The PE will benefit far more with a decent set of shocks and fork set up than taking the mesh out.
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what Leith said.
cutting up an original PE400 pipe is sub-optimal. Sell it on eBay and buy a pipe from GMC instead.
Luke
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Not sure that not having a restrictor plate is correct. My 78 PE250 had a plate installed in the back end of the chamber, close to the start of the stinger.
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In my last post I have said PE400's dont have restrictor plates (in the guts of the pipe) and that some pre 80 PE's do have a restrictor plate in the middle of the pipe. I have said 'some' as i couldnt remember if it was 78's or 79's or both. Just take a look in the Clymer manual, it shows it in there.
The PE400/250 T/X/Z did have a washer just inside the exhaust pipe as it leaves the barrel but these are all long gone. Everyone took that out the day it was wheeled out the dealers door :)
As Luke said, the original PE400 pipe will be valuable to a restorer, so if you want to muck with it for more performance then look at geting a aftermarket one.
What will help the standard pipe though is to burn ALL of the oil and carbon out. You can often have a 6mm+ thick coating all inside your pipe. I light them up inisde with the oxy then use compressed air gun to blow the fire along the pipe. It leaves the inside so clean you could eat your luch off it. ;D
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Leith , Good point :) burning excess carbon build up from inside of chamber . Just make sure you do it outside in a well vented area ;D no carbon tax payable YET ;D
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As Leith says, a lot of ADR style pipes have that inner perf. sheet inside the chamber. They’re not a baffle as such but are designed to keep the noise down. Some models did come out with the “washer” in the header or stinger but most of them would have been removed very early on.
Some say taking out the perf sheet from inside the chamber makes them run better but I’m not convinced. It’s a lot of work to remove for no real gain.
It’s not like they designed the perfect pipe and then added the inner layer later.
You will often see these ADR style chambers will have a small step in them which is where the inner layer starts/ finish’s.
Burning them out may not be the best either, it’s fine on a normal pipe but these style chambers often have a fiberglass layer in between the 2 skins which would get damaged from the heat.
Isn’t the PE 400 motor a completely different spec to the RM 400 motor or is that only for certain years?
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yes thats right, the PE400 motor is totally different to RM400's. RM pipe wont fit PE400. The RM/PE250 pipe will go a lot closer to fitting the PE400. Its basically just the header length that is a bit different due to the 400's bigger bore spacing the exhaust mount out further, requiring a shorter pipe. I havent tried this my self but a few guys i know with PE250/400's have compared fits of pipes and told me.
Yeah i just burn all the thin packing out between the mesh and the pipe wall, although its mostly already blown/burnt out anyway.
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PE400 is an oversquare barrel same stroke as the 250 and that is why it fits in the 250 frame the barrel is wider than it is tall but I have read in magazines that it held with the rm400 easy when it was stock around the mx track so some good shocks and I reckon it would beat the rm such an easy bike to ride if you fall off the pipe you can get straight back on.
I have got a 400x in my shed that is running a full stock exhaust system and it flies because I believe it has had porting work. :)
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Leith , Good point :) burning excess carbon build up from inside of chamber . Just make sure you do it outside in a well vented area ;D no carbon tax payable YET ;D
didnt we pay that tax when we brought the oil ???
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A while ago I made the mistake of buying a RM 400 T exhaust pipe thinking it would fit a PE 400 that I am building - short story, does anyone want to buy a tidy RM 400 pipe? While I'm taking up this space I should also mention that I am looking for an equally tidy PE 250 X,T pipe if anyone has one.
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How many PE 400 models were thier?
What years did they start & finish?
And how different were the models, regarding pipe fitting anyway?
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How many PE 400 models were thier?
What years did they start & finish?
And how different were the models, regarding pipe fitting anyway?
Only two models Geoff.
1980 PE400T model
1981 PE400X model
The pipes for both models are Identical.
Both models sharing Suzuki part#14310-40900
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Correction, 3 models ;)
80 -T
81 - X
82 - Z
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Correction, 3 models
80 -T
81 - X
82 - Z
I was waiting for it.
Actualy Leith, There was a small run of 1982 PE250Z twin shocks. I have had a 1982 PE250 Z model twin shock here(very rare). But I do not believe there was ever such a thing as a 1982 PE400Z.
A day where I learn something, is always a good day though.
Can you offer anything to support that claim Leith?
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Yep there was/is PE400Z's. Firko has one, FrostyPE has one, theres a couple floating around in UK & Canada. I have sales brochures, parts books, microfiche and owners manuals for 82 PE400Z's. Do you need any more proof? :) I have got a 82PE250 aswell and i know of more aswell.
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I am chasing nos parts for my Z to do it may do it up next should look good. :)
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Yep there was/is PE400Z's. Firko has one, FrostyPE has one, theres a couple floating around in UK & Canada. I have sales brochures, parts books, microfiche and owners manuals for 82 PE400Z's. Do you need any more proof? :) I have got a 82PE250 aswell and i know of more aswell.
Ah well, I just learnt another thing ::)
I would like to know how many they produced? Not too many, I imagine? very rare? what did you say Leith? Firko has one, Frosty has one, two in the UK and another two in Canada? now thats what I call rare. Its no wonder I have never heard of them before.
I am building a 400X model. I have standard cylinder and NOS piston assembly.
But to finish the answer for Geoff? Can you quote the part# for the 1982 PE400z pipe?
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weren't the two aparent ones in uk and canada just talk? or are they accounted for it is easy to restamp things.
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can quote the number for the 400z pipe too just not right now. ;)
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can quote the number for the 400z pipe too just not right now. ;)
Well I am sure Geoff will appreciate that frosty.
By the way, I found that disk on PEs two days ago, the one I promised you last melenium Frosty::) I still have your post details too.
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Well i will have to open up a brand new unopened 400z Microfiche :o
(http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pE3sRaWA-FYwOf9YXufn8SS0os9CWAvvuAgxEjSESxNYJTDf7AZeKnM61GEmXnjWHSISvzsYp92tQ4LASoprkLw/P5240170.JPG)
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Frosty, there has been several PE400Z's in Canada. I have bought forks and headlight and other parts off one. More than 2 thats for sure. There is a couple in UK aswell, but some of the owners dont realise they have 82's and think they are 81's. I also have UK dealer ads cut out of magazines for 82's aswell.
a PE400 Z in UK cost 949 Pounds when new!
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Quick story, about the PE250Z I found for dear friend Marko.
$350 it was. Of we went to the big smoke, to collect it. On the way home we stopped for break and drooled all over our latest acquisition. “hey Marko, checkout the plate, it was made in 1982!”. “NO WAY” My mate Marko the Suzuki expert screeched. “1982 models weren’t twin shockers!” "well maybe its really rare or somethin Marko“ "Nuh nuh nuh! I have been...&*^$@# robbed” .... Naturally, I shut up then to preserve the relationship(ungratefull F*(k). I suppose everyone likes to think they are good at something ;D ;D ;D.
Any how circumstances changed for Marko, and He sold it. To a bloke on this forum actually, who realized it was indeed one of the rare, last run of PE250 twin shockers(I have a feeling he may have advertised it on this forum, and on sold it again ??? unsure).
Arh well you get the picture, Marko still hangs his head and shakes it, every time I bring it up ;D :'( :'( ;D
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ok cool thank you. ;)
I remember you talking about those Leith if you bought parts off it I wonder where the rest went?? But I'd have to say Firko's is a much better example than mine I will have to restore mine it has been a racer by the looks of it not that it is that bad just cosmetic really so a full strip and rebuild is in order like my gt80.
Only problem will be parts that are NLA I tried to buy the Z stand and that has superceeded and you can only get the T/X style even if you order with the Z part number luckily I can still get most the things I need but on the list to find will be mainly plastics.
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My 82 was made in Februrary 1982 so was probably one of the last batch? By the way No one knows production numbers of 82's. We have been down this road before and its impossible to find out. There may be a slight chance that someone could ask somone at Japan and say its important to know for a magazine feature, but otherwise Suzuki Japan couldnt be bothered. Ive been told they really dont give a stuff about anything old. Its all about pumping out the latest models and answering a question on production runs would not be their top priorty. It probably only requires a quick look up in a book or database, but its sad i know. We can only Speculate.
Frosty, i think i still have the details of the seller i bought the Z parts off, but it would take hours to find. I bought the stuff 3+ years ago. I remember i wanted the forks because the Z forks are more updated than the 80/81. There was stuff all left though frosty, it got all parted out on ebay, there was only stuffed sidecovers and a few bits left and nothing you cant already find in Australia or on US ebay. Thats right i bought the speedo off it too. And before anyone asks 'whats the differences between 81 and 82?' I have answered this several times on here and www.endurobiketalk.com and there are lists of all the differences done already. Use search function up top ;D
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do they still have all there drawings and molds they used to make parts with how would you find out I spose you couldn't.
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Also is it possible to fit the 400 pipe onto 250 txz I know the muffler will the is a 175 muffler on one of my 400's don't ask me why I didn't do it. ;)
just thinking going to lend Geoff my 400x to make a pipe for and then if it were to fit a few models he'd be able to do one pipe for a few bikes muffler too.
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Frosty you can start your mission by googling 'Suzuki Motor corp japan' and then try and work your way through the departments. I believe they would still have the moulds.
Someone told me that if enough people inquire about parts at suzuki dealers, the info gets sent back to japan and if there is enough interest they will start to make some more parts again and do a run of PE fenders.....yeah we wish :D, yeah seriously, i heard thats what they do if theres enough interest.
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Yes frosty, There is stuff all difference between 250 and 400 pipes. Just different length header out the port. A 250 pipe would need a piece trimmed off to fit in the 400 ex port.
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I would like to get the moulds but slim chance I'd think if only had a contact with in suzuki I have found yamaha very easy to deal with in the spares department.
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I've got an 82 PE400Z and it's going to CD7.
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so out of a complete bike what parts are made "in house" ???like they dont make forks,shocks,wheels,bearings,seals,pistons and rings,electrics,chains,speedo's and i'm sure theres alot more parts to add to the list
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I think they make there own plastics. ::)\
Don't know if the make much else.
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Quick story, about the PE250Z I found for dear friend Marko.
Any how circumstances changed for Marko, and He sold it. To a bloke on this forum actually, who realized it was indeed one of the rare, last run of PE250 twin shockers(I have a feeling he may have advertised it on this forum, and on sold it again ??? unsure).
Arh well you get the picture, Marko still hangs his head and shakes it, every time I bring it up ;D :'( :'( ;D
It may be the 250Z I bought thru here. Still fiddling with it, but it goes OK. And yes, there aren't many around. ;D
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I'm not sure how far reaching this site / forum is, but just supposing it is read by the Japanese guy that operated the spot welder assembling PE 400's in 1980 - my hats off to you sir! I've just spent 6 hours removing some extremely well fitted "baffles" that tested the resolve of my $25 Chinese grinder. Your welds were un relenting and consistent - well done! FYI the weight saving was 730 grams.
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My 82 was made in Februrary 1982 so was probably one of the last batch? By the way No one knows production numbers of 82's.
Don't know if it helps but mine is a 6/82 build ;D
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okay to bring up an old topic. have a pe400t engine in a rm400t frame. what pipe can i run? pe400 pipe with rm400 silencer?
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Pretty sure the pe 400 one would fit have heard of rm400 pipe used to on a pe400.