OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Introductions => Topic started by: Christo on May 13, 2010, 10:46:41 pm
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I have wanted to build my own bike for a while. A couple of weeks ago I picked up this 1980 Suzuki DR400 which came exactly as pictured.
I want to build a vintage supermoto with 17 inch wheels which I bought last year. Then I came across the 1974 KX450 engine you
see pictured. Will make a very interesting project. The plan is to re-assemble the DR and get it registered before doing the mods.
The KX is a torque monster and quite rare I believe, if anyone has any parts for sale then let me know.
You can check out my blog at http://crispycycles.blogspot.com/ (http://crispycycles.blogspot.com/)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/crispy01-01.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/big-bore-two-01.jpg)
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Welcome -Interesting Blog ..where are you going to be racing ?
cheers west Oz
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hello Christo, I can understand the idea of a motard type conversion for the DR400 and it could be something very special 8) but I can't come to grips with the KX450 transplant :-\ I honestly feel after all the time and effort it wouldn't be a happy combination. A nice DR400 powered DR400 is actually quite collectible in itself. A nicely done motard DR could also be quite desirable. Your project obviously and I look forward to seeing the results whatever you decide ;)
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I'm think I'm going to save the old KX engine for something else. I still have to sources the electrics, carb & exhaust etc.
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Are you aware what a KX450 engine is worth?
The bikes were few and far between and parts even more so. I think you'd find it may be worth some reasonble $'s
My best mate is looking for a crank for one at the moment.
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I reckon a DR400 supermotard would be a ripper. Back in the day me and a few mates had dirt track trail/enduro bikes that we'd ride on the street - my PE250 ran RM cylinder and pipe and 19" front wheel and it was good fun around town. Another mate built this very tidy 1985 XR600 motard.
(http://ozvmx.com/images/forum/dt7.jpg)
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I have done a fair bit of searching on the web for KX450 info and have found some info including an old video on youtube.
It looks like there may be another one in Perth. I see there is an article on the 74 kX450 in the next VMX magazine.
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Graeme thats a very tidy looking xr600 motard. The ideal ride to work bike I reckon. Any chance you can pm me your full name and postage address please Graeme.
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This is what the bike looks like at the moment. I am going to test all the wiring before going any further. I just need to buy a new ignition switch and battery.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/cc01-elec001.jpg)
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While I am waiting for a rectifier to come from Japan, I decided to tackle painting the tank. It was always going to be painted matt black. But what to do with the tank decals?
Seeing as how this is a vintage project I thought it would be appropriate to use some vintage materials. So I am experimenting with the use of wood veneer as a panel on the sides. The lighter colour is teak and the darker one is wenge. I must admit that I did not like it much at first, but it is definitely growing on me.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/CC01-tank-004.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/CC01-tank-013.jpg)
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Mate, your going to the same place as Ji.
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Mate, your going to the same place as Ji.
Yup!
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aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :P
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how did that beach boys song go, I gotta DR400 & they call it a woody surf city here we come
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Hello Christo. Looks like you'll make a nice Job of it if the tank is anything to go by. Makes a nice change to see something a bit different from "the usual" tank finishes. Look forward to seeing the finished result in due course. :)
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Hey Christo, I've got a DR400 that's getting chopped up for a trials type bike, so if you need any bits, I've got all the original gear unmolested. ;)
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WOOD GRAIN, didn`t the yanks have station wagons with that venuer, very 50`s style.
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WOOD GRAIN, didn`t the yanks have station wagons with that venuer, very 50`s style.
Yes I'm using authentic 1950's hotrods as major inspiration in this project.
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I am still waiting for the rectifier to arrive, but all the wiring is completed. A big thanks to David and Cameron for doing all the soldering and cut and shut that was required. I managed to find an older style round headlight (6 volt) and mounting brackets that would do the job.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/roller03.jpg)
As this is a vintage style bike chrome mudguards are definitely the way to go. The rear guard from an XS Yamaha fits like it was made for it. I trimmed down an old plastic guard for the inner half, painted it matt black and bolted it all up. The front guard is from a CX Honda, and the mounting bracket is a mock-up for a trial fitment. See above for the results.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/roller04.jpg)
This is what the bike looks like right now. The front end as it is now is only temporary, only the front guard will remain.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/roller01.jpg)
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:-\ ummm..I assume you're not going with the KX motor Christo?
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No KX motor no!
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This is my latest concept for tank decoration (timber is American Oak) and is inspired by Suzuki TM tank stickers from the 70’s. This is the one I am going to go with (for now).
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/CC01-tank-024.jpg)
http://crispycycles.blogspot.com/
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Thanks to inertia@PSB for donating the rear tyre (yes it is street legal) and after digging through all of my boxes of parts, I found the missing tank rubber today and mounted up the fuel tank. The top image is exactly how the bike looks now, the lower images I have actually photoshopped the seat so it is thinner and improves the lines. My final tank ‘sticker’ does not work so well now. Its kind of lost in the whole thing, so the larger ‘sticker’ seems to work better. Back to the drawing board then.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/crispy01-002aa.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/crispy01-002a.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/crispy01-002b.jpg)
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By sheer luck it turns out that the DR400 and KX250 steering stems have exactly the same bearings, so it will make the fork swap a lot easier. If anyone wants to do a fork swap then I came across this very useful document located at:
http://www.ohiocaferacers.com/OCRStemSizes.pdf
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/KXvsDRstemII.jpg)
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Used my wheel building jig again to build a mock-up of the 5x17inch supermoto rim laced to the standard DR400 hub and a 150/70 street tyre. Looks really ‘tough’ bolted in place and looks like it will fit without too much trouble. Will need to modify the brake torque arm and probably make a spacer for the rear sprocket so the chain clears the tyre. I have also cut and shut the seat which I will recover using some old and some new materials.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/5inch003.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/5inch002.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/5inch001.jpg)
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The right rear corner of the seat was ripped anyway, so I thought I might as well do a cut and shut job on the seat to improve the ‘lines’. The local wrecker was in a generous mood and gave me an old seat for just $5 (probably all its worth) so I could salvage it to repair my seat. I don’t want the seat to look brand new, but still want a custom look. See if you can figure out what I am going to do using the two images as a reference.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/seat-mod-01.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/seat-repair-01.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/seat-logo-1.jpg)
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Well not really, this is my latest concept in photoshop. Still not really happy with it. Will keep going till I am H A P P Y with it…
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/CC01-Oct-003.jpg)
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Make the woodgrain yellow, yellow stripe on the rims, yellow and black shock springs, black seat with yellow top, polish the swingarm to go with the chrome guards, polish the rear hub or paint silver, chrome the brake torque arm and then I think you will be smoking. Can you photo shop a mock up of that?. I reckon a Dakar style exhaust....header following down the frame, under the engine and the muffler angled up at about 45 degrees with the tip facing directly back....bit like a std TT500 but using a titanium muffler off a late model bike....theres plenty on evilpay......shit I should have been a stylist!!! ;D. Hurry up....post up a picture......also add a little hump to the back of the seat...ala cafe racer style. That should keep you busy for a few days.
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something like this Davey?
(http://boospq.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pYJ8r_S5_2vBEpjNfQbkrpW2sRqRWIGdX6PyE5S-xQgkfMjfKrelEqp17R16yzopAlRPhT3n6Cw980btirs4TAvMJ5IvviIBH/dr.jpg?psid=1)
worth a thought..or not ;)
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Close....ditch the yellow guards and tank......flat black tank.....needs the low slung exhaust like the TT500, but a definate improvment ;)
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If this aint Ji, alias "Christo" it must be his brother??? Just a newbie to ozvmx, and so much detail in posting photos. Where has Ji been for so long??? Who elso would would have so much passion & technical know how for a new project? Why is that bike under a blue tarp, could it be one of Ji's YZ's under that?? ;D ;D ;D
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Thanks for all your feedback gents. But I do want this to have a vintage look so I want to keep away from plastics. Actually I love the idea of a cafe style seat hump, will be sure to investigate.
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I finally got round to repairing my seat which I had cut and shut to improve the lines. I took about 25mm off the top and about 75mm off the length. This allowed me to retain the old seat cover, I simply cut the damaged corner off and replaced it with my $5 seat cover which came from a Honda XR250RG. It looks very used, but that was what I wanted and cheap too. Just stuck it all back together with contact adhesive. I was thinking about sticking something else over the join for aesthetics and for additional reinforcement. Maybe a natural brown leather belt?
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/seat-repair-02.jpg)
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Here are all the major engine components laid out on my new work bench, in my new workshop which is the size of a large broom cupboard. This is exactly how I got the engine. Two pistons one standard size in good nick, one piston 050 oversize with some scoring on the exhaust side. Two cylinders, one that has been rebored to about 87mm (standard bore is 85mm) and one rusty one which is ??mm. Two cylinder heads, one with a broken inlet valve (you can see where the valve marked the combustion chamber) and the other with a slightly bent inlet valve. So I suppose you could assume that the engine was disassembled because either a cam chain snapped or the engine was assembled previously with incorrect cam timing and caused the piston to bend the inlet valve. There appears to be no damage in the crankcases where the cam chain runs so I think the cause was the latter. Either way I will still be investing in a new cam chain.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/engine-001.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/engine-002.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/engine-003.jpg)
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I fully built the 5" wide rear wheel with the standard DR hub to satisfy myself (and others) that the hub and rim were compatible. That is all the angles of the spokes are right when laced together. The final build will probably use 5mm spokes rather than 4mm spokes.
I have been quoted $200 to supply the spokes in 5mm stainless steel, as the spokes that came with the wheel are not compatible. I have also been playing with the hub offset to ensure that tyre and chain clearances etc are OK.
Note also the rear tailight assembly with 'beehive' tailight. I am definitely going to swap the plastic indicators for chrome items with round lenses.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/rearmockup-jan2011-04.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/rearmockup-jan2011-01.jpg)
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The brake torque must be cut and shut to clear the 5” wide rim & 150 wide rear tyre.
I simply used an angle grinder to cut slots where I wanted the bend to occur. Once I am happy with the fit I will get it welded properly.
The other photo shows the difference in the brake-torque-arms, the one on the left is the standard one.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/torq-arm003.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/torq-arm002.jpg)
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Finished assembling the 17 x 3.5 inch supermoto rim to the DR drum hub yesterday. The spokes will need to be shortened and re-threaded to suit the DR hub. I fitted the wheel with a 110/60 tyre which goes between the fork legs with about 5mm clearance either side. Will be interesting to see if a 120/60 will fit as recommended for this rim, but I do not think going down a size will matter. I will have to grind off the cable guide mounts on both sides to ensure clearance. Very happy with the result.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/front-wheel-mock-001.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/front-wheel-mock-002.jpg)
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Unfortunately all my efforts to try and mate 17 inch supermoto rims to old school drum hubs have been in vane. It is a bit hard to tell from the photo, but the angle of the spoke holes in the rim is not quite right and so the spoke does not seat properly in the rim. The joys of customising, its taken about a year to get to this point, only to start over again.
The next plan of attack is to go for 18 inch rims front and rear. If I can source a rim that is drilled for an old style hub, say from an old open-class Suzuki motocross bike them it may fit. I could get 17 or 18 inch rims custom drilled with custom spokes, but that is probably about a $1200 option. I still reckon its possible to do it for around $500.
Back to the old drawing board, stay tuned folks, its going to get even more interesting.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/spoke-not-seating.jpg)
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When comparing the front and rear hubs I noticed that they looked fairly similar. They both use 150 x 28 brake shoes, but the rear hub has larger bearings and is about 20mm wider, so you cannot lace the rear rim to the front hub (spoke angles are different). The front brake plate slots perfectly into the rear hub. So it looks fairly likely that I can run the rear hub and rim on the front! I will to see if I can get bearings that fit the OD of the hub and the ID of the smaller axle. According to wemoto.com the front bearings are 12x32x10 and the rear left is 17x40x12 and right rear is 17x47x14. So that means I need 12x40x12 and a 12x47x14. Will do a mock up of the whole setup sometime this week. I'm not concerned about the lack of a speedo drive as I will be using an electronic unit anyway.
The DR400 rear rim is 18x2.15 which will allow me to run up to a 110/90 front tyre according to the 2011 Michelin tyre fitment guide: http://www.michelinmotorcycle.com/pubs/fitment2011.pdf
The rim is a little beaten up and has one small flat spot, which will come out with a little heat and a shaped male and female dolly. I also bought a JOSCO metal polishing kit just to see if I really make that rim shine. I also have brand new zinc plated spokes that I got for nothing which I will also use.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/rear2front001.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/rear2front002.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/rear2front003.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/rear2front004.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/rear2front005.jpg)
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If there was such a thing as a vintage supermoto, then this is a bit what it would look like. 18 inch Akront style rims front and back, shod with vintage Firestone tyres. They look great, but unfortunately their performance is also post-war. And then its just a logical step to White Walls....
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/crispy01-014.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/crispy01-014-wwalls.jpg)
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How about the real thing? A 1985 XR600...
(http://www.ozvmx.com/images/forum/dt7.jpg)
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These days you can get rims drilled to suit what ever you want and even get rims that arent quite right modified so they are right. A lot of places start with universal rims and then have a special cutter tool that cuts a specific section out at the back of the dimple to correct the spoke angle. It does not take much. Just running a drill bit through on the right angle will not corect the angle. You need to set the angle from the seat of the nipple otherwise when you tighten up the spoke it will naturally go in the angle dictated by where the nipple wants to sit in the dimple.
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LWC82PE, If i find a suitably sized rim at the right price that is close I might try to see if I can modify the drilling to suit.
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Came home last night to find this little parcel. Its a NOS Wiseco 1.5mm oversized piston kit complete with rings, pin and circlips. At about $130 including post from Canada its less than half the price of a genuine Suzuki part. Just need to get the cylinder rebored to suit and will probably take it over to Ray Easson Engineering as they have a great reputation for quality work.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/wiseco-002.jpg)
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Thsi is the FINAL concept! Note the new specs alongside the old specs!
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/crispy01-032-final.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/dr400-ovn.jpg)
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Last night I fitted the 16x3 inch rear wheel and 17x2.15 rim to DR front hub as pictured. The rim needs to move to the left by 10mm to sit in the middle of the swingarm. To achieve this I am going to machine about 10mm off the face of the cush drive and redrill to suit DR sprocket.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-F3FiBV1sW6o/TnvgzKbhA2I/AAAAAAAAAVU/A4x7BmCkBBM/s1600/wheel-mock-001.jpg)
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Mocked up what is going to be the final front wheel and fitted it to the bike.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/wheel-275-01.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/wheel-275-02.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/front-wheel-mock-04.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/front-wheel-mock-05.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/front-wheel-mock-06.jpg)
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Picked up this front wheel today after work. I bought it for the hub and brake assembly as it is a 160mm diameter drum to exactly match my rim and is also a twin-leading shoe type which offers superior stopping power to the single leading shoe. Its got a 15mm axle rather than a 12mm so its also a little bit more durable too. So I will have to modify the forks to accept the larger axle and brake stay bracket. This particular wheel is from a Honda CB175 road bike of early 70s vintage. Also need to source a brake cable as well.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/160-TLS-001.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/160-TLS-002.jpg)
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KZ650 16x3 rim mounted to KX USD forks. I have bought another such wheel off e-bay to mount to the back as originally planned. Aluminium rims painted, hot-rod style. This is the result. Tyre options are 130 or 150 wide rear and 110 or 120 wide front in Bridgestone BT45s. Black rims look pretty 'tough', really monochromatic.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/crispy01-035.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/crispy01-035b.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/crispy01-035bb.jpg)
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Using AutoCAD I designed and drew up this torque arm bracket to connect the brake shoe backing plate assembly to the lower part of the left-hand fork leg. The red lines on the image show where it will go. The blue line shows the path of the brake cable. The cable mount will be coincident with the outer mounting point.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/front-brake-torque-arm.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/front-torque-arm.jpg)
Then I quickly modelled ths brake bracket up in AutoCad 3d. Upper two holes mount to the lower fork leg, lower hole is where the brake cable goes through and the hole for mounting to the brake plate is hidden behind. Have used photoshop to emboss 'crispy one' on the only custom part so far. Part will be painted to match cylinder and the rear shock springs.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/3D-bracket-01.jpg)
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Nice to see somebody is slower building than me ;)
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Hooray! Its been a while coming, but my retro front end is nearly ready to fit to the bike. Had a tyre fitted to the wheel this morning, a Metzeler Lasertec 110/80-16 which is the widest I can get between the fork legs. Also picked up a front brake cable from a Suzuki RM250Z (1982 vintage motocrosser) and it is long enough! Result! All thats left to do now is fine tune the wheel spacers and make a fitting to fit the lower end of the brake cable to the actuator. Am very happy with the result!
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/complete-front-002.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/complete-front-001.jpg)
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Bolted my USD front end onto the DR400 Supermoto tonight. Fits really well, the triple clamp bolt is the right length, all the steering stops work and the forks do not hit the tank! Am planning to push the forks up so they protrude out of the top of the triple clamp as the USD forks are 100mm longer. The 21 inch front tyre is 710mm in diameter, where as the 16 inch front tyre is 604mm in diameter, so there is 50mm already, so I just need to push the forks up by around another 50mm to get back to standard geometry.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/bolted-front-end-002.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/bolted-front-end-003.jpg)
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Got a new tyre fitted to the rear wheel on Saturday and bolted it up, just need to fine tune the wheel spacers and wait for the sprocket to arrive. Got rid of the tailight bracket etc and seat and am now thinking I really need a really low profile cafe style seat! Also wired on the front mudguard to see what kind of bracket I need to make and bolted on the bars. Starting to really look like a bike that will go somewhere some day.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb233/christo968/crispy-1-rolling-frame-001.jpg)
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At last I have a fully functioning front end - old school 180mm drum brake on my XL500S
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3B71XGHCh9s/VCaWzHPureI/AAAAAAAABIQ/jobCq8gstac/s1600/front-brake-plate-018.jpg)