OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Competition => Topic started by: 211kawasaki on May 05, 2010, 08:21:28 am
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Guys and Girls
as you will be no doubt aware there have been submissions to the Commission for some rather extensive changes to the sport. In summary you might see
A split to a classic and post classic format
inclusion of pre 90 pre 80 and age groups in more modern classes
increased age groups in other classes
removal of classes
Im letting you all know because as I have said before the Commission will not take any action unless there is input from your local State Historic committee, no response no action. The Commission will not and can not make changes unless there is a positive response and in this instance I would hope that we get more than one reply from the states. I would expect that if there is a poor response then nothing will change. And if thats the outcome then thats OK too.
My point is that you need to make your views known to your State body and have them formulate a response to the proposals that the Commission may put forward after this weekends Commission meetings. Have your say and make sure that should there be change you have excersized your democratic rights and had your say.
To the best of my knowledge there are no submissions for the 2011 DT or VMX meetings at National Level, if you want to have a National event lobby your club and have a go at running it. All submissions will be given proper and due consideration but without one there will be no event and I cant remember in my 20 years in the sport a time when VMX didnt have a National Championship.
Regards
Dave Tanner
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cheers Mr T have copied/pasted and sent off to the western troops. 8)
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Dave is correct....get out and get your clubs involved...tho many of us will remeber wondering what to do in 2004 2005 when the VMX Nationals were not held... :-\
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Dave....I'm in favour of all of the above except possibly the pre '80 classification. Nothing against pre '80 bikes per se but I see that with pre '78, pre '80 and Evo all being in the system we could have too much class 'intermingling'. Conceptually there isn't enough engineering variation between the three divisions. I'd rather the five year gap between divisions remain.
I realise that there's some opposition to age groups being introduced to the post '78 (post classic) division but I suspect that much of that opposition comes from racers who entered the sport after the age group systen became dormant in the classic division. I feel that the once the Post Classic era racers experience age group racing they'd understand just why it was the main attraction in drawing retired racers back therefore adding to the almosr overnight success of VMX during the formative 80's/90's. In my opinion, the removal of age group classes has been a major factor in the drop off in pre '75 competitor numbers and for the early noughties downturn in the sport in general. I'm not overlooking natural atrition and the introduction of newer classes having their effect but the exodus of a high percentage of first generation vintage racers in the early part of this decade can be connected to the 'dumbing' down of the age group system.
Get your clubs right onto this. It's an important step in mapping out our sports future. Splitting our sport into two distinct eras is probably the biggest change in VMX history.
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Allison - I believe VMXWA have already sent their comments off? I hope it was in support of the split?
Disappointing no hands up yet for the NATS next year.
Fatboy - can I come back to Tassie?
cheers
Rossco
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I beleive the VMXWA reply was in line with the club constitution and that being they supported the split at the pre75 level.
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unless there is input from your local State Historic committee, no response no action. The Commission will not and can not make changes unless there is a positive response and in this instance I would hope that we get more than one reply from the states. .
Dave Tanner
Where do i find this person ??? or persons ?? there not very active if they exsist.
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im might disagree on that, the club whoever it is that putting up the" historic consultant isnt insuring he is getting the depth of views of the other clubs. MY club wouldnt no what vintage is, and all the others probally wouldnt have a clue either unless its RR, so who as asking the riders that do - the questions ? never seen or heard of these people who represent me. how do i get on the committee that talks to you guys, not via the PAid office exec sitting in MA who must be doing this on my behalf ? i hate process but point me in the right direction..
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sorry Dave, seems like where living in a fish bowl!
this years event had 3 major changes WITHOUT any consultation of clubs
1- the use of a venue the week before the Nats for practice?
2- the changes made to allow 6 competitors to consitute a title
3- the dropping of age groups in pre75
If everything must go thru State bodies how were these changes made without consultation?
so will changes continue to be made if MA see fit?
Cheers Trev, I'm sure i will upset someone, but if the process is to work it must come from the clubs and not individuals.
I will wait with baited breath for the onsuing barrage from worm haters ;D
First up, I’m not a Worms hater, I’m just starting to hate the continual whinging that you seem to do.
It seemed like you were trying to undermine the Vic. Nationals from the start with your conspiracy theories.
1- the use of a venue the week before the Nats for practice?
17.12.3.4 alludes to this, but it is in the Motocross / Supercross section.
It has nothing to do with Vintage MX or other disciplines unless you can find it in the “all discipline” section
2- the changes made to allow 6 competitors to consitute a title
I’m not sure how this came about but if the classes were dropped altogether because of low entries there would have been many more complaints.
I think it was only for the older classes as well.
I don’t beleive MA had anything to gain from this either way.
3- the dropping of age groups in pre75
The age classes weren’t dropped, just the capacity / age classes.
As it was there wouldn’t have been enough competitors to make up age classes in all capacities with the poor turn out.
If everything must go thru State bodies how were these changes made without consultation?
The Nats have been run with various format changes over the years to suit the host clubs situation.
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im might disagree on that, the club whoever it is that putting up the" historic consultant isnt insuring he is getting the depth of views of the other clubs. MY club wouldnt no what vintage is, and all the others probally wouldnt have a clue either unless its RR, so who as asking the riders that do - the questions ? never seen or heard of these people who represent me. how do i get on the committee that talks to you guys, not via the PAid office exec sitting in MA who must be doing this on my behalf ? i hate process but point me in the right direction..
Freaky,
Your state controling body (Motorcycling South Australia) should have a couple of people in a commitee representing VMX in your state, you can, as an individual, or as a club, put foward proposals to this commitee for changes. These proposals along with all the other state and territory proposals are then put to the committee that 211 speaks of. This committee is the MA committee they then decide on wheather to impliment these changes or not Australia wide.
Pretty sure that's how it works. Changes aren't made by bailing someone up in the pits after a race meeting. Put your ideas on paper and get it to your state controling body.
By the way are you over medicated ? Your typing has become atrocious ;)
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I would have to agree ::)
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the point is if major changes are made,
The point is they weren't major changes.
1- the use of a venue the week before the Nats for practice?
Where then in MOM's does it say this..
The only referance I know of is 17.12.3.4
and this is in the Motocross / Supercross section.
3- the dropping of age groups in pre75
Again, where in MOM's does it say the age groups must be in capacity as well.
Maybe it was a bad decision but it is still up to the host club.
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Folks
It works like this
MA and all the LCBs (state bodies like MQ MNSW etc) are not a federation and as such the state bodies tell MA what to do. Not the clubs but the State body. For a proposal to be put by a club it should go from the club to the state historic committee then to MA and MA then passes it to their Commission for advice on how to proceed. This advice is ONLY made when it is felt by the Commission that a positive improvement could be gained by the addition (or removal) of some component to the rule book. This advice is then put back to the State Committee for agreement or not.
The Commission will not and has not acted without a response from the states, it dosnt have to be all of them but it has to be a response.
The proposal will not get any further than a discussion piece unless there is a response from the states, (after the final recomendation if anything is made and re-submitted to the LCB) the main topic has been vented in this and other forums so its common knowledge; what needs to be done now is lobby your committee for a yes or no.
Worms has used his democratic right and commented off topic, I will say however that the 6 rider rule change was an attempt to get more bikes in the pre 65 and 60 classes and only relates to these classes and is a trial only. Like the Pre 68 that was also a trial but unsupported it will fail if you dont get behind it. I think it is positive and attracting riders to the nationals. But agree with him that clubs need to have their say; however so can the indervidual such as Col Metcher and his proposal.
Freaky, SA either dosnt have a committee or needs one or if they have one they dont care. Suggest you contact MSA and see if you need to form one to make sure that the SA population has their say. Goes for everyone, I know QLD has a committee with active VMX membership but dont know what the other states have. It dosnt take a lot of effort (I did the QLD one for 12 years).
All the comments from the stake holders such as VMXWA, Col and others will be the basis for recomendations, its been great to get so many responses to the proposal but it will need agreed to again locally in about August for there to be any changes.
Im going to be at CD7 and if there are any questions or need for anyone to understand this or any other problem or issue just look for the Kawasaki collection and come and have a beer and a chat.
211
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Pre-80 is a dumb idea.
Either:
Pre-75, pre-78, pre-81, pre-85 (while there are exceptions, this roughly translates as short-travel, medium travel, Evo, and pre-85).
or;
Pre-75, pre-79, Evo pre-85 (again, there are exceptions but roughly: short-travel, less-than-12"-of-travel, 12"of travel and pre-85)
The above does a far better job of classifying bikes by their broad technology groups, and keeping the groups roughly the same size, than changing Evo to pre-80.
The other option is to ditch the bike ages, and make the rules reflect the bike's original level of technology (in much the same way as Evo does). This has the advantage of removing the need for lists and the carry-over rule.
All of these have the disadvantage of putting people who have bought/built bikes into more competitive classes. Think of all the YZ250H owners, for just one really obvious example.
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http://www.motorcyclingsa.org.au/
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[email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected]
I can't find contacts for the Historic Committees. Our Commissioners are Dave Tanner [Chair] & Shane Fraser.There is a new appointee but I don't know his name.
Just a recommendation--if you agree with the "proposal" in principal and feel like writing to your state body,keep it brief and simple.Two much detail and argument can be counterproductive.We are passionate about our sport,but we are dealing with a beaurocracy which has many other wider issues.I think the KISS principal is the go.
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Freaky, SA either dosnt have a committee or needs one or if they have one they dont care. Suggest you contact MSA and see if you need to form one to make sure that the SA population has their say. Goes for everyone, I know QLD has a committee with active VMX membership but dont know what the other states have. It dosnt take a lot of effort (I did the QLD one for 12 years).
can i be my own committee ? and who do i need to speak to ? ivan
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New committee member is Rod Mac Donald Victoria if need his contact number Pm me Freaky you if one steps down, but at this stage no. Form a sub- committee within MSA. for vintage.
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We should perhaps take into account how the fields looked back in the day. There were never too many older bikes running as I reacall as everyone was madly out buying the new model as it hit the wharf (and sometimes even before). However if we were to stick to that we probably wouldn't get a field of like racers at one meeting.
Except in the sidecars of course.
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Dave are you going to the MQ meeting on the 12th I think it is?Will there be any discussion of this topic at that meeting?We really need to get behind a proposal as a club and then inform MQ of our decision and bring Wayne Skyring on board if I'm reading you right.I will find you at CD7 to talk (and have a drink).
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Can l add some light to this and l may be able to understand this issue a little clearer. I understand about committee, sub-committee with MA and the commision.
Its the cut dates with models and races, classes.
National meeting Number one -------Each split will cater. first is pre 78, pre75, pre70, pre65. plus age classes
National meeting number two--------the next will cater pre 90, pre 85, pre80. classes, and age classes
or are these classes going to change.
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New committee member is Rod Mac Donald Victoria if need his contact number Pm me Freaky you if one steps down, but at this stage no. Form a sub- committee within MSA. for vintage.
Dave how does that help me im in SA.
can i start my own commitee here, then send you proxies for it ?
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Freaky, You need to start a sub-committee for vintage motocross with MSA, normally you need 10 people on that committee, now the sub-committee for vintage that you have created answers to the MA Australia, MSA. the local clubs are governed by MSA.Your sub- committee HELPS and guides the local clubs in the right direction when holding a vintage meeting. ( lets say for example a club in SA would like to make a rule change to suit themselves, they need to submit in writing their request to the sub-committee ( which is you) then your committee will need to disguss it at your level, and if you cannot solve this issue move it on to the 3 man commision to be confirmed. and deside) ( Freaky Do you understand )
So the host club ( like the Levis Club) that wishes to hold a national race meeting will need to submit there document to the sub-committee you forward them along to MSA for approval and they will submit them to MA Australia for approval then the paper trial will come back to the Sub-would like to host next year National vintage meeting, or just normal club level meeting, and pay there dues. (Note: Its the clubs that host meetings not the sub-committee, this is the reason that clubs in different location have dwindled over the years.
In my day of racing 1972 l raced at these towns, colac,geelong, warnambool, heywood, mortlake, Narracourt, Keith, Ararat, Great western,Stewall, Ballarat, Mount Gambier, they are just a few examples to show that clubs in area hold race meetings. but time has changed l know, but we need to get back to that. I hope that l have been helpfull. cheers
Just remember a host club, sub-committee or even a member must submitted there request for any concerns or changes to the 3 man commision, the 3 man commision cannot change anything, if they make changes, it must be in the best interest of the sport, without a letter of request, issue will not be looked at. I love this sport as much as you do, but it needs a lot of thought and we the members need to support the classes that are put in place and the race meetings and clubs that wish to host these meetings.
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Port Pirie MCC
What happening with this club ??? ,,do they have the facility's etc to run the all in Nats
cheers A
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Wasp, l hope they do form with good interest and reasoning, but do it with out Alcohol .
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Pardon my ignorance, but will this also apply to dirttrack, If its accross the board-then it would seem stocks have just gone up on F models in yammies and Rz in cr's??
Brett
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Port Pirie MCC
What happening with this club ??? ,,do they have the facility's etc to run the all in Nats
cheers A
YEs they could. they have enough feet on the ground and better infurstructure then Acusa park and levis club easily. IF in doubt you could rope in the iron triangle and northern side counrty clubs like gawler etc too. THose guys ,and maybe mud and tars at DT would be about the only clubs with the soldiers to put up a NAt event.
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Funny you mentioned it David , there is a few of SA VMX people with vision getting together next weekend to talk about that and see what can be done . Lets see where it takes from there.
Great stuff -the Port Pirie contact is Guy Walsh 08 86323298.
Port Pirie MCC
What happening with this club ??? ,,do they have the facility's etc to run the all in Nats
cheers A
YEs they could. they have enough feet on the ground and better infurstructure then Acusa park and levis club easily. IF in doubt you could rope in the iron triangle and northern side counrty clubs like gawler etc too. THose guys ,and maybe mud and tars at DT would be about the only clubs with the soldiers to put up a NAt event.
Thanks Freaky,have contacted the Keyneton Club this was the reply.Can you try mudntar ?
Thanks for considering our Club for the upcoming Nationals. Unfortunately, our Club does not own a track. Therefore, it would be far too expensive for us to run this event.
I would suggest you try contacting someone from either the Port Pirie MCC or the Morgan MCC. Both these clubs are in SA and own a motorcross track, all ready to go!!
Good luck!
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This is my apinion the way the national race classes should look like.
pre 77 eligible bikes 1976 models to 73 model
pre 73 1972 to 68 model
pre68 1967 to 64 model
pre 64 1963 to 60 model
pl;us age group classes
scratch races for each class
sidcars
pre 90
pre 85
pre 80 to 77 model bikes,
plus age group classes
sidecars
scratch races for each class.