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Clubroom => Tech Talk => Topic started by: mainline on April 05, 2010, 06:25:47 pm

Title: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: mainline on April 05, 2010, 06:25:47 pm
is there an easy/easier fix for this than cutting the old one out and having a new one turned up and welded in?

I started doing some work on the 125C tank this arvo, unscrewed the the fuel tap and there was nil thread on the alloy spigot welded to the tank. You could see where it had been though ;D  The bike must have belonged to a plumber at some stage cause there was a heap of old thread tape in there, which seems ironic given there was no thread.
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: frostype400 on April 05, 2010, 06:30:29 pm
Hang on the plumber line there is a bit unfair I am an apprentice plumber and I wouldn't do that ::) proper fix would be the go.
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: Davey Crocket on April 05, 2010, 06:39:01 pm
That plumber would have charged a fortune to do that as well!! ;D
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: mainline on April 05, 2010, 06:41:35 pm
Quote
I am an apprentice plumber and I wouldn't do that

that's cause you're not old and jaded yet ;D
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: frostype400 on April 05, 2010, 06:48:56 pm
 ;) I might start taking my camera to work it would just get broken but I'd get some funny pics before it broke people do some funny things. :)
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: Davey Crocket on April 05, 2010, 07:01:56 pm
The thread on that fitting is 14x1.0 mm, very fine thread and easy to strip! I have a die nut to clean the thread up Paul but  if you weld another spigot onto it you will either have to buy a rethreading dienut (will be exspensive- maybe $100+ as its not a common thread pitch.....14x1.25 or 14x1.5 is common ) or fit some other kind of tap. Most taps are around $70. Dammed if you do, dammed if you dont!!. I would probably get a flat plate welded onto it and fit a YZ-H type tap. If you want to bring the tank around for me to have a look thats OK. PM me. Cheers John.
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: Davey Crocket on April 05, 2010, 07:04:42 pm
PS, beware of dodgy oldfart plumbers!!! ;)
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: Rossvickicampbell on April 05, 2010, 07:05:30 pm
I also have a spare tap if needed as they were fairly common on that era Yamaha - problem is the inner seal doesn't last long and isn't listed as a spare part.  if you have to modify it like Davy is saying maybe better in the long run?

cheers

Rossco
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: oldfart on April 05, 2010, 07:06:09 pm
Mainline ,  an easy repair would be to come down one size ...NTP - BSP - and use an FI x MI  adpt to bring it back to correct thread.   If you have trouble reading what I have  typed  Frosty will put you straight  ;D
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: Davey Crocket on April 05, 2010, 07:08:32 pm
Look 3 posts up ;D
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: Davey Crocket on April 05, 2010, 07:13:48 pm
The spigot coming out of the tank is quite thin Stu and Rosco your right about the taps leaking...... I've bought new ones and they have leaked straight away, that inner seal shrinks bad, plus the fact the friggin things are older than Frosty! Hey Frosty, are you coming to the Nats?.
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: YZ250H on April 05, 2010, 07:15:16 pm
C type tap or H type more reliable ???.  I have not had a lot of luck with H type (same as F),  I think neither has mainline  ::)
He would probably rather poke an eye out with a fork than use one of those crap things :o.
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: Davey Crocket on April 05, 2010, 07:20:34 pm
Maybe fit a later 2000 model onwards type tap then......would still have to weld a plate on though.
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: frostype400 on April 05, 2010, 07:23:26 pm
Sounds like a bugger to fix good luck with it, I don't know about the Nats if not this year next. :-\
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: oldfart on April 05, 2010, 07:32:15 pm
Yeah I saw your post, and left it alone.  A bit like naughty kids you don't reply and they go away.   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: Davey Crocket on April 05, 2010, 07:34:18 pm
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: GMC on April 05, 2010, 08:05:19 pm
I have fixed tanks like this before, I just cut a new thread on the lathe & weld the piece on the tank, looks much the same as original.
Allow $66.00 plus postage to have something like that done.
Dearer than teflon, but it's done properly.
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: Davey Crocket on April 05, 2010, 08:14:36 pm
Thats the go Paul, get it done by royalty..... none other than Prince Geoffery of the Morris principality!!!. If you can get it to 090 or Dodgee tomorrow we can take it down to his Royal Highness as he is doing some other repairs for us.
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: pmc57 on April 05, 2010, 08:20:37 pm
Bugger, I was waiting on all the plumbers to have a good dummy spit over this one. Stew, you defused it with your option of leaving it go through to the keeper, but I agree with GMC's best option, fixed until someone cross threads it again.
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: Rossvickicampbell on April 05, 2010, 08:24:28 pm
with regards the shrinking inner seals - leave the "spare" one soaking in some of that "stuff" you buy from auto shops for old engines to stop smoking exhaust - apparently it causes a heap of 'swell" inside the engine and does the same thing to the inner fuel tap seal.  Have tried it once and it worked a treat!  ;D

Thanks Bill ;D

cheers

Rossco
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: mainline on April 05, 2010, 08:44:08 pm
Sounds like a plan, i'll try and get on to dodgee tomorrow. Otherwise Stu's idea might be worth a try
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: Davey Crocket on April 05, 2010, 09:11:53 pm
Their leaving tomorrow about 5 or 6pm for Mehico, give them a ring.
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: vandy010 on April 05, 2010, 10:04:42 pm
steel YZ tanks have a brass thread {same thread pitch as the alloy YZ tank}.
it's the same as some Oxy threads. pretty common with oxy/actylene gear.
plumbers would know.
cause us boily's do ;D
if your really stuck you could braze one in.
and be buggered if i'd buy a feul tap for $70 :o
you can get one from a small yammy road bike {same thread} available from Yambits in the UK/ebay
deilvered to your door for much less than the Davey Crocket price.
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: monaro308 on April 05, 2010, 10:49:22 pm
Bugger, I was waiting on all the plumbers to have a good dummy spit over this one. Stew, you defused it with your option of leaving it go through to the keeper, but I agree with GMC's best option, fixed until someone cross threads it again.
The plumbers are out with their gaylux 4wd and fishing boats on one of their 600 RDO's a month  ;D
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: Rossvickicampbell on April 05, 2010, 11:07:03 pm
YZB fuel tap - NOS - delievered to the door for about $35 - lots on Ebay US
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: Freakshow on April 05, 2010, 11:50:12 pm
if thats the same taps as i seen advertised there not the torpedo type the original YZ taps where, there those stupid round ones with the on,res , off etc and worth $5, post the link Rossco, lets see which ones yer on about
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: Lozza on April 06, 2010, 12:31:06 am
14 X 1mm TAP (http://cgi.ebay.com/14mm-14-x-1-Metric-HSS-Tap-M14-x-1.0mm-Pitch_W0QQitemZ110512124069QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20100330?IMSfp=TL100330011002r21063)
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: vandy010 on April 06, 2010, 08:16:23 am
needs to be a die nut Lozza
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: Lozza on April 06, 2010, 09:29:33 am
needs to be a die nut Lozza

Noooo it needs  a THREAD FILE (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/THREAD-RESTORE-FILE-METRIC-FREE-POSTAGE-UK-MAINLAND_W0QQitemZ300410259150QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET?hash=item45f1d8c6ce)
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: mainline on April 06, 2010, 10:28:58 am
mmmm..... that looks like you could do some damage with it.

Having another look at the offending item (after removing all the thread tape the plumber put on it) most of the thread at the top of the male piece is pretty good. Given that the nut only engages about three turns at best, I'm going to try cutting a few mm off and retapping/cleaning up the remaining thread and see how that goes.

I might steer clear of Lozza's latest find in the field of thread repair weaponry and buy a die nut instead.
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: mainline on April 06, 2010, 10:36:57 am
the mob that Lozza listed for the tap, sell the die's as well. I'll see how much they are locally first.
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: YZ250H on April 06, 2010, 11:53:35 am
I have a thread file if you change your mind - welcome to borrow it  ;)
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: Lozza on April 06, 2010, 12:42:48 pm
Thread files work a treat as when you file the damaged thread it has the correct pitch but the 'hills and valleys' on what you have filed are under the root diameter.So anything screws on very easy because of that. The files have a part on them for internal threads also
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: oldfart on April 06, 2010, 04:08:50 pm
Here's another solution .... buy an M & F adpt of same thread in brass  use PERMABOND or LOXSEAL to bond. The brass  fitting will have a longer FI thread - thus engaging threads that are not damaged.
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: TT5 Matt on April 06, 2010, 05:58:13 pm
is there enough thread left to cut some of the stripped section off and then file/machine the spigot flat again for the seal/fibre washer to do its job?you can make a mandrill to suit a cutter sold seprately to suit those oring style tap washers,the cutter cost about $13 and a machined mandrill wouldnt be much
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: mainline on April 07, 2010, 07:54:33 am
well, I picked up a thread file, cause I figured it was something I could use again, whereas a die would be a one-off. Sorry Lozza, I thought you were having a lend when you first posted it, I'd never seen one before and figured it was like the "wankometer" tm you found on ebay. ;D

It certainly made things better, whether there's enough thread there now I'll  have to find out when I test fit before painting.

Otherwise, Stu's plumbing repair idea might come into play.

Quote
is there enough thread left to cut some of the stripped section off and then file/machine the spigot flat again for the seal/fibre washer to do its job?you can make a mandrill to suit a cutter sold seprately to suit those oring style tap washers,the cutter cost about $13 and a machined mandrill wouldnt be much


I don't quite follow this Matt, I picked up what you're saying about cutting the spigot shorter and resurfacing it, but the Mandrill bit is over my inexperienced head ???
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: Lozza on April 07, 2010, 08:53:30 am
I'd never seen one before and figured it was like the "wankometer" tm you found on ebay. ;D

Did it finaly get delivered? They were temporarily out of stock after the link was posted ;)
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: rocketfrog on April 08, 2010, 04:04:01 pm
I have used neat little 1/4 " (also 3/8 and 1/2) inline mini ball valves in nickel plated brass with a plastic cock handle and a hex body which you could use to adapt with the appropriate brass bushing. These wont break the bank at around $5-10 from Blackwoods. I have used these before and they are a quality peice of kit. You could also turn it 90 degrees out of the tank for a neater, less obvious installation.
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: YZ250H on April 08, 2010, 07:16:02 pm
any chance a picture rocketfrog ?
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: TT5 Matt on April 09, 2010, 02:16:26 am
Mainline
a manduel is a guide for the cutter but goes up the spigot on the tankits keeps the cutter face square  to the sealing face for the tap,if you wait till tafe goes back ill make one up for a few $
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: LWC82PE on April 09, 2010, 02:25:02 am
Would it be this?

http://www2.blackwoods.com.au/infoBANKproduct.aspx?SG=2000165&S=4084710&G=2003109&P=2023059

or

http://www2.blackwoods.com.au/infoBANKProduct.aspx?SG=2000165&S=4084710&G=2003109&P=2023060

i still reckon best soloution is as GMC suggests.

Thread files are quite a handy tool to have too.
Title: Re: alloy fuel tank - threaded outlet
Post by: rocketfrog on April 09, 2010, 01:06:38 pm
Actually I was refering to this type http://www2.blackwoods.com.au/PartDetail.aspx?part_no=05947113