OzVMX Forum

Marque Remarks => Kawasaki => Topic started by: cloggy on January 13, 2010, 06:30:26 pm

Title: KLX engines
Post by: cloggy on January 13, 2010, 06:30:26 pm
I just picked up two KLX's that I'd ebayed
One is an unfinished UK 1981 bike missing various plastics and with the wrong shocks. The engine has been rebuilt by a Williams Formula 1 technician, supposedly.
The other was complete and running 1979 import [plastic tank, longer seat] rebuilt by a 14 year old. It sounds great, but I wonder how tight some of the bolts are.
The later bike is supposed to run 6v electrics but the wiring needs doing. The earlier bike is supposed to run 12v lights but mine is lightless. Can I swap engines and just deal with the different electrics by swapping the sidecovers? I've got a 1979 manual winging it's way to me but with the weather...... I ended up changing van wheels in the snow last night, tyre blew out.
Secondly I've seen the correct shock length quoted as both 440 and 460mm. Did the roadgoing later bike run a slightly shorter shock?
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: TT5 Matt on January 13, 2010, 06:53:11 pm
ive got a 82 model and that runs 460mm shocks,hagon shocks quote 460 and 440 so maybe the 440 was for the countries with short people that have trouble touching the ground  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: LWC82PE on January 13, 2010, 07:45:05 pm
The article in VMX mag says the only difference was the regulator between the 6 volt and 12 volt. I dont know how true that is though.
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: cloggy on January 14, 2010, 12:49:32 am
Thanks both of you
I had to strip them down to get both in the van and upon reassembly have noticed that the carbs are different. The 14 year old's efforts resulted in the throttle jamming open. Luckily the engine survived but a closer look showed the  throttle linkage to be on the opposite side, and a missing airbox.
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: gtmpaul on January 15, 2010, 04:37:11 am
Hi,
The earlier A1 & A2 all should run 6v systems, the later B1 had a more complete loom and was 12v, if you need any info, I have all the parts lists and manuals.
The shocks were all the same
Cheers
Paul

A1-A2
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e184/gtmpaul/klxwiring.jpg)

B1
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e184/gtmpaul/klxb1wiring003.jpg)
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: cloggy on January 15, 2010, 06:32:37 pm
This explains why my early running bike is virtually wire less whilst my later one is festooned
Is there any reason why I can't run the earlier wiring system with the later motor?
I note what appears to be the later magneto has only 4 output wires to the earlier one's 5; so I guess what I still need to know is if the magneto [or at least the lighting coils] is attached to the outer cover and if so are the flywheels identical?
I don't mind swapping electrical componants over on the actual frame. Any chance  Paul, that you could send me the later wiring diagram in a form I could increase the scale?

The later diagram appears to show two wires to the CDI box, one to a battery via a rectifier, and one direct to the headlamp which appears to be running AC. This is pretty much as the Suzuki DR400 where the ignition and lighting are also separate.
That being so I suppose I could simplify the wiring and just run one  or both lighting wires straight through the system  with a heat sink taking off excess voltage.
Paul, do you have specs for the correct spring rates? [and thanks very much for the info so far, I was hoping you'd see the post]
The early tests all said both ends were too soft so I'd rather know what works on the rear shocks rather than the original specs. I've got the original shocks on one bike but they look to be leaking. Is there any particular make of shock that will fit behind the sidecovers?
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: TT5 Matt on January 15, 2010, 10:15:17 pm
on the 2nd wiring diagram the pickup/pulser coil is shown at the bottom of the cdi box with 2 orange wires connected to it and that is located on the outside of the cdi charge coil and lighting coils and needs 40 to 50 thou air gap,the cdi charge coil wires are black and black/yellow in colour,the green goes to the half wave recterifier and the yellow does the headlight and speedo globes,falcon shocks over your way had a good list of shocks with spring rates or contact wasp on this site for yss shocks
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: cloggy on January 16, 2010, 03:40:48 am
Thanks very much for that. I've spoken to Robin at Falcon and he can do an off the peg Red Rocket type shock with around 5.5" of travel, which is as close as I'm going to get to the original 5.9" without serious extra money. I don't think they are going to fit behind KLX side panels though.
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: grouty on January 21, 2010, 09:06:40 am
Thats quite interesting !  I have a B1 that has 6 volt electrics. I will measure the original shocks tomorrow out of interest as well.
I spoke to Robin about a year or so ago reference new shocks. He reckoned about £450 for a pair. He could not do them with the remote resevoir though.

Cloggy .... airboxes are like hen's teeth. Good luck.

Paul .... are you going to Telford next month for the classic offroad show ??  Be good to meet up.
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: cloggy on January 21, 2010, 10:30:52 am
One of the bikes has a complete airbox.
The VMX article seems to imply that one of the interim models has  12v. I've no idea what mine has
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: YUMASTEPSIDE on January 23, 2010, 07:32:20 am
.......just a question,whats the difference between the KL250 trailbike motor and the KLX250 motor ??

                Roger
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: JC on January 23, 2010, 10:32:25 am
Not a lot. KLX had 1mm larger dia valves.
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: Nathan S on January 23, 2010, 11:04:15 am
KL carby was larger, but is the more restrictive CV type.

Edit: Maybe.
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: gtmpaul on January 24, 2010, 07:23:06 am
Hi Cloggy
Do you still want a better copy of the wiring diagram?
also do you need an air box? I do have a lot of spares, just no shocks, cams or heads.

Ian, I will PM you about Telford, I just need to sort out a Pass with the wife


Cheers
Paul
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: cloggy on January 26, 2010, 05:04:22 am
UK  KL had a smaller slide carb.
I don't want to spend loads completing both bikes Paul. On the other hand an airbox and carb would enhance the spare bike's value.
I am missing one side panel, one rear mudguard  Both  headllamp assemblies, one carb, one airbox, one tail light.
I have one spare swing arm and rear wheel spindle and one spare engine in bits with seemingly a good head
Both rolling chassis seem good apart from the swing  arm bearings on one.
The running bike has a modern Keihin which needs the choke optimising, so I'm switching carbs tomorrow. And yes I would like a better copy. of the wiring diagram please. I can show it to experts at the twinshock show and then simplify it with modern components.
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: Nathan S on January 26, 2010, 09:53:20 am
UK  KL had a smaller slide carb.

Indeed. I found my ADB article and they said the same. I definitely remember reading that the KL had alarger CV carb in a magazine article that someone scanner and posted up.

Maybe a US market thing?
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: cloggy on January 28, 2010, 06:15:47 am
Faffed about with the bike all day today
I'm definately not going to build them both up.
There's too many small bits missing.
I just need the headlamp assembly, a front brake lever,  and the tank strap.
I also could do with either another chain or a rear sprocket, a 47 or 46, and some decent enduro tyres.
Anyone know if sprockets are available off the shelf in the UK?
If not I can easily get one made up.
 I would like the later wiring diagram, in case I have to swap motors
I cleaned and unjammed the correct carb last night. It isn't quite as my book, a 25 idle jet and a 140 main is what it had. Anyway it runs fine.
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: grouty on January 28, 2010, 08:21:09 pm
Cloggy, Most of the bits you need will be on ebay. There are rubber tank straps on at present. The headlamp assembly is not that easy to find. If it helps they are the same as the KDX175 which was more popular over here in the UK. The brake levers are on ebay or (as I use) Wemoto. They are identical to the o.e. ones but cheaper. Chain and sprockets are easily available from your local bike shop. Just replaced mine (every 12 months) with a 14T front and a 44T rear with an o-ring chain. If you use anything bigger than the 44 rear you will struggle to get anything more than 40mph. Mine is happy (ish) at 50mph, but I would not want to rev it any more.
I can photocopy a wiring diagram from the B2 book (6 volt) and bring it to Telford, if you are going.
Don't give up on the gutless old crap, once running right they will go places modern bikes can only dream about, do 50mpg, never boil a radiator, always start when drowned or dropped, and always seem to be a talking point where ever they are parked.
The motors can be made to give a bit more power too.
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: cloggy on January 28, 2010, 08:51:42 pm
I'm not sure what's inside the cases of either of my complete motors but if I want pep I've got several DR400s, one of which actually runs.
Motoduro said that the headlight is a 110mm unit. Nothing is turning up so I'm hoping that Telford will help. I'll take your advice and get a 44,  Levers and stuff I can get cheap from Offroad only, who are only 20 minutes away. What day are you going to be at Telford?
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: grouty on January 29, 2010, 01:04:43 am
Should be there Saturday.
Be good if Paul can get there too.
You will probably find me around the Performance Engineering stand gawping at my new part built 73 CCM.
If you are going on Sat, let me know and I will PM my mobile No. to you.
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: cloggy on January 29, 2010, 03:07:34 am
I'm afraid you trump me with that. I'll let you know nearer the time.
 Corby had the sprocket in stock,asking price £65.65. They wandered off to the boss and came back with £22. Oh the joys of dead stock!
As for the light, I'll buy a cheap generic one and hope the proper item turns up.
PS I've got  the tank straps from Corby
One thing I've just realised I do need is the silencer baffle.
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: cloggy on February 11, 2010, 05:20:44 am
I will indeed be there saturday
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: cloggy on September 29, 2010, 08:42:28 am
 Update

I got some s/h Ohlins at Telford off a Red Rocket. Backed off the preload and they work fine. Probably lost up to an inch of travel since they are slightly shorter and have a touch less stroke. Still they are light years better in quality than the originals. Interestingly the springs are the same length and diameter as the originals so I could swap if needed.
We cut 18 coils off the fork springs to up the rate and preloaded about an inch. Dropped the yokes to compensate for the shorter shocks. Probably should have cut another 3 or 4 coils but they seem good. I reckoned we could cut 25 ish and no preload  before they coil bound.

 The standard carb is running a 140 main and a 25 idle. Have had to go to a P-O needle jet with the needle dropped to the top clip

 The motor I'm using turned out to have a bronze bush on the large cam journal, and a fatter cam. No idea what the springs are, It's also got the larger bore non standard exhaust. I changed the head studs and cleaned the oil pump intake gauze [no metal filings]. I got a blank plug made in place of  the rev counter driven worm and cut off the cam drive.
I'm running Amsoil oil.

 I've done two events on it. Unbeknownst to me the rear brake shoes disintegrated  during the first which made scrutineering at the second  a bit interesting.
Only minor problems apart from that.
 The side panels are really brittle. Do KX ones go straight on and what year?
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: giler on September 29, 2010, 06:25:11 pm
In the "klx a shared disease" thread there is a klx with kx125 side panels - should be straight swap and available from motoduro.
Giler
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: vmx42 on September 29, 2010, 06:55:51 pm
(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s255/vmx42/KLX_resto_3.jpg)

They bolt straight on, and look better too.
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: grouty on September 30, 2010, 11:27:37 pm
The KX side panels do look better.
Original pattern ones are available from DC Plastics ( I know, I had them done). They are not bad, but will need the 3 slots cutting out with a dremel.
Sounds like there has been a bit of work done on the motor. I don't suppose you took any pics when it was in bits ?

I would be nice to see pictures of the bike, including the exhaust.
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: cloggy on October 01, 2010, 09:46:37 am
I've ordered the KX ones from Motoduro
I was aware DC make klx ones but I'm not that bothered about originality, as long as it looks of the period.
The pipe is patched. Daz made a really nice silencer baffle, it revs ok  [ 69mph on a 44 rear] The cam journal bush is so hefty there's barely a gap where it seats.
I don't think there's as much midrange as a PE175 but it's faster than I am, and at my age, likely to remain so.....
http://grip.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Vinduro-Sept-2010/13958601_c8JhF#1027417950_gQ5w3
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: giler on October 01, 2010, 06:12:28 pm
I've ordered the KX ones from Motoduro
I was aware DC make klx ones but I'm not that bothered about originality, as long as it looks of the period.
The pipe is patched. Daz made a really nice silencer baffle, it revs ok  [ 69mph on a 44 rear] The cam journal bush is so hefty there's barely a gap where it seats.
I don't think there's as much midrange as a PE175 but it's faster than I am, and at my age, likely to remain so.....
http://grip.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Vinduro-Sept-2010/13958601_c8JhF#1027417950_gQ5w3

Been trying to register on Gavins site, but won't go through, they are trying to sort it for me.
Looked like a great event. My klx has stalled progress as I have moved and do not have a garage (DOH), hopefully 8 weeks (planning
permission needed). 69mph sounds good!
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: cloggy on October 02, 2010, 01:03:13 am
 I have another donor bike and yet another engine in bits so I have a lot of stuff; but I want to hold on to most of it.
 I find Corby Kawasaki have parts and are helpfull. If you get a parts book off ebay then they are really onside. Rear brake shoes are identical to the up to 78 KE175. EBC sell them at 1/3 of the OEM price
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: giler on October 02, 2010, 02:13:50 am
Doesn't need too much doing when I get it back, valve stem seals, maybe rings, road legal tyres. Main thing is trying to find original silencer or period supertrapp.
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: cloggy on October 02, 2010, 09:18:41 am
 Daz can make you one
He designs and builds 2 stroke pipes for motorised hang gliders. Last year he made a pipe for a Gilera racer. He made a Supertrapp for my DR400 [I had the discs]. He rebuilds bikes for the local classic and twinshock blokes.
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: grouty on October 04, 2010, 09:09:10 am
Wow, 69 mph on a 44T rear ! That's revving on  :o
Mine is still on a 44 at present but feels unhappy at 55+
As I have gone to a 100/100 rear tyre I have a 43T to go on soon.
There is a great exhaust/silencer guy down south in the UK. Not sure where yoare Giler.
I must get my finger out and convert many of my spare engine bits into a decent motor.
The megacycle cam and head is begging to be fitted to a modified lump.
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: cloggy on October 04, 2010, 05:06:20 pm
 Yeh I held it for a mile but it wouldn't hit 70. That was on a calibrated bicycle speedo. I'd rather the engine didn't blow during an event, so best to test.
 The cam won't time correctly unless it's slotted, which as yet it isn't. Apparently it's present timing errs towards revs. Although the engine potters happily it loads up at lower revs. I don't know if this is normal. Contempory reports say it's happy to take full throttle at 3000+ so maybe so.
 The only mod I may yet do is fit  the oversize piston. but I doubt I'll do it till this one goes south. Checking all the data the engines don't take kindly to being bored and stroked. The gearbox originated in a Z200.
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: giler on October 04, 2010, 07:07:31 pm
Wow, 69 mph on a 44T rear ! That's revving on  :o
Mine is still on a 44 at present but feels unhappy at 55+
As I have gone to a 100/100 rear tyre I have a 43T to go on soon.
There is a great exhaust/silencer guy down south in the UK. Not sure where yoare Giler.
I must get my finger out and convert many of my spare engine bits into a decent motor.
The megacycle cam and head is begging to be fitted to a modified lump.

Swindon, Wiltshire.
Title: Re: KLX engines
Post by: grouty on October 05, 2010, 01:35:10 am
Giler, see PM.