OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => KTM => Topic started by: Tossa on December 30, 2009, 10:22:49 am
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Finally got hold of a 1981 KTM 390. I have placed this on our website pre85MXWA as a project. In the east you have a great setup as in knowledge on this website which i have used and also the ability to find some great professional services. in the west the knowledge and professionals are there, but takes some work to get the details out of people. So i've placed it on the website asking questions of people in how I should rebuild the bike, if you have a look, you might get a better idea of what I mean. i would appreciate your thoughts
I hope to have this one rebuilt for the manjimup 15000 (first Sunday in June)
(http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww283/bmitches/others/PC266446_low_res_122609.jpg)
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Enjoy ,,,,, oh by the way have a WONDERFUL BIRTHDAY ;D :-*
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Need Help then just ask ..
or Send a E-Mail .
If I can not help some one in the KTM family will be to Happy too..
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Thanks for the offer and as i get down the track i assure you i'll head to the guys who have an idea of what they are doing!!lol
Barry
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Have the requisite parts manuals coming from the states, cost $30.00 happy with that.
Now a couple of questions, first thing being done is the frame
What colour, previous threads mention Milano Red and Coates Orange C320745A?
Though still waiting for the parts manual, where to get Head stem bearings and fork seals (38mm)?
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The Bearing are only Ball so go to a Bearing shop.
if you have no ball in the head stem then I can find out that for you..
I have been buying my for seals from Vintage Classic Rubbers and He has all of the Rubbers
you mite need for your KTM or any Bike
Call 02 9531 1547
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They make quite good MX'ers. We had one in our fleet last season, good strong torquey power which came on with a bit of a rush in the mid range. We had a custom pipe & muffler though. Pistons are hard to find, but we used a an easy to get Wiseco ring. We ran 13/54 which was posibly a bit short, but worked well on all the tracks we raced on in Vic. Very tall bikes though (too tall), we lowered ours 25mm front & rear and even then it seemed too tall. Milano Red is virtually impossible to pick from the original color.
Cheers,
K
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thanks guys, they may appear simple questions, but just trying to get it right. Thanks K for the info on your bike. Pistons sound a bit of a prob so better get the bore looked at quick, though i know it's still on standard bore. might start looking for first oversize
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I have ridden and raced one of these fine machines.
First off the motors are very slow to build power, snappy power is not something this bike will do. Second they don't steer very quickly. You will need wide flowing lines.
Once these things are wound up at speed they go very fast very little if anything will pass you once its WFO. They track straight and true and hold there line, There soft for MX perfect for Vinduro thou.
I've seen a project one of these in 250 MX frame witch is heaps different with a warmed over motor which would be a very interesting bike to VMX.
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one of the reasons i put this on the forum is to get the sort of info from the guys who have run these. From hearing BigK about lowering the bike. To theinfo regarding the power band. Will need advise at sometime how i might get the motor quicker, whether it be porting or timing, whatever. It's all really interesting info and hopefully I'll put it to good use.
I hope to have the frame and wheels off for bead blasting, powder coating respoking etc by the end of next week. But got a couple of things on the go ie 1983 RM250D that i've got to get the carbie tuned and have new plastics and decals etc, for the season. A 1974 Yammie MX250A for sale, and a MX360A I"m having resleeved.
Hope to have this running for the manjimup 15000 on the first Sunday in June. It's a brilliant meet, we run as a support class with 10,000 spectators, stunning track!!!
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Fit a MX internal rotar is a quick fix if you going to MX it, really thou these wonderfull bikes need extensive mod's for MX top ten finish. They eat hills and laugh at anything that can be hit at pace with vinduro, This is why KTM made the 420 MX so quickly the 390 was a MX dog but a beautifull engine in other applications.
I have been racing KTM's since the 80's and still race Brad Lewis collection of bikes today of whitch there are some 30 odd ready to race bikes. The 390 is still one of my fav KTM bikes but not to MX the 420 is perfect the twin shock 495 beats you to death and my fav 495 is the 83 model a smooth ride with a little top end snap.
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Dose your Engine Number End wiht the Letter A or B ?
Eg 560 ##### A or 560##### B
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Engine number ends in an A
I understand the 390 was brought out as an ISDE model i think. Don't expect to be anywhere near the front, noyt that good a rider. Bit old now to expect much, just get a damn big smile on the face, the wife takes photo's for the VMX and Pre85 club, so it's just a fun thing
Been wanting to get a KTM for a few years, and basically know i don't have the "495" but then i don't have the 495 body either!!lol
About the internal rotor what is the difference and where can i get one. thinking of getting different pipe, but don't really know what i've got until the parts books turn up, hopefully this week
Already sent the Ohlins of to be refurbished. Next week the frame will go to be Powdercoated, wondering whether to just blast the swinging arm and motor or get them powder coated as well. Anyone know the colour to use
Thank you all for the great help I'm getting
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The crank would weigh more than most good boat anchors hench the slow to build power. By fitting a MX ingnition or internal roter you are removing some of the weight and it will help it spin up a little faster. Darell Lewis can make you a great pipe to suit the power your after he knows his KTM.
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The crank would weigh more than most good boat anchors hench the slow to build power. By fitting a MX ingnition or internal roter you are removing some of the weight and it will help it spin up a little faster. Darell Lewis can make you a great pipe to suit the power your after he knows his KTM.
Thanks for the info, getting deeper and deeper and learning so much, so quickly. Haven't had a look at the motor at the moment too damn hot to spend too spend much time in the shed, but hopefully will get a bit done on weekend and next week. Once i get the engine parts manual, will be able to tell what rotor and flywheel I have. Really biting my tongue, can't wait to start see results
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I am in the process of restoring an 81 350 and would like to know if anyone knows the paint(spray can) colour.I bought a can of Power Plus Milano Red PJ5124 and it is nothing like orange but a red/maroon colour. Heeeelp.
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The Milano Red spoken of is a powder coat color, not a paint color. My powder coater has the bulk powder, but the company it comes from doesn't make a touch up can.
Cheers,
K
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Thanks for clearing that up
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I have all way painted my KTM with
VHT Chevy Orange ..From Reco .
Prime with a dark Primer as this change to final coulor ..
NOTE MUST BE the VHT brand oother Brands are way out
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OK my parts manua; for the bike and motor have arrive courtesy of Allan Beuhner. Just checked the flywheel and rotor and it is the GS model, so looking for the lighter MX versions. Anyone got tha parts for sale.
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Bit spasmodic at getting to the bike as I work 12hr shifts, but hopefully will pull the forks down and get the frame and forks off to the powdercoaters next week.
Finally got the head off, bore sitting on 82mm, so it's a 390 for sure. Not going to bother honing it out will get it taken straight to first oversize, so now chasing piston etc
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Despite what has been posted by others, and no dispute as to the validity of said posts, but I would try the bike with the GS ignition first before going to the trouble & expense of trying to find an MX ignition. Our bike was bone stock (GS ignition) except for a custom exhaust & muffler (modified CR250RZ pipe/KX500 muffler). It made good strong, useable power in the hands of an intermediate rider and actually won quite a few races against comparable opposition. The bike will have plenty of power, so I would recommend you determine you need the extra oomph of the MX ignition before you buy one. The money may be better spent elsewhere. My Husky CR430 was too much for me with the CR internal rotor, flighty and tiring. An external rotor WR ignition tamed the bike and it became much more rideable and enjoyable for ME. Try yours first. Just my opinion.
Cheers,
K
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Great info K. You are probably right as well, and at my age, sensible, hold on sensible, riding VMX!!lol
But really good advice
Thanks
Barry
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Look I try to just sit on the fence and let roll.
for I cant Spell or type for Shit .
But haveing a 350 ,390 420,and 495 .
I am vert happy with the 390 GS stock.
It is just like riding a 250 with More punch .
Thear was 2 pipe that you could fit to the bike .
The pipe in the photo is the longer header pipe (Make more Grunt low )
The motor will pull from off idle all the way .
I race mx Vintage and Moden on Old KTMs and Dt on the bike .
and it turn fine .
One thing about riding Old KTM is That the Farster you ride them
the Better thay Handle .
It is a Pitty that could not every ride any of My KTM to the Limit
Just all ways do a few hours race Peprep Work befor a race..
So Do not worry just get it all going and Enjoy it .
and you will.
Ps make shore you sand all the paint off the coil mount and whear the engine and the frame touch
you will get bad Earth problems latter On.
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Getting the idea, just leave it stock and enjoy, you are both on the same track and I understand exactly where you're coming from
Thanks
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Question, photo on first page shows the frame and rear wheeel, you will note no rear sub frame extension, do i need this as an MX version. My frame parts manual only shows it as being on the GS models
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No Mate if you want the MX rear gard the one with the Number plate in it
Then No .
But you would need it for a GS gard .
Also the head stem Balls size is 6.3mm in size and would need 34 550.01.000.000 NLA NIll stock
and you will need 2 o-rings to seal out the dust .
The size of the rings is 6mm and a ID of 44mm OD 58mm 510.050820200 7 in stock with KTM Australia .75 cents
I Buy the O-Ring and Steel Ball all From C B C Bearing Service
.
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Thanks Ozktm Frame gone to powdercaoting, was unable to source Milano red, so we'll see how it comes out. At this point in time not to worried as i intend to enjoy the bike, not sit it in the lounge. Trust me I'm good at finding trees
Forks off for hard chroming today and getting new tyres for the rims. Not going to respoke the wheels, no need the front hub looks brand new and all the spokes and rims in very good nick
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Tos - where did you send the forks for rechroming?
Rossco
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Industrial Chrome Engineering, got a good price for WA 400. I know can be cheaper in eastern states, but you have to add postage and of course here at least it's face to face
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Got the frame and bits back all powdercoated Signal Red. Thats as close as I could get. Will post photo's next week when I get the chrome back.
I am looking for a rear brake cable and fittings, think the length is 655mm and a first oversize piston and ring 82.25mm
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Can anyone tell me if the 1982 seat is the same as a 1981, as I am chasing a nes seat cover and can find a 82 model, but not a 1981.
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OK I have a problem, I've had the frame and fork legs powder coated, not the correct colour i know, but the bike will get covered in MUD!! My problem is this, have a look at the photo's of the fork legs they are of different lengths
one approx 43.5cm long, 35cm from axle to top, and appears to be the correct leg. The one with the brake brace support is 44.5cm long and 36cm from the axle to top. it also has had a plastic bush placed inside, almost like the interior has been honed out to remove rust and the insert placed in it.
Further to the problem is i haven't been able to look at the fork slide lengths as they are away being hard chromed, i just hope they are the same length.
I've spoken to the gentleman who has sold me the bike and i'm hoping that this was only an error caused when the bike was sent as it was in pieces.
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buggga!
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Oh the joy of buying basket cases!
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He's sending me the other fork leg, so will wait and see what turns up, hopefully all will be well.
Now another question. The bike has the original bing carbie. Do i need to run the choke or not(sorry about the basic question)?
Are they worth refurbishing with a kit or just buy a new one?
If i buy a new one any particular jetting other than the standard (in the book) as i will be running it as an MX?
Is any one running a Mikuni if so what sort, jetting and any extra rubber fittings required.
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got the correct lower fork leg today so that's off getting powdercoated. Got the Fork legs back all chromed. So soon as the lower fork leg comes back can refurbish the forks. Motor away about to have the bore checked etc
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Starting to look good Tossa. First impressions of the forks are that they are from a either a 79 or 80 model but it being a 390 which would have been set up for enduros. Mx bikes of 81 era probably should have more underhang below the axle. I trust you know you should be able to get an 82+ mm Wiseco piston from Al Beuhner in America. Should cost US$150. Enjoy the bike.
Bill
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thanks for the info Bill, found acouple of other people in the states able to help with the piston and even back brake. Sunrise KTM and Seven4racing. Really helpful
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I for got to give you the wiseco Part Number
82mm = 0.40" 417p4
82.5 mm = 0.60' 417p6
83mm = 0.80' 417p8
Old Wiseco Part Number
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thanks mate, all helpful
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Hi-Point Piston Numbers
751/40 = 82mm
751/60 = 82.5mm
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got the chrome back and the replacement fork leg powdercaoted so can start putting the front end together and maybe fit some frame plastics. Got to check to see how the ohlin refurbishment is going. Will get photo's up next week
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Getting the Ohlins back this week. but have now hit a bit of a hump as it looks like the rod and crank will need doing. Really upset as i was told they were fine. Should have bought BigK's 390 on ebay, damn!!!
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Well i seem to have got out of it cheap i'm looking for a Rod Kit 560.30.015.044 and gearbox bearing 0625 982030. Have sent a couple of emails off to dealers, but thought i'd just put it on here, just in case!!lol Just adding to this as i've just looked at the price of a Rod Kit on Andre Horvaths Web site
560.30.015.044
conrod repair kit KTM 350 GS 1980-1981, 390 GS 1980-1982, 420 GS/MC 1979-1984, 495 MC/MX 1981-1984 289,00 Thats right 289 Euro's sorry off to get pissed if thats what i ahve to pay.
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Tossa
Just checking that you have tried local
Bikes/ Bits in Mundaring
phone 92956688
They can match most rods if you supply dimensions of the KTM rod
Help me out with a rod kit for a current DKW project
Cheers
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been talking to Ron, but I was able to pick up a complete KTM Rod kit from the states for 155.00, was happy with that
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Good one Aussie dollars not bad exchange under 200 dollars landed
Dads Alron is well under way hope to run at march narrogin tuning day
Cheers
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that sounds great. Damn pity I won't be there as I'm working. First chance I'll get to get my bike out will be Collie 11 April.
I'll let the old man know though, but I don't think he's in Perth until about 23rd Mar
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First chance I'll get to get my bike out will be Collie 11 April.
Don't forget to bring an extra throttle cable this time ;)
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not nice!!!! but good!!lol
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Could you let me know where you got the rod kit from as I think I am up for one as well Thanks.
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got a kit from http://www.vintagedirtbikeparts.net/ cost $155.00
Though have been dealing with a great guy Steve (Flash) Ling at Steve Ling ([email protected]). He quoted genuine Rod at 350.00. have had some great discussions with him and he's checking the validity of the Rod kit from Vintage Dirt bikes (might not be a genuine one,though i have no complaints yet) whether it is actually for the 81 KTM. Will see when it turns up.
Steve's a really helpful guy, tell him barry sent you
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Great website,
Please let me know what you think of the rod kit when you get it. Thanks for your help,
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send an email to flash as well tell him I sent you. he is great will give you heap of advice. he even has rebuilt cranks for $300.00
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Help, I'm having problems fitting the head stem race and bearings. When i fit the inner race into the head (flush) and then place the bearings and outer race on the stem I am unable to do the nut up, doesn't even get close any ideas. I have onwe but that involves the tip!!!!
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I think I might have found the problem. I believe I have the wrong length head stem total length 220mm, length from groove to top of thread 190mm, Head length 180mm. No way will it fit together. Damn basket cases!!!!!!
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Go to here: http://www.ktm495.mxbikes.com/Frame-KTM-1981-All.pdf (http://www.ktm495.mxbikes.com/Frame-KTM-1981-All.pdf)
This will download the parts manual for the chassis.
On page 24 Diagram 03b, you will notice the head stem has a measurement of 'b' for the Frame part #1.
As per parts book :
(head stem length) b
=150mm for '80 mod 350/390
=150mm for '81 mod 250/390/420
=180mm for 495
Also to note is that there are two different measurements from the swingarm pivot point to the top shock mount (c to c). As follows:
350/390 mod '80 - a=250mm
350/390/420/495 mod '81 - a=270mm
Other differences occur in the swingarm lengths between all bikes also depending if they are GS or MX. Check the manual. ie 554mm,600.5mm,554mm,569mm,584mm.
Depending on which frame you have also determines the shock length as well.
Study the manual, and also read the remarks next to part numbers stating MX/GS or other information.
Triple clamps are offset differently from the '80 swept back mount style to the '81. Checked this the other day.
Hope this helps.
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thank you oh, Guru. I cannot find my parts manual anywhere, I think the wife threw it away. Well item B on my frame is 180mm, and i have another head stem coming as the one i have definitely doesn't fit
Cheers
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fixed the head stem problem and then!!!! the top plate of the triple clamps falls apart in my hands. Something tells me this project wasn't meant to be!!! Anyone got a top plate
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talk about frustration!!! honestly I just took the two bolts out and touched it
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It could be worst......maybe.....
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They are VERY fragile >:(. Its has been over tightend. Maybe with no forks fitted.
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stick with it Tossa, it you are getting frustrated walk away a a few days then revisit.
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I klnow that statement well. I was hoping to mock up the frame before leaving next w/e for trip to karajini, Exmouth and Shark bay for a fortnight. The idea being that the motor could be ready when i get back from trip. Now everything put back 3 weeks. I'm hoping to take it out for the manjimup 1500 (June 6). Still hopeful but not confident!!lol
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and Barry - you dare to have a go at me about seals!!!!
Sorry to see mate
cheers
Rossco
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I cringed when i put this up, knowing you would be surfing, looking for revenge!!!LOL
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Not as (physically) painfull as if it happened when you're riding it........ :-X
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PM me your contacts I might be able to find you one. ;)
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It would have been that shit red Honda paint that caused the fracture.
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I'm back from meditation in the bush, well took the wife for a holiday. Still searching for a top clamp, have got the 1980 model clamp with the angled handlebar support but would prefer the sort i have broken. Got a rod kit today from the states that actually fits(thanks Steve at SunriseKTM), so things might still happen. Oh the frustation and yeah davey, bloody wrong colour, that's what comes from living in WA, lol!!!
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If you get desperate post it me and Ill weld, aneal it and ream it. Of course if it breaks and you die I have never herd of you. ;D
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If you get desperate post it me and Ill weld, aneal it and ream it. Of course if it breaks and you die I have never herd of you. ;D
So I gather from that statement you were unable to find one!!lol
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I havent yet looked everywhere but hope is fading. You could get Kev Franks to make you one.
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I had a look on ebay everywhere the other night for you but also couldnt find one. Hve you tried any of the KTM forums, particularly in Europe?
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been using contacts all other place, seems they are like the preverbable hens teeth
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loks like a new front end then (from another model) or a billet one T?
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Have the 80 front end but head stem different length so will have to press them off and have them pressed on to the 81 model stem. Also clamps are offset diferently so will change steering angle. Oh what fun. But am waiting for a reply after the weekend as i have someone checking their shed. Fingers. legs, etc crossed.
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I have refurbished Ohlins with Gas reservior connected by flexible tubing. Question is whether they are placed on the down tubing or the Top horizintal frame tubing. Anybody running the same gear.
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Mitch..what size are the forks....35mm or 38mm....??
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I have noticed that there is a very clean top clamp (only) on Ebay at the moment....seller is in Canada....
may be worth a look...
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38mm
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wouldn't have the link would you
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Look closely at the pic in this link for shock mounting:
(http://www.ktm495.mxbikes.com/KTMad-80.jpg)
and this
(http://www.huskyclub.com/1980KTM250Project.jpg)
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got it, thanks for that, much appreciated
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yeah i searched ebay canada only and couldnt find it so i guess you just bought it now thats why ;D
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it was under can am, ended up being a 40mm but nice to know others are trying to help
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no wonder i couldnt find it. I will ask my friend in USA who has a early 80's KTM.
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would that be Steve Ling
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no
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Ok, thanks
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are these any good? They are 38mm marzocchi
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1980-Can-Am-400-MX6-Triple-Trees-Triple-Clamp-For-Mount_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3efe4d15bbQQitemZ270554437051QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
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Damn,they look the same as the 1980 KTM ones which is what I'm trying not to place on the bike due to the differing offset.
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http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/largephoto.cgi?C=wDzDs83hpG1gv3bW
http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/swapmeet.cgi#top
These are worth a look
DG Works Marzocchi 38mm Triple Clamps. These are very trick and will get those YZ models turning! Fit's YZ G models as well as most others with 38mm forks. Great condition and very cool. Timken bearings are in great shape. Have your stem pressed in from other models as well.
$95.00 + Shipping
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Yeah i was wondering about that, I've sent a couple of emails to people on the site regardign the clamp, but no luck
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Ok things now coming together and the bike coming together. With still the usual problem and frustations with this beast. Needed to use a bottle jack to fit the rear engine mount swing arm. needed the jack to frame apart for ease of fitting, yeah right!! the jack wouldn't work, damn go buy another jack. So just waiting on some parts LBR Brad and darryl where's my pipe and accoutrement!!!. Anyway this is how it is at the moment
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It will look smick once you fit one of Darryl's pipes. If you getting nickle plated one it maybe the hold up getting the nickle done or it could be just to dam cold in Darryl's shed at night ;)
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just getting a painted one, it just that every time the boys are about to send me stuff i find another piece I needed chain guides and sprocket cover. i reckon me email address is the last thing brad needs to see at the moment.
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How did you fix your top clamp problem?
I have Brads home number if you need it. I'm about to ring him to talk bikes for CD7.
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spoken to brad a few times, he's solved a lot of small niggling problem for me. in fact there has been some really great help from a heap of guys, made the hitting of the head against the wall a lot easier to take.
I ended up having to press the 1980 clamps
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ok, haven't updated this for awhile so here we go. First of all after putting the motor back in and ordering a pipe from the Lewis boys it was discovered after looking at the photos of the motor that The barrel and head are not from a 390 but probably from a 400, that was studded and bored for a 390, which delayed the pipe that Daryll made
After putting the motor back in, needed to have the flywheel shaft retapped as the stator nut had cross threaded. Got that done. Heaps of parts From brad and Daryll Lewis including a beautiful pipe. Now at this point it was connected everything up, put a earth wire from the stator to the coil. NO SPARK. Stator taken out and sent to be rewound, shop says we have spark everything good. Got the bike home no spark. Sent it back to the shop, they removed the resistor spark plug cap, got spark, got it home no spark. Noted they didn't replace the earth wire so sent it back, got it back no spark. So chat to Brad, send email to Steve Ling
I was certain that if it was anything it was the coil, so one of the guys (Paul Copley) lent me a coil. Now this is where I learnt about there being two different coils and three different stators. No spark with the coil I tried.
Now today one othe guys (Alan machin) brought the gear over including a coil of his Husky he rode at Southern Cross and even he had problems with this beast. But we now HAVE SPARK!!!!! and fired the beast up, damn its got some compression. A very happy man, no need for sex for awhile, got my rocks of just listening to this thing, so did the old man and Alan.
Now have ordered a coil and a couple of other pieces from Brad, bike will be ready to display at the VMXWA 15th Anniversary, with a few pre85 bikes, probably not get any attention except from those who have had to hear me continually talk about this bike. Photo's will come when I finally put it together. YEAH BABY!!!!
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That's great hope you can post some pics soon,
I rode Brad's 390 at CD7 with new shocks valved to Darrells spec's they were so good the $750.00 they cost seems tiny for how much better they are. My love for 390 is great again and I'n naggin Brad to find me enough part's to build one.
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photo's should be up after next weekeend. Now all of got to do is ride it, problem is i work shift work so might be a few weeks yet. Faith will then be totally restored!!!
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well basically the bike is now still together though having great problems with the thread on the crank (flywheel), basically it's stuffed. brad Lewis has come up with the idea to try a 10mm "hercules" left hand thread. So waiting for the nut to come and we'll try cutting the htread back from 12mm to 10mm otherwise don't know what to do other than get another crank. Means pulling the whole motor down. Anyway have put the bike together for the pre85MXWA display at the VMXWA 15th Anniversary this weekend, doesn't look that red hot, but at least people will get an idea of where i'm going with it. Go for it people all comments. complaints greatly received.
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Looks the goods I reckon'. Well done! :)
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looks pretty good Tossa - congrats!
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Bike looks great I know you will love it.
What type of clutch leaver did you use?
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just an off the shelf metal one, only time will tell!!lol
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Hmm I'm thinking about a genuine YZ one like my 2009 YZ but there $70.00
My 77 250 is starting to look more like 5k than 3.5k I budgeted so I,m trying to cut back.
Building Bikes from Ebay one part at a time gets expensive FAST!
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this thing has cost an absolute fortune, and still more to come. Haven't even thought of putting the cost on paper, it's bloody horrendous!!!
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(http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww283/bmitches/others/RIMG0032.jpg)
looks Notch to me, i love the white era KTM's.
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Tossa,great looking bike mate,its a credit to you I reckon.
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The Gazzi shocks are cheap for how well they work just get Brad to get you a pair the same as he runs on his. I will do a 390 next year.
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just had the ohlins refurbished cost around $500, so we'll see how they go. Have looked at the Gazzi (VMX) shocks, interesting
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Hey Bazza, this (your old KTM 390 ) runs like a bear with a bigger bear after it. Off the line its quicker than my HL500........and thats got some poke on take off.
Its going on display at the Bike show next weekend if you want to have a drool.
Heh, heh, heh.......... I bet your pissed.........................
Cheers Richo. ;D