OzVMX Forum

Marque Remarks => Suzuki => Topic started by: BAHNZY on December 01, 2009, 11:13:17 am

Title: RM Leading/Trailing Front Brake Identification
Post by: BAHNZY on December 01, 2009, 11:13:17 am
Can anyone help with identifying this brake assembly?
When purchased it was for a 84 RM125. It certainly fits the 84 125 front hub and has been modified to fit up to the WP4054 forks, but when I come to order a new set of shoes nothing comes close. The main issue centers around the rotation point of the shoe. On the pieces in the pic’s below you can see a radius on the shoe where it locates into the backing plate whereas the ones that are ordered for a 83/84-RM250/500 and 84-RM125 have a the reverse of this where the shoe locates onto a pin rather than into a boss.

The only markings on the shoes are AKB-120G0 and aside from MAGNESIUM, there are no other identifying marks on the backing plate.

Bahnsy

(http://www.wideopenflatout.com/RM_Brakes/Back%20Plate%20Fr.JPG)

(http://www.wideopenflatout.com/RM_Brakes/Back%20Plate%20Rr.JPG)

(http://www.wideopenflatout.com/RM_Brakes/Shoe.JPG)
Title: Re: RM Leading/Trailing Front Brake Identification
Post by: Mick D on December 01, 2009, 11:56:49 am
Hi Banshy, I am thinking I may have an answer for you?
It would be nice to know the drum diameter and the width of the shoe but first.
Cheers, Mick.
Title: Re: RM Leading/Trailing Front Brake Identification
Post by: LWC82PE on December 01, 2009, 12:36:09 pm
It looks nothing like my RM TLS brake plates so i would say it isnt. What you have there is a Honda CR/XR/XL TLS brake plate ;)
Title: Re: RM Leading/Trailing Front Brake Identification
Post by: BAHNZY on December 01, 2009, 03:36:42 pm
At work so don't have access to the drum, will check that tonight. The shoes are 25mm wide.
Title: Re: RM Leading/Trailing Front Brake Identification
Post by: asasin on December 01, 2009, 03:45:21 pm
I got my ones relined and then fitted to the hub , they work as good as Discs but not when wet!!
Title: Re: RM Leading/Trailing Front Brake Identification
Post by: suzuki27 on December 02, 2009, 12:03:43 pm
Not RM for mine. I will go with Honda too.
Title: Re: RM Leading/Trailing Front Brake Identification
Post by: EVO450 on December 02, 2009, 08:20:40 pm
Could be the same as this unit from an XR/XL500 '80 & 81 mod. fits 130mm drum
Evo

(http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss315/EVO450/ITProject017.jpg)

(http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss315/EVO450/ITProject018.jpg)
Title: Re: RM Leading/Trailing Front Brake Identification
Post by: holeshot buddy on December 02, 2009, 09:50:37 pm
looks like honda 2 me
Title: Re: RM Leading/Trailing Front Brake Identification
Post by: Mick D on December 02, 2009, 10:13:35 pm
At work so don't have access to the drum, will check that tonight. The shoes are 25mm wide.
Bit of a guessing competion without the relevant drum dimension.
I am thinking maybe 78, 79 K3/k4 Honda XL250  ??? they look the same type of shoe and they are the only 25mm wide ones that I have seen in that style, but they run a 160mm drum ??? 80/81 XL/XR 500 ones are all 30mm wide, I think.
 
Title: Re: RM Leading/Trailing Front Brake Identification
Post by: LWC82PE on December 02, 2009, 10:20:47 pm
This is what it is

130 x 25

Honda CR480 81/82, CR250 81-82, XR 250 81-83,  XR500 81-82

Problem solved.

Title: Re: RM Leading/Trailing Front Brake Identification
Post by: Mick D on December 02, 2009, 11:04:52 pm
This is what it is

130 x 25

Honda CR480 81/82, CR250 81-82, XR 250 81-83,  XR500 81-82

Problem solved.


With respect Leigh, All Honda CR480 81/82, CR250 81-82, XR 250 81-83,  XR500 81-82 FRONT TLShoes are 30mm wide.  Bahnsy has stated his are 25mm wide? I do agree the backing plate looks like honda. Maybee bahnsys shoes are 30mm not 25mm as stated. But I am starting to feel like without all the correct relevant requiered info in the first place, that this topic is a poisoned bait.

BWT FORK It’s only a "friendly" guessing competition "at this stage", and we are still waiting for  Bahnsy to state the drum size, aren't we??

Maybe the puzzle won’t be solved until Bahnsy puts up the drum diameter.
But at the end of the day, Who gives a Flying Fork. Anyone?

Cheers, Mick. 
Title: Re: RM Leading/Trailing Front Brake Identification
Post by: BAHNZY on December 03, 2009, 03:48:21 pm
In retrospect, measuring the drum diameter is pointless as the drum that I have is the RM unit and obviously not the correct hub for what I was told was an RM125 backing plate.

As it appears, the brake unit is a Honda of some origin; I just need to understand what one it is. As noted previously, the shoes that are fitted to the backing plate are 25 mm wide units. Given the amount of machine work thus far to get this unit matched to the Suzuki wheel and the WP forks, I ain’t going to go looking for a Suzuki unit and start over again.
Title: Re: RM Leading/Trailing Front Brake Identification
Post by: LWC82PE on December 03, 2009, 05:51:48 pm
SBS book says 130 x 25mm for those Hondas.  EBC says 130 x 30. RM is 130 x 22. I am only trying to help.

Is there a chance the 30mm shoes have been made narrower to be 25mm? I cant find any 130 x 25 TLS shoes that look like the ones above.
Title: Re: RM Leading/Trailing Front Brake Identification
Post by: Mick D on December 03, 2009, 09:01:26 pm
SBS book says 130 x 25mm for those Hondas.  EBC says 130 x 30. RM is 130 x 22. I am only trying to help.

  Me too Liegh.
           And that’s fair enough. 
At work so don't have access to the drum, will check that tonight. The shoes are 25mm wide.
In retrospect, measuring the drum diameter is pointless as the drum that I have is the RM unit and obviously not the correct hub for what I was told was an RM125 backing plate.

As it appears, the brake unit is a Honda of some origin; I just need to understand what one it is. As noted previously, the shoes that are fitted to the backing plate are 25 mm wide units. Given the amount of machine work thus far to get this unit matched to the Suzuki wheel and the WP forks, I ain’t going to go looking for a Suzuki unit and start over again.
         And as far as your problem goes Bahnsy, I have been spending some time studying the same catalogues that Leigh has, in an effort to help you. Frankly it’s like trying to help someone decipher his broken  stone hieroglyphics tablet, while he’s still hiding the missing corner piece in his back pocket. Best of luck with that Bahnsy,  I hope you sort it.


     Merry Christmas.
         Cheers, mick.     
Title: Re: RM Leading/Trailing Front Brake Identification
Post by: LWC82PE on December 03, 2009, 09:15:36 pm
Ok I can live with a mistake once but I should point out its not Leigh its Leith and pronounced Layth.  Dont worry i get it all the time. Thankyou

As for the shoes i guess we shall see but i reckon they are machined down 30's or they are some aftermarket ones as obviously the catalogues vary one says 25mm wide and one 30mm.
Title: Re: RM Leading/Trailing Front Brake Identification
Post by: Mick D on December 03, 2009, 11:09:09 pm
Ok I can live with a mistake once but I should point out its not Leigh its Leith and pronounced Layth.  Dont worry i get it all the time. Thankyou

As for the shoes i guess we shall see but i reckon they are machined down 30's or they are some aftermarket ones as obviously the catalogues vary one says 25mm wide and one 30mm.

Cheers Leith.
Title: Re: RM Leading/Trailing Front Brake Identification
Post by: BAHNZY on December 04, 2009, 12:40:30 pm
Thanks for the help guys, but I can't help feeling that I have some people off-side.

From the outset I clearly stated the issue;
1.   I purchased the front brake hub (from a fellow forum member) under the belief that it was originally from a Twin Leading RM bike.
2.   I modified the unit to fit the WP drum brake lower knuckle and 84 RM125 wheel.
3.   I ordered a set of 84 RM Twin Leading Bendix brake shoes and subsequently they did not fit.
4.   This thread was created with as much info that I had plus detailed pictures asking for some help.
5.   It was quickly identified that it was not a RM Twin Leading set up, rather a Honda unit of some version.
6.   I was asked for the width of the shoes, which I provided.

I’m not sure what I have posted that has riled people to post some of the comments that are in this thread. If someone could please explain what it is that has them so cantankerous it would be appreciated as I don’t grasp what it is that I have written that would bring this about.

I started out totally in the dark now I am ½ way there as at least I know what brand it is, now I am just trying to establish what model it may be given the pieces I have. I don’t expect an answer such as (1982 CR480 SBS P/No:124X) just a basic idea of where to look.
Title: Re: RM Leading/Trailing Front Brake Identification
Post by: BAHNZY on December 04, 2009, 01:38:41 pm
Leith,
Double checked the shoes and there is no evidence of machine work. The casting surfaces are consistent across the shoe. I have been told that I will have the hubs back from the Blaster/Powder Coaters tonight so I will measure the front hub, I’m just not sure that it will do much other than confuse the issue as it is a Suzuki hub. I also checked the SBS, BENDIX, EBC catalogues and they specify different width shoes ranging from 22 to 25 to 30mm but their X-reference guides point them back to each other so I guess that one of them has a typo, won’t know till I order a set and check the book Vs the actual part.

I have found over the years that the EBC book is pretty good and they list the following.
Checking the dimensions and pictures, the only Honda Twin Leading that uses a boss is the 327 series, but they list them as a 130 x 30, which co-incidentally is the same ID as the RM125/250/500 at 130 x 22. This would explain why I didn’t pick up that there was excessive clearance (or not) when I matching the parts up to the forks.

The anomaly in all of this is the shoes that I have are 25mm wide shoes where they should be (via EBC) 30mm.

HONDA
331/331G
CR125R    83 F&R
CR125R    84-85 R
CR250R    83-85 R
XR350R    83 F
CR480R    83 R
CR500R    84-85 R
130 x 22 (Utilising a pin to pivot the shoes)

HONDA
327/327G
CR250R    81- F
XR250R    Pro Link 81-82 F
CR450R    81 F
CR480R    82 F
XR500R    Pro Link 81-82 F
130 x 30 (Utilising a boss to pivot the shoes)

HONDA
328/ 328G
CR250R    82-83 F
CR480R    83 F
130 x 22 (Utilising a pin to pivot the shoes)
Title: Re: RM Leading/Trailing Front Brake Identification
Post by: Mick D on December 04, 2009, 03:04:53 pm
Hi Banshy, I am thinking I may have an answer for you?
It would be nice to know the drum diameter and the width of the shoe but first.
Cheers, Mick.
         Ah Bahnsy. I probably should have just looked up this link for you in the first place.
EBC MOTORCYCLE BRAKE GUIDE (http://www.ebcbrakes.com/motorcycle_brake/index.shtml)
          As you would realize now Bahnsy that with unsure model specifics the first thing a shop or a catalouge will ask you for, is the same for a bearing, seal or brake shoe. That is the basic nominal dimensions to accompany an image.
I had already resigned to wrap up my thoughts as I exit this topic once again with the same ending that I thought as before.

           Best of luck with that Bahnsy,  I hope you sort it.
     
and I mean that,
      Merry Christmas, I hope everyone has a you bueat and safe Christmas, and that the next 2010 season of vintage racing is our best ever.                    
         Cheers, mick.