OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Tech Talk => Topic started by: Mick D on November 21, 2009, 01:47:55 pm
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Hello all,
This is an endeavour to get a CLEAR answer, so I can proceed with my project or stop wasting my time.
FIRKO, you are possible a prime candidate to do us all a favour here. You like to dabble with custom constructions and you are an accredited MA scrutineer with contacts to the governing body for advice and determinations.
I know it isn’t like you have nothing else to do Firko, but a correct answer would be a good answer. It would be appreciated to say the least. Even if it is not what I want to hear.
MY PROJECT; I have a spare Alpha one Maico chassis. The rear swing arm, wheel, brake and suspension components are ridiculously and needlessly heavy. I have found a single shock, alloy arm rear end out of a compliance plated 1984 bike of a completely different brand. It bolts straight in. Depending then on shock choices, the bike could be set up for MX or a lower dirt tracker. The change over components are less than two thirds the weight of the same Maico components. The change over components were all manufactured prior to 1985. Can I ?
While I am hear Firko, I may as well ask another question. I am developing an 83 490 spider engine, on methanol. Can I make up some custom mounting plates and put that into this pre-85 Dirt Tracker as well?
Cheers, Mick.
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The first answer is an easy one. Both your bike and the components you want to fit are both pre 85 so its all good.
I think the second answer would be yes as well. So its yes yes in my book. One more yes and it would sound like a porn movie.... not that I watch such things! ::)
Cheers, Fiko. ;D
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The first answer is an easy one. Both your bike and the components you want to fit are both pre 85 so its all good.
I think the second answer would be yes as well. So its yes yes in my book. One more yes and it would sound like a porn movie.... not that I watch such things! ::)
Cheers, Fiko. ;D
Thanks Brad,
I see quite a few enthusiasts enjoy building and refining “Hot Rods”, particularly in the Dirt Track scene. I was very impressed with Pete's blue and white Yamaha at the DT Nats. I really like the idea of a two wheeled methanol madness Drag Racer on Dirt.
Cheers, Mick.
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so your going to put 2 shocks on a linkage frame ,are you moveing to holland as well
that a no from me :o
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so your going to put 2 shocks on a linkage frame ,are you moveing to holland as well
that a no from me :o
WTF, I think you need to read it again Paul ::)
Back to the lab now Egor.
Cheers, Mick.
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:D well thatsa im not sure then lol
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so your going to put 2 shocks on a linkage frame ,are you moveing to holland as well
that a no from me :o
mmmmm?? that might lessen the weight even more? but I was thinking single shock for reasons like keeping the Center of Gravity more forward and more concentrated.
Cheers, Mick.
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Mick, I'm with Brad on this. If everything fits into the pre '85 time zone....Bobs Your Uncle (Does anybody say that any more? ::)) As far as question 2, I read that that you're using a frame made for something else. Without knowing the specifics I'd reckon it'd be pretty right for pre '85.
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mick just what the doctor ordered
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170408129565&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT
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Mick, I'm with Brad on this. If everything fits into the pre '85 time zone....Bobs Your Uncle (Does anybody say that any more? ::)) As far as question 2, I read that that you're using a frame made for something else. Without knowing the specifics I'd reckon it'd be pretty right for pre '85.
Thanks Firko,
One more thing now. Not that I was thinking this way, but after Pauls comment so your going to put 2 shocks on a linkage frame ,are you moveing to holland as well
that a no from me :o
That would be a "NO" here in Australia wouldn't it? That is taking a single shock swingarm from a 84 and a single shock frame and changing mounts etc to a twin shock? sort of even sounds like a stupid question. But if you have any answer Firko I am all ears?
Cheers Mick.
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mick just what the doctor ordered
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170408129565&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/BfQGwWkKGrHqYH-DoErgwiGhVKBLgeBfsHw.jpg?t=1258776730)
I am doing back flips, She is Beautiful :o
But it needs a swinging arm ??? Here we go again ::)
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yes ive been watching that as well thinking off getting you know who/ to put it in the container :o
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yes ive been watching that as well thinking off getting you know who/ to put it in the container :o
Should have PM me mate. Every man and his bull arab will be after it now.
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(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/BfQDpwBWkKGrHqYH-EQErgvIWRgBLgd3H3Z.jpg?t=1258777282)
That definately does it for me ::)
Cheers Mick.
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ive had no answers from him as yet but it would make a good weapon hey
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deleate the whole thread. and start again lol quick
Well actually I was thinking of of of, mmh on second thoughts I think I better not say what I was thinking.
Need cash quick.
Who wants to by some square barrel projects ???
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200 lol :D
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seems to sound alright but can you clarify this statement and perhaps reveal exactly what model bike the swing arm is from?
alloy arm rear end out of a compliance plated 1984 bike
Now is this a bike with a 1984 manufacture date on the compliance plate, most likely meaning its an 85 model or is it actually a 84 model? You would need to be 100% sure that just because the compliance plate says 84, that it is actually a 84 model and not a 85 model because the date on the compliance plate is not an indication of the model. If it is actaully a 85 model then i would say no to the arm unless it can be proven that the 85 swing arm is the exact same part number as the swing arm from the 84 model of the particular bike the swingarm is sourced from.
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ive had no answers from him as yet but it would make a good weapon hey
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/BfQDpwBWkKGrHqYH-EQErgvIWRgBLgd3H3Z.jpg?t=1258777282)
Imagine it finished ::) It wouldn't matter wether ya rode it, looked at it, felt it, sniffed it, held it, surely it would all be good :o
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Mick your Maico twin shock project wouldn't be much different to Peter Rowlands cool 'IZ' Yamaha tracker. It started life as an IT250H fitted with a similar vintage YZ465 engine. It slotted straight into the pre 85 class. It'd be a lot better than fitting the engine to an Astro frame..if you could find one. Brian Clarke fitted a 465 Yamaha engine to an Astro a few years ago and it apparently handled like a bucket of shit on our tracks, as most American flat track frames do. I'd use the Maico frame and suitably modifiy it as Pete has done in his thread.
http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=9177.0 (http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=9177.0)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/dirt%20track%20Nats%20005.jpg)
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firko last year or mabee a bit longer , i ask you firko if i could modify a alfa 1 frame to twin shocks and build a flat tracker outa it and you stated ,that it would be illegal.i even went as far as to ask brad for his spare alfa 1 parts to do it .but there in front off me there is a IT single shock modified frame with two shocks that now you say is ok
.whats the difference from one to the other thanks
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I don't remember Paul.. I doubt I said that but if I did I was wrong. Sue me ;D.
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yes well i dont tell lies either
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seems to sound alright but can you clarify this statement and perhaps reveal exactly what model bike the swing arm is from?
alloy arm rear end out of a compliance plated 1984 bike
Now is this a bike with a 1984 manufacture date on the compliance plate, most likely meaning its an 85 model or is it actually a 84 model? You would need to be 100% sure that just because the compliance plate says 84, that it is actually a 84 model and not a 85 model because the date on the compliance plate is not an indication of the model. If it is actaully a 85 model then i would say no to the arm unless it can be proven that the 85 swing arm is the exact same part number as the swing arm from the 84 model of the particular bike the swingarm is sourced from.
Thanks, but there will be no dispute as to the alloy swinging arm and rear wheel arrangement not being legit 1984 single shock rear end mass production items.
Cheers, Mick.
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Mick your Maico twin shock project wouldn't be much different to Peter Rowlands cool 'IZ' Yamaha tracker. It started life as an IT250H fitted with a similar vintage YZ465 engine. It slotted straight into the pre 85 class. It'd be a lot better than fitting the engine to an Astro frame..if you could find one. Brian Clarke fitted a 465 Yamaha engine to an Astro a few years ago and it apparently handled like a bucket of shit on our tracks, as most American flat track frames do. I'd use the Maico frame and suitably modifiy it as Pete has done in his thread.
http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=9177.0 (http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=9177.0)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/dirt%20track%20Nats%20005.jpg)
Thanks Firko,
and everyone else. I enjoyed snippets of that thread at the time, but was too busy to take it all in. I intend to amend that situation tonight, particularly as it looks as good in flesh as it does in the pictures. Have you tunned it and dialled it in yet Pete?
At the optimum I could not imaging anything worse than a friend winning a tittle on one of your Hot Rods, then loosing it to a protest because one hadn’t comprehended the rules properly in the first place. Unlikely, yeah maybe? But never say never.
While I have all his assistance, one more question please. I have tried fitting this new(old) 1984 swinging arm and lightweight wheel arragement, all that is needed by the way to make it fit into the back of the Maico is different bearings and a couple thin spacers. I tried it upsidedown as well without the linkage arrangement and varying single shockers I have will bolt straight into place. QUESTION; does this mean that the bike could now legally run in “EVO” classes? Given that everything else on it complies with “evo rules”? It is still a single shock all from the “era”, but without linkage just like a 1983 or 1984 “ATK” of the era.
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/ImageDeposit_dot_com_FREE_Hosting_B.jpg?t=1258791598)
I might add I am not cutting or welding anything, just changing bearings and adding spacers. Of course I will be taking the electric paint stripping heat gun to the air box and lower inner back guard, should I proceed
18.7.12.3 All components will be of the period the
machine was manufactured.
a) No linkage suspension,
b) No Disc brakes,
c) Air cooled motors.
Cheers and thanks for any help or advice on the matter, Mick
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With out reading the whole thing i would say if its all pre 85 component wise its all OK. The only protesting you could pull on doing it would be the bit where somewhere in the rules something says about shocks must be in the original position. NOW does that mean a mono must be in the mono position and you cant go to a new position ?
I'M not over the whole evo/ pre 85 thing, i just live in the pre 75 space where twin shocks are twin socks so there is not grey areas.
IF i was to say what i think i would say to my mind you should be able to use ANY available principle or technology pre 85 to build anything you like, even as a hand made special. Therefore so long as its air cooled and with no disks if that's the rules, everything else is PErfectly Legal OK.
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Therefore so long as its air cooled and with no disks if that's the rules, everything else is PErfectly Legal OK.
Thats the rules they run in Japan, makes life more interesting.
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/IMG_7857.jpg)
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BUt thats got a disk....
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BUt thats got a disk....
yeah he is cheating but nobody protested, seemed too bothered, too busy enjoying themselves like in the good old days.
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yeah he is cheating but nobody protested, seemed too bothered, too busy enjoying themselves like in the good old days.
What. Like in Horoshima?
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yeah he is cheating but nobody protested, seemed too bothered, too busy enjoying themselves like in the good old days.
What. Like in Horoshima?
I like your nosense sense of humor Ross. BTW its Hiroshima. ;D
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Your talking about that town where they played hide the atom bomb Brent.
I'm talking about the little known Japenese province down the highway a bit where motocross was a lot more laid back (and let's face it if you weren't getting atom bombs dropped on you, you'd probably enjoy your racing a whole lot more too...... :P)
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With out reading the whole thing i would say if its all pre 85 component wise its all OK. The only protesting you could pull on doing it would be the bit where somewhere in the rules something says about shocks must be in the original position.
Is that original position of the Yamaha or original position of the Honda in this case ;D ???
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/IMG_5896.jpg)