OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Suzuki => Topic started by: oldfart on November 19, 2009, 08:14:16 pm
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If your cashed up here's a bargain.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzuki-RM500-RM-500-465-400-370-250-Ahrma-Vintage-1983_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4a9c5dead9QQitemZ320450980569QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
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man that is sooooo cheap. they normally sell for 15 grand these days.
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How about this one?
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=255045170
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Dont know about the silver frost pipe on the first 1.
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How about this one?
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=255045170
It is minter, I know this bike, you will not find better one.
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before photos
(http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1p0IaJZ5bmlQkuN72ZGg9KJ4tEBw876vwDiS-UEdHvILfHJowyNvN46IlL-7-mCu4yyhriC36L_-ipH_QDkRNkkA/rm5001.jpg)
(http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pDD0Ea7MDob5c4gpHOCqPaYz_v2pdxEF8HjQg1fJJUrKdOzs3jWysWLRGQxv6SaDl_t0-FcmpfJBwoP1VYBx0bQ/rm5002.jpg)
This was ment to be a one onwer when i saw it advertised like this a few months ago still with all the aftermarket stuff as he fitted it so the silver Pro Circuit pipe might be original colour?
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Tidy find ;D. Its much easier when you get them complete & not cutup.
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man that is sooooo cheap. they normally sell for 15 grand these days.
15g??? Are they that rare??
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Nah I am just pumping up the price seeing I own one. ;D
But definitely one as good as the one for sale in New Zealand is rare/
Suzuki has a very strong following in NZ so it will get pretty good money.
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This has been floating around in my head for quite a while. I have 'possible' access to a basketcase '87 LT500 H Quadzilla engine. I was wondering how similar it is to the RM465/500 engine? I like the idea of building the ultimate RM Suzuki and need to know if the engine fits easily into a similar era RM frame? I got the idea back in the late 80's when I spotted just just such a machine in Laurie Aldertons workshop in Smithfield. Laurie has no recollection of the bike so besides wondering where it ended up, I'd like to build one just like it. Failing finding a suitable RM500 would the LT engine fit in the same era RM250 frame?
Would the project be feasible? Would it be legal for pre 90? I'd like the bike to look like a genuine factory job so was there a works watercooled 500 to base the appearance on?.
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Rewriting history ???
Go for it Firko, it will be good for you.
VMX42 ;D
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i was thinking about doing the same thing firko
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have a read here
http://forums.mxtrax.co.uk/showthread.php?t=257162
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Rewriting history
That's why I thought I'd ask if there was any precedent. After my beloved pre 1980 era I'm not such a stickler for history anyway. At least it'll still have it's original full floating (single) shock rear end, not like those pesky Belgians. ::)
If I decide to build it that is. The engine is a leftover from an American friends Quadzilla race years. He has a few of them but has to be convinced to sell me one. He's not keen on the idea right now but I can be persuasive when I need to be ;D.
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Ah ha You beauty!........I wouldn't be rewriting history at all by building a watercooled 500 according to the UK forum. Heron Suzuki raced them in an '84 frame. Some pretty good riders were on board them by the look of that list. Anyone got a shot of JJ Brunos works bike?
I'm getting even more enthusiastic now ;D.
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For a bit more about water cooled 500's and works 500's see here
http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=704.0
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i say build it, don't tell magoo but i love the RM500 and would love to see it in a watercooled configuration.
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Start with a 250 roller that way you have the RN500 looking frame and who knows radiators etc.
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Marty Moates rode an RM250 with a 500 engine in it in 1983.
Only an air cooled though.
I've got some good photos I took of it............................ somewhere.......................... :-\
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belongs to another forum member, awesome, but imagine it with water cooling.
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/rm545.png)
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Hi Tony
Marty Moates rode an RM250 with a 500 engine in it in 1983.
Only an air cooled though.
I've got some good photos I took of it............................ somewhere.......................... :-\
if you could dig up those photos of Marty's bike it would be great to see them...
cheers Jady
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Marty Moates rode an RM250 with a 500 engine in it in 1983.
Only an air cooled though.
I've got some good photos I took of it............................ somewhere.......................... :-\
Here are a couple of pics of my RM500 in a 250 frame (complete with dodgy tank stickers). Wish I knew the history of this bike. It was in pieces in my shed since I found it in the trading post in 2002; finally got it going this year for Viper. Someone on the old ozvmx forum said there were a few put together back in 1984. Don't know much more than that.
(http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad73/jadymulqueeney/RM500/RM500a-1.jpg)
(http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad73/jadymulqueeney/RM500/RM500b-1.jpg)
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excuse the ignorance but why the transplant - weren't the 250 and 500 frames very similar anyway for this/these years? What would be consider an advantage of doing this?
cheers
Rossco
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Firko,
Do your homework on the LT500 engine (i did). I had a 84 RM roller and a Water Cooled engine ready to go. I followed the Quad forums in the states on these engines & elected to not do it based on the $'s to get a LT500 bottom set up correctly. Essentially it releates to the LT's very thirsty appetive for main bearings and subsequent rod failures. I roughed it out that to get it done right would be around 2.5-3K to build a good engine, not including buying it in the 1st place.
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I had a 84 RM roller and a Water Cooled engine ready to go.
So what happened to the bits in the end. ;)
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excuse the ignorance but why the transplant - weren't the 250 and 500 frames very similar anyway for this/these years? What would be consider an advantage of doing this?
cheers
Rossco
I'm wondering the same myself!? An air cooled 500 into an aircooled 250 frame? Why. ??? Maybe a bit of weight saving but I'd imagine they put that extra weight into the 500 frame for a reason....... :-\
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Essentially it releates to the LT's very thirsty appetive for main bearings and subsequent rod failures. I roughed it out that to get it done right would be around 2.5-3K to build a good engine, not including buying it in the 1st place.
Ah Ha....That's obviously the reason my US friend has so many expired LT engines under the house. ;D That's also explain his lack of encouragement when I described the proposed project to him. I'd asked him why he hadn't done it himself and he simply told me that he didn't have enough money to throw into a bike that didn't come within a cooee of a CR500 or KX500. He actually raced desert on KX500s so it all falls into place now.
After having a little burl on the 490 Maico and being very impressed with Dean Burts RM400 and Husky Petes CR500 Husky Silver Bullet, my appetites been whetted to build and Evo or pre 85 bike. I'd like to keep the bike outside of the cookie cutter, every bike looks the same scheme of things, hence the watercooled RM500 idea. If Bahnsy and my mate Mike are cold on the idea I'll have another look at what's out there. I've got a soft spot for 465 Yamahas and wouldn't mind another ATK 605 or even a 406 so who knows what might come out of the shed next year. There are a few other projects to knock over first though.
Just in case I keep the Suzuki plan on the table, is the LT engine available Rod?
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speaking of quads friend of mine was having problems with his Banshee so repowered it ;D
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/zdjecia666.jpg)
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Rod/ bearing failures can usually be traced to 1 or 2 causes, lack of lubrication and over revving.
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exactly,Lozza, im sure its nothing a good knowledgeable mechanic or 2 stroke tuner can fix/prevent along with some quality parts so i wouldnt pay too much attention to those quad forums. And let me guess they were running 40 to 1 or something like that ::) thats probably half the reason for the big end failures.
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excuse the ignorance but why the transplant - weren't the 250 and 500 frames very similar anyway for this/these years? What would be consider an advantage of doing this?
cheers
Rossco
I'm wondering the same myself!? An air cooled 500 into an aircooled 250 frame? Why. ??? Maybe a bit of weight saving but I'd imagine they put that extra weight into the 500 frame for a reason....... :-\
The frames are totally different. It's an aircooled 500 into a watercooled '84 250 frame which got a lot of changes while the 500 frame remained the same from '81-'85.
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I remember reading about the 250/500 back in the day. I think the 250 frame had had a bit more tweaking over the years and subsequently was a little better on the track.
Why anyone would bother watercooling a 500 is beyond me. The engine never got any developement simply because everyone said that it always had plenty of power
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with a water cooled 500 there is less vibration
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And they are still make kits for them. ( water cooled )
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The problem with the LT500 engine is the housing area that holds the crank bearings in is alloy and fails quickly. In usa they modify them with a steel sleeve and never have a problem again.
I have been collecting part for my rm500e for the last 5 years and must say parts a thin on ebay usa. There is hardly ever any parts listed. I always thought they were dime a dozen. Yet lots of RM400 parts.
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I have been collecting part for my rm500e for the last 5 years and must say parts a thin on ebay usa. There is hardly ever any parts listed.
Maybe it is because more of the RM500s are still running. But you are right none seem to have been parted out in a long time on ebay.
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Zorroz is 100% on the money.
The bottom end (by today’s standards) is poorly engineered. With the torque and HP that these engines put out combined with a quad configuration where there is a lot more stress and strain on the engine, the main bearing location points go out of shape and eventually the main bearing spins in the housing, the crank goes out of alignment and the bottom end fails, generally in a catastrophic way. If you have an engine that has not got to that point, I was advised by those with experience that it is only a matter of time before it does. There is a few machine shops in the good old US of A that have jigs made up that line bore the cases & fit steel inserts for the bearings. They then balance the crank, which has to be done with a new rod and piston and you are good to go. By the time they supply the piston, rod, do the machine work and balance the crank it typically runs at about $1500 USD. Add to that a gasket kit, seals and bearings and the cost of buying the engine in the 1st place and you can see the $ quickly add up. Search the forums and you will quickly find this information.
I was also informed that if the water pump system is worn out and/or corroded, which is not unusual, then expect a further $500 for the bits to get it sorted. This does not surprise me as the water pump bearings, oil seal and the mechanical seal for my 84 RM125 project were more than $200, at a good price!
Firko, I sold the engine (which needed the above main bearing work) to a guy in Newcastle who is a die hard LTR fan. He told me that he only rides it at Stockton and reckons it the fastest thing there, not that I cared to much.
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Zorroz is 100% on the money.
The bottom end (by today’s standards) is poorly engineered. With the torque and HP that these engines put out combined with a quad configuration where there is a lot more stress and strain on the engine, the main bearing location points go out of shape and eventually the main bearing spins in the housing, the crank goes out of alignment and the bottom end fails, generally in a catastrophic way. If you have an engine that has not got to that point, I was advised by those with experience that it is only a matter of time before it does. There is a few machine shops in the good old US of A that have jigs made up that line bore the cases & fit steel inserts for the bearings. They then balance the crank, which has to be done with a new rod and piston and you are good to go. By the time they supply the piston, rod, do the machine work and balance the crank it typically runs at about $1500 USD. Add to that a gasket kit, seals and bearings and the cost of buying the engine in the 1st place and you can see the $ quickly add up. Search the forums and you will quickly find this information.
I was also informed that if the water pump system is worn out and/or corroded, which is not unusual, then expect a further $500 for the bits to get it sorted. This does not surprise me as the water pump bearings, oil seal and the mechanical seal for my 84 RM125 project were more than $200, at a good price!
Firko, I sold the engine (which needed the above main bearing work) to a guy in Newcastle who is a die hard LTR fan. He told me that he only rides it at Stockton and reckons it the fastest thing there, not that I cared to much.
Yup. Sounds like another one of those bikes that will be put together for under 800 bucks...... :-X
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. It's obvious now that the LT engine is crap. I didn't just take Bahnsys word, I googled the 'net and then rang Mike my friend in the USA who backed everything Rod said plus lots more. He's got "6 or 7" engines with spun mains and/or thrown rods gathering dust under his house. He told me that he eventually fitted a KX500 engine to one of his Quadzillas and he reports that it positively ripped! He said it was the quickest thing he'd ridden until he got his current Polaris. I didn't ask when talking to Mike (I should have) but I wonder if the the porting of the LT is in the same ballpark as the RM500 and whether the watercooled cylinder would fit the RM500 or even an earlier RM400 bottom end and if they do, is there a good readon for doing it?
I've been talked out of the LT/RM so it looks like a 465 Yamaha will probably get the treatment unless I can find a good early ATK 406 or even a 4T 560. I've got an '81 XL500 and have access to a Magnum Maico frame but as trick as they look, I don't like those kind of conversions much. You can spend your whole super on the Honda stroker and still be off the pace to a stock CR/KX/YZ/Maico/Husky 2 stroke 500. An IT 465H I know of may just be a good starter. Are they close enough to the YZ to make it a worthwhile project base?
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Why didn't anyone think to put an anti-rotation pin in the bearing?
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I can't speak for others Loz but my mate Mike did pin the bearing plus going to a lot of trouble welding a heavier billet boss to the cases. That mod worked best of all but that kind of work is expensive and out of the reach of the average bloke. Apparently the contributing factor to the bearing failure is the inadequate web casting strength around the main bearing area which causes the cases to flex or distort under load, the results being the bearings eventually spinning in the case and ..disaster. Pinning the bearing or even the steel sleeve does prevent the bearing from moving to a degree but the weakness in the cases are still there causing the load to be transferred to the next weakest area with resulting cases distorting and eventual bottom end siezure. Mike was sponsored by Suzuki USA through a big California Suzuki dealer network back in the early 80's so you can bet they had their top guys on the job trying to solve the problem. As Mike said, the only cure they found was welding a whole new heavy duty main bearing boss and fitting wider main bearings. He told me there were an unbelievable number of hours just welding and machining the one set of cases they did. He won the big Mammoth Mountain GP quad event with that engine in '83 or '84 and then promptly retired the bike and went back to desert buggy and snowmobile racing. He reckons the Quadzilla was a good thing while they held together and if you kept the revs low and used the torque by riding in a higher gear than you would normally. He said that no matter what you did, the quad would eventually blow up, no matter how well maintained it wass or how carefully it was ridden. He reckons Suzuki had big plans for the engine but after they started shitting thremselves they quickly fell out of love with the model and quietly retired from both the 500 MX and Quad classes. Mike now rides vet class on a Polaris and occasional VMX on his KX500 and Rokon 340. He reckons he'd love to take his Quadzilla for a blat but is scared it'd blow up so it's now a garage queen.
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just to back up an earlier coment re spares - when restoing my 250 the guy from Suzuki said I was lucky I didn't have a 500 as any and all spares were as rare as hen's teeth!
Rossco
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Rossco they are still out there,if anyone needs some goodies send me a PM. I have some odds and sods i.e the rare as hens teeth inside and outside chain guide plates for the 500E/F plus more....
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Check this RM500 engine - center port exhaust thats something I've never seen.
(http://forums.mxtrax.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=24451&d=1259700904)
http://forums.mxtrax.co.uk/showthread.php?t=257162&page=5 (http://forums.mxtrax.co.uk/showthread.php?t=257162&page=5)
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Could it be out of a quad bike.. were they aircooled?
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yep if you read that forum thread on the UK forum, you can read that there was a UK dealer back then that was modifying standard RM500 barrels or specially making center port barrels so they could fit the 500 motor in the 250 frame or something like that. I read a thread on it a month or so ago.
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This one still cruising Viper.? cheers
Marty Moates rode an RM250 with a 500 engine in it in 1983.
Only an air cooled though.
I've got some good photos I took of it............................ somewhere.......................... :-\
Here are a couple of pics of my RM500 in a 250 frame (complete with dodgy tank stickers). Wish I knew the history of this bike. It was in pieces in my shed since I found it in the trading post in 2002; finally got it going this year for Viper. Someone on the old ozvmx forum said there were a few put together back in 1984. Don't know much more than that.
(http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad73/jadymulqueeney/RM500/RM500a-1.jpg)
(http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad73/jadymulqueeney/RM500/RM500b-1.jpg)
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Haven't made it to any Viper races this year :( :( :(
Thanks to knee problems and other troubles, I've hardly ridden at all this year. Hoping to get back into it by end of year.
Now I'm looking for a modern alloy frame RMZ250 or 450 with a dead motor, to fit my spare RM500 motor into. That would be a nice bike. After riding a mate's KX500AF and CR500AF, I've discovered some sort of enlightenment about what fun these amazing bikes are to ride, which made me think, why not a Suzuki RM500AF too?
cheers Jady
This one still cruising Viper.? cheers
Marty Moates rode an RM250 with a 500 engine in it in 1983.
Only an air cooled though.
I've got some good photos I took of it............................ somewhere.......................... :-\
Here are a couple of pics of my RM500 in a 250 frame (complete with dodgy tank stickers). Wish I knew the history of this bike. It was in pieces in my shed since I found it in the trading post in 2002; finally got it going this year for Viper. Someone on the old ozvmx forum said there were a few put together back in 1984. Don't know much more than that.
(http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad73/jadymulqueeney/RM500/RM500a-1.jpg)
(http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad73/jadymulqueeney/RM500/RM500b-1.jpg)
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Would it be sacrilage to fit an RM500 motor to a modern frame?
(http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad73/jadymulqueeney/RM500/RM500AF.jpg)
Apologies for the poor photoshop work there...
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Probably not but I reckon' it'd be more of a headache than it's worth! I don't think choppin' and welding away at these modern Aluminum frames is the hot ticket unless you really know what you're doing (there's an opening for ya Ji, "Modifying Alum frame bikes for dummies").
Make the world a better place by stickin' it into an RM 500 frame... 8)
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Just do it. It will be quite easy just take care with chain alignment.
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Yeah. Nah. He's right. Couldn't be much harder than photshoppin' it...... ::)
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Now I'm looking for a modern alloy frame RMZ250 or 450 with a dead motor, to fit my spare RM500 motor into. That would be a nice bike. After riding a mate's KX500AF and CR500AF, I've discovered some sort of enlightenment about what fun these amazing bikes are to ride, which made me think, why not a Suzuki RM500AF too?
cheers Jady
Jady ,Hope you knee heals quickly for you.I have just had a read of VMX magazine #34 page 20,and I believe if you had a gander it may give you an appreciation of what you have. :P :P If you fail in this endeavor ,don't forget that there are people out there that may require your 500 engine ;) ;D ;).yours in all things yellow-pre85 convert Alison
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This bike is pure scrap ! :P :P :P
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Suzuki-RM-500-not-CR480-YZ465-/280533923313?cmd=ViewItem&pt=AU_Motorcycles&hash=item41511ff5f1