OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Maico => Topic started by: Husky500evo on November 10, 2007, 10:54:35 pm
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I seem to have started a bit of a storm in a teacup amongst the Yamaha camp , Where Tony B ( a former Maico rider ) claims that an '81 Maico 490 is not twice as good as a YZ465 ::) . I tend to disagree ;) . The Yamaha boys seem to have their panties in a bunch over the lack of an aftermarket sidepanel that will correctly fit their bikes :) . I was going to suggest that they should make some from toilet seats , as shown in the resto tips section :) . But then I realised that they would probably be over-capitalising , as the toilet seats would be worth more than the bike ( & probably be a more comfortable ride as well). ;D
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Touche. Nice Work
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i will not be drawn into this silly argument as i like both the yz465 and maico 490 mega2.Both are awesome bikes but maybe the vmx mag could do a comparo on the both of them against one another head to head...now that would make for some interesting reading guys ...what do ya reckon.... ;D
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i will not be drawn into this silly argument as i like both the yz465 and maico 490 mega2.Both are awesome bikes but maybe the vmx mag could do a comparo on the both of them against one another head to head...now that would make for some interesting reading guys ...what do ya reckon.... ;D
Sounds like that would be a best selling issue of VMX mag to me ;)
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Ask Expat, I'm sure he has both bikes, a shoot-out would be cool though. But all you Maico boys, I feel sorry for ya, as ya may have won the battle, but you didnt win the war ;) ;D,
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Yamaha 465's rule 465's rule 465's rule 465's rule 465's rule 465's rule 465's rule, look into my forum maico people, your eyes are feeling heavy they are closing you feel relaxed somewhat sleepy now repeat after me Yamaha 465's rule Yamaha 465's rule ....
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Maico's are leading one race by far.
They are arguably one of the most sought after MX'ers of all time and are leading the field by a huge margin on resale (and sale) prices, lol
490's are pulling huge $$$'s and are benefitted by a well supported supply of aftermarket industry parts which will hopefully see many more stay on the track, and encourage others out there.
And yeah a shoot out would be a great idea VMX mag - but don't forget the Austrian bike and the rest of the Japs. Tha last 250 shoot out was a good read.
See you at the back of the pack !!! ;)
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Well I did have the '82 Mega 2 and YZ465's at same time.........but sold the Mega 2 :-\
Very different rides though.........My Maico had a beautifully smooth motor for an open classer ;), VERY smooth( rebuilt by Maico specialist) ..also the clutch was smoothest Ive ever used.........All my YZ465's are rough as hell :(....even with freshly rebuilt cranks.)
My Maico front brake was evil...Though I didn't put much effort into improving it, it was clear to me that I would not be lining it up in an open class race with that front stopper. :o
Maico was a smoother ride, easy to ride... Yz is just different.
The Maico DID 'feel' like quality while the YZ feels like just another old bike( sorry DJ)..........Having said that..........I would happily line the YZ465 up against any Maico 490 ;D
How they compare in a shoot out will be interesting.....Maico may get the overall nod of approval :-X ...but the YZ will be right in there just getting on with its job ;D
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I might have to settle this argument by buying one....
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330188423631&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:Watchlink:middle:au
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JOIN THE QUE ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hey hilly just ask the maico boy's how many world titles they won and get them to ask you how many yamaha won ::) ::)
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good point there Gator ! ;D
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"Maico had always enjoyed the reputation of making the best-handling motocross bikes money could buy, but the bike's fatal flaw was reliability. If it wasn't the ignition, it was the clutch or the transmission or some other part that would fail, leaving the Maico pilot a spectator. Such failures had cost the grand old marque two 500cc world championships with Ake Jonsson and Willie Bauer.
The Magnum engine was released in 1978 and made huge strides in improving the "Maico Breako" public image, but 1981 was without question the high-water mark for the German manufacturer's Open-class offering, the mighty 490. To this day, many still consider the 490 to be the best Open-class motocross bike ever built. It struck a near-perfect balance in power, chassis design and suspension. Had the factory been able to afford the services of a truly world-caliber rider it may have well put itself on a different course for the future. As circumstances would have it, Maico's success was short-lived, with the '82 machines suffering again from suspension reliability problems. Sadly, it was downhill from there."
http://www.dirtrider.com/features/141_0307_motocross_milestone/index.html
...quote from about half way down.
Nice bike but..... ;D
Yamaha obvious took heed of that old racing maxium, 'to finish first you first have to finish'. ;)
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Sound's like a montesa just joking 414 ;D ;D
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Yawn...... ::)Vee Dub Beetles were also pretty popular once. I doubt I'd try and race one though.......
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What is interesting is the sucess of the 81 490 in VMX. I see more now than I did in 81, though I admit I saw a few still raced currently as late as 90. The clutch "woes" are largley due to lack of understanding of proper setup..or even worse misunderstanding. The small Maico clutch is very reliable, rugged and simple. One of the keys is to use factory sintered bronze fibers instead of Barnett.
Further, it is critical to follow procedures properly to not warp the plates-this is all too frequent. You must use a good quality cable, and Magura lever( though I have seen some late aftermarket lever used) to gain proper cable travel. My clutch never dragged, never slipped-and I slipped it often in slow speed turns in 2nd gear( due to the high 14/56 gearing I preferred). I also took the time to deburr, and even lightly polish clutch actuator, as well as basket( I do this on any vintage bike, though).
In fact, my old 77 had the original stock fibers and steels. Many of these bikes were ridden long after their asian contemporaries were put out to pasture-thereby wearing out more parts, corrsion etc..on top of far fewer bikes to begin with( unlikley to find an original 490 with few to no hrs on it). The trans was very tough, I frequently powershited on up shifts( full throttle-fan clutch), and at times up shifted w/o clutch full throttle. This was not really needed when the bike's power and tractability put my fat ass out in front anyway. The primary chain is the weak linkm though I did get a CZ chain from NW Maico-and it never stretched after 6 races. You will have to monitor this every season for a novice to intermediate, an likley twice a season for you fast riders. Personally, I ran Bel-Ray for two-three races once primary chain has seated in, along with a magnetic drain plug. Still, I know many who run automotive 20w-50 and forget to change with no consequence.
Where I found the "touchy" areas was air leaks, probably most VMX bikes develop some in a season of racing. The radial Maico seemed to me affected more by these than the asian bikes I've owned. Another area is the kicker, anyone who does not use the comp release is asking to break parts . Use it, do not "slap" at the kicker-get it up on TDC and spin it through fast after engine is primed. When hot, use comp release and starts fast. The Maicos are otherwise a tank, really take a beating to the trans, chassis, clutch and engine. if you are passionate about your bikes, you will learn the ticks to maintain a Maico-and be rewarded with excellent power and handling-as well as long service life of major components. Until the 490s prices went out of sight a few years back, they were comparitively priced to a YZ465. I have found that once you set up your euro bike, you actually get more hrs out of it than a comparable asian bike. That is, though only my experience.
The 490 was made to conquer the YZ465, and if the 465 were a pos, the 490 would not have been built. Here in the US, Yamaha parts are much more difficult to locate than Maico parts. Though I have purchased few YZ parts, I wished at the time, I was buying Maico parts-many of which costs comparable, but are much easier to obtain. Yamahas of the era were always durable machines-and great performers too. Perhaps the biggest Maico adavantage was hooking up that power in all kinds of terrain. BTW, the 495 KTM and CR480 are both faster with perfect traction.
As far the the championships, in 1971 most bikes were less than reliable at that level. By 1981, there was no way any euro company could possibly bankroll a fifth of what Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, or Yamaha could for development, or riders. Still records are records, and excuses are moot. I wonder how it might have been had Maico been as open minded, and sold enough foo-foo bikes for profit to budget a better field. In the end, the Japanese were determined to their goals and won-relegating the euros out of business, I think due to mainly US riders who wanted more and more advances each year with less maintenence-in my opinion an unwillingness to learn and practice simple maintenence on a bike. To me, the real pinnacle of the era was the single shock 83 CR480 Honda, along with the 81 and 83 490 Maicos. Given the prices of a 490 these days, one may easily consider dealing with locating parts for a YZ465-even if you prefer the 490.
Yawn...... ::)Vee Dub Beetles were also pretty popular once. I doubt I'd try and race one though.......
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James, if thats ya "tease" for shit sake dont do a full blown story on the Maico ;D ;D I fell asleep 3 times reading it ;D ;D, could be that I have the attention span of a chocolate fish, or a yammie yz rider ;D
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What is interesting is the sucess of the 81 490 in VMX. I see more now than I did in 81
That is interesting James ;D , a bike built for the 1981 market has more 'success' in Vintage Motocross ;D ;D
Just teasing ya ;D
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thats funny but each to there own it. just good to have them now (either yamaha or maico) and enjoy the things we couldnt afford as kids
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;D ;D ;D mxmaddness not bad but at least our sheep run when we kick em :o ;D ;D ;D
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im did you say kick or kiss them
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What is interesting is the sucess of the 81 490 in VMX. I see more now than I did in 81
That is interesting James ;D , a bike built for the 1981 market has more 'success' in Vintage Motocross ;D ;D
Just teasing ya ;D
DJ, what I meant was that I saw far more YZ465s in 80-81 than Maicos-even here in n.texas where there was a great dealer(s)-and am sure that in 81 the Maicos outnumbered the Hondas. ( picture of sheep on YZ465) For VMX we are more tolerant of quirks etc.(picture of goat on Maico) LOL ;D ;D.
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James I did get what you were meaning, but I had ta tease ya with what I said ;D , but a GOAT on a Maico... do ya think the suziki boys will allow it ;D Its all good in VMX, if ya cant laugh, think of the money ya can save on false teeth that ya can spend on ya bike ;D ;D
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I WAS SAVING FOR FALSE TEETH BUT NOW I OWN A MAICO , JUST DESCOVERED I NEED A KNEE RESTORATION AS WELL, DAMN KICKING IT, :D :D :D just a little jib. ;D cheers BONEHEAD
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lol :D
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tickle and kick ;)
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overated overpriced sweep riding enduro bikes ;D rather ride my 465 anyday ;)
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Anyone here know how to make a YZ465 turn better?
Step 1: Remove crossbar pad
Step 2 : Roll a Maico under it
Step 3 : Replace bar pad
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hey James, I know a bloke with a Maico 490 and he has starting issues, I vaguely remember you saying about the starting process in another thread. Something about priming the carb or something like that??
What the story??
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Hey James, I know a bloke with a Maico 490 and he has starting issues, I vaguely remember you saying about the starting process in another thread. Something about priming the carb or something like that??
What the story??
Yes, it could get a bit long, though. A 490 has many design factors which lend it to be more difficult to start than say a YZ465. For a Bing, tun on tap lean bike left, then right-hols tickle button down until you get it overflowing, then plug hoses with fingers-oull comp release. Next open throttle ,spin engine though slowly with kicker, 4-5 times( alternately-you can rock in gear, but I prefer to use the lever). Now, slowly-with comp release in spin to TDC-let leverback up to top, now spin a fast kick-no slap kicking here 1st with throttle closed, then open as needed. For a Mikuni , use choke lever, and some times two "primes" to start, but you can seem you get a way with a fatter pilot jet on these too-so they typically use the same procedure. If you can not fire it like this, stop-there is something wrong.
BTW I used the procedure to start my then modern 80s 250mx ers when it was cold, sure most just turn on tap, pull choke on etc-but then they often "slap" the kicker 10-12 times-my way fires engine in ususally 1-2 kicks. Man that was long.
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Dont forget...tongue to the left and John Henry to the right! :D
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Sorry James, the kiwi coming out in me, I was just taking the piss ;) ;D
my yammie, fuel on-choke-2 kicks and go racing.
its lucky that you Maico boys pay twice as much for your bikes as us yammie guys because you sure get your moneys worth trying to start them.. :D ;D ;D ;D
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Hey DJ them Maico's give good value coz every one i saw at CD4 had 3 blokes on it one on the bars and 2 pushing it down the carpark.
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Yammie riders should also be flaggies 'cause they're always on the side of the track broken down.
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MAICO =HARD TO START i have even seen guys that have had them for years still having troubles
= dodgey primary chains change them all the time carry one in bumbag
=change oil heaps or primary chain dissolves :'(
=shit front suspension fork dampening wrong springs too soft
=shit rear shocks everyone replaces them with ohlins or works performance
=pox front brakes what more can i say
= shit gear selecting mechanism setup looks like something off my 1922 dodge ::)
everyone spends mega bucks on them billet this and that shocks forks pipes
swingarms ignitions etc etc
but i still see them getting pushed 8)
there is no doubt they are faster in a straight line than a 465
but i still think both bikes in standard trim the yz465 would win with same rider
and i have riden both and i would say the 465 turns heaps better than maico ;)
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Ya know, if the YZ465 were piston port versus reed valve it would be much more difficult to start....We Maico riders are aware of these things, I say this as a service to the YZ riders, so put the bong down and pay attention. ;D ;D
Yes, far too many Maicos are being pushed-most with nasty air leaks-they are not for the racer who wants to slap a sticker on and continue reading interent porn utnil race day. The YZs are for these people-and they will give consistent mediocre peformance with little attention. ;D ;D
As far as a YZ465 out turning any Maico, is that in the "paralell universe"? ya know, where Eric Cartman is nice and all. Don't get me wrong, Ilike YZs-the tremedous lethargic bulk of them provides great traction in a turn where no berm is available( though the Maico still works great here). ;D
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MAICO = TOTALLY HYPED UP OVERATED :o , IMHO if DB mag had not given the praise during their obvious Pro Euro bike era then the bike would have just been an "also ran". its amazing how much a magazine can influence people, if they say something is good or bad then the guys who read this recon it must be so, even though they are completely different riders using the bike for different reasons etc. I owned and raced a Maico 490 in the early eighties becuase Its all i could get for my money at the time (2nd hand) but i renovated it and raced it and i loved it but to be worth twice as much as the YZ465 - NO WAY. Funny enough all my money can buy now was a 2nd hand YZ465 and I love it too, as for turning yes it turns as well if not better than the Maico. Oh and it stops too. As for me I'm going to check out some more porn while you magazine hypnotised consumers fiddle with your maico's ;D ;D ;D
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Tony, don't go to the same porn sites as me, too many user slows it down ;D ;D ;D Yes, I do not know why from a racer standpoint an 81 490 would be worth twice as much as a comparable condition YZ465 either. That, I think is the hype, but unusually high production means there are some more 490s out there. No, not more than 465s, but more than 80 Maicos-or any other 80-81 Euro bike-and some Kxs.
To me, that just makes the 76-77 Aws, 78-79 Magnum and 83 490s easier to get. BTW the YZ 465 got its share of hype-I recall in 1980-the open experts were ALL on 465s at several races I went to. For some of us, we do not mind the careful setup, esoteric learning curve, and sensitive tuning as much as we love our Maicos-especially when everyone calls then junk. As far as the $7100 490 on e-bay last week-I know the owner/builder and I speculate he lost about $1500-as he would if he built a comparable YZ465. As for brakes, I was taught to cudely "arc" the shoes some time ago-and have never had a poor brake-
That includes, Bultaco 135, 74 Penton KTM 250, 75 KX 400, 73 SC500, 76 RM 250, 77 Maico 440-I guess I forgot a few Bultacos back there somewhere.
Tony, right now my $ buys nothing if that makes it any better. I have to go, DB mag is telling me to go out and make a crop circle... ;D ;D ;D
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James, bloody funny retort, hope the crop circle goes will. ;D ;D
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James, bloody funny retort, hope the crop circle goes will. ;D ;D
goes well......not will... ;D kiwis.... :D
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Yee bleedy Ockers weuld pute ane E ento evereetheng, weuldnt yee. ;) ;D
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whatcha mean KeeWee ?
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this is the last instalment
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You dragged up a thread that died back in Feb to say that?
For my part, I'm just amazed the Hilly spelled "touche" correctly.
Now, what am I doing here?!