OzVMX Forum

Marque Remarks => Yamaha => Topic started by: Freakshow on November 02, 2009, 11:25:47 am

Title: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: Freakshow on November 02, 2009, 11:25:47 am
Decided to look at Building this Pre 70 thing the other day and pulled out a 360 motor, Now 2 parts to this question.

After removing the head and then trying to lift barrel nothying happened, proceeded to try ever increasing blows with a drift and still no movement exept fo the 2 fins that broke off on the bottom.

Must only be stuck on the case surface, but i coulndt find the heat gun to try to excite it that way.

Now

Part A  - how the hell do i get the barrell of without doing any more damage.

Part B - motor has no serial numbers, but it wasnt till i had given up and put it back on the shelf next to another one that i noticed it was differant to the Other RT1, but please dont tell me i just beat the shit out of a rare RT2mx barrell, ( yes its on standard clean bore too  ::))
there are no casing on the barrel, no decomp and its not YZ cause its Piston port so whats left ?

any internal way to tell what the motor is ? clutch basket isnt YZ so im sticking to RT somting ..... ideas anyone.  NUmber area is blank and flat surface not ribbed.

(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/munchboxlive/RIMG0519.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/munchboxlive/RIMG0520.jpg)
Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: mx250 on November 02, 2009, 12:06:14 pm
Part A. I would assume its corroded/stuck at the barrel/cases interface (I take it that the piston moves). Normally not two hard to break the bond here; the good old heat cycling, penerating oil and work it side to side (1-2mm) before trying to lift.

The fins are repairable/weld.

Part 2. If its RT2MX barrel its only the barrel; the cases look RT1. (I suppose you want me to check my RT1 barrel for markings ::) :P ;)).
Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: VMX247 on November 02, 2009, 12:21:15 pm
a few cans of CRC which is fish oil based  8)
cheers
Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: Freakshow on November 02, 2009, 12:28:57 pm
I had no marking except the 360cc stamp, the other rt1 barrell next to it has a casting number and also the vertical rods like the dt1 between the fins.

I guess im just dispointed it broke, instead of just tapping off.   YOu know hiow it ends up a 30 min job 2 hours later when you need to be somwhere else seems tyo always go to shit.

PArts. C regardless of what it is , if its piston port anyway does that mine its PRe 70 legal by definision of follow on anyway ? based on performance type not aethestics

Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: Freakshow on November 02, 2009, 12:31:41 pm
Tried the fish oil down the studs and across the gasket but cant seem to get it to penetrate.  i think  i might have to bake and shake..........
Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: EML on November 02, 2009, 12:39:11 pm
Patients old Freaky, patients. Do you have some goanna oil-put that on it or put it in a drum of sump oil (not the best choice but usually plentiful) leave it for a few days/weeks/years. The knockometer is the last resort.
The Flying Flea is on hold 'til I can soak the barrel off.
Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: GMC on November 02, 2009, 01:30:15 pm
Does the crank turn over & the piston move in the barrel?
You may find that it's all seized together.
or
You have missed a bolt.
Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: Freakshow on November 02, 2009, 03:59:39 pm
Nope all bolts out they only have 4 down the guts.  And yep i can turn the flywheel and it goes up and down.

It can only be stuckon that crank surface.  MAybe the alloy case has done a bit of growing onto the steel liner.

I'll try the torch and spray it somemore ( or just put it back on the shelf for another day - i have scared it enough if it thinks its won it might just losen its own grip )
Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: mx250 on November 02, 2009, 04:16:33 pm
I'll try the torch
:o :o :o :o ::) :P :-[
Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: jimson on November 02, 2009, 04:51:31 pm
Freaky take the carbie off slide a piece of dowle down through to the exhaust port and slowly push the kick starter over with your hand.jimson

 Dowle maybe a piece of broom handle
Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: crs-and-rms on November 02, 2009, 05:17:07 pm
fill the crank case and bolt holes full of 3 parts kero and one part oil  till it runs out the exaust port and leave for a week then try we use to do this to free up lead cables that were in iron pipes back when i worked for the pmg
Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: Freakshow on November 02, 2009, 07:23:55 pm
thats a clever idea Jimson, so the piston leverges the action huh, i like it.

knowing my luck its snap's off inside or bends somthing in there.   ::)
Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: frostype400 on November 02, 2009, 07:40:29 pm
Freaky  I got a seized barrell off with brake fluid down the bore it took a while but I came back hours later and it had went past the piston and it slid off easily thanks, Michael.
Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: jimson on November 02, 2009, 08:24:33 pm
Freaky thats why you use wood it should give before anything else  ;D I would still lube the old girl up first. Before you put the broom handle in  :-[  :)  :D jimson
Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: oldfart on November 02, 2009, 08:36:20 pm
Frosty, you are on to it  ;)  brake fluid.
Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: matcho mick on November 02, 2009, 10:45:00 pm
err hellooo,"it's (barrell) stuck around the crank case halves",so undo at least the 2 case 1/2 screws directly below either side of the base of the barrell ,duh  ::), :P
ps only if you hadn't thought of it yet ;D
Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: evo550 on November 02, 2009, 10:47:30 pm
Nothing beats brake fluid
Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: EML on November 03, 2009, 12:07:22 pm
and none of us answered the real question. i.e. 'what is it'
Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: evo550 on November 03, 2009, 05:35:39 pm
"What is it"

It's fluid for brakes ;D ;D cheeky barstard.
Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: Freakshow on November 03, 2009, 09:08:03 pm
well im prity sure the barrell is RT1mx  or similar as it still Piston port but doesnt have the fin or design of the normal RT1, the lower end who knows ? no serial number and no one has responded if there are any tell tails inside.

I can tell you the side cover wont fit a Dt1, as i tried to steal it. the kickstart shaft is too long and wont go down to the mating surface.

Yes any ideas on ID would be good. 
Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: EML on November 04, 2009, 09:26:52 pm
SO WHAT IS IT?? might be something very special, where did it come from?
Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: Freakshow on November 05, 2009, 01:46:54 pm
Came with 4 DT1 frames, 2 of them had these 360 motors in them,  one says RT1 and has the vertical barrel supports , this one has a blank Number case and this RT1mx type barrel on a standard bore  ;)

Came from an old chap in the riverland, probally just a replacement case and a special barrel he bought cheap that was old stock left on a country shelf.

Fk really and it seams no one has any more light.

The thing i want answered Dave. T is can i use this barrell in PRe 70 as its obviously Piston port and at worst just a follow on ?  please advise
Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: firko on November 05, 2009, 01:51:03 pm
Yes. I know I'm not Dave T but that's the right answer.
Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: Freakshow on November 05, 2009, 04:18:10 pm
So yes its legal pre 70 Firko ?
so if im challange am i saying its a follow on internally or whats the basis for my stand ? 

as i have no idead what it is other than what it can fit.  not that that means a lot, so i got no proof to back me other than its a Piston port and fit s a pre 70 motor ?
Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: firko on November 05, 2009, 04:42:52 pm
Quote
I can tell you the side cover wont fit a Dt1, as i tried to steal it. the kickstart shaft is too long and wont go down to the mating surface.
That's odd as I was sure the DT1 and RT1 share the same kicker mechanism (Nathan my know more here). The cylinder is probably a GYT item. How do the ports compare to a stocker? I have  GYT barrel and a stocker, both piston port and as soon as I get my VMX deadline out of the way,will have a look and photograph both of them.

Remember that the RT1 didn't come out until 1970 so it's in the class as a "flow on" from the DT1 so according to the rulebook as long as it's piston port...it's legal for pre '70.

Did the brake fluid work? I have a siezed 400 squarie Maico engine that I've filled with brake fluid in the hope of freeing it. Being rare I don't want to wreck the bore so I'm taking it cautiously.
Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: oldfart on November 05, 2009, 05:37:22 pm
Brake fluid takes a good week or two, to work...... be patient  ;D
Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: Freakshow on November 05, 2009, 06:33:02 pm
Nope i wanted to borrow the side cover as it had a plug in it for the right shift and my 250 had a leak where the pedel had rub/cracked.  tried to fit the dt250 onthere and it sat about 10mm up couldnt figure it out but when i looked the kicksart area in the case was too long and it sat the cover out, everyting else ws the same so im not sure why the rt1 if its that has a lbigger kickstart or a shorter case ?   there are no casting marks so i cant tell, no webco marks no nothing, does your gyt have now castings and the same fine profiles ?  that would make sense, although it make me even more angry about bashing those 2 fins off....idiot when will i learn.
Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: mx250 on November 05, 2009, 07:25:01 pm
Sounds like it might be RT2MX - they had a different kick start shaft and spring which sits the whole clutch cover 10mm or so closer. Same as the YZ250/360a I think. 

RT2MX
(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/yzkickgifx.gif)

RT1/DT1
(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/partimageRT1gifx.gif)
Title: Re: whY WONT IT BUDGE AND WHAT THE HELL IS IT.
Post by: Freakshow on November 06, 2009, 12:07:28 am
kick starter swivelled from top and had a solid tooth, so like in the bottom pick, but then again it may have been a bitsa, if i dont end up riding on Sunday ill have another go at this donk and tak some more piccies.

wasnt the RT2mx reed ?

cheers Guys