Author Topic: Evo stuff?  (Read 1487 times)

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Offline ralph311

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Evo stuff?
« on: November 19, 2018, 09:49:34 AM »
At the seemingly high risk of starting a storm in a stubby holder...… :-)

Can I get some perspective on the current rules for a couple of things in Evo?

1. Are keihin PWK's now legal? It seems they are??

2. What's the story with Twin Leading Shoe (TLS) brakes? If the technology is ok in principal are there restrictions on the actual brake hardware that may be used?

Is it worth me contacting someone like Dave Tanner and asking? By worth it I mean would it carry any weight at the track if my bike made someone unhappy?

Thanks guys and please try really really hard not to behave like donald trump. (I kid!!)



Offline Ted

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Re: Evo stuff?
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2018, 02:05:29 PM »
1- No
2- As long as the twin leader was available before 1/1/95 it’s in
« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 03:58:15 PM by Ted »
81 YZ 465 H   77 RM 125 B

Offline ralph311

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Re: Evo stuff?
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2018, 04:02:36 PM »
Great, thanks Ted.

Re the TLS brake - how about an aftermarket brake currently produced for a specific, Evo legal bike as a bolt on replacement of the oem single leading shoe brake.... in or out?

Cheers

Offline Ted

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Re: Evo stuff?
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2018, 08:38:18 PM »
I answered no to the PWK carb as it is oval slide and not a flat slide.

I’m not sure what you mean but is it something made today for something like a S1 Maico.
Apparently a whole S1 Maico is legal for Evo ( but not for Pre 85/90/95. ) silly, yes, but if say you only wanted to use the front brake setup I’m not sure if that’s legal.
I don’t know where you’d get confirmation from as I’ve heard they’ve chucked out the VMX Commission. You could maybe email Rules at MA but don’t hold your breath waiting for a answer.
81 YZ 465 H   77 RM 125 B

Offline ralph311

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Re: Evo stuff?
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2018, 09:29:16 AM »
Yeah Ted as an aside, I don't understand the S1 Maico status at all. Which is another reason why I'm trying to understand the simple stuff. :-)

Anyway, my confused understanding of carbs.....

The rules essentially say when it comes to evo, 'components falling within the post classic era are acceptable'. Post classic is pre95 isn't it? It also has a specific rule for carbs saying 'period flat slide carbs' are acceptable, which I then interpret (uh-oh!) as pre95 carbs are ok. PWKs are late 80s aren't they?

So I wonder if the attempt to clarify the intent with carbs by adding an additional, specific rule actually confuses the situation. Most folks would simply refer to a pwk generically as a flat slide carb wouldn't they? Not a discussion I want to have at scrutineering! :-)

As for TLS brakes.... please ignore the brands I reference, its just for the sake of discussion of the rules.

I've seen new billet hubs and backing plates for Maicos. The backing plates seem accepted (legal) on the grounds of safety and I'm guessing the same goes for billet hubs. Makes sense to me.

I've also seen the same thing for husqvarnas and I imagine they are legal for the same reason as the maicos. Around 1984 tho husky's had a TLS front brake and you can buy a new replacement billet TLS brake for a husky.

So... it would seem that I could put an original husky TLS brake on a maico - its all period correct - and it would be legal.  But if a new replacement billet TLS is legal on a husky then surely its still legal if you stick it on a maico, being A) the same situation as if you put oem husky parts on a maico and B) its legal on a husky. ???

Where it turns to complete mud to me is if a billet TLS brake made as a specific replacement part for a SLS maico is not legal, then maybe fitting a husky billet TLS brake to a maico is legal. Haarr! Bonkers!! I definitely ain't having that discussion at scrutineering.

So there is my personal struggle with some of the simple stuff. Thanks for being the only one brave/stoopid enuff to chew the fat Ted. :-)












Offline bigk

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Re: Evo stuff?
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2018, 09:30:53 AM »
You're info is incorrect Ted, the CMX commission is as it was although all commissions will be/are getting a re-hash (some already have). Either way there will be a CMX presence within MA, albeit under a slightly different structure.
As for PWK, they are fine for EVO. The EVO rules encompass the "period" (up to & including post classic). PWK's are std equipment in the post classic period. TLS front brakes are also fine, once again std equipment for the period.
There is a lot of "false news" bandied about stating the EVO components must come from a bike with all 3 main criteria for the class as std equipment, ie: air cooled, drum brake, no linkage. Not so, if it is an air cooled motor, drum brake or non linkage system from any bike within the period (up to & including the post classic period), you can use it. Eg: you could use the forks, wheel & TLS brake from a 1982 YZ or CR as they are original drum brake forks within the period, even though they came from a bike with liquid cooling & linkage suspension. If there is a 1994 model bike out there with drum brake front end, air cooled engine or a no linkage suspension, you can use those components as well.
Ralph, if you have specific eligibility questions, direct through the MA ofice who will then forward your inquiries to the correct commission & come back to you with a definitive answer. You'll get 100 different opinions by asking on social media. go to the correct channels & get the correct advice.
K

Offline ralph311

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Re: Evo stuff?
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2018, 10:04:46 AM »
Awesome K, thanks for the input. You're 100% right about social media/forums but you've got to start somewhere and it also comes up with posts like yours. Cheers.

ps BigK would you have an email address for an appropriate point of contact with MA?
« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 10:11:15 AM by ralph311 »

Offline Ted

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Re: Evo stuff?
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2018, 11:46:25 AM »
Mick, if it’s the case that the PWK is legal, and I couldn’t care less if it is, then the wording flat slide should be removed from the GCR and re-written as “period carburettors” because the PWK is not a flat slide

Cheers
81 YZ 465 H   77 RM 125 B

Offline bigk

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Re: Evo stuff?
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2018, 11:53:46 AM »
Yes Ted, the wording should be changed to reflect it, I will put it on  the agenda. Most people refer to them as flat slides but you are correct in saying they are crescent shaped slides. They are 100% legal for EVO though.
K

Offline Ted

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Re: Evo stuff?
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2018, 12:20:02 PM »
Legal yes. No problem here
Still on a high from the Classic’s. That was the best run, most efficient meeting I’ve ever been to. I still can’t believe how they managed 75 races with only one water truck. But they did and the track was mint
81 YZ 465 H   77 RM 125 B

Offline KTM47

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Re: Evo stuff?
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2018, 12:24:08 PM »
1- No
2- As long as the twin leader was available before 1/1/95 it’s in

1. Wrong they are legal.  Ted is wrong again.  What do you expect from a Manly supporter.
2. If you are thinking of buying the billet alloy ones that come from the UK and Europe No, if you have a YZ one they are legal.
MAICOS RULE DESPITE THE FOOLS

1999 KTM 200, 1976/77 KTM 400,1981 Maico 490

Offline KTM47

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Re: Evo stuff?
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2018, 12:32:23 PM »
1- No
2- As long as the twin leader was available before 1/1/95 it’s in

1. Wrong they are legal.  Ted is wrong again.  What do you expect from a Manly supporter.
2. If you are thinking of buying the billet alloy ones that come from the UK and Europe No, if you have a YZ one they are legal.

Email Address for MA rules   rules@ma.org.au
« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 12:34:00 PM by KTM47 »
MAICOS RULE DESPITE THE FOOLS

1999 KTM 200, 1976/77 KTM 400,1981 Maico 490

Offline sleepy

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Re: Evo stuff?
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2018, 06:11:42 PM »
1- No
2- As long as the twin leader was available before 1/1/95 it’s in

1. Wrong they are legal.  Ted is wrong again.  What do you expect from a Manly supporter.
2. If you are thinking of buying the billet alloy ones that come from the UK and Europe No, if you have a YZ one they are legal.
Interesting that you can't use newly manufacture brakes but you can use a newly manufactured S1 Maico frame.
Little article on the S1 when it first came out. http://www.motorsportretro.com/2011/02/maico-s1-from-maico-only/

Offline ralph311

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Re: Evo stuff?
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2018, 07:30:11 PM »
Just sent a request off to MA mob regarding the brakes. If you lot behave I'll let you know what comes back. ;-)

Offline evo550

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Re: Evo stuff?
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2019, 10:26:13 PM »
Brakes ?
According to MA you don't need them.
Below is an official response I got from MA regarding a brake rule question.

Thanks for your email; and for your patience whilst I passed on the enquiry to both the Classic MX and MX/SX Commission for comment. Both have confirmed that your brake system is suitable. For the MX Commission it simply needs to be a brake that “works” i.e. slows down that rear wheel to assist with stopping.
 
The Classic MX Commission do not require you to have brakes at all (as per the GCR’s) however should your machine be deemed “unsafe” on the track, the Clerk of the Course has the right to remove it. You would not be deemed unsafe on this machine as it has been presented.
 
Hopefully this answers your questions, if you need anything further please let me know. Best of luck with racing!
 
Kind regards,
 
Nicole Van der Sant
Senior Administrator
Motorcycling Australia
Tel: (03) 9684 0512