Author Topic: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?  (Read 1015 times)

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Offline sleepy

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2017, 02:13:55 PM »
round cast iron is readily available and cheap. would not be easier to buy a piece of cast iron and machine exactly what you need?

Something you have obviously never done before. Correct cast iron even in hollow bar is not that cheap and the maching can take some time.
Last two pieces i got cost me 29Euros. 70mm OD x150mm long. So thats what $45-50 dollars. And yes i have done more than a few cylinders so far. Have you? Obviously you talking about something you have not done ever. Most of cast iron is suitable for cylinder liners. Most of cast/grey iron is around 200 HB. Read here http://forums.everything2stroke.com/threads/49513-How-It-s-Done-Projects-around-the-Shop/page8   Yes it is probably hard to find a shop that would turn a cylinder liner for you for a reasonable price here in Ozi.

Made quite a few over the last 30 years or so and the cost to the customer is always more than the ready made ones. Can remember the cost of the cast but I buy it in lengths of hollow bar around 400mm. Can't imagine it would be very economical buying it overseas and having it freighted to Australia. I really dislike doing the machining as it fills the shed with cast iron dust and covers the lathe in cast iron swarf as well. I end up coughing black goop for days after, should ware a mask.

Offline LWC82PE

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2017, 06:28:06 PM »
I have had blank sleeves from here
https://www.westwoodcylinderliners.co.uk/
Wanted - 1978 TS185 frame
Orange Don Vesco/MS/Windsor tank
ADB Mags (vol 2 no.2) nov/dec 77& jan/feb 78 (vol2 no.3)

Offline sleepy

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2017, 11:47:28 PM »
I have had blank sleeves from here
https://www.westwoodcylinderliners.co.uk/

What was the landed cost and did it have a flange around the top?
They seem to have a good range of straight and flanged sleeves and a bespoke order form for custom stuff.

Offline LWC82PE

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2017, 09:49:24 AM »
I was a blank sleeve that still required machining. I cant remember costs but if was for a gold star BSA or something we could not source the material for locally like normal. It was an odd size. It's getting bloody hard to source stuff ie raw materals in OZ now that Holden has closed. It has had a big flow on effect and is getting worse. Wanted some 1"1/4 x 1/8 ERW tube. Used to be made in Adelaide, could get it very easily up until  a few years ago. Ran out last year and needed some more. Now all there is is thin walled stuff or crappy black pipe. Had to get  6 meters from Brisbane and even they have it made in NZ.

« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 12:50:49 PM by LWC82PE »
Wanted - 1978 TS185 frame
Orange Don Vesco/MS/Windsor tank
ADB Mags (vol 2 no.2) nov/dec 77& jan/feb 78 (vol2 no.3)

Offline crossedup2

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2017, 04:18:44 PM »
If it's just a blank sleeve with a bore similar to a DT175 then try one of these. Cheap with no port holes. (Not sure of quality but maybe it's worth purchasing 1 to see if the experiment works!) A workshop with a good boring machine will get the cylinder to fit.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/YAMAHA-RD350-LINER-SLEEVE-FOR-CYLINDER-BARREL-FOR-RD-350-RD350-64MM/292288608231?hash=item440dc237e7:g:uQ0AAOSw9GhYmzyS

Regards

Peter B
Anything Yamaha. AT1, CT1 (X3), RT1, YZ125X,  YZ250E, YZ400D, IT175E, IT250H, IT490K . Always looking for Pre 78 Yamaha stuff....

Offline Tomas

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2017, 04:49:33 PM »
Looks like it isnt that hard to get cast iron. This place seem to be happy to cut what you need.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Cast-Iron-Round-Bar-80mm-Dia-x-75mm-CC250-Lathe-Hobby-CNC/263197452593?hash=item3d47ca6931:g:ECEAAOSwaB5XtpVg

Offline sleepy

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2017, 05:53:13 PM »
If it's just a blank sleeve with a bore similar to a DT175 then try one of these. Cheap with no port holes. (Not sure of quality but maybe it's worth purchasing 1 to see if the experiment works!) A workshop with a good boring machine will get the cylinder to fit.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/YAMAHA-RD350-LINER-SLEEVE-FOR-CYLINDER-BARREL-FOR-RD-350-RD350-64MM/292288608231?hash=item440dc237e7:g:uQ0AAOSw9GhYmzyS

Regards

Peter B

That's a joke. No flange on top and no port holes and their calling it an RD350 sleeve.
Sleeves like that are readily available in Australia for less money. Mainly used in re-sleeving car engines but not good engineering practice in a single as there is no flange to keep it in place. You can pin them but not good for an over bore 2 stroke. 

Offline sleepy

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2017, 06:12:11 PM »
Looks like it isnt that hard to get cast iron. This place seem to be happy to cut what you need.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Cast-Iron-Round-Bar-80mm-Dia-x-75mm-CC250-Lathe-Hobby-CNC/263197452593?hash=item3d47ca6931:g:ECEAAOSwaB5XtpVg
I'll have to go and look that place up as they are only 5 minutes from my place.
Still be about $80 per piece and if you had your own lathe and the skills it would be cheaper than buying one but if you had to pay to have it machined that's a different story.
From memory the last 4 stroke sleeve with a flange I bought cost about $180  which in my opinion is the cheapest starting point.

Offline matcho mick

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2017, 10:55:11 PM »
$180 fking cheap option  :o,ok admittedly a one off, i bought an excess11 block for $50 from local wrecker,hacksawed in 1/2 to fit in shed stove,bingo 4 X 72mm bore sleeves (with flanges),look around,even wet sleeves from fergy tractors do pommy singles,(after external machining) there was a firm in tamworth doing spun cast iron sleeves (years ago  ::)), :P
work,the curse of the racing class!!
if a hammer dosn't fix it,you have a electrical problem!!

Offline Mick D

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2017, 11:21:50 PM »
$180 fking cheap option  :o,ok admittedly a one off, i bought an excess11 block for $50 from local wrecker,hacksawed in 1/2 to fit in shed stove,bingo 4 X 72mm bore sleeves (with flanges),look around,even wet sleeves from fergy tractors do pommy singles,(after external machining) there was a firm in tamworth doing spun cast iron sleeves (years ago  ::)), :P

What were you fitting them into Mick?
"light weight, and it works great"  :)

Offline matcho mick

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2017, 11:39:53 PM »
my P3 MV 2fiddy with hi comp kwaka Z pistons  8), :P
work,the curse of the racing class!!
if a hammer dosn't fix it,you have a electrical problem!!

Offline sleepy

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2017, 11:25:19 AM »
$180 fking cheap option  :o,ok admittedly a one off, i bought an excess11 block for $50 from local wrecker,hacksawed in 1/2 to fit in shed stove,bingo 4 X 72mm bore sleeves (with flanges),look around,even wet sleeves from fergy tractors do pommy singles,(after external machining) there was a firm in tamworth doing spun cast iron sleeves (years ago  ::)), :P

I should have said that $180 was cheaper than paying $80 for a lump of solid cast iron then spending the best part of a day maching it. If you look back I suggested using some old GS750 sleeves which would be very cheap if you can find a barrel that is. When doing this sort of for a living you can't waste hours searching for a used 4 cylinder block for something that may do the job when a simple phone call gets a new sleeve on your door the next morning. In the end the customer has to pay for the time spent doing the work.
 

Offline twinrock

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2017, 11:33:28 AM »
Yeah i had also seen thesehttps://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Yamaha-RD350-Liner-Sleeve-For-Cylinder-Barrel-Set-of-2-For-RD350-64mm/263168335818?hash=item3d460e1fca:g:FQAAAOSwk9dZoROk
Id really like them to start at at least 66mm to keep machining costs down i guess it opens up more problems then just sourcing the sleeves. For one the power valves would prob not be able to be used..so a port design to suit would need to be worked out.. by someone smarter than me..lol
There also these ...https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/YAMAHA-DT200-1990-1991-1992-COMPLETE-BIG-BORE-KIT-250cc-BRAND-NEW/172851043103?epid=2222206353&hash=item283eb99b1f:g:Fw8AAOSwRoZZh7WE
But the dt is 7mm longer in the stroke to a tzr im not sure if you could simply trim the top or bottom of sleave to accomodate for the shorter stroke again power valve would be no longer used but at that much larger capacity im sure it would not be needed

Offline sleepy

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2017, 01:40:43 PM »
Yeah i had also seen thesehttps://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Yamaha-RD350-Liner-Sleeve-For-Cylinder-Barrel-Set-of-2-For-RD350-64mm/263168335818?hash=item3d460e1fca:g:FQAAAOSwk9dZoROk
Id really like them to start at at least 66mm to keep machining costs down i guess it opens up more problems then just sourcing the sleeves. For one the power valves would prob not be able to be used..so a port design to suit would need to be worked out.. by someone smarter than me..lol
There also these ...https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/YAMAHA-DT200-1990-1991-1992-COMPLETE-BIG-BORE-KIT-250cc-BRAND-NEW/172851043103?epid=2222206353&hash=item283eb99b1f:g:Fw8AAOSwRoZZh7WE
But the dt is 7mm longer in the stroke to a tzr im not sure if you could simply trim the top or bottom of sleave to accomodate for the shorter stroke again power valve would be no longer used but at that much larger capacity im sure it would not be needed

Just pulled up an image of TZR barrels. A 10mm bigbore in those would be quite a job. Doing away with the power valves would kill the bottom end even at 350cc. I've done some 4mm oversize 125 power valve barrels with good result, may be an easier option to make it 300 rather than 350.

Offline twinrock

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2017, 03:45:41 PM »
Yeah i think putting an rz/ banshee motor/top end may be a much easier option.. a few months ago i had great success when i mated an aircooled blaster quad 240cc big bore top end on the crank case inducted dt200r bottom end.. yes i lost powervalves and water cooling but the improved port layout and increase in capacity made for a great simple powerfull lil engine.. it just got me thinking more about the advantages of crank case induction and seeing how a tzr is basically a twin dt200 thought there may be a way to take advantage of yamahas history of motor similarities....there is one combination that would work..a twin cylinder air cooled crank case inducted 350cc using 2 dt175 cylinders on a tzr bottom end ..cylinders  will almost bolt on ..to what advantage i dont know..lol but would make a very torquey very smooth lil motor...