Author Topic: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?  (Read 1016 times)

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Offline twinrock

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dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« on: October 31, 2017, 09:16:11 PM »
Hi does anyone know if cylinder sleeves are available for dt or it175 thanks

Offline crossedup2

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2017, 10:34:01 AM »
Hi Twinrock

I contacted L.A.Sleeve about 3 months ago looking for similar parts. All prices in US.

https://www.lasleeve.com/tech/catalogs
 
1977 YZ400 sleeve - YA765 is $275.00.
IT175 (D, E, F) -Cost on the YA649 is $325.00.
1974 -76 YZ125 - YA333 is $250.00.
Postage is approximately $69 to $89.

Thank you, 
Dave @ L.A.SLEEVE
562-945-7578 ext.232
dave@lasleeve.com
 
Plus the fitting of the sleeve.

Good luck and Rgds
Peter B
Anything Yamaha. AT1, CT1 (X3), RT1, YZ125X,  YZ250E, YZ400D, IT175E, IT250H, IT490K . Always looking for Pre 78 Yamaha stuff....

Offline matcho mick

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2017, 11:16:44 AM »
Hi does anyone know if cylinder sleeves are available for dt or it175 thanks
why not just get another (good) barrell?,sleeving a DT barrell seems extreme dollarwise??,what model??, :P
work,the curse of the racing class!!
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Offline 80-85 husky

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2017, 07:50:02 PM »
you would think there would be a few about, 175's are thick on the ground....

Offline twinrock

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2017, 09:33:34 AM »
Thanks guys..i was intending on using the sleeve in a completely different motor..which shares the same stroke but smaller bore prices are to expensive for this experiment..i wonder is the cylinder can be cut away from the sleeve ..could get acheap dt cylinder to try..

Offline sleepy

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2017, 10:23:54 AM »
You could machine the outside of the barrel away if you are careful, the outside of the cast iron is a cast finish with lumps and bump on it. The cost to do it wouldn't be cheap and it is really hard to get a good finish that is round on the outside with the port holes already there. Cylindrical grinding is about the only way to get a good finish on the outside of a 2 stroke sleeve with holes in it.
If your handy with drills, files and die grinders you can buy a flanged sleeve and cut your own ports. I've used old GS1000 suzuki sleeves to do big bore DT style barrels but to cut the holes takes a couple of hours.

Offline OverTheHill

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2017, 12:50:11 PM »
Hey, good to know people are still right into adapting things. Curious to know more?

Offline twinrock

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2017, 10:14:51 PM »
Ahh well thats a good idea use a 4stroke sleeve and cut the ports..

Offline sleepy

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2017, 12:09:45 AM »
Ahh well thats a good idea use a 4stroke sleeve and cut the ports..
Let me know what bore size you are looking for as I may have something laying around or atleast give you an idea as to what to look for. Most of the 4 stroke stuff will be reduced diameter at the bottom but it is quite easy to machine them parallel before you cut any port.

Offline Tomas

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2017, 07:32:16 PM »
round cast iron is readily available and cheap. would not be easier to buy a piece of cast iron and machine exactly what you need?

Offline twinrock

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2017, 08:36:11 AM »
Yeah thats another good idea.
The motor/bike in question is a tzr250,dont get me wrong its a fantastic and fast lil motor.. i have always thought its a shame they never made a 350cc like the rd and rz before it.. i saw a guy fit dt200 cylinders to one..but it was alot of work and $$ so after a few measurements and comparisons it seems that a dt175 is the same stroke but 10mm bigger bore the bace to deck height is also the same and the pistons also match as do dt200r. I would do the mod to a set of max bore tzr cylinders ...it could be done relatively cheaply i think although alot of time,..to what result or success over the standard 250cc motor who knows. Its bottom end torque that i would be chasing..

Offline sleepy

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2017, 12:34:51 PM »
round cast iron is readily available and cheap. would not be easier to buy a piece of cast iron and machine exactly what you need?

Something you have obviously never done before. Correct cast iron even in hollow bar is not that cheap and the maching can take some time.

Offline sleepy

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2017, 12:44:54 PM »
Yeah thats another good idea.
The motor/bike in question is a tzr250,dont get me wrong its a fantastic and fast lil motor.. i have always thought its a shame they never made a 350cc like the rd and rz before it.. i saw a guy fit dt200 cylinders to one..but it was alot of work and $$ so after a few measurements and comparisons it seems that a dt175 is the same stroke but 10mm bigger bore the bace to deck height is also the same and the pistons also match as do dt200r. I would do the mod to a set of max bore tzr cylinders ...it could be done relatively cheaply i think although alot of time,..to what result or success over the standard 250cc motor who knows. Its bottom end torque that i would be chasing..

Had a bit of a look and GS750 Suzuki has a 65mm bore the outside of the sleeve would end up 72mm after maching and the length is 113mm with a nice flange on top. An IT175 barrel here for some work is 114mm deep so 1 mm shorter would not be a problem. Using a used GS750 sleeve would be way cheaper and quicker than starting with a lump of cast. I'll dig around and see how many I can find.

Offline fred99999au

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2017, 01:11:55 PM »
I saw an article some time ago on a US site about a bloke who makes his own sleeves, and the material used is not straight cast iron, there are a number of other elements in the mix.

I suspect the qualities of sewage pipe and engine cylinders are not the same.

Offline Tomas

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2017, 01:39:24 PM »
round cast iron is readily available and cheap. would not be easier to buy a piece of cast iron and machine exactly what you need?

Something you have obviously never done before. Correct cast iron even in hollow bar is not that cheap and the maching can take some time.
Last two pieces i got cost me 29Euros. 70mm OD x150mm long. So thats what $45-50 dollars. And yes i have done more than a few cylinders so far. Have you? Obviously you talking about something you have not done ever. Most of cast iron is suitable for cylinder liners. Most of cast/grey iron is around 200 HB. Read here http://forums.everything2stroke.com/threads/49513-How-It-s-Done-Projects-around-the-Shop/page8   Yes it is probably hard to find a shop that would turn a cylinder liner for you for a reasonable price here in Ozi. 

Offline sleepy

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2017, 02:13:55 PM »
round cast iron is readily available and cheap. would not be easier to buy a piece of cast iron and machine exactly what you need?

Something you have obviously never done before. Correct cast iron even in hollow bar is not that cheap and the maching can take some time.
Last two pieces i got cost me 29Euros. 70mm OD x150mm long. So thats what $45-50 dollars. And yes i have done more than a few cylinders so far. Have you? Obviously you talking about something you have not done ever. Most of cast iron is suitable for cylinder liners. Most of cast/grey iron is around 200 HB. Read here http://forums.everything2stroke.com/threads/49513-How-It-s-Done-Projects-around-the-Shop/page8   Yes it is probably hard to find a shop that would turn a cylinder liner for you for a reasonable price here in Ozi.

Made quite a few over the last 30 years or so and the cost to the customer is always more than the ready made ones. Can remember the cost of the cast but I buy it in lengths of hollow bar around 400mm. Can't imagine it would be very economical buying it overseas and having it freighted to Australia. I really dislike doing the machining as it fills the shed with cast iron dust and covers the lathe in cast iron swarf as well. I end up coughing black goop for days after, should ware a mask.

Offline LWC82PE

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2017, 06:28:06 PM »
I have had blank sleeves from here
https://www.westwoodcylinderliners.co.uk/
Wanted - 1978 TS185 frame
Orange Don Vesco/MS/Windsor tank
ADB Mags (vol 2 no.2) nov/dec 77& jan/feb 78 (vol2 no.3)

Offline sleepy

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2017, 11:47:28 PM »
I have had blank sleeves from here
https://www.westwoodcylinderliners.co.uk/

What was the landed cost and did it have a flange around the top?
They seem to have a good range of straight and flanged sleeves and a bespoke order form for custom stuff.

Offline LWC82PE

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2017, 09:49:24 AM »
I was a blank sleeve that still required machining. I cant remember costs but if was for a gold star BSA or something we could not source the material for locally like normal. It was an odd size. It's getting bloody hard to source stuff ie raw materals in OZ now that Holden has closed. It has had a big flow on effect and is getting worse. Wanted some 1"1/4 x 1/8 ERW tube. Used to be made in Adelaide, could get it very easily up until  a few years ago. Ran out last year and needed some more. Now all there is is thin walled stuff or crappy black pipe. Had to get  6 meters from Brisbane and even they have it made in NZ.

« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 12:50:49 PM by LWC82PE »
Wanted - 1978 TS185 frame
Orange Don Vesco/MS/Windsor tank
ADB Mags (vol 2 no.2) nov/dec 77& jan/feb 78 (vol2 no.3)

Offline crossedup2

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2017, 04:18:44 PM »
If it's just a blank sleeve with a bore similar to a DT175 then try one of these. Cheap with no port holes. (Not sure of quality but maybe it's worth purchasing 1 to see if the experiment works!) A workshop with a good boring machine will get the cylinder to fit.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/YAMAHA-RD350-LINER-SLEEVE-FOR-CYLINDER-BARREL-FOR-RD-350-RD350-64MM/292288608231?hash=item440dc237e7:g:uQ0AAOSw9GhYmzyS

Regards

Peter B
Anything Yamaha. AT1, CT1 (X3), RT1, YZ125X,  YZ250E, YZ400D, IT175E, IT250H, IT490K . Always looking for Pre 78 Yamaha stuff....

Offline Tomas

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2017, 04:49:33 PM »
Looks like it isnt that hard to get cast iron. This place seem to be happy to cut what you need.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Cast-Iron-Round-Bar-80mm-Dia-x-75mm-CC250-Lathe-Hobby-CNC/263197452593?hash=item3d47ca6931:g:ECEAAOSwaB5XtpVg

Offline sleepy

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2017, 05:53:13 PM »
If it's just a blank sleeve with a bore similar to a DT175 then try one of these. Cheap with no port holes. (Not sure of quality but maybe it's worth purchasing 1 to see if the experiment works!) A workshop with a good boring machine will get the cylinder to fit.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/YAMAHA-RD350-LINER-SLEEVE-FOR-CYLINDER-BARREL-FOR-RD-350-RD350-64MM/292288608231?hash=item440dc237e7:g:uQ0AAOSw9GhYmzyS

Regards

Peter B

That's a joke. No flange on top and no port holes and their calling it an RD350 sleeve.
Sleeves like that are readily available in Australia for less money. Mainly used in re-sleeving car engines but not good engineering practice in a single as there is no flange to keep it in place. You can pin them but not good for an over bore 2 stroke. 

Offline sleepy

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2017, 06:12:11 PM »
Looks like it isnt that hard to get cast iron. This place seem to be happy to cut what you need.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Cast-Iron-Round-Bar-80mm-Dia-x-75mm-CC250-Lathe-Hobby-CNC/263197452593?hash=item3d47ca6931:g:ECEAAOSwaB5XtpVg
I'll have to go and look that place up as they are only 5 minutes from my place.
Still be about $80 per piece and if you had your own lathe and the skills it would be cheaper than buying one but if you had to pay to have it machined that's a different story.
From memory the last 4 stroke sleeve with a flange I bought cost about $180  which in my opinion is the cheapest starting point.

Offline matcho mick

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2017, 10:55:11 PM »
$180 fking cheap option  :o,ok admittedly a one off, i bought an excess11 block for $50 from local wrecker,hacksawed in 1/2 to fit in shed stove,bingo 4 X 72mm bore sleeves (with flanges),look around,even wet sleeves from fergy tractors do pommy singles,(after external machining) there was a firm in tamworth doing spun cast iron sleeves (years ago  ::)), :P
work,the curse of the racing class!!
if a hammer dosn't fix it,you have a electrical problem!!

Offline Mick D

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2017, 11:21:50 PM »
$180 fking cheap option  :o,ok admittedly a one off, i bought an excess11 block for $50 from local wrecker,hacksawed in 1/2 to fit in shed stove,bingo 4 X 72mm bore sleeves (with flanges),look around,even wet sleeves from fergy tractors do pommy singles,(after external machining) there was a firm in tamworth doing spun cast iron sleeves (years ago  ::)), :P

What were you fitting them into Mick?
"light weight, and it works great"  :)

Offline matcho mick

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2017, 11:39:53 PM »
my P3 MV 2fiddy with hi comp kwaka Z pistons  8), :P
work,the curse of the racing class!!
if a hammer dosn't fix it,you have a electrical problem!!

Offline sleepy

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2017, 11:25:19 AM »
$180 fking cheap option  :o,ok admittedly a one off, i bought an excess11 block for $50 from local wrecker,hacksawed in 1/2 to fit in shed stove,bingo 4 X 72mm bore sleeves (with flanges),look around,even wet sleeves from fergy tractors do pommy singles,(after external machining) there was a firm in tamworth doing spun cast iron sleeves (years ago  ::)), :P

I should have said that $180 was cheaper than paying $80 for a lump of solid cast iron then spending the best part of a day maching it. If you look back I suggested using some old GS750 sleeves which would be very cheap if you can find a barrel that is. When doing this sort of for a living you can't waste hours searching for a used 4 cylinder block for something that may do the job when a simple phone call gets a new sleeve on your door the next morning. In the end the customer has to pay for the time spent doing the work.
 

Offline twinrock

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2017, 11:33:28 AM »
Yeah i had also seen thesehttps://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Yamaha-RD350-Liner-Sleeve-For-Cylinder-Barrel-Set-of-2-For-RD350-64mm/263168335818?hash=item3d460e1fca:g:FQAAAOSwk9dZoROk
Id really like them to start at at least 66mm to keep machining costs down i guess it opens up more problems then just sourcing the sleeves. For one the power valves would prob not be able to be used..so a port design to suit would need to be worked out.. by someone smarter than me..lol
There also these ...https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/YAMAHA-DT200-1990-1991-1992-COMPLETE-BIG-BORE-KIT-250cc-BRAND-NEW/172851043103?epid=2222206353&hash=item283eb99b1f:g:Fw8AAOSwRoZZh7WE
But the dt is 7mm longer in the stroke to a tzr im not sure if you could simply trim the top or bottom of sleave to accomodate for the shorter stroke again power valve would be no longer used but at that much larger capacity im sure it would not be needed

Offline sleepy

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2017, 01:40:43 PM »
Yeah i had also seen thesehttps://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Yamaha-RD350-Liner-Sleeve-For-Cylinder-Barrel-Set-of-2-For-RD350-64mm/263168335818?hash=item3d460e1fca:g:FQAAAOSwk9dZoROk
Id really like them to start at at least 66mm to keep machining costs down i guess it opens up more problems then just sourcing the sleeves. For one the power valves would prob not be able to be used..so a port design to suit would need to be worked out.. by someone smarter than me..lol
There also these ...https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/YAMAHA-DT200-1990-1991-1992-COMPLETE-BIG-BORE-KIT-250cc-BRAND-NEW/172851043103?epid=2222206353&hash=item283eb99b1f:g:Fw8AAOSwRoZZh7WE
But the dt is 7mm longer in the stroke to a tzr im not sure if you could simply trim the top or bottom of sleave to accomodate for the shorter stroke again power valve would be no longer used but at that much larger capacity im sure it would not be needed

Just pulled up an image of TZR barrels. A 10mm bigbore in those would be quite a job. Doing away with the power valves would kill the bottom end even at 350cc. I've done some 4mm oversize 125 power valve barrels with good result, may be an easier option to make it 300 rather than 350.

Offline twinrock

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2017, 03:45:41 PM »
Yeah i think putting an rz/ banshee motor/top end may be a much easier option.. a few months ago i had great success when i mated an aircooled blaster quad 240cc big bore top end on the crank case inducted dt200r bottom end.. yes i lost powervalves and water cooling but the improved port layout and increase in capacity made for a great simple powerfull lil engine.. it just got me thinking more about the advantages of crank case induction and seeing how a tzr is basically a twin dt200 thought there may be a way to take advantage of yamahas history of motor similarities....there is one combination that would work..a twin cylinder air cooled crank case inducted 350cc using 2 dt175 cylinders on a tzr bottom end ..cylinders  will almost bolt on ..to what advantage i dont know..lol but would make a very torquey very smooth lil motor...

Offline Lozza

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2017, 07:41:12 PM »
Why not just get 2XT cylinders with the sub exhaust port, put the ignition and PV controller on, jetted right that will be around 55hp. All this big bore stuff will be a distant memory. A proper race 250,ie TZ/RS 250 has enough torque even out of band to reef your arms off.
Jesus only loves two strokes

Offline twinrock

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2017, 11:08:16 PM »
Well  yes the 2xt version of that motor was a big up grade..but it was just not  the cylinders but the huge intakes which belong to the bottom end..cylinders are also plated (not really a fan) and very rare..but i agree a tzr can and is a great engine to start with.. fun to explore other options tho..

Offline mboddy

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2017, 09:42:40 PM »
You shouldn't need the big intakes. You can open out the inlets to take NSR250 reed blocks.
Tyga do them for a reasonable price with the HRC stuffers. Buy them direct from Tyga. http://tyga-performance.com/product_info.php?products_id=39
They will flow enough to fit Keihin PWK35 Air Strikers.

You don't need 350cc. Done right the TZR250 engine is great. If you must have 350cc then just stick a 350 powervalve engine in it.
The two DT175 cylinder idea is a bad one. You will waste money and end up with a gutless heap of shit.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 10:00:37 PM by mboddy »
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1980 Yamaha IT125G, 1979 Yamaha IT175F, 1984 Yamaha IT200L, 1977 Yamaha IT250D and IT400D

Offline twinrock

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2017, 09:40:57 AM »
Thanks mark..i have looked into the 2xt cylinders a lil more. i have found some but it would also seem the pistons are hard to find and very exspensive .i understand u had your cylinders re bored and plated to take dtr125 pistions..so the whole operation could end up quite expensive for a street bike i agree the tzr is a great under estimated engine but my mind is always ticking, thinking outside the box..yeah i could put 350 in it but i would like to keep it tzr if i could.. i read someone mentioned yz125 cylinders of the similar era.. i can only imagine they would be in a much higher state of tune than a tzr.. and im sure could be had for not much money but has any one done it..thanks again for all the imput.

Offline Lozza

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2017, 10:46:24 AM »
56mm pistons with a 16mm gudgeon are dime a dozen. Boring and plating a cylinder is easier and CHEAPER than fitting sleeves not to mention a far better job
Jesus only loves two strokes

Offline twinrock

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Re: dt or it175 cylinder sleeves?
« Reply #35 on: November 08, 2017, 02:44:12 PM »
Yeah i agree.. i compared some86 to 88 yz125 cylinders today at local wreckers they had far bigger transfeer and extra ports.. apart from they would just about bolt on the cylinder was the same dimentions in all other respects..