Author Topic: BSA B50, Cheney, CCM Pre 75 Reference.  (Read 1003 times)

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Offline Momus

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BSA B50, Cheney, CCM Pre 75 Reference.
« on: October 25, 2017, 05:03:29 PM »
Can anyone point me towards a good photo and text reference for the various Pre 75 BSA B50MX, Cheney, CCM and other specials from the era?

Offline VMX247

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Re: BSA B50, Cheney, CCM Pre 75 Reference.
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2017, 11:58:26 PM »
Best is in the West !!

Offline Momus

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Re: BSA B50, Cheney, CCM Pre 75 Reference.
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2017, 05:14:13 AM »
Thanks Alison. That question and subsequent trip to the archives just cost me about 110 quid.  I have finally invested in a copy of Bill Lawless' 'Rolling Thunder' CCM history courtesy of Ebay.

Long story short is I've been collecting B50  bits for a few months now and am deciding whether to build up a CCM replica, a Cheney or other special, or stick with a done up B50.

Offline big mac

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Re: BSA B50, Cheney, CCM Pre 75 Reference.
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2017, 10:14:51 AM »
Faber frames do a copy of the clews stroker 73 frame otherwise known as a BSA works frame, much lighter then the standard B50 frame witch is made from plumbers water pipe. Joe Maxwell has reproduction 74 CCM frames both are very nice great workmanship, but are only the start of the money trail of building a pre 75 four stroke racer.

Offline Slakewell

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Re: BSA B50, Cheney, CCM Pre 75 Reference.
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2017, 10:54:18 AM »
I saw a Triumph version the other day, Very cool. CCM frame with Triumph engine.
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Offline bazza

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Re: BSA B50, Cheney, CCM Pre 75 Reference.
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2017, 02:15:15 PM »
B50 in faber frame with good suspension is great combo
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Maico - B44 -1976 CR250- 66 Mustang YZF450,RM250
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Offline grouty

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Re: BSA B50, Cheney, CCM Pre 75 Reference.
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2017, 12:36:31 AM »
I've been building this for the last 9 years ....

https://photos.app.goo.gl/K2fdis7kprAN2OqI2


Not quite finished yet. The exhaust in this picture has yet to be chromed. When that's done it's tear down and rebuild to race.
The frame was a one off copied from my other genuine 73 bike.
How do I make the picture stick from my google photos ? I have tried every which way, but it only comes up with the url link.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 12:57:06 AM by grouty »
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Offline pokey

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Re: BSA B50, Cheney, CCM Pre 75 Reference.
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2017, 02:26:45 AM »


click image then right click image/ copy image address. nice bike

Offline grouty

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Re: BSA B50, Cheney, CCM Pre 75 Reference.
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2017, 03:26:07 AM »
Thanks Pokey. I'm sure I tried that.
I'll have another go.
 
This one will be retired for a while .....

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Offline grouty

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Re: BSA B50, Cheney, CCM Pre 75 Reference.
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2017, 03:28:57 AM »
Sorted it. Thank you.

Momus - if you need any reference pictures, I have loads, but they are all 1973 (funnily enough  :))
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Offline Momus

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Re: BSA B50, Cheney, CCM Pre 75 Reference.
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2017, 07:01:40 PM »
Ok, I've been wrestling with Photobucket and seem to have their slightly changed arrangements pinned. Thanks for your photos and offer Grouty. Nice bike you have built and very much along the lines of what I have in mind.

My B50 shown came with the lay down shock modification to the frame which has been powder coated.


I've spoken to CCM/B50 replica frame makers Joe Maxwell and Simon Cheney about their frames and had a look at a couple of other lesser known and IC efforts.

Joe Maxwell informs me that his CCM 1974.5 bikes have 6.5 to 7 inches of rear travel, so not kosher for Pre75.  A Cheney, or replica,  appeals; low, light and simple and with the winning history and no fuss design approach.


« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 08:44:37 PM by Momus »

Offline grouty

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Re: BSA B50, Cheney, CCM Pre 75 Reference.
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2017, 12:39:10 AM »
There are also the replica late 73 CCM frames that Mark Cook builds (PES Engineering) here in the UK. Mark's frames are built along the lines of the SP series of frames at the end of 73. The only real difference is the oil carrying top tube ends at the front of the seat and does not continue under the seat as per B50 and std 73 CCM frame. The oiling system is also vastly improved over the B50/CCM effort during 73.
Mark copied my original factory 73 frame exactly for my replica. Not something he wishes to repeat !
Marks 'SP' frames accept all original 73 CCM parts. A CCM frame is almost half the weight of a BSA gas pipe job :-)
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Offline Momus

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Re: BSA B50, Cheney, CCM Pre 75 Reference.
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2017, 01:50:26 AM »
Thanks Grouty. Interesting information about the frame work.

I have a swag of PES and NEB engine bits for my build. I didn't make a direct enquiry of Mark but I gather from his postings on the B50 page  he is not that keen on making frames. Given the time line and that I fabricate chrome moly tube at work I might have a go at a replica frame over Christmas. Tidying up the oil system appeals and so does the extra space gained for induction using the short spine.

I've been wondering if anyone has converted a B50 or B44 etc to wet sump to do away with a lot of the external plumbing?

Not sure what happened to my photo, thought I had it sorted for free hosting.

Cheers Marcus

Offline grouty

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Re: BSA B50, Cheney, CCM Pre 75 Reference.
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2017, 02:03:51 AM »
It's worth asking Mark, just in case he has one in stock. If you are going to fire an email off, do it today as they are both off for a couple of weeks sun catching .....
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Offline xel93

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Re: BSA B50, Cheney, CCM Pre 75 Reference.
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2017, 09:16:49 AM »
What are the chances of building a CCM up using those frames and then getting it road registered?  The motor would be OK but the frame would not have a compliance plate.  But it is pre 75 anyhow.  What are the thoughts on that? 
It would be an awesome play trail bike.

Offline grouty

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Re: BSA B50, Cheney, CCM Pre 75 Reference.
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2017, 10:07:09 AM »
Hmmm ... one thing an old CCM is not ! They were built to be raced. They would be a royal PITA for trail riding.
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Offline matcho mick

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Re: BSA B50, Cheney, CCM Pre 75 Reference.
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2017, 10:31:12 AM »
ha,remember Levo's CCM on  250 rego (SL125  ::)),think Paul last raced it at Jilliby when Michael Coombes on the monty was out here,(bitd) :P
work,the curse of the racing class!!
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Offline Momus

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Re: BSA B50, Cheney, CCM Pre 75 Reference.
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2017, 12:48:34 AM »
It's worth asking Mark, just in case he has one in stock. If you are going to fire an email off, do it today as they are both off for a couple of weeks sun catching .....

Grouty, received the following from PES:

"With regards to the 73 frame, our are slightly different to Grouty’s due to strength issues. C500 is the part number and costs £2500.00 UKP and a picture can be found on our website.

With regards to frames, we do not take orders or deposits because some people get upset if dates are missed, but if someone expresses an interest we will make it as soon as we can and if they still want it, it is theirs."

I have some '73 Cheney dimensions now so will have a look at that.





« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 02:42:51 AM by Momus »

Offline grouty

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Re: BSA B50, Cheney, CCM Pre 75 Reference.
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2017, 08:50:43 AM »
If you are planning on building your own frame Marcus, make sure you show us with pictures ..... lots of them.

Have you looked at Faber Frames ? Local-ish to me and they are very very nice. Not CCM or Cheney, but still good.

http://www.faberframes.com/
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Offline Momus

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Re: BSA B50, Cheney, CCM Pre 75 Reference.
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2017, 05:13:03 AM »
If you are planning on building your own frame Marcus, make sure you show us with pictures ..... lots of them.

Have you looked at Faber Frames ? Local-ish to me and they are very very nice. Not CCM or Cheney, but still good.

http://www.faberframes.com/

Thanks for that. I spoke to Howard and Miles about their frames a few weeks ago and agree they are well made and with the right provenance. Not wanting to be critical of any of the blokes, but build and delivery time from the UK is an issue. I have the bender tools and other gear so will give DIY go.   Pictures will  start with a shots of a few lengths of steel tube, a headstock tube on my fixture and a set of cases.

I have picked up another B50 engine for core parts so will be able to keep the existing matching numbers bike I have intact. Despite the rear frame stays having been butchered it is in better knick than I thought.