Author Topic: Pre-75 MX 250?  (Read 4234 times)

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Offline Tahitian_Red

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Pre-75 MX 250?
« on: December 14, 2016, 11:40:38 AM »
I know these questions are subjective, but I just want some feedback. 

I have been thinning the herd recently and it will continue, but I do plan to always have at least one pre-75 250 motocross bike.  Here in the U.S. we are permitted to run some 1975 bikes in our version of pre-75, with some rear suspension mods. Currently I still have a 1974 Ossa Phantom, a 1975 Bultaco Pursang 250 and a 1975 KTM 250MX.  The Pursang is race ready, but the other two will need to be some work to get out on the track.  Should I keep one of these three or sell them all and pick up another pre-75 model? 

There are just so many good pre-75 250 MXers to choose from.  ???
The "Factory Novice"
California, USA

'74 Suzuki TM100, '75 Bultaco 250 Pursang, '77 Honda XR75, '77 Suzuki RM125B, '77 Yamaha YZ400D, '79 Honda CR250RZ Moto-X Fox Replica, '83 Honda ME480RD Mugen

Offline Richo52

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2016, 11:55:14 AM »
Personally ,I would keep the OSSA Tahitian red !
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Offline 80-85 husky

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2016, 06:33:04 PM »
me too, luuuurve that phantom

Offline John Orchard

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2016, 06:59:00 PM »
I've always loved the look of the Phantom BUT the few I have ridden were horrible things that were hard to kick-start and had gearshift issues.

I don't know much of the other two, I did get smoked by a few Pursang's back in the day.  If you've ridden the Bulty and thought it was ok, I reckon stay with it.

You'd probably get a good dollar for the Ossa from anyone that hasn't ridden one  ;-)

Now if it was Phantom GPIII ...... that's a whole other story  ;-)
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Offline 80-85 husky

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2016, 10:10:46 PM »
ive never ridden one, they just looked so good....

Offline Husky500evo

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2016, 12:22:51 AM »
I know these questions are subjective, but I just want some feedback. 

I have been thinning the herd recently and it will continue, but I do plan to always have at least one pre-75 250 motocross bike.  Here in the U.S. we are permitted to run some 1975 bikes in our version of pre-75, with some rear suspension mods. Currently I still have a 1974 Ossa Phantom, a 1975 Bultaco Pursang 250 and a 1975 KTM 250MX.  The Pursang is race ready, but the other two will need to be some work to get out on the track.  Should I keep one of these three or sell them all and pick up another pre-75 model? 

There are just so many good pre-75 250 MXers to choose from.  ???

What about a Can Am TNT250 ? I thought you had a MX6 250 at some stage , Red , so you would have experienced the legendary power that the rotary disc Rotax motors put out ? I know that some guys say that the early Can Ams had dodgy handling and I have heard them referred to as " Can Ambulances " .  But after having a ride on a TNT250 recently , I thought it handled ok and the motor was just awesome .



« Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 12:30:28 AM by Husky500evo »

Offline Tahitian_Red

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2016, 03:26:53 AM »
Thanks for the input!

I love the Phantoms too, but they are like a Super-Model.  So beautiful to look at, but high maintenance.  I had three over the years and did race one for a short time.  I was just waiting for the transmission problems to show up and sold it when someone made me a nice offer for it.  The reason I held on to the last one is because I always dreamed of having all three of the Spanish beauties, but could not find a nice reasonably priced Montesa VR.

The '75 KTM was going to be my "Falta-nator".  Just wanted to race it as a little jab at all the CZ's that race around here.  ;)  It also has an affilliation with a bike brand that still exists.

The Model 135 Bultaco is a good race bike.  Not as exciting or rare as the Phantom, but very solid and lots of parts availability.  It is also ready to roll now.

I sold the Can-Am MX6 (Favorite racer ever!).  A '75 TNT is allowed in the pre-75 over here.  I love the way they look, but I have heard some negative things about the handling also.
The "Factory Novice"
California, USA

'74 Suzuki TM100, '75 Bultaco 250 Pursang, '77 Honda XR75, '77 Suzuki RM125B, '77 Yamaha YZ400D, '79 Honda CR250RZ Moto-X Fox Replica, '83 Honda ME480RD Mugen

Offline 80-85 husky

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2016, 06:48:14 AM »
chase up an swm with the rotax motor, eliglble for pre 75 (I think), they go harder than the std rotax (maybe pre 78 :-\)

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2016, 09:33:34 AM »
The first year for the Rotax engined SWMs was 1976 I believe

Offline Husky500evo

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2016, 11:02:09 AM »
http://forum.ozvmx.com/index.php?topic=31575.msg309342#msg309342

      I have a project that I am ashamed to say is still ongoing . I should have finished this years ago , but work and other commitments , lack of spare time and just being plain lazy , have prevented me from completing what should be the ultimate pre '75 250 MXer . The motor is rebuilt , frame is painted in 2 pack, custom alloy airbox has been made by GMC , and everything is ready to be bolted together .  I have some time off over the X-mas break , so I will see if I can get into it . 

Offline GMC

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2016, 01:30:08 PM »
Didn’t you drive down here and stand over me while I completed it because you were in a hurry finish it
 ;D ;D

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Offline KTM47

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2016, 02:32:54 PM »
No one has said it yet, but really the best 250 MX bike in 1974 was the Maico.  Even with restricted travel they are still the best.
MAICOS RULE DESPITE THE FOOLS

1999 KTM 200, 1976/77 KTM 400,1981 Maico 490

Offline Husky500evo

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2016, 04:30:41 PM »
Didn’t you drive down here and stand over me while I completed it because you were in a hurry finish it
 ;D ;D

Nah , wasn't this project Geoff . It was the Husky 510 exhaust that I stood and waited for . That project is still sitting collecting dust as well though  :-[ . Showed that you can definitely work well when you are under the pump though  ;D.

As for the Maico being the best pre'75 250 MX bike , I have to disagree ,  Kevin . I have owned a '73 and a '74.5 GP 250 Maico and they were both as slow as . The 4 speed transmission didn't help though . I think I have ridden faster 250 trials bikes than the pre '75 Maico 250s . Best handling frame with the slowest motor I think .
« Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 04:34:03 PM by Husky500evo »

Offline John Orchard

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2016, 05:06:28 PM »
No one thinks much of a CR250M ?  Didn't they set the world on fire back in the day?
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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2016, 06:27:21 PM »
Bultaco all the way. Plenty of parts available and you can get them moving with reliability very  easily!!!

Offline Nebo

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2016, 10:22:12 PM »
   
   What bike cleaned up in the Pre 75 250 Vintage Titles in Queensland this year. A 1974 1/2 GP MAICO.  Rider Steven Bowen.  Yes the  bike is not stock. Yes the rider is a Young A Grader.

   This Bike has won 3 Championship Events. Never Had a DNF.

    Plus and Ninus of other Bikes.  KTM No reason  not a winner with a good rider.  Ossa. Fast but weak Bottom end and Gear box. CANAM.Fast. But 125 power band. Did not Handle.

    Montesa. Fast and reliable but oversteer  issues . Bultaco Like KTM. Husky 250 should be good but derail chains and  most bikes I have seen the the owner has no idea of suspension set up.  This by the way is true with more than half of bike owners.

     As the Honda CR250  was a good bike. Johnny O Should now that   these bikes were made with a use by date Like early Asian Cars. About 1 year. There are many out there

 
  still but have gearbox and electrical problems.Frame Must be Cut to make them Handle, Few are Riden . Unlike CZ and Jawa that will last for ever.     

Offline Lozza

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2016, 10:42:39 PM »





What about a Can Am TNT250 ? I thought you had a MX6 250 at some stage , Red , so you would have experienced the legendary power that the rotary disc Rotax motors put out ?

Amen to that :D
Jesus only loves two strokes

Offline KTM47

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2016, 11:15:35 AM »
Yes the 74 Maicos are great bikes.  I had one in 74, I got mine early March 74.  The 74.5 thing is a US term because Maico dealers in the US hadn't sold all their 73 stock, so the bikes were delayed until mid year. 

So they are a 74 model.
MAICOS RULE DESPITE THE FOOLS

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Offline Husky500evo

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2016, 01:37:00 PM »
Yes the 74 Maicos are great bikes.  I had one in 74, I got mine early March 74.  The 74.5 thing is a US term because Maico dealers in the US hadn't sold all their 73 stock, so the bikes were delayed until mid year. 

So they are a 74 model.
Yeah , well I had a '74 MC400 and still have a '74 MC440 . The '74 MC250 that I owned , had differences to both my other '74s , in that it had an aluminium rear hub and the top shock mount plate had extra holes in it from the factory . The '74 models like my 250 were called GPs or '74.5s by the Americans . Still think that the 4 speed 250 Maicos were a slow motor though . 
« Last Edit: December 16, 2016, 01:38:55 PM by Husky500evo »

Offline yamaico

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2016, 03:52:25 PM »
Didn’t you drive down here and stand over me while I completed it because you were in a hurry finish it
 ;D ;D

As for the Maico being the best pre'75 250 MX bike , I have to disagree ,  Kevin . I have owned a '73 and a '74.5 GP 250 Maico and they were both as slow as . The 4 speed transmission didn't help though . I think I have ridden faster 250 trials bikes than the pre '75 Maico 250s . Best handling frame with the slowest motor I think .


...very easy to get more power out of them though.

Offline Tahitian_Red

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2016, 10:01:55 AM »
Well it is now judgement day. 

It is like being a teenager again and having three girlfriends that go to different schools.  You know they will soon find out about each other, so which two do you break up with in order to keep at least one relationship going?  :D

Keep the faithful one with the great sense of humor and let the needy one with the sexy body and the one with the brains and a rich family go?
The "Factory Novice"
California, USA

'74 Suzuki TM100, '75 Bultaco 250 Pursang, '77 Honda XR75, '77 Suzuki RM125B, '77 Yamaha YZ400D, '79 Honda CR250RZ Moto-X Fox Replica, '83 Honda ME480RD Mugen

Offline 80-85 husky

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2016, 11:32:01 AM »
the one with the big t*ts you idiot  ;D ;D

Offline ty4

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2016, 11:07:38 PM »
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D huskys advice for the win

Offline Tahitian_Red

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2016, 05:56:57 AM »
the one with the big t*ts you idiot  ;D ;D

Bingo!  :)
The "Factory Novice"
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'74 Suzuki TM100, '75 Bultaco 250 Pursang, '77 Honda XR75, '77 Suzuki RM125B, '77 Yamaha YZ400D, '79 Honda CR250RZ Moto-X Fox Replica, '83 Honda ME480RD Mugen

Offline Slakewell

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2016, 05:20:51 PM »
This is my opinion on the bikes I have ridden/raced.
1) Lewis Bros KTM 74.5 GP 250 has won 3 Aus titles plus KTM won the world champs that year so its my pick.
2) VR Montesa light and fast but needs allot of input on the corners.
3) RH Suzuki blinding faster than anything else and light as but lacks brakes and usability.Moves around under power and wears you out fast , lights up fighting for traction.
4) YZ Yamaha , lighter than air and a great motor and has brakes to match. All the weight is rear ward and it turns like a plow if the forks dont flex first.
5) Maico MC 250 , slowest bike but you dont have to slow down much on it so it evens out.
Current bikes. KTM MC 250 77 Husky CR 360 77, Husky 82 420 Auto Bitsa XR 200 project.
Kawasaki A4 125 78 for sale

Offline Husky500evo

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2016, 10:54:46 PM »


Here is a picture of some Swedish guy called Bengt , standing behind a TNT250 . I dunno about the seat cover , but this would probably be my choice of pre '75 250 MX bikes ( without having to build weird hybrids  ;) ) . I mainly like them because of the amazing motor , which I think would smoke pretty much anything else in the class with both bottom end and overall power . With a decent pair of shocks and the forks sorted , the bike would probably handle ok as well ( better than their reputation anyway ). They also have a nifty setup , where you can adjust the steering head angle . Gary Jones won the '74 AMA 250 title on a Can Am , so I would think that some of his input would have made it to the later production bikes .   
« Last Edit: December 26, 2016, 11:12:34 PM by Husky500evo »

Offline Ted

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2017, 03:49:31 PM »
   
   What bike cleaned up in the Pre 75 250 Vintage Titles in Queensland this year. A 1974 1/2 GP MAICO.  Rider Steven Bowen.  Yes the  bike is not stock. Yes the rider is a Young A Grader.

   This Bike has won 3 Championship Events. Never Had a DNF.

    Plus and Ninus of other Bikes.  KTM No reason  not a winner with a good rider.  Ossa. Fast but weak Bottom end and Gear box. CANAM.Fast. But 125 power band. Did not Handle.

    Montesa. Fast and reliable but oversteer  issues . Bultaco Like KTM. Husky 250 should be good but derail chains and  most bikes I have seen the the owner has no idea of suspension set up.  This by the way is true with more than half of bike owners.

     As the Honda CR250  was a good bike. Johnny O Should now that   these bikes were made with a use by date Like early Asian Cars. About 1 year. There are many out there

 
  still but have gearbox and electrical problems.Frame Must be Cut to make them Handle, Few are Riden . Unlike CZ and Jawa that will last for ever.     

Well get him to bring it to Mountain Man at Toowoomba in two weeks time and be prepared to be lapped by a 73 YZ
81 YZ 465 H    83 KX 500 A-1   77 RM 125 B   86 IT 200 S

Offline scottm

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2017, 07:03:37 AM »
You'll have no problems bring it to Mountain Man then.
Its not a freeway its a mx track , pre75 all powers state of origin pre 75 Conondale Classic pre 75 all powers In the last Mountain Man - 73 YZ 250
pre 84 thank you very much

Offline Nebo

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2017, 06:47:07 PM »
   To  Scott and Ted .  What placings did this YZ 250 get at the 2016 OZ Titles ?.

    Who,s riding the bike.    Daniel  Reardon.
   
     Must have done a lot of work to the Forks .  Standard they flex and will not turn.

     Only way to fix them is thicker internal wall fork tubes and billet triple clamps.

      I have seen it done . A expensive Fix.

Offline Ted

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2017, 07:40:56 PM »
Don't waste our time at cheater bike MA titles. Dont waste our time on flat paddock tracks either. Jack Paterson is riding it. Bring the Maygo and we'll see if you are still of the same opinion of it
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Offline sleepy

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2017, 11:01:08 PM »
   To  Scott and Ted .  What placings did this YZ 250 get at the 2016 OZ Titles ?.

    Who,s riding the bike.    Daniel  Reardon.
   
     Must have done a lot of work to the Forks .  Standard they flex and will not turn.

     Only way to fix them is thicker internal wall fork tubes and billet triple clamps.

      I have seen it done . A expensive Fix.

I'm with you on the 74 Maico. I raced one in 1975 as a 16 year old C grader after leaving juniors. I have fond memories of holeshoting my open class races at Tivoli against all manor of bigger capacity bikes on a bog stock 250 Maico.
In the A&B grade races the year before if my memory serves me correctly the first 6 places were all on Maicos.
The Maico engines don't have the sudden power of the Jap engines but it did suit the 1974 style tracks that we rode on back then.

As for riding at Echo valley, I wouldn't even if my back would let me because I have had to repair and straighten several bikes the rode last year after trying to deal with the ruts and supercross style jumps. I raced in 1974 when you could buy parts and it makes no sense to me why the majority of pre75 owners put up with riding on tracks made for modern bike that clearly end up destroying the precious 43 year old bikes not to mention their bodies that in most cases are well past their prime. 

Offline Nebo

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2017, 05:58:24 PM »
    Ted must have had some bad times with the MA ELIGIBILITY people at some time.

     To imply that they let Non complying bikes run is a very strong comment.

     

     Sure they miss two or three at events . But the ones they miss never get any major placings .

      Yes i now of Jack Paterson .Good young rider. Hope he does not break the head stem of bike .

     As Sleepy Quoted. Toowoomba Track is not suitable for pre 75 bikes.

     In fact  even Pre 78 is boarder line.

     


Offline Ted

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2017, 07:12:59 PM »
You are not very well informed Nebo.

I have not had one bad time regarding MA eligibility. In fact i am the only one cleared by MA to run a genuine Suzuki Optional Alloy Swingarm on my RM 125 B.

Not only am i implying that they allow illegal bikes to ride i have seen it first hand. Along with comments from the scrutineer " You know that bike is illegal and if someone protests i will have to disqualify you "

As far as the ones they miss never come anywhere. Well you obviously weren't at Port Augusta 2013

No worries about the head stem. He will land on the down ramps

If Echo Valley is border line for Pre 78 bikes how do you explain Matty Dank winning the Evo class at the 2014 Nats at Echo Valley on a 1977 RM 125 B

This 250 YZ won its class ( all powers ) easily at the last Mountain Man at Echo Valley. It also won its class  ( all powers ) easily at State of Origin Port Macquarie. Check the lap times. Faster than most Pre 90/95's. Also easily won its class at last years Conondale  Classic. All National level MX tracks

Like i said before, turn up with a Maygo, put Reardon on it and we'll see how it goes








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Offline Ted

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2017, 03:41:12 PM »
The results are in for Pre 75/78 race at Mountain Man. 1973 YZ 250 three wins from three motos. Lapping every Pre 78 in the process. Second place went to a 1974 YZ 125 with three second places. This bike also lapped every Pre 78 bike. Not too shabby for a track supposedly not suitable for Pre 75. Both of these bikes were built by John Tate
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Offline mick25

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2017, 04:30:24 PM »
You forgot a bit out ted Built buy kiwi talent  ;D

Offline Ted

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2017, 04:39:43 PM »
You are without doubt talented Micky but Tate got lucky haha
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Offline amj 56

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2017, 06:30:09 PM »
Ted
PM sent

Offline Ted

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2017, 06:44:30 PM »
No PM there
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Offline Oldfart

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2017, 06:47:35 PM »
   Quote "As for riding at Echo valley, I wouldn't even if my back would let me because I have had to repair and straighten several bikes the rode last year after trying to deal with the ruts and supercross style jumps. I raced in 1974 when you could buy parts and it makes no sense to me why the majority of pre75 owners put up with riding on tracks made for modern bike that clearly end up destroying the precious 43 year old bikes not to mention their bodies that in most cases are well past their prime. 

Sorry But I have to agree with the above

Offline sleepy

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2017, 08:24:20 PM »
The results are in for Pre 75/78 race at Mountain Man. 1973 YZ 250 three wins from three motos. Lapping every Pre 78 in the process. Second place went to a 1974 YZ 125 with three second places. This bike also lapped every Pre 78 bike. Not too shabby for a track supposedly not suitable for Pre 75. Both of these bikes were built by John Tate

You and your friends must be really proud of that achievement, 2 young hired guns beating the only other rider in the class. Pre 78 had 4 or 5 riders and only 2 showed for the last race.
The question would be why so few riders in all the old classes, The term "Once bitten twice shy" comes to mind.

Offline Ted

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2017, 08:53:16 PM »
Yep I'm proud. You bet. We'll race anybody. Seem to recall racing your hired young gun at Conondale in 2015. Also recall beating him as well. If you blokes don't front the line it isn't our fault either. You could put any pro on a vintage bike and we will race them. In fact George we are racing the pros on their moderns tomorrow on a 25 year old bike. Are we complaining? No. The problem isn't the track. The problem is the blokes that ride them
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Offline amj 56

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2017, 09:45:08 PM »
Ted I emailed you, cheers.
Allan

Offline sleepy

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Re: Pre-75 MX 250?
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2017, 10:39:14 PM »
Yep I'm proud. You bet. We'll race anybody. Seem to recall racing your hired young gun at Conondale in 2015. Also recall beating him as well. If you blokes don't front the line it isn't our fault either. You could put any pro on a vintage bike and we will race them. In fact George we are racing the pros on their moderns tomorrow on a 25 year old bike. Are we complaining? No. The problem isn't the track. The problem is the blokes that ride them

Don't know what you are talking about as I have never let anyone ride any of my personal bikes at Conondale nor would I let my bikes be ridden there since the track and the meeting has been turned into something for pros on moderns(pre95 to you). Can't be called classic anymore.

Great to see 25 year old bikes riding with moderns as that is where they belong.

Still can't believe that you think that bragging about 2 great young riders getting first and second in a race with 3 can do anything but harm our sport.

As this post is about which pre75 is the best I vote for Mk7 Bultaco or a nice Maico or even something with a XL250 motor in it.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 01:37:53 PM by sleepy »